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Grievance About Hints


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I have recently seen a rather disturbing trend in hints. Rather than helping one actually find a troublesome cache, they are like puzzles.

 

The hint "In the third tree from the left," will narrow down the search considerably. The hint "Magnetic," will narrow it down, too. Even, "It looks like it belongs there, but is just there," gives me an idea as to the type of hide.

 

However, I've recently seen one hint that says: "Not my typical hide." That's nice, except, I've never looked for or found one of your caches and have no clue what your "typical hide" might be.

 

And, one was: "This is a <name of local cacher> type hide." That's fine, except, I've never heard of that cacher and have no idea what his/her hides are like.

 

Another was "Have you scene it?" ... It turns out that "Scene" is the name of a local newspaper and once you know that, you would think to look at a nearby newspaper machine. ... Well and good for a local, but useless to a visitor.

 

Of course, there are any number of hints which are lyrics from songs. All you need to do is figure out the song or album. (These frequently refer to either bridges or trees.) If you don't know the song or album, and don't have internet access while out hunting, you may as well not have the hint.

 

And, what's the idea with hints that say "You don't need a hint"? If I don't need a hint, then don't give one.

 

If you are going to give a hint, make it useful or helpful and don't assume I know the local cachers or local jargon. Thanks.

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I have recently seen a rather disturbing trend in hints. Rather than helping one actually find a troublesome cache, they are like puzzles.

 

The hint "In the third tree from the left," will narrow down the search considerably. The hint "Magnetic," will narrow it down, too. Even, "It looks like it belongs there, but is just there," gives me an idea as to the type of hide.

 

However, I've recently seen one hint that says: "Not my typical hide." That's nice, except, I've never looked for or found one of your caches and have no clue what your "typical hide" might be.

 

And, one was: "This is a <name of local cacher> type hide." That's fine, except, I've never heard of that cacher and have no idea what his/her hides are like.

 

Another was "Have you scene it?" ... It turns out that "Scene" is the name of a local newspaper and once you know that, you would think to look at a nearby newspaper machine. ... Well and good for a local, but useless to a visitor.

 

Of course, there are any number of hints which are lyrics from songs. All you need to do is figure out the song or album. (These frequently refer to either bridges or trees.) If you don't know the song or album, and don't have internet access while out hunting, you may as well not have the hint.

 

And, what's the idea with hints that say "You don't need a hint"? If I don't need a hint, then don't give one.

 

If you are going to give a hint, make it useful or helpful and don't assume I know the local cachers or local jargon. Thanks.

 

I'm pretty sure I know where this thread is headed. :unsure:

 

I'll take the bait.

 

#1. A hint is not required.

 

#2. Hiders get to decide how much of a hint to give since it is their cache listing.

 

#3. As of now, there really aren't any hard and fast rules about hints (besides being short enough to be decrypted while caching). There is no rule that says 90% of cachers should be able to understand it.

 

#4. Some hiders don't want to make the hide too easy. So, the hint may indeed be riddle of some sort.

 

#5. If the hint doesn't help, ignore it and continue on your way. Pretend there wasn't a hint!

 

#6. You could always contact the cache owner if you really need/want a hint.

 

And when all else fails...

 

#7. You can ignore the cache. No one says you HAVE to find them all. ;)

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And, what's the idea with hints that say "You don't need a hint"? If I don't need a hint, then don't give one.

When I review caches I try to be aware of what the hints are and give suggestions. In cases where they say they don't need one, I use this template:

 

Thanks for hiding a cache! I have a suggestion about your hint. There's nothing more frustrating than getting to the cache site and not being able to find it. So you take the time to decrypt the hint only to be told "you don't need one".

 

I'd suggest leaving it blank. If you don't have one to give, just leave the hint field empty rather than put one in there that won't help at all.

 

Let me know if you have any questions!

 

Quiggle

Geocaching.com Volunteer Cache Reviewer

My profile page: http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?u=Quiggle

 

NOTE: If you have any questions, do not reply to this email. Click on the link above to go to my profile page and you can then send me an email regarding the cache. Please include a link to the cache in question so I will know which cache it is regarding.

