To bag or not to bag...

[+Eclectic Penguin]

I've often wondered if it's worth putting a cache container inside a bag to keep it dry. However, I've come across quite a few caches where all the bag has done is to collect water, surrounding the cache with a musty smell. Often, the contents are also still damp inside.

 

I used to double-bag my caches but to be honest people put the bags back in the wrong order trapping water inside the first bag thus causing the musty water problem again.

 

What do people think?

[+Jaz666]

No no no no no.

 

In fact, it's article 9 in the GAGB guidelines, so if a reviewer spots it mentioned in a cache listing they will usually make a reviewers note asking for it to be removed.

[+The Blorenges]

I was only thinking the other day (when I found a cache in a manky, soggy, snail-encrusted plastic carrier bag) that we haven't had this discussion on the Forum for quite a while.

 

If you have a look at the GAGB Guidelines for "best practice" when hiding a cache you'll see that they specifically state that a cache should not be placed in polythene bag. However, many cachers use excellent camo bags to aid concealment of their cache.

 

MrsB

Edited May 17, 2008 by The Blorenges

[+MartyBartfast]

No

 

They get wet & full of crud, they stink, and often become shredded or detached and end up as litter. If you're that worried about wetness then bag the contents in a ziplok bag or similar and put the whole lot in the cache container.

[+Just Roger]

Agree - NO NO NO NO NO

 

I have found decent cliplock boxes that have been submerged and covered in mud but the contents are as dry as a bone. I have found ice cream tubs (no advertising but the oval ones) wrapped in a green plastic bag (not advertising but from that egyptian bazzar down Knightsbridge) with the contents very wet and with about a dozen snails living inside the bag.

 

I must admit that, unless essential for camouflage, I CITO plastic bags

[+Icenians]

No no no no no.

 

In fact, it's article 9 in the GAGB guidelines, so if a reviewer spots it mentioned in a cache listing they will usually make a reviewers note asking for it to be removed.

 

Er, when did GAGB start deciding the guidelines on GC.com?

 

Surely GAGB guidelines are guidelines for GAGB members only.

[+Malpas Wanderer]

[

Surely GAGB guidelines are guidelines for GAGB members only.

 

GAGB guidelines are such that they are "best fit" for UK placements.

 

They are not restricted to GAGB members.

[+Icenians]

 

GAGB guidelines are such that they are "best fit" for UK placements.

 

They are not restricted to GAGB members.

 

Oh Dear!!

 

So I agree to GC guidelines for listings and then find I'm bound by an organisation I was somewhat opposed to when it was set up and am not a member of!

[+Donmoore]

Have to agree to a certain extent about GAGB guidelines. its all well and good having internal guidance for people who belong to said grouping but to expect it to be some kind of law is a bit 'big brother'

 

I agree hate seeing bags but I don't mind the little Camo draw string bags good for hiding cache's.

[+Icenians]

My views on GAGB etc don't mean I actually disagree with guidelines, although I don't actually know what GAGB guidelines there are.

 

On the caches in bags issue I completely agree that you shouldn't do it.

 

If you feel the container choosen for your cache will leek then perhaps you should reconsider the container rather than wrapping it in something that will degrade, get soggy, shelter slugs, etc

[+Dorsetgal & GeoDog]

Agreed, plastic bags are generally regarded as a no no, but cammo bags made from cloth are perfectly acceptable. I think I have even done a cache by Bill, chair of GAGB, which is in a fabric bag.

 

Don't see a problem with that, except after a while, they need maintaining or can get to pong a bit and degrade.

[+HazelS]

no, no, no, no!

 

If you think the cache might leak, rethink the container.

 

Oh, and DON'T use the waterproof cammo bags either, they are just as bad. If needed for cammo, use the material ones. OK, so you might have to replace them every now and again, but they won't harbour slugs and snails and if an animal fancies a nibble, they won't be harmed.

[+The Hornet]

When I used to review caches and saw they were wrapped in a plastic bag I always used to add this "boilerplate" text.

 

Hi, I've just released your new cache and I hope it goes well. Thanks for submitting it.

 

Just one thing though, you mention it's in a plastic bag. These are generally not a good idea as not only can they be chewed by small animals causing potential problems, they also tend to trap more water than they keep out! I've been to many caches where this has happened and it ain't nice!!

 

Can I suggest you either remove the bag or ask the first finder to dispose of it for you.

 

Thanks for your help.

 

As for the GAGB guidelines, these were treated as "best practice" by the reviewing team at the time. A sort of documented common sense approach for local conditions. Local reviewers always used to be able to apply local knowledge and custom when reviewing caches here. This often included elements documented on the GAGB website and sometimes stuff that wasn't. There was never, and still isn't, any requirement to belong to GAGB to find or hide a cache in the UK.

