+Berta Nick Zoey Posted May 21, 2008 Share Posted May 21, 2008 I was looking at Google maps and I see that there are over 200 caches within a 10 mile radius down in the Puyallup/Sumner/Southhill area. I was wondering, with the increased price of fuel, if there would be interest in a Cache Machine that was in the Puget Sound area. I also realize that not everyone lives in the area. I know that there are those who will say that they have gotten alot of a particular areas caches. Yet I wonder if there are enough who dont fit that catagory who would concider something like this. I personally dont have the knowledge to set something like this up. I am just posting a general question to the locals to see what sort of feedback there may be. Quote Link to comment
+LEGI0N Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I live in Renton and would be very interested. A great idea. Quote Link to comment
+AndrewRJ Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 Sounds good to me, I have barely cached in that area and a cache machine that I didn't need a hotel room for would be great. Lots of work setting them up though. Quote Link to comment
+ProjectFred325 Posted May 22, 2008 Share Posted May 22, 2008 I live in Tacoma, have done some of these caches and still think it would be fun. Quote Link to comment
+Sagefox Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 I especially like traveling to a new area for a cache machine what with the staying over a night or two as well as all the caching to and fro... ...but a cache machine in Pierce County would be great fun. Quote Link to comment
+seattlegeekgrrrlz Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 We haven't even managed to touch south of Federal Way in the Puget Sound area. We would be very interested. Quote Link to comment
+mudsneaker Posted May 23, 2008 Share Posted May 23, 2008 Looking at TravisL's profile he lists Olympia II for Jan 2010. Another Snolympia CM for the diehards I guess. Quote Link to comment
+travisl Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 If you're interested in organizing a Central Pierce Cache Machine, go for it. I haven't, because I'm selfish and try to plan cache machines where I'm not Quote Link to comment
+fairyhoney Posted May 27, 2008 Share Posted May 27, 2008 It would be nice If you might be able to put this together Quote Link to comment
+Berta Nick Zoey Posted May 27, 2008 Author Share Posted May 27, 2008 I spent a several hours working on this idea and I have more than a great apprecation for what Travis is doing. It appears as though I'd do a machine of about 50 caches. I would be interested to hear if there is anyone down that way that could suggest a spot that would be able to handle a dinner group. Quote Link to comment
+ProjectFred325 Posted May 29, 2008 Share Posted May 29, 2008 What's the route? Be more than willing to help. Send me a PM or email. Quote Link to comment
+travisl Posted May 30, 2008 Share Posted May 30, 2008 I would be interested to hear if there is anyone down that way that could suggest a spot that would be able to handle a dinner group. There's an Old Country Buffet in South Hill Mall. That seems to work the best for these kind of events. Quote Link to comment
+Berta Nick Zoey Posted May 30, 2008 Author Share Posted May 30, 2008 I have already defined a route. I'm wondering if I should take the time to contact the cache owners ahead of time to see if they have any problems with their caches being included on a cache machine. Im also looking for information on how to transform printed paper into PDF files. Im guessing that a scanner would be needed. Quote Link to comment
+ProjectFred325 Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 OCB was the place I was think of too. There are some other options in mind but that was the first in my head. Quote Link to comment
+Berta Nick Zoey Posted May 31, 2008 Author Share Posted May 31, 2008 Fred, I e-mailed you with some info. Did you get it? Let me know. Thanks Nick Quote Link to comment
+Douglas_Clan Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 We'd be willing to help out also. Quote Link to comment
+Berta Nick Zoey Posted May 31, 2008 Author Share Posted May 31, 2008 Fred, As soon as I can figure out how to get the map and directions into a file, I will send it to you for review. I had posted earlier about how to get a paper document into a PDF file. I'll google it and see what I come up with. Travis, Im curious. Looking at your maps, it appears as though you may have used a higher end product from MS rather than Steets and Trips. Is that the case? Thanks Quote Link to comment