I then publish the cache, because there's nothing in the guidelines about useless hints. Hopefully they change it, but I don't go back to look. I've done my part, much like a note in your log about the hint not being any help. It's up to the hider to change it on their own.

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I have recently seen a rather disturbing trend in hints. Rather than helping one actually find a troublesome cache, they are like puzzles.

 

The hint "In the third tree from the left," will narrow down the search considerably. The hint "Magnetic," will narrow it down, too. Even, "It looks like it belongs there, but is just there," gives me an idea as to the type of hide.

 

However, I've recently seen one hint that says: "Not my typical hide." That's nice, except, I've never looked for or found one of your caches and have no clue what your "typical hide" might be.

 

And, one was: "This is a <name of local cacher> type hide." That's fine, except, I've never heard of that cacher and have no idea what his/her hides are like.

 

Another was "Have you scene it?" ... It turns out that "Scene" is the name of a local newspaper and once you know that, you would think to look at a nearby newspaper machine. ... Well and good for a local, but useless to a visitor.

 

Of course, there are any number of hints which are lyrics from songs. All you need to do is figure out the song or album. (These frequently refer to either bridges or trees.) If you don't know the song or album, and don't have internet access while out hunting, you may as well not have the hint.

 

And, what's the idea with hints that say "You don't need a hint"? If I don't need a hint, then don't give one.

 

If you are going to give a hint, make it useful or helpful and don't assume I know the local cachers or local jargon. Thanks.

 

I'm pretty sure I know where this thread is headed. ;)

 

I'll take the bait.

 

#1. A hint is not required.

 

#2. Hiders get to decide how much of a hint to give since it is their cache listing.

 

#3. As of now, there really aren't any hard and fast rules about hints (besides being short enough to be decrypted while caching). There is no rule that says 90% of cachers should be able to understand it.

 

#4. Some hiders don't want to make the hide too easy. So, the hint may indeed be riddle of some sort.

 

#5. If the hint doesn't help, ignore it and continue on your way. Pretend there wasn't a hint!

 

#6. You could always contact the cache owner if you really need/want a hint.

 

And when all else fails...

 

#7. You can ignore the cache. No one says you HAVE to find them all. :)

 

As stated later in the thread by Quiggle, many reviewers have been looking at hints, and making suggestions. Especially for the universally hated "no hints needed" hint. Ever pull out a PDA at a cache site, and decrypt that? Actually, neither have I, but I can imagine what it's like. :unsure: I dont' know what "bait" you were taking, but I think your post is kind of snarky, to be honest.

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Good points, though several of them can be summarized as, Hints that require local knowledge are not helpful.

 

And the whole thing can be summarized as, Don't pretend you're going to be helpful if you aren't.

 

On a side note, I've taken to removing all spaces from my hints. I do this so that those who are fluent in ROT-13 don't accidentally spoil it for themselves.

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Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I'm quite certain there's a response by myself in there asking what's up with the no hints needed hint? :huh:

 

From Quiggle's post, and a recent reviewer started thread in the Canadian forum, it appears this is an angsty issue reviewers have been making "suggestions" on, to go along with Travel Bug prison's. I don't know if these suggestions are universal though.

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The cache submission page tells you to leave it blank if you don't have a hint. Obviously a lot of people ignore it, because I've seen a lot of "No hint needed" or "Too Easy For a Hint" . Hey Bozo, if I'm sitting there decrypting the hint obviously I need it.

 

What also gets me are the ones that tell you what trail to take or where to catch the trailhead. If I am at the cache site decrypting the hint, I already know that stuff.

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Although "No hint required" is useless most of the time, it actually is a hint. It tells you that the hide should be something typical. It tells you not to look for something difficult like a micro disguised as a pinecone in a pine tree. Just look for the typical pile of sticks, etc.

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The cache submission page tells you to leave it blank if you don't have a hint. Obviously a lot of people ignore it, because I've seen a lot of "No hint needed" or "Too Easy For a Hint" . Hey Bozo, if I'm sitting there decrypting the hint obviously I need it.

