Coordinate Distance

[+pfcfencer1]

Ok, so I am starting to make some caches of my own and i was wondering... How far should I set the coordinates from the actual location of the cache? Should I set them while standing right next to it? Or several feet away?

[+Taoiseach]

That's entirely up to you.

 

All of mine have extremely good waypoints that put you pretty much (by my readings) right on top of it

 

However, there is one that I'm planning to hide in the near future that will be off a few feet deliberately

[+TrailGators]

I always try to make my coords as close to being correct as possible.

[+Airmapper]

IMO, as close as you can. GPS is not dead on accurate anyway, so getting it as close as possible is what I consider the goal.

[+pfcfencer1]

That's entirely up to you.

 

All of mine have extremely good waypoints that put you pretty much (by my readings) right on top of it

 

However, there is one that I'm planning to hide in the near future that will be off a few feet deliberately

 

Ya, that is what I try to do. I think that sometimes they are too easy though if you set the waypoint right on top of the cache (so to speak). Then there is not that much challenge to the cache.

 

On the other hand, I am too nervous to set waypoints several feet away or something like that because I don't want to have people mad at me because the coordinates didn't lead them right to the cache.

 

I guess it is up to you. I just want to get an idea of what other people do to see what the majority likes.

[+Taoiseach]

On the other hand, I am too nervous to set waypoints several feet away or something like that because I don't want to have people mad at me because the coordinates didn't lead them right to the cache.

 

That's what I'm wanting to happen with this one

[+PhxChem]

That's entirely up to you.

 

All of mine have extremely good waypoints that put you pretty much (by my readings) right on top of it

 

However, there is one that I'm planning to hide in the near future that will be off a few feet deliberately

 

Ya, that is what I try to do. I think that sometimes they are too easy though if you set the waypoint right on top of the cache (so to speak). Then there is not that much challenge to the cache.

 

There are other ways to increase the challenge....purposely giving the wrong coordinates isn't the best way to do it.

[+Annie & PB]

In my opinion the co-ordinates should be as accurate as you can possibly make them - due to the limitations of your GPS and the GPS of the person hunting they are going to be anywhere from 5- 20 feet or more out anyway. They will also vary slightly over a day/week due to slightly different arrangements of satellites available, from what I understand.

 

If you want to make a cache more challenging to find - create a tricky camoflage for it or make a hard puzzle.

[+joranda]

The coords should always be set at ground zero. There is nothing worst than going for a cache whos coords are way off.

[+J-Way]

The coords should always be set at ground zero. There is nothing worst than going for a cache whos coords are way off.

This is right, and the quidelines require that the coordinates be to the actual cache location if it is a traditional cache. If the cache is not at the posted coordinates then it must be listed as a Mystery/Unknown.

 

If a receiver advertises "sub-meter precision", that only applies if you're standing on top of a bald hill, clear view of the sky, no clouds, no solar flares, you have a perfect satelite constellation (sats are well spread out and not bunched together), and you are receiving correcting signals from WAAS. In real life, however, general coordinate variation caused by tree cover, building interference, satelite wobble, and atmospheric distortion very often causes errors of 20-30-ft. If your coordinates are already 30 feet off, then finders could be looking on the wrong property.

 

If you want to make it harder to find then be more creative with your hide technique, hide location, and/or camo.

[+the hermit crabs]

On the other hand, I am too nervous to set waypoints several feet away or something like that because I don't want to have people mad at me because the coordinates didn't lead them right to the cache.

 

That's what I'm wanting to happen with this one

Which do you want to happen -- that the coordinates don't point to the cache, or that people get mad at you?

 

Either way, if I lived near you and knew that it was done on purpose, the cache would go straight to the ignore list.

 

I can think of only one cache where having the posted coordinates intentionally off didn't make it annoying and ignore-worthy: Selective Availability ON. For others with deliberately "soft" coordinates, it's just a lazy hider's way of making a cache difficult. If you want it to be difficult, give the best coordinates you can but still make it almost impossible to see. Don't just lie about where it is.

[+Isonzo Karst]

From the listing guidelines

 

The coordinates listed on the traditional cache page are the exact location of the cache.....

the option of using accurate GPS coordinates as an integral part of the cache hunt must be demonstrated

 

Bold emphasis, mine. Heck, "accurate" will still be 20-60 feet off much of the time.