+Lookout Lisa Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 When I worked on putting on the Spokane Cache Machine, TravisL had posted his 'how to' on a forum for a recently completed Cache Machine. I found it invaluable! I copied it down, and am going to paste it here (not sure where it was actually posted, and I'm a little too busy packing and shipping out 50 orders to find it!): Some folks have asked, both recently and over the last couple years, "TravisL, how do you set up a cache machine?" I'm just tossing this out here for whatever it may be worth; here's my process. A lot of the work is done by the MS MapPoint software I have, although rumor is that MS Streets & Trips works just as well. I use MapPoint 2004. The first step is to get a pocket query of the area, which I usually limit to 3/3 caches or easier, no events or locationless. I then dump it into GSAK and generate lists (.csv files) of caches by type - traditional, virts, multis, webcams, letterbox, etc. I import these CSV files into MapPoint, giving each set a unique icon (which I shamelessly steal off of the geocaching 'nearby cache map' page). When figuring out how many caches we can do in a day, I use MapPoint's travel times, and add seven minutes per cache. Some caches will be slower (hikes), some will be faster (drive-bys), but seven minutes has been a good working number. Five minutes is never enough, and ten minutes has left us at the end with more daylight than caches. Generally, 40-50 will be plenty for a winter cache machine, 60-70 will be good for a spring or fall cache machine, and 70-80 is good for summer. In MapPoint, lasso roughly this many caches, and "add to route". I try to make a guess as to where on the route would be a good dinner point, and set that restaurant as an end point. This should also be close to where you guess that most people will get hotel rooms. Then I find a cache near that location, make sure it's not one that would be bad to do at dawn, and set it as the start point. I then tell MapPoint "optimize route", and it puts the caches in somewhat of a good order. (Caches bad to do at dawn are those in neighborhood pocket parks and those that require access to closed business areas. Good ones are those in very heavy downtown areas -- Victoria, for example -- or rural caches that require a small hike. Nothing like a stroll through the wet grass in the brisk sunrise air to get a cache machine started; Wenatchee and Olympia had good first caches like this.) It's helpful to have the start and end point be near each other, because it allows for easier carpooling and keeps the group together longer. It also makes for a shorter drive for folks once the event is over and it's time to go home. This isn't always possible, particularly when your first guess for the restaurant turns out to be an impossibility (Pt. Townsend). Next, I step through the caches on the route one by one, visually following the route to make sure it's not doing something dumb. Most of the caches are routed OK, but often there's a few that MapPoint places in a strange order, so I have to resequence them. In areas where you're backtracking on a major arterial, MapPoint does a good job of placing right-side-of-the-road caches on the correct direction (so you're not frequently turning left across an arterial). It looks odd sometimes that (for example) cache 25 and 50 are right across the street from each other, but that's the reason. When MapPoint is plotting the route, and there's no road right to the cache (e.g., it's 0.1 mile into a park), it'll call the last direction "local roads". That's a good indication of how far someone will have to walk to get to the cache, so any "local roads" that are 0.3 or longer, I'll check the cache page to see how long the walk really is. If it's longer than a quarter mile, I delete it from the route. MapPoint always tries to route to the cache from the nearest road. Sometimes, a cache page will have parking directions at a spot that's different than the nearest road to the cache -- maybe there's a river or ravine or just no access from the MapPoint directions. When that's the case, I'll actually move the location of the cache in MapPoint (drag the icon) until the access point is the closest way to get to the (quasi-)cache. If that's not possible, I'll set the parking coordinates as the cache location in MapPoint, and draw a green line from that waypoint to the cache. Once I think the route is good for the first draft, I use free software from pdf995.com to generate the PDF file of the route. I post this on the web and link to it from the cache page, then solicit feedback in the cache comments and in the Northwest forums. After about a week, I'll re-do the route based on that feedback, and post a second draft. Another week of feedback, and then the final draft. While I'm doing this, I also run an updated pocket query to catch any caches that have recently been placed. GSAK also color codes them, so that I can tell which ones have been disabled, and I'll usually give those caches a different icon, and if they're still disabled, I'll remove them from the final draft. If a cacher tells me that a cache is in a sensitive area -- either environmental or mugglage -- I'll take a lot closer look at it. If the owner says "keep it off the route", I do, period, end of story. Sometimes, though, a cacher will say "this shouldn't be on the route," but the owner says "yes, keep it." In that case, it stays on, if it's not too far of a hike (more than 0.25 miles) or too long of a hunt (e.g., a 5 stop multi). Basically, my route is subordinate to a cache owners' wishes. Of course, if a cache is near the route, I can't keep it off of other cacher's self-run pocket queries -- all I can really do is mark it on the map as "do not get", but I always get questions on the day of the event as to why a certain cache isn't on the route, and sometimes a few cachers see the little flag on their GPS, and can't resist. Friday before the event, I'll check the pocket query one last time to see if anything's changed. At dinner that night, I'll announce any last minute changes. So, that's the route generation. Secondly, but almost as important, are dinner locations. The criteria that seem to be absolute musts: 1) Able to handle groups of about 40. We've had as few as 20 and as many as 65, and it's hard to tell in advance how many we'll get. 2) Separate checks. The two places in Port Townsend that we were looking at wanted us to have a single check for all of us. That was a show stopper. We learned the hard way in Wenatchee that having a catered-style meal doesn't work, because the restauarant won't count on serving starving people who haven't eaten all day, and who have worked up an appetite caching for the last 12 hours. 