 

 

This is absolutely true, that the cache submission page says that, and it was brought up in the thread in the Canadian forum. There's a cache within 30 miles of my home coords that has a "too easy for hints" hint, and it has DNF's by multiple cachers with over 10,000 finds combined (myself included). Sorry, had to rant. :grin:

 

I don't want to post again, but thanks to Quiggle for the response on the reviewer suggestions.

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Although "No hint required" is useless most of the time, it actually is a hint. It tells you that the hide should be something typical. It tells you not to look for something difficult like a micro disguised as a pinecone in a pine tree. Just look for the typical pile of sticks, etc.

Hints are helpful for new cachers who haven't found a certain type of hide yet. If you could find it because it was a typical hide, why would you decrypt the hint? :huh:

 

edit: Not trying to sway anyone one way or another, just trying to show a side of the fence I've seen in almost 3 years of reviewing caches. I'll get out of the way now! :grin:

Edited by Quiggle
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Okay, kind of a funny story about this. Awhile back, I tried for a cache out of state and the hint for the first stage was "Tazclimber hide". Well, I didn't realize that Tazclimber was a local cacher and thought I was looking for a hide on some plant called a tazclimber (in my defense, there were lots of vines where I zeroed out). Come to find out later that a "Tazclimber hide" means under a rock. Needless to say I didn't find the stage or the cache. :grin:

Edited by mertat
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Although "No hint required" is useless most of the time, it actually is a hint. It tells you that the hide should be something typical. It tells you not to look for something difficult like a micro disguised as a pinecone in a pine tree. Just look for the typical pile of sticks, etc.

Hints are helpful for new cachers who haven't found a certain type of hide yet. If you could find it because it was a typical hide, why would you decrypt the hint? :(

 

edit: Not trying to sway anyone one way or another, just trying to show a side of the fence I've seen in almost 3 years of reviewing caches. I'll get out of the way now! :grin:

 

Sometimes even experienced cachers can overthink a hide and make it more challenging then it is. I was really only trying to point out the irony that sometimes saying "too easy for a hint" is a hint in itself. :huh:

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Although "No hint required" is useless most of the time, it actually is a hint. It tells you that the hide should be something typical. It tells you not to look for something difficult like a micro disguised as a pinecone in a pine tree. Just look for the typical pile of sticks, etc.

Hints are helpful for new cachers who haven't found a certain type of hide yet. If you could find it because it was a typical hide, why would you decrypt the hint? :(

 

edit: Not trying to sway anyone one way or another, just trying to show a side of the fence I've seen in almost 3 years of reviewing caches. I'll get out of the way now! :huh:

 

Sometimes even experienced cachers can overthink a hide and make it more challenging then it is. I was really only trying to point out the irony that sometimes saying "too easy for a hint" is a hint in itself. :grin:

 

I agree. More often than not, the "no hint needed" has helped me out. :D

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Although "No hint required" is useless most of the time, it actually is a hint. It tells you that the hide should be something typical. It tells you not to look for something difficult like a micro disguised as a pinecone in a pine tree. Just look for the typical pile of sticks, etc.

Hints are helpful for new cachers who haven't found a certain type of hide yet. If you could find it because it was a typical hide, why would you decrypt the hint? :D

 

edit: Not trying to sway anyone one way or another, just trying to show a side of the fence I've seen in almost 3 years of reviewing caches. I'll get out of the way now! :(

 

Sometimes even experienced cachers can overthink a hide and make it more challenging then it is. I was really only trying to point out the irony that sometimes saying "too easy for a hint" is a hint in itself. :grin:

 

I agree. More often than not, the "no hint needed" has helped me out. :huh:

 

Very interesting guys, I never thought of that. But wouldn't you know, I can't think of any examples I've seen myself where it applies. All I can think of is the "too easy for hints" cache relatively near me that has multple DNF's. :D

 

Next time I run into a no hint hint, I'll have to check that out. But the fact is the cache submission form still says the following, most notably the last sentence.

 

Hints/Spoiler Info

Enter any hints or spoiler information below. This information will be encrypted on the site until a geocacher clicks on a link to unencrypt it, or decodes it on the trail. Text within brackets [like this] will not be encrypted. Please keep your hints short, so decoding it on the trail is easier. If you don't have a hint, leave it blank.