I've given up on a couple of hides where I just could not get coords that reliably brought me back to a spot (under very heavy tree cover).

[+Taoiseach]

On the other hand, I am too nervous to set waypoints several feet away or something like that because I don't want to have people mad at me because the coordinates didn't lead them right to the cache.

 

That's what I'm wanting to happen with this one

Which do you want to happen -- that the coordinates don't point to the cache, or that people get mad at you?

 

Either way, if I lived near you and knew that it was done on purpose, the cache would go straight to the ignore list.

 

I can think of only one cache where having the posted coordinates intentionally off didn't make it annoying and ignore-worthy: Selective Availability ON. For others with deliberately "soft" coordinates, it's just a lazy hider's way of making a cache difficult. If you want it to be difficult, give the best coordinates you can but still make it almost impossible to see. Don't just lie about where it is.

 

I'm going to put it ~10' away from a lamp post, and put the co-ords right in between

[MarcusArelius]

On the other hand, I am too nervous to set waypoints several feet away or something like that because I don't want to have people mad at me because the coordinates didn't lead them right to the cache.

 

That's what I'm wanting to happen with this one

Which do you want to happen -- that the coordinates don't point to the cache, or that people get mad at you?

 

Either way, if I lived near you and knew that it was done on purpose, the cache would go straight to the ignore list.

 

I can think of only one cache where having the posted coordinates intentionally off didn't make it annoying and ignore-worthy: Selective Availability ON. For others with deliberately "soft" coordinates, it's just a lazy hider's way of making a cache difficult. If you want it to be difficult, give the best coordinates you can but still make it almost impossible to see. Don't just lie about where it is.

 

I'm going to put it ~10' away from a lamp post, and put the co-ords right in between

 

You mean you're going to try to set the coords between the two. Unless you have a survey grade GPSr the coords you take may actually be exactly where the cache is located

[+Taoiseach]

You mean you're going to try to set the coords between the two. Unless you have a survey grade GPSr the coords you take may actually be exactly where the cache is located

 

Fair enough

 

But my other ones have had pretty good co-ordinates because I go out on a few separate occasions to test my waypoint accuracy

 

Oh, and just in case anyone missed it, this is my little dig at LPCs

[+WRASTRO]

You mean you're going to try to set the coords between the two. Unless you have a survey grade GPSr the coords you take may actually be exactly where the cache is located

 

Fair enough

 

But my other ones have had pretty good co-ordinates because I go out on a few separate occasions to test my waypoint accuracy

 

Oh, and just in case anyone missed it, this is my little dig at LPCs

Bad form in my opinion. Deliberately post bad coordinates to try to make a "point" about a hide style you don't like? What is the point?

[+pfcfencer1]

You mean you're going to try to set the coords between the two. Unless you have a survey grade GPSr the coords you take may actually be exactly where the cache is located

 

Fair enough

 

But my other ones have had pretty good co-ordinates because I go out on a few separate occasions to test my waypoint accuracy

 

Oh, and just in case anyone missed it, this is my little dig at LPCs

 

To set the waypoint as exact as you can, you need at least 4 satellites. Even though you can track your location w/ three, the more you have the better you are. Surveyors don't even do anything unless they have 4 or more because it ensures that they are on target as close as possible.

 

I think if you are connected to 4 or more satellites, you should be fine.

[CoyoteRed]

Should I set them while standing right next to it?

...or on top of it, yes!

Or several feet away?

No.

 

For traditional caches and all stages of a multi cache all coordinates should be as close to directly on top of the location as possible. After all, the hobby was built on, and as a celebration of, the accuracy of your GPS.

 

One suggestion I often make is to learn the best way of getting an accurate repeatable waypoint. (Let's not debate accuracy, the point is for others to be able to go to the same coordinates, not necessarily the exact same spot as the coordinates we use have a resolution of around 6 feet.) I've done it in the past by leaving my GPS to average on a fence post in my backyard. I developed a way to get .001 minute repeatability. With my SporTrak that took about 20-30 minutes total. There was none of this walk away, walk back, take a waypoint, repeat in a different direct, etc. I sat it down and did something else. Some folks will simply snap a waypoint and call it done. Good for them. I'm wondering if they came back tomorrow and did it again how close it would be.

