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Stumbling across illegal plants.


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Have any of you ran into a growing operation, big or small, while out looking for a cache? What would you do? Ignore it? Leave the area? Call authorities? I found a local spot on public land where someone has a dozen or more plants growing. These plants are in a cache area, and it is almost impossible to not find them while searching. I took my son and left the area.

 

It's not so much that I am against pot. I don't do it, but what you do in the privacy of you own home is none of my business. But when you are using public land to do this, and it interferes with my recreation, it kind of irks me. And you never know how defensive (or offensive) a grower might be if he caught you around his plants. What would you do?

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I would do just as you did and leave. Not only do you have to worry about the plants gardener being irate, but what if the police already know about it and are waiting for someone to come and tend the garden to make the bust. You sure would look guilty out there trampling through the stuff with nothing else around.

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I would definitely get the heck out of the area ASAP. Illegal drugs are very expensive, so those that produce them tend to protect them with firearms, you certainly don't want to get involved with their ilk in any case. After that, you might want to report the operation to the police, you can do so via anonymous tip line if you are worried about your safety.

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Have any of you ran into a growing operation, big or small, while out looking for a cache? What would you do? Ignore it? Leave the area? Call authorities? I found a local spot on public land where someone has a dozen or more plants growing. These plants are in a cache area, and it is almost impossible to not find them while searching. I took my son and left the area.

 

It's not so much that I am against pot. I don't do it, but what you do in the privacy of you own home is none of my business. But when you are using public land to do this, and it interferes with my recreation, it kind of irks me. And you never know how defensive (or offensive) a grower might be if he caught you around his plants. What would you do?

 

In Hawaii, I've encountered growing operations in various stages of development a handful of times, including one pretty full scale operation. I choose to vacate the area and do my best to forget that what I just saw. I just compare it to the guy that just whizzed past me at 100mph on the freeway. Sure, it irks me a bit. But not badly enough to get involved in the enforcement of the law.

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I would let the owners of the cache know that there is that nearby since it could be endangering any other fellow cachers that go out there in search for that cache. I doubt its his mary jane growing in the area so he can at least disable the cache temperarly and move the cache to a better location.

 

Other then that I just would forget I ever saw it and don't go back in the area anymore. The next time u might not be so lucky to get out without a confrontation from the authoritys or the growers.

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I would let the owners of the cache know that there is that nearby since it could be endangering any other fellow cachers that go out there in search for that cache. I doubt its his mary jane growing in the area so he can at least disable the cache temperarly and move the cache to a better location.

 

Other then that I just would forget I ever saw it and don't go back in the area anymore. The next time u might not be so lucky to get out without a confrontation from the authoritys or the growers.

 

That's kind of like letting the problem control you, rather than controlling the problem, isn't? It's public land, why shouldn't I or any others be able to use the land because one guy wants to do this?

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I would let the owners of the cache know that there is that nearby since it could be endangering any other fellow cachers that go out there in search for that cache. I doubt its his mary jane growing in the area so he can at least disable the cache temperarly and move the cache to a better location.

 

Other then that I just would forget I ever saw it and don't go back in the area anymore. The next time u might not be so lucky to get out without a confrontation from the authoritys or the growers.

 

That's kind of like letting the problem control you, rather than controlling the problem, isn't? It's public land, why shouldn't I or any others be able to use the land because one guy wants to do this?

 

If there weren't thousands of acres of public land available to me to recreate on, I suppose I could see this point. I elect to treat this the same as any other dangerous area I run across in the outback. If an area is known to have overgrown lava tubes, I avoid it. Very active pig hunting area, I move on. Same with this.

 

While I don't judge those who elect to be proactive and take it upon themselves to see that justice is served for all the wrong they encounter, my free time is limited and precious to me. I don't consider enforcement of the war on drugs as recreation or even the least bit satisfying.

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Have any of you ran into a growing operation, big or small, while out looking for a cache? What would you do? Ignore it? Leave the area? Call authorities? I found a local spot on public land where someone has a dozen or more plants growing. These plants are in a cache area, and it is almost impossible to not find them while searching. I took my son and left the area.

 

It's not so much that I am against pot. I don't do it, but what you do in the privacy of you own home is none of my business. But when you are using public land to do this, and it interferes with my recreation, it kind of irks me. And you never know how defensive (or offensive) a grower might be if he caught you around his plants. What would you do?