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Although "No hint required" is useless most of the time, it actually is a hint. It tells you that the hide should be something typical. It tells you not to look for something difficult like a micro disguised as a pinecone in a pine tree. Just look for the typical pile of sticks, etc.

 

The difficulty level is what would tell me that.

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Although "No hint required" is useless most of the time, it actually is a hint. It tells you that the hide should be something typical. It tells you not to look for something difficult like a micro disguised as a pinecone in a pine tree. Just look for the typical pile of sticks, etc.

 

The difficulty level is what would tell me that.

I have at times decrypted a hint to see "no hint needed" and that made look again for something hidden in a typical place; and I found the cache. I suspect that if I got to the point that I needed a hint and there was none, I would just DNF the cache even it was 1/1. "No hint needed" might not give any more information than the difficulty level but the fact that it was there to remind me that sometimes when we look, even for a 1/1 cache, we make things more difficult than they are, has helped me to find a cache I might have otherwise given up on.

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I get very annoyed at "stupid" or "bad" hints. One time the hint said POTS. I can't find any stupid pots. I'm stomping about, fuming, composing in my head my dnf log and what I will say about lazy cache owners who won't update their stupid hints. I turn around fast and almost crack my head open physically hitting it: a stop sign. I have never felt more stupid than at that moment.

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Grrr... bad hints. Nothing like sitting around for an hour while your 9 year old decrypts the "too easy - you don't need a hint" hint.

 

But this thread reminded me of the hint to my first lamp post skirt find. I never knew those things lifted up and was very new to caching (hadn't visited the forums at that point).

 

The hint: "We'll keep the light on. We are just undercover."

 

Now THAT was a great hint for a rookie cacher!

 

... but I guess that belongs in a Good Hints thread. :grin:

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Actually, neither have I, but I can imagine what it's like. :grin: I dont' know what "bait" you were taking, but I think your post is kind of snarky, to be honest.

 

It probably was a little...and I'm Ok with that but my points still stand.

 

I look at hints sort of with a "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" mentality.

 

To me an unhelpful hint is the same as no hint. And since hints are not required, what can I really do? Should I be upset over something trivial or find the cache?

 

I think in most cases, even hiders that write "no hint needed" aren't being jerks...they probably think they are being helpful.

 

In the woods looking for a cache, deciphering a hint, getting frustrated, things may seem a little different on the other side.

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...And, what's the idea with hints that say "You don't need a hint"? If I don't need a hint, then don't give one....

I agree with this one. The rest were all hints. they were just not immediatly useful to you. That can be annoying but they are hints.

I couldn't have said it better.

 

I'll add these:

Hints are meant to nudge.

 

You are not entitled to a smiley just because you came out to the location.

 

You are entitled to have fun but you need to remember the cache owner may have set up the cache to create the challenge you're finding so difficult.

 

You may just simply be over thinking the hide.

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Although "No hint required" is useless most of the time, it actually is a hint. It tells you that the hide should be something typical. It tells you not to look for something difficult like a micro disguised as a pinecone in a pine tree. Just look for the typical pile of sticks, etc.

That information should already be reflected in the cache difficulty rating.

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I think in most cases, even hiders that write "no hint needed" aren't being jerks...they probably think they are being helpful.

 

What about those cache owners who do this on almost every cache they own? Especially when they occasionally encrypt stuff like "Ha! Ha! To easy!", "Cheater", "I don't feel like giving you a hint", or "Nope you dope" in place of their regular "no hint needed".

 

I don't mind an obscure hint or even leaving it blank. Just don't use the space to taunt or leave useless information, like parking or trailhead coords.

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I'll add these:

Hints are meant to nudge.

 

You are not entitled to a smiley just because you came out to the location.

 

You are entitled to have fun but you need to remember the cache owner may have set up the cache to create the challenge you're finding so difficult.

 

I'd second this comment. When I construct a hint, I usually make it a little bit cryptic - a bit of a riddle that should put you onto the cache, but at the same time won't just blatantly tell you "its over there, dude". My hope is that my hints actually add to the fun, by extending the challenge, but also gently guiding you in the right direction. I want you to find my hide, but I want you to have the fun of a challenge while doing so.