 

Anyway, and in short, practice taking waypoints before you hit the field. That way you know you've got some pretty good coords and folks shouldn't complain too much.

Edited May 24, 2008 by CoyoteRed

[CoyoteRed]

Oh, and just in case anyone missed it, this is my little dig at LPCs

If I were to get a dig at LPCs I'd hide an ammo can 30' away, list the size as unknown, and put the coords right on top of it. I'd probably hide it right on the edge of a parking lot close to that lamp post.

 

Then, about 10 or 15 decoys under the lamp post skirt. A few nanos, a few film cans, etc. all with the note of "This is not it! Keep Trying!"

 

 

Of course, I'd have to prominently place a plea in the real cache to not spoil the surprise in the logs.

[+Big Bear TC]

You mean you're going to try to set the coords between the two. Unless you have a survey grade GPSr the coords you take may actually be exactly where the cache is located

 

Fair enough

 

But my other ones have had pretty good co-ordinates because I go out on a few separate occasions to test my waypoint accuracy

 

Oh, and just in case anyone missed it, this is my little dig at LPCs

 

To set the waypoint as exact as you can, you need at least 4 satellites. Even though you can track your location w/ three, the more you have the better you are. Surveyors don't even do anything unless they have 4 or more because it ensures that they are on target as close as possible.

 

I think if you are connected to 4 or more satellites, you should be fine.

My GPSr won't even display the location unless it has signals at least four satellites.

 

I just conducted a little experiment. I took my eTrex Vista CX out in the backyard and with WAAS enabled I hit mark. After it averaged just over 500 times, it had an estimated error of 10.8 feet.

[+gof1]

Will your receiver average? If so just set it at the cache site and let it do its thing. I find that if I let mine take about 100 samples it gives me a set of coordinates that makes everyone happy. It only takes a few minutes.

[+Taoiseach]

Oh, and just in case anyone missed it, this is my little dig at LPCs

If I were to get a dig at LPCs I'd hide an ammo can 30' away, list the size as unknown, and put the coords right on top of it. I'd probably hide it right on the edge of a parking lot close to that lamp post.

 

Then, about 10 or 15 decoys under the lamp post skirt. A few nanos, a few film cans, etc. all with the note of "This is not it! Keep Trying!"

 

 

Of course, I'd have to prominently place a plea in the real cache to not spoil the surprise in the logs.

 

I might just do that

 

It will be a pretty easy urban micro, but I'm planning to list it as a 2/1.5 rather than a 1/1. The Lamp Post Micro (Or worse LPSmall) is very common here (Not Ottawa - I go to University in Ottawa, I'm putting this one virtually in my Parent's back Yard) - I think this could be fun! - Also, I'm not just planning to place a cache for the sake of a cache like most do around here - I'm going to give a little bit of the history of the area, and dedicate it to the person who was killed and therefore caused it to be built.

 

And as I said, the co-ords will only be ~5' off

[+Hellolost]

As a new hunter this would discourage me. In fact reading this kind of did. I go out to find something at the coordinates it is listed. Then I widen a little if I can't find it. Try a tricky hide instead. We have searched and searched and searched the coordinates of one cache only to have it actually be right at eye level when we find it. But it was in a perfect camo container for that area. And not a tiny micro thing either. We were so proud of ourselves when we finally found the almost invisible cache.

The joy of this is in the hunt. If it is not where it is suppose to be where is the fun in that?

Edited May 24, 2008 by Hellolost

[+Taoiseach]

As a new hunter this would discourage me. In fact reading this kind of did. I go out to find something at the coordinates it is listed. Then I widen a little if I can't find it. Try a tricky hide instead. We have searched and searched and searched the coordinates of one cache only to have it actually be right at eye level when we find it. But it was in a perfect camo container for that area. And not a tiny micro thing either. We were so proud of ourselves when we finally found the almost invisible cache.

They joy of this is in the hunt. If it is not where it is suppose to be where is the fun in that?

 

Widen a little and you will find it!

 

It won't be impossible or a really long way off, it will look like it could just be legitimate GPS error

 

Intentionally or not, would 5' inaccuracy really make you mad?