3) Beer. I'm not a big beer drinker, but I don't disagree that it really tastes good after a long day driving. I think this was the reason so few people showed up for dinner at Bremerton II. That, and the fact that the buffet food was just kind of nasty. 4) OK for kids. There will be cachers under 21, so restricted bars are out. In the past, I'd tried to keep the typical meal cost at around $10-12, so I was surprised that we had as many people showing up for dinner at the $20-30 restaurant in Sequim. The pre-event meal is usually a lot less casual. We've had it in a hotel conference room (Victoria, Olympia), we've had it at a fast food restaurant (Tri-Cities), we've had it as a potluck (Gig Harbor), we've had it at a bar (Yakima, Portland) and we've had it at pizza places (Wenatchee, Port Townsend). Overall, this takes about 6-10 hours of work to put together, spread over a few weeks. It's not a LOT of work, but it's something that the caching community will remember for a long time, so it's important to get it right. They'll remember the things that go wrong, whether you can control them or not (e.g. snow, u-turns, closed roads, cliff climbs, 12-stop multis), but they'll also remember the things that go well, too. I've never felt like this is unappreciated -- cachers are great folks that way. Quote Link to comment
+Lookout Lisa Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 TravisL may have updated his method, but this was fantastic go get us started here. A few notes to add: 1. Contact the police/sheriff to let them know about the event. This will save problems when so many cachers are looking 'suspicious' to the muggles all day! 2. Keep your dinner location updated so they know what to expect. I started with a reservation for 60... then 80... then it was 150... then it was 250 for dinner! We also reminded people to tip if they thought that they should. After dinner OBC told me that they never believe anyone that says they'll have 250 for dinner... but they'll believe ME every time!! lol 3. Be sure that someone gets to your dinner location early to ensure that your seats are really reserved! 4. Have fun!!!! Quote Link to comment
+Ambrosia Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Also, perhaps you should include more than 50 caches? Both cache machines that we've been on we found over 50 caches, and that doesn't include DNF's or skipped caches for time. And our group tends to be slower, so I'm sure others found more than 60 (still not counting DNF's and skipped caches). I'm not good at figuring out numbers, but I'd think at least 70-80 would be minimum as a base for a CM. Quote Link to comment
+Berta Nick Zoey Posted June 1, 2008 Author Share Posted June 1, 2008 Thanks for all the information. The ONLY reason I stopped at 50 caches was because MS Streets and Trips only does number icons to 50. Ill check into the Map Point situation but the last time I did look it was a very expensive program. It looks like Map Point would be a more precise program as far as routing the correct side of the street. When I was making this route, I was using Google Tweaker which showed just the cahces I had included in my query and I was checking to make sure that there wasnt any unnecessary arterial crossing. Even though as I think about it, There is one that comes to mind. As a newbie on machine design, I will do what I can to make this thing right. Thanks Quote Link to comment
+hydnsek Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 (edited) When I worked on putting on the Spokane Cache Machine, TravisL had posted his 'how to' on a forum for a recently completed Cache Machine. I found it invaluable! I copied it down, and am going to paste it here Linky: TravisL's Cache Machine Primer It's also linked from my Cache Machines bookmark list, where you can see the details for all previous CMs. FWIW, I have done 72 caches in one day at a CM, and others have done more (I think at least one team made it to 100). Many teams spread the CM over a weekend, and cache Fri-Sun, or at least Sat-Sun. So the more caches, the merrier! Edited June 1, 2008 by hydnsek Quote Link to comment
+Lookout Lisa Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 When I worked on putting on the Spokane Cache Machine, TravisL had posted his 'how to' on a forum for a recently completed Cache Machine. I found it invaluable! I copied it down, and am going to paste it here Linky: TravisL's Cache Machine Primer It's also linked from my Cache Machines bookmark list, where you can see the details for all previous CMs. FWIW, I have done 72 caches in one day at a CM, and others have done more (I think at least one team made it to 100). Many teams spread the CM over a weekend, and cache Fri-Sun, or at least Sat-Sun. So the more caches, the merrier! Thanks hydnsek!! Quote Link to comment