 

I also have to agree that the "you don't need a hint" approach can be quite off-setting. I had seen such a hint when I was first caching, and decided to use it myself on an early cache I placed. However, after I had come across a great number of caches using that hint, and having felt the frustration first hand, I took a similar hint out of my own cache description, vowing not to use such a hint again. I don't want to add to a feeling of frustration if someone is already finding it hard to locate my cache.

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Sometimes, the hint could help you confirm that you're actually looking for a cache that's no longer there.

 

I spent a couple hours looking for one where GZ was in the middle of a flat field, an equal distance between a tree-lined swamp and an outfield fence for a ball diamond. I checked the fence, but there simply wasn't any place to hide a tobacco container. Next I worked the trees and rocks at the edge of the swamp...nope.

Then I scoured the field...2' long dead grass lying flat in the spring. Found 6 softballs and 2 baseballs, but no cache.

 

After digging out some previous logs, everyone was eluding to the fact that they should have been looking up, or that they were looking too low. It turns out that the tobacco can had been bunjee'd to a pole on the back of a sign fastened to the outfield fence. There's no place to hide a 'baccy can on the back of the sign; it would have been right there in plain sight, so the hint that said simply "Nope" was likely fine, if the cache had actually been there.

Having a hint that meant at least something would have allowed me to see that the cache had been muggled, so I could mark it as such and move on. Rather than wasting all that time, and not being able to do anymore caching before I had to head home.

 

Please save the flames, because no, searching for a cache is not 'a waste of time'...that's not what I mean.

And yes, I understand that the hunt is a very important part of caching...but when GZ is about 20m from the actual location, with excellent reception, no matter which direction you come at it, and you've looked everywhere it 'should' be, twice or three times.....it would have been nice to have a hint that said...something.

 

I emailed the cache owner a picture of each sign-supporting post, each empty. The cache was archived the next day.

 

I'm not dissing the cacher for having a hint of "Nope", either...because I'm sure that when he bunjee'd the tobacco can to the post, in plain sight, a hint like that would have made sense. Of course you don't need a hint...it's right there, after all...

 

Anyway, I still thank him and everyone else that hides, because if they didn't, I'd have nothing to go look for.

 

Hopefully somebody understands what I'm trying to say....

 

<><

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If I'm in the woods under heavy tree cover with the GPSr signal bouncing around like a drunk cowboy, the last thing I want to see is "too easy". Not when I look around and see 40 or so otherwise "easy" hiding spots. I guess I just start poking around under things till I find a cache or a snake?

 

I have often experience a lesser degree of irritation when looking for a cache that is "next to the rock that looks like X". Always in a boulder field and usually next to five other boulders that also look like X. My favorite being "boulder that looks like a table". Ever notice how many boulders are flat and table-like? Or as often, after finding and looking at the boulder that "looks like Jimmy Carter with a duck on his nose" and only being able to imagine a firetruck with wings.*

 

*I exaggerate.

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The cache submission page tells you to leave it blank if you don't have a hint. Obviously a lot of people ignore it, because I've seen a lot of "No hint needed" or "Too Easy For a Hint" . Hey Bozo, if I'm sitting there decrypting the hint obviously I need it.

Unfortunately, it's a mistake to assume that people read instructions, even when (as in this case) the instructions are the sentence immediately before the text box. There is probably no solution to this problem other than putting caching in the hands of some race other than humans.

 

What also gets me are the ones that tell you what trail to take or where to catch the trailhead. If I am at the cache site decrypting the hint, I already know that stuff.

This seems to be at its worst on very old caches. I'm new to the game, but I suspect that in the Early Days, the concept of only decoding the hint at the cache site was not well established.

 

I do have one cache with a routing hint, but the [unencrypted] part of the hint says "routing hint, decrypt in advance". The FTF chose not to read the hint and did a serious bushwhack through chaparral in shorts. He came out via the road.

 

Edward

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This seems to be at its worst on very old caches. I'm new to the game, but I suspect that in the Early Days, the concept of only decoding the hint at the cache site was not well established.