Edited May 24, 2008 by Taoiseach

[+Michael]

Oh, and just in case anyone missed it, this is my little dig at LPCs

If I were to get a dig at LPCs I'd hide an ammo can 30' away, list the size as unknown, and put the coords right on top of it. I'd probably hide it right on the edge of a parking lot close to that lamp post.

 

Then, about 10 or 15 decoys under the lamp post skirt. A few nanos, a few film cans, etc. all with the note of "This is not it! Keep Trying!"

 

 

Of course, I'd have to prominently place a plea in the real cache to not spoil the surprise in the logs.

 

I might just do that

 

It will be a pretty easy urban micro, but I'm planning to list it as a 2/1.5 rather than a 1/1. The Lamp Post Micro (Or worse LPSmall) is very common here (Not Ottawa - I go to University in Ottawa, I'm putting this one virtually in my Parent's back Yard) - I think this could be fun! - Also, I'm not just planning to place a cache for the sake of a cache like most do around here - I'm going to give a little bit of the history of the area, and dedicate it to the person who was killed and therefore caused it to be built.

 

And as I said, the co-ords will only be ~5' off

 

Then you will not be able to list it as a traditional cache it will have to be a mystery or unknown type. Traditional caches MUST be the exact location (as good as your GPS can make it).

[Neos2]

Oh, and just in case anyone missed it, this is my little dig at LPCs

If I were to get a dig at LPCs I'd hide an ammo can 30' away, list the size as unknown, and put the coords right on top of it. I'd probably hide it right on the edge of a parking lot close to that lamp post.

 

Then, about 10 or 15 decoys under the lamp post skirt. A few nanos, a few film cans, etc. all with the note of "This is not it! Keep Trying!"

 

 

Of course, I'd have to prominently place a plea in the real cache to not spoil the surprise in the logs.

 

I might just do that

 

It will be a pretty easy urban micro, but I'm planning to list it as a 2/1.5 rather than a 1/1. The Lamp Post Micro (Or worse LPSmall) is very common here (Not Ottawa - I go to University in Ottawa, I'm putting this one virtually in my Parent's back Yard) - I think this could be fun! - Also, I'm not just planning to place a cache for the sake of a cache like most do around here - I'm going to give a little bit of the history of the area, and dedicate it to the person who was killed and therefore caused it to be built.

 

And as I said, the co-ords will only be ~5' off

 

Then you will not be able to list it as a traditional cache it will have to be a mystery or unknown type. Traditional caches MUST be the exact location (as good as your GPS can make it).

I'm glad to see that posted here.

 

We had a cacher around here who made all his caches have "soft" coords- and then bragged about it to others. I immediately put all his caches on my ignore list. I was very glad when he moved away.

[+hat_man]

IMHO the coord's should be as spot on as possible. As someone who is just starting out it is really frustrating finally finding a micro/nano (little scuba tank or pea sized magnetic container) after 30 minutes of searching only to find my Garmin says "It's 30 feet over there". It only takes a few minutes to set the GPS down on top of the cache or next to it and let it do it's thing and then copy the numbers down or set it as a point. To just walk up and hit the button when you stop moving I don't think gives accurate numbers. I'm not micro/nano bashing here. I think they do have their place. But if you hide one that small try and get accurate numbers. Sometimes I wonder if people are hiding caches with their TomToms on the dash and using those numbers. I have been on some GZ's that are great parking spaces. Just my opinion here not bashing.

[+PhxChem]

The Lamp Post Micro (Or worse LPSmall) is very common here

 

So to show your contempt for this type of hide you're going to.....hide ANOTHER one?

 

Another way you could do this is find a lamp post near a location that has 50,000 other hiding places. Then you could actually place a LARGER cache. No need to fudge the coords since the lamp post will probably be "calling" to them them anyway.

 

Come to think of it....5 feet may not make much of a difference anyway. You would probably get the same effect by taking the coords directly above the cache.

[+DaFunkyFrogs]

There is a cacher in our area who's coords are always way off. It's a real pita to try to figure out which window of his car he threw the cache out of as he was driving by with his thumb on the button of his GPSr.

PLEASE take accurate coords, or a lot of people won't get mad at you, they will simply start ignoring your caches.