+Half-Canadian Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 Thanks for all the information. The ONLY reason I stopped at 50 caches was because MS Streets and Trips only does number icons to 50. Ill check into the Map Point situation but the last time I did look it was a very expensive program. It looks like Map Point would be a more precise program as far as routing the correct side of the street. When I put together the Bellingham Cache Machine a couple of years ago, I found out that I could buy a fully-functioning 60-day trial copy of Map Point from Microsoft (or Ebay) for around $10.00. It's really easy to use if you're at all familiar with Streets and Trips, and allows you to do a lot more route editing and adding/changing stops and text information. I highly recommend spending the few dollars as it will make the route layout a lot easier for you and easier for the cachers to follow. It's worth looking into, just be sure that you activate it so that you'll be able to finish the planning before it expires! Quote Link to comment
+Berta Nick Zoey Posted June 1, 2008 Author Share Posted June 1, 2008 Theres a few copies of Map Point 2004 on Ebay right now that arent too expensive. Plus I have access (hopefully) to Map Point 2006 if the price is right. So, I should have one or the other pretty soon. Then I can ger REALLY serious about this idea!! LOL. 100 caches........That shouldnt be too hard to map. I know the Douglas Clan and Projectfred325 had both offered some assistance. If either of you could e-mail me we can see what can be done. Thanks Nick Quote Link to comment
+Blue Power Ranger Posted June 1, 2008 Share Posted June 1, 2008 Theres a few copies of Map Point 2004 on Ebay right now that arent too expensive. Plus I have access (hopefully) to Map Point 2006 if the price is right. So, I should have one or the other pretty soon. Then I can ger REALLY serious about this idea!! LOL. 100 caches........That shouldnt be too hard to map. I know the Douglas Clan and Projectfred325 had both offered some assistance. If either of you could e-mail me we can see what can be done. Thanks Nick Our family would be willing to help out too. Let us know Quote Link to comment
+travisl Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 Thanks for the repost, Lisa. And thanks for the info about the differences between S&T and MapPoint -- I've never used S&T, so had no way of knowing what the differences were. I've got my original beta disks for MapPoint 2002 around here somewhere. If anyone wants them, they can have them. I've also got a full copy of MapPoint 2004 that I'll be willing to part with as soon as I get MapPoint 2009, which rumor says is due out this summer some time. I don't have the physical media for my MapPoint 2006, which seems to be quite prone to crashing after several edits. Quote Link to comment
+Berta Nick Zoey Posted June 2, 2008 Author Share Posted June 2, 2008 I scored an unopened MapPoint 2004. Should be here via USPS in about......... 3 weeks. Oh wait, I work for the PO, it shouldnt take THAT long should it? Quote Link to comment
+Berta Nick Zoey Posted June 2, 2008 Author Share Posted June 2, 2008 Also, depending on how long it takes me to build reliable route, and since I dont want to make it a week apart from one of the Travis CM's Im looking at either July 12 or 19. Or possibly one of the Saturdays in August. Not sure which one yet. Got a kid getting married and showers have to be attended. Not me.....Berta!!!! Has anyone been through the process of getting one of the Enhanced Drivers Licenses? One will be needed for Victoria CM, right? From what Ive gathered the Enhanced License is all you need if entering Canada by land or boat. Quote Link to comment
+Difranco Posted June 2, 2008 Share Posted June 2, 2008 60 Day Trial of Mappoint 2006 download here: http://www.microsoft.com/mappoint/products/2006/trial.mspx Mappoint 2009 will be released on July 21st this year: http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-MapPoint-2009/dp/B0017W8BQU Quote Link to comment
+coreynjoey Posted June 4, 2008 Share Posted June 4, 2008 Of course, CoreyNJoey would be willing to help out with anything!!! Quote Link to comment
+Berta Nick Zoey Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 Whew, Well I have the first draft of the Sumner cache machine finished. (109 total caches) Now as soon as I can figure out how to "post" it so a link will work so that it can be downlaoded, I will do so. As far as possible dates. After looking at the events scheduled for the summer, I noticed that Aug 9. 23 and 30th are not taken. I know that there will be alot of different opinions as to what weekend will work better for the most people, but Id prefer the 9th, because Im off that entire week. But the 16 could also work. Im also looking to see what sort of turnout could be expected. Its 2 months away so give it some thought. Fairly soon (when I figure out how) I will have an Event cache posted. Thanks Nick Quote Link to comment
+JustMike Posted June 10, 2008 Share Posted June 10, 2008 Either the 9th or 16th work for me. Looking forward to the adventure. JustMike Quote Link to comment
+Berta Nick Zoey Posted June 10, 2008 Author Share Posted June 10, 2008 I am wondering if anyone knows how to do the creation of an event for the Geocaching Web Site. Other than making it all text, I would like to have some sort of way to post some graphical items for the Cache Machine I am working on. Also, does anyone know where I can post the PDF's so I can link to them? Quote Link to comment