 

Nah, its been pretty much the norm since day one.

 

I do have one cache with a routing hint, but the [unencrypted] part of the hint says "routing hint, decrypt in advance". The FTF chose not to read the hint and did a serious bushwhack through chaparral in shorts. He came out via the road.

 

I have no problem with that. I sometimes put suggested parking in the hint but I label it [parking].

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Treat as you would like to be treated! I try to find a cache without the hint at first, using previous finds experience, if I have to resort to the clue its because I have to, so I would like to find the cache. Its frustrating to have to walk away especially if you are only in the area for the day. Remember that a cache find is only easy if you find it quickly, if for whatever reason you can't locate it then either having an unhelpful clue or no clue at all doesn't help its just plain annoying. We all just want to have fun is that so bad? Better that cachers walk away feeling good rather than bad tempered and frustrated (there's enough of that in life generally) Happy Caching !!!!!

:rolleyes:<_<:P:D<_<<_<<_<;):mad:;):P

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I always give very specific hints. Whether a cacher chooses to use them immediately or save them in case they're stumped, I want them to find my caches, that's why I put them out there.

 

The hints on stages and finals of my active caches, in no particular order:

Very typical hide. Think pile of sticks.

Enter, and leave no stone unturned.

Stand inside four sycamores. Middle of upstream V.

Block in sand, left chamber, upper left corner.

Under the quagmire. Approach from south

base of rock face, large pile of rocks

under rocks

Around back, left side of pole base, under a brick.

 

Brief, but useful, that's how I like my hints. Of course, as has been said hints are optional to begin with, so ya get what ya get.

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And, what's the idea with hints that say "You don't need a hint"? If I don't need a hint, then don't give one.

When I review caches I try to be aware of what the hints are and give suggestions. In cases where they say they don't need one, I use this template:

 

Thanks for hiding a cache! I have a suggestion about your hint. There's nothing more frustrating than getting to the cache site and not being able to find it. So you take the time to decrypt the hint only to be told "you don't need one".

 

I'd suggest leaving it blank. If you don't have one to give, just leave the hint field empty rather than put one in there that won't help at all.

 

Let me know if you have any questions!

 

Quiggle

Geocaching.com Volunteer Cache Reviewer

My profile page: http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?u=Quiggle

 

NOTE: If you have any questions, do not reply to this email. Click on the link above to go to my profile page and you can then send me an email regarding the cache. Please include a link to the cache in question so I will know which cache it is regarding.

I then publish the cache, because there's nothing in the guidelines about useless hints. Hopefully they change it, but I don't go back to look. I've done my part, much like a note in your log about the hint not being any help. It's up to the hider to change it on their own.

It's a great template note, too bad most hiders don't listen to the friendly local reviewer and edit the page.:rolleyes:

 

I'll disagree with the OP about the occasional cryptic hint. Even if you don't know that the Scene is a local paper, chances are that the dispenser is right there in front of you if that is in the hint. A hint doesn't need to be a complete gimmie. Sometimes a nudge or gentle shove is preferable to a dopeslap. ;)

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I just came across a fantastic one. It's listed as a traditional, and the hint is:

 

"<some coordinates>. These are the coordinates for the cache. Look under the rocks."

 

The real coords in the hint are at least 300 feet from the posted coords. The logs are positive by-and-large, but they also nearly all mention being confused about the offset. I drove right past this cache this weekend but didn't have it loaded.

Edited by Dinoprophet
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I have had some nasty emails about hints. I will make them site specific to help but have been sent notes that it was a useless hint & just took up characters in the persons thing, whatever. Ive had a log or 2 posted that the info wasnt even close. Some have come from newbies some from experienced cachers. I just take it in stride as you cant please everyone.

 

I understand when a clue or hint is given such as 'done in typical so & so style' it may not help everyone but it can be useful if you know that CO.

 

I know those that cache paperless might have issues, & I dont mean that in a bad sense. I am not very electronics savy so I have my little notebook with all of the info I can gather on a cache. I read the logs before I go out & I make a list of the caches Im going to hunt. Unlike many who download everything in an area & go from there I have already been able to include or exclude info.