[+Simply Paul]

I was a bagger in the past. These days I'd put the bag INSIDE the cache if anywhere. It does the same job of keeing the contents dry there, and rather better than a filthy, damp, slug-hotel external bag does.

[+dino-irl]

 

GAGB guidelines are such that they are "best fit" for UK placements.

 

They are not restricted to GAGB members.

 

Oh Dear!!

 

So I agree to GC guidelines for listings and then find I'm bound by an organisation I was somewhat opposed to when it was set up and am not a member of!

This phrase on the guidelines page covers a multitude of things many of which are outlined and explained in the GAGB's "Best Practice" guide.

 

At times a cache may meet the listing requirements for the site but the reviewers, as experienced cachers, may see additional concerns that you as a cache placer may not have noticed. As a courtesy, the reviewer may bring additional concerns about cache placement to your attention and offer suggestions before posting.

[+Icenians]

This phrase on the guidelines page covers a multitude of things many of which are outlined and explained in the GAGB's "Best Practice" guide.

 

I don't want to hijack this thread and certainly don't want to rake over some very old ground but the point was that GAGB Best Practice and guidelines are there for their members. As a non member I'm not even going to be aware of them let alone bound by them! That doesn't mean I disagree with them.

 

Peter has explained very well how he used to handle this and, as I've always found with Peter, he's managed it very very wisely

[paganfrog]

no to bags. i do suggest that you can get ziplock bags of all sizes and i think these are great to protect a single item that could get damaged by water if the box does leak. i just wish people would remember to do this, by either carrying some small ziplock baggies for the items they leave or if the cache owner would leave a few inside the box for any potential use. the good thing about these bags is they can be reused loads of times.

[+Eclectic Penguin]

Not to bag it is then!

 

Most of my recent hides have no bags but in the early days I used to double bag - as mentioned above this didn't work in the long run.

 

I can think of only two caches I have that still need to have external bags. One still needs good water-tight bags due to the nature of the cache container (which used to have a previous life as something completely different and the novelty of the cache is finding the container).

 

The other is constantly filling with water and probably needs a rethink with regards to container (even the best air-tight tupperware I've used fill with water there and I can't think why, despite the bags) or indeed location as nobody's actually visited for the best part of a year now apart from me on some maintenance visits - pretty remote!

[+dino-irl]

This phrase on the guidelines page covers a multitude of things many of which are outlined and explained in the GAGB's "Best Practice" guide.

 

I don't want to hijack this thread and certainly don't want to rake over some very old ground but the point was that GAGB Best Practice and guidelines are there for their members. As a non member I'm not even going to be aware of them let alone bound by them! That doesn't mean I disagree with them.

 

Peter has explained very well how he used to handle this and, as I've always found with Peter, he's managed it very very wisely

I also don't wish to hijack the thread but I should have explained my point better. The GAGB guidelines (in the same way as the Geocaching Ireland ones) are not GC.com Guidelines. However, they are extensions of the guidelines put into a format that has specific relevance to the UK and/or Ireland. They are not enforceable but many of them are common sense and I will refuse a cache based on them if I believe there is a valid reason that I can stand over. The phrase that I quoted from the GC.com guidelines gives me the leeway to do so.

 

I'd also like to make the point that as a reviewer I always try to work with the cache owner to try and modify the cache to meet the guidelines. I always prefer saying yes over no

[+Maple Leaf]

On the subject of camo bags .... I have used these in my newer caches, but read somewhere recently that the 'warning label - this is a geocache etc, contents are harmless' should be on the 'outside' of the camo bag.

 

In someways this makes sense ..... as who would want to open a camo bag to see what is inside (my boxes are clearly labelled and have the GAGB recommended contact number on them).

 

What is everyones opinions about labelling the outside of the camo bag (although don't think it would be easy to do).

Thanks

[+Rubarbb]

One still needs good water-tight bags due to the nature of the cache container (which used to have a previous life as something completely different and the novelty of the cache is finding the container).

 

I think I know which one you mean there! We've found it!!

 

Ellen

[+Matrix]

One still needs good water-tight bags due to the nature of the cache container (which used to have a previous life as something completely different and the novelty of the cache is finding the container).

 

I think I know which one you mean there! We've found it!!

 

Ellen

 

I definately know which one it is and even though I had a good idea what I was looking for I still had a suprise when I actually opened the bag

 

Still makes me smile thnking about it now

[+Rubarbb]

One still needs good water-tight bags due to the nature of the cache container (which used to have a previous life as something completely different and the novelty of the cache is finding the container).

 

I think I know which one you mean there! We've found it!!

 

Ellen

 

I definately know which one it is and even though I had a good idea what I was looking for I still had a suprise when I actually opened the bag

 

Still makes me smile thnking about it now

 

Awwwwww its the small things that please small minds!

 

Going back on topic I would say deinately no to boxes in bags! I would say we are spoilt in South Wales with some great cachers as more often then not we open a box to find a Zip loc bag with the log book in and another with the cache contents in. Very rare to find a wet cache!