+Berta Nick Zoey Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Smile, I already asked him and he told me that his ISP provided him with a place. Im not sure how to go about finding out if MY ISP, Qwest would do the same or not. Quote Link to comment
+WRASTRO Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 I think if you have a gmail or hotmail account you can load files there and share them. Quote Link to comment
+fairyhoney Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Whew, Well I have the first draft of the Sumner cache machine finished. (109 total caches) Now as soon as I can figure out how to "post" it so a link will work so that it can be downlaoded, I will do so. As far as possible dates. After looking at the events scheduled for the summer, I noticed that Aug 9. 23 and 30th are not taken. I know that there will be alot of different opinions as to what weekend will work better for the most people, but Id prefer the 9th, because Im off that entire week. But the 16 could also work. Im also looking to see what sort of turnout could be expected. Its 2 months away so give it some thought. Fairly soon (when I figure out how) I will have an Event cache posted. Thanks Nick Please, NOT the 16th . . . That is when Geo Luau is Quote Link to comment
+Berta Nick Zoey Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Okie Dokie, NOT the 16th. Gotcha (SMILE). Wrastro, I have a hotmail account but not sure how to put something there so that people can access it? Do tell!! Quote Link to comment
+WRASTRO Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Okie Dokie, NOT the 16th. Gotcha (SMILE). Wrastro, I have a hotmail account but not sure how to put something there so that people can access it? Do tell!! In Hotmail, go to Spaces, then go to Share Files, click on add a public folder and follow the links. Here is an example: Cache Machine Draft 1 for Nick Quote Link to comment
+Berta Nick Zoey Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Test Draft 1 http://cid-645bfdd0e71282cf.skydrive.live..../sumner%203.pdf]My Webpage[/url] Quote Link to comment
+Berta Nick Zoey Posted June 11, 2008 Author Share Posted June 11, 2008 Draft 1 for Sumner Cache machine Quote Link to comment
+AndrewRJ Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 (edited) 9 am start time!!??? I will be going for about 3 hours at that point... Don't you know we start at dawn??? Edit... but I still can't spell Edited June 11, 2008 by AndrewRJ Quote Link to comment
+WRASTRO Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 9 am start time!!??? I will be going for about 3 hours at that point... Don't you know we start at dawn??? Edit... but I still can't spell I thought you said last year that you were going to be slowing down your caching once you became a Daddy. Quote Link to comment
+Berta Nick Zoey Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 Oh darn, I used the default start time that is in MapSource. Rookie Mistake. Back up the tape, start over again. Start time will be much much earlier than that. 7AM sound good? Also, Unless I get alot of negative feedback on this. I would love to do this on Aug 9th. The 16th already has an event planned. So, as soon as I figure out how to create an event listing (meaning, heeeeeeeeeeelp) I will get this thing posted. Nick Quote Link to comment
+AndrewRJ Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 9 am start time!!??? I will be going for about 3 hours at that point... Don't you know we start at dawn??? Edit... but I still can't spell I thought you said last year that you were going to be slowing down your caching once you became a Daddy. Cache machines are the outlet that I have been given. She figure 4 times a year is fine for me to be away and go crazy. Quote Link to comment
+AndrewRJ Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Oh darn, I used the default start time that is in MapSource. Rookie Mistake. Back up the tape, start over again. Start time will be much much earlier than that. 7AM sound good? Also, Unless I get alot of negative feedback on this. I would love to do this on Aug 9th. The 16th already has an event planned. So, as soon as I figure out how to create an event listing (meaning, heeeeeeeeeeelp) I will get this thing posted. Nick Ask Travis for permission, then cut and paste, then change the details. Yes it was a smart a** responce, but it might actually be the best bet. Just remember, the meal, not the caching is the event. Quote Link to comment
+Kiersolvd Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I noticed that the timing of the route did not include any time to stop and find the cache. One thing you might do is figure seven minutes for each stop. Quote Link to comment
Team Misguided Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Just remember, the meal, not the caching is the event. Good point Andrew. If there is too much about the cache run on the cache page it will delay the publication while you work things out with the reviewer. Ideally there would be a 'cache landing page' that is hosted offsite similar to the sign-up pages used by Shop99er for their events. Then you can focus the cache page on the dinner event itself and put all the cache run route info on the offsite page. Quote Link to comment
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