 

dont know if there is a better way but please be kind to those who did the cache pages :laughing:

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And, what's the idea with hints that say "You don't need a hint"? If I don't need a hint, then don't give one.

When I review caches I try to be aware of what the hints are and give suggestions. In cases where they say they don't need one, I use this template:

 

Thanks for hiding a cache! I have a suggestion about your hint. There's nothing more frustrating than getting to the cache site and not being able to find it. So you take the time to decrypt the hint only to be told "you don't need one".

 

I'd suggest leaving it blank. If you don't have one to give, just leave the hint field empty rather than put one in there that won't help at all.

 

Let me know if you have any questions!

 

Quiggle

Geocaching.com Volunteer Cache Reviewer

My profile page: http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?u=Quiggle

 

NOTE: If you have any questions, do not reply to this email. Click on the link above to go to my profile page and you can then send me an email regarding the cache. Please include a link to the cache in question so I will know which cache it is regarding.

I then publish the cache, because there's nothing in the guidelines about useless hints. Hopefully they change it, but I don't go back to look. I've done my part, much like a note in your log about the hint not being any help. It's up to the hider to change it on their own.

 

While I agree with your position and respect the thankless job that reviewers do, I think that it is not your place to even be commenting about hints unless it is something that obviously violates the rules. It borders on a passive aggressive, abuse of power maybe (ouch... sounded worse than I meant it to be). The Dakota County Sherriff here used to sign conceal carry permits here with "In Protest" under his signature. While he may have a valid opinion, a legal document is NO PLACE for a political statement. It might not be a perfect correlation but ...

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And, what's the idea with hints that say "You don't need a hint"? If I don't need a hint, then don't give one.

When I review caches I try to be aware of what the hints are and give suggestions. In cases where they say they don't need one, I use this template:

 

Thanks for hiding a cache! I have a suggestion about your hint. There's nothing more frustrating than getting to the cache site and not being able to find it. So you take the time to decrypt the hint only to be told "you don't need one".

 

I'd suggest leaving it blank. If you don't have one to give, just leave the hint field empty rather than put one in there that won't help at all.

 

Let me know if you have any questions!

 

Quiggle

Geocaching.com Volunteer Cache Reviewer

My profile page: http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?u=Quiggle

 

NOTE: If you have any questions, do not reply to this email. Click on the link above to go to my profile page and you can then send me an email regarding the cache. Please include a link to the cache in question so I will know which cache it is regarding.

I then publish the cache, because there's nothing in the guidelines about useless hints. Hopefully they change it, but I don't go back to look. I've done my part, much like a note in your log about the hint not being any help. It's up to the hider to change it on their own.

 

While I agree with your position and respect the thankless job that reviewers do, I think that it is not your place to even be commenting about hints unless it is something that obviously violates the rules. It borders on a passive aggressive, abuse of power maybe (ouch... sounded worse than I meant it to be). The Dakota County Sherriff here used to sign conceal carry permits here with "In Protest" under his signature. While he may have a valid opinion, a legal document is NO PLACE for a political statement. It might not be a perfect correlation but ...

While the Sheriff was politically and professionally incorrect at doing what he did (in fact, he should be voted out of that position), it is the Reviewer's position to provide suggestions... which is all they are. It is not passive aggressive or an abuse of power to provide same. They are designed to provide awareness.

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While I agree with your position and respect the thankless job that reviewers do, I think that it is not your place to even be commenting about hints unless it is something that obviously violates the rules. It borders on a passive aggressive, abuse of power maybe (ouch... sounded worse than I meant it to be). The Dakota County Sherriff here used to sign conceal carry permits here with "In Protest" under his signature. While he may have a valid opinion, a legal document is NO PLACE for a political statement. It might not be a perfect correlation but ...

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#guide

 

At times a cache may meet the listing requirements for the site but the reviewers, as experienced cachers, may see additional concerns that you as a cache placer may not have noticed. As a courtesy, the reviewer may bring additional concerns about cache placement to your attention and offer suggestions before posting. But as the cache owner you are responsible for placement and care of your cache. Note: Exceptions to the listing guidelines may occasionally be made depending on the novel nature and merits of a cache. If you have a cache idea you believe is novel, contact Groundspeak before placing and reporting it on the Geocaching.com web site.