 

Ellen

Edited May 18, 2008 by jamesandellen

[+JeremyR]

There have been two times that I have been with muggles when finding a cache, and both times the cache was in a plastic bag and tbh, I think it soured their first impression of geocaching because it made the cache look like nothing more than litter. In both cases I CITO'd the bags, which were mouldy, holey and smelly and I wouldn't hesitate to remove any more I come across because I think it affects outsider's views of the game. (clarity edit: besides the other very good reasons, obviously )

 

Ironically, both of the caches in question were perfectly sealed Lock & Locks

Edited May 18, 2008 by JeremyR

[+Eclectic Penguin]

 

Still makes me smile thnking about it now

 

Did you say cheese ?

[+John Stead]

I totally agree with the no plastic bags plea and would add that if the idea of the bag was to camoflage the box it is far better to use a camo bag or paint the box with matt dark paint.

As to boxes leaking what I think sometime happens is that when the box is closed either one of the plastic bags in the container or a piece of foliage outside gets trapped in the seal and renders it ineffective. I found an ammo box yesterday which was quite damp inside and I think that is what had happened - or perhaps (perish the thought) it had been opened in a downpour!

[+slimey]

Of course, the problem with a watertight box, is if any water gets into it (e.g. by being found in the rain), there's no way for the water to escape, so it just stays there, and festers...

 

Simon

[+Geo.Kitten]

One of my first ones was so disgusting I had to wash my hands after :< It hasnt put me off caching though I did find one that was in two containers the outter had a little bit of water in it but the inner one was dry so I thought that could be a good idea.

[+Eclectic Penguin]

One of my first ones was so disgusting I had to wash my hands after :< It hasnt put me off caching though I did find one that was in two containers the outter had a little bit of water in it but the inner one was dry so I thought that could be a good idea.

 

I usually carry a tube of antiseptic hand wash with me for these caches. It needs no water and is completely dry within 30 seconds. Because it's alcohol based it evaproates very quickly giving a really cool chill feeling to your hands - a feeling I now associate with a successful find

[+Geo.Kitten]

One of my first ones was so disgusting I had to wash my hands after :< It hasnt put me off caching though I did find one that was in two containers the outter had a little bit of water in it but the inner one was dry so I thought that could be a good idea.

 

I usually carry a tube of antiseptic hand wash with me for these caches. It needs no water and is completely dry within 30 seconds. Because it's alcohol based it evaproates very quickly giving a really cool chill feeling to your hands - a feeling I now associate with a successful find

 

Now i dont have to feel bad I do the same lol get it at work I'm a nurse I carry the stuff everywhere!

[+Jonovich]

the idea of the bag was to camoflage the box it is far better to use a camo bag or paint the box with matt dark paint.

 

One of our local cachers have used Lock & Lock boxes that have been taped up in Duck tape. They use an Olive Green/tan brown coloured tape that really blends into the undergrowth. It's really effective, plus the Geocache warning sticker can still be applied.

 

J

[+Andy_and_Alfie]

We found a cache the other day (up overlooking the M62) where the cache container was in a plastic bag (not supermarket type) and also in the bag was a full bottle of Becks beer. There were also some discarded empty bottles in the vicinity so we think that some muggles left a beer for the cache !

[+maxkim]

Of course, the problem with a watertight box, is if any water gets into it (e.g. by being found in the rain), there's no way for the water to escape, so it just stays there, and festers...

 

Simon

This happened to one of ours just days after we replaced it with a new box, then a week later we had a log saying it was water logged, a double seal box at that.... how we chuckled...... not. MaxKim

[+derrylynne]

Have to agree it is a big NO to use plastic bags. When we first started we were as guilty as the rest, but soon realised they are a bad idea. Nowadays we use duct tape, nice black tape that is a good for hiding the cache in dark places. Boxes that are air tight - and of course water tight are widely available. We must admit to cito'ing some bags from caches we have visited as they were so manky. Now we are on holiday next week - and are planning quite a few Eclectic Penguin caches - no plastic bags to cito we hope. laughs....

Edited May 19, 2008 by derrylynne

[+Captain Gore-tex]

Not to bag it is then!

 

Most of my recent hides have no bags but in the early days I used to double bag - as mentioned above this didn't work in the long run.

 

 

Double Bagging never works, you still have the same regrets in the morning.

[+Pharisee]

Agreed, plastic bags are generally regarded as a no no, but cammo bags made from cloth are perfectly acceptable. I think I have even done a cache by Bill, chair of GAGB, which is in a fabric bag.

 

Don't see a problem with that, except after a while, they need maintaining or can get to pong a bit and degrade.

They tend to get eaten by varmints too.... Although from my experience with them, the waterproofed polyurethane type fabrics seem to be a lot less tasty and last longer than the polycotton type fabrics.