 

Note I never hold up a cache because of a hint. I "offer suggestions before posting" as the guidelines say. Abuse of power would be holding it up in the review process, while posting a suggestion and moving on is quite the opposite.

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While I agree with your position and respect the thankless job that reviewers do, I think that it is not your place to even be commenting about hints unless it is something that obviously violates the rules. It borders on a passive aggressive, abuse of power maybe (ouch... sounded worse than I meant it to be). The Dakota County Sherriff here used to sign conceal carry permits here with "In Protest" under his signature. While he may have a valid opinion, a legal document is NO PLACE for a political statement. It might not be a perfect correlation but ...

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#guide

 

At times a cache may meet the listing requirements for the site but the reviewers, as experienced cachers, may see additional concerns that you as a cache placer may not have noticed. As a courtesy, the reviewer may bring additional concerns about cache placement to your attention and offer suggestions before posting. But as the cache owner you are responsible for placement and care of your cache. Note: Exceptions to the listing guidelines may occasionally be made depending on the novel nature and merits of a cache. If you have a cache idea you believe is novel, contact Groundspeak before placing and reporting it on the Geocaching.com web site.

 

Note I never hold up a cache because of a hint. I "offer suggestions before posting" as the guidelines say. Abuse of power would be holding it up in the review process, while posting a suggestion and moving on is quite the opposite.

 

Yeah yeah, I did qualify my statement in that maybe I should have chosen softer adjectives. Suggestions without roadblocks are alright I suppose, as long as the reviewer doesn't have an omniscient, God-complex (NO IMPLICATIONS).

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I have recently seen a rather disturbing trend in hints. Rather than helping one actually find a troublesome cache, they are like puzzles.

 

For me the hint is meant to nug you into the find. Puzzles are ok - easy or hard. For example, I have a difficult hide under a small rock and my hint is, "Capital of Arkansas".

However, I've recently seen one hint that says: "Not my typical hide." That's nice, except, I've never looked for or found one of your caches and have no clue what your "typical hide" might be.

 

And, one was: "This is a <name of local cacher> type hide." That's fine, except, I've never heard of that cacher and have no idea what his/her hides are like.

 

Another was "Have you scene it?" ... It turns out that "Scene" is the name of a local newspaper and once you know that, you would think to look at a nearby newspaper machine. ... Well and good for a local, but useless to a visitor.

 

You can't make hints work for everybody. A visitor from Germany might be clueless with my Arkansas hint just as I'd be clueless about a (insert geocacher) hide hint when I'm out of my area.

 

Of course, there are any number of hints which are lyrics from songs. All you need to do is figure out the song or album. (These frequently refer to either bridges or trees.) If you don't know the song or album, and don't have internet access while out hunting, you may as well not have the hint.

 

I have returned home many times to look up the clues given in hints. I don't consider this a problem when caching in my normal travel areas. But if I'm on a road trip and need to make my stops timely I do check the hints BEFORE leaving to help with the time issue. If needed I can look up more info for the hint and be ready when I arrive at the search site.

 

And, what's the idea with hints that say "You don't need a hint"? If I don't need a hint, then don't give one.

 

This is the one area where I agree with you.

 

If you are going to give a hint, make it useful or helpful and don't assume I know the local cachers or local jargon. Thanks.

 

All that being said, My first attempts are usually done without hints. If I'm looking for a difficulty 4 cache and the hint brings it down to a difficulty 2 it just somehow seems to cheapen my find. Yet everybody looking at my finds will see me making a level 4 find.

 

That hide with the hint, "cheater" might be getting a little too close to the truth. :rolleyes:

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I'll disagree with the OP about the occasional cryptic hint. Even if you don't know that the Scene is a local paper, chances are that the dispenser is right there in front of you if that is in the hint. A hint doesn't need to be a complete gimmie. Sometimes a nudge or gentle shove is preferable to a dopeslap. :rolleyes:

 

Actually, the dispenser was nowhere near. Tall buildings made the GPS very wiggy. And, I did check the nearby dispensers.

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