You have raised a timely issue of growing importance. At least here on the East Coast of the USA, illegal non-native plants have become a big issue that threatens to loom even larger over the next few years. As just one case in point, wavyleaf basket grass (Oplismenus hirtellus ssp., including Oplismenus hirtellus ssp. undulatifolius) and the lookalike Japanese stiltgrass (Microstegium vimineum) have been identified by MD DNR and by federal authorities as a major threat. In fact, the invasion of wavy-leaf basket grass has strongly impacted geocaching in some our state parks, as MD DNR has prohibited the placement of geocaches in some large areas of Maryland state parks which are already infested by this illegal invasive species in order to help to prevent its spread. One example of such a recent administrative "no-geocache placement" action is the McKeldin area of Patapsco State Park, and all areas of Patapsco State Park north of Woodstock Road.

 

MD DNR and federal officials are also waging a never-ending but somewhat hopeless war against some invasive species of aquatic plants on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, although this battle has not yet affected approval of geocache placements, to my best knowledge.

 

While some previous posters have advocated NOT reporting sightings of such illegal invasive species to authorities, at least in the case of the above-mentioned wavy-leaf basket grass in the state parks, DNR has made clear that they much appreciate reports from geocachers and hikers of sightings of the plant, and if the reports include accurate GPS waypoint coordinates for the sites, so much the better.

 

By the way, at least here in Maryland and in the neighboring state of Virginia, the problem of illegal non-native invasive species is not limited only to illegal invasive plants, but rather, there are also ongoing problems with the illegal snakehead fish (Channidae sp., an ambulatory Asian fish, including Chana argus, the most common variety) and two illegal species of invasive oyster as well. And, there is a big problem in Maryland and surrounding states with an illegal non-native algae, Didymosphenia geminata (also known as Didymo or "rock snot".) This diatomaceous alga forms heavy mats during its growing period and can coat stream bottoms, boats, docks and manmade equipment, including pumps and pipes. The dense wavy mats formed by these algae look like soggy toilet tissue floating in water and have given rise to the slang term "rock snot" for this algae. In fact, this illegal non-native algae has become such a problem here in Maryland that last month (April 2008) it was named the Invader of the Month by the esteemed Maryland Invasive Species Council.

 

For all of the above-mentioned illegal species, both MD and VA authorities do seem to appreciate being notified by geocachers (and others) of sightings, along with GPS coordinates for infestation sites, if possible. And, at least in Maryland, authorities are actively recruiting hikers and geocachers as volunteers to receive training in ferreting out and removing illegal non-native species in an ongoing program.

 

So, bottom line is that the issue you raised in your post about illegal plants is a timely one! Thanks!

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Have any of you ran into a growing operation, big or small, while out looking for a cache? What would you do? Ignore it? Leave the area? Call authorities? I found a local spot on public land where someone has a dozen or more plants growing. These plants are in a cache area, and it is almost impossible to not find them while searching. I took my son and left the area.

 

It's not so much that I am against pot. I don't do it, but what you do in the privacy of you own home is none of my business. But when you are using public land to do this, and it interferes with my recreation, it kind of irks me. And you never know how defensive (or offensive) a grower might be if he caught you around his plants. What would you do?

I would waypoint the spot, leave the area, then make an anonymous call to the police. To do anything less is letting the bad guys win, which nowadays happens all too often because people don't want to get involved.

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A few tips I've received in my training as a park volunteer.

 

1. Don't touch anything and leave the area quickly by retracing the route you used to enter the area. You never know if the growers may have set traps or tripwires and you happened to miss them on the way in.

2. Take a fast waypoint if you can.

3. Once someplace safe, notify the law enforcement agency responsible for the area. Tell them what you saw and the coords. You can make the report anonymously if you want but I wouldn't worry about being a suspect. How many criminals report their own activity to the cops?

 

Ignoring the situation or pretending you didn't see it is a cop out. It's my public land as well and I shouldn't be afraid to use certain parts of it.

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I agree with Runaround. Take a quick waypoint, leave, contact the authorities & let the CO know that cache is in an area of questionable safety.

 

DO NOT tamper with anything. Leave as you came in & do what you need to do. Someone somewhere has to start or the problem just keeps growing.....No pun intended. MW

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Have any of you ran into a growing operation, big or small, while out looking for a cache? What would you do? Ignore it? Leave the area? Call authorities? I found a local spot on public land where someone has a dozen or more plants growing. These plants are in a cache area, and it is almost impossible to not find them while searching. I took my son and left the area.

 

It's not so much that I am against pot. I don't do it, but what you do in the privacy of you own home is none of my business. But when you are using public land to do this, and it interferes with my recreation, it kind of irks me. And you never know how defensive (or offensive) a grower might be if he caught you around his plants. What would you do?

You have raised a timely issue of growing importance. At least here on the East Coast of the USA, illegal non-native plants have become a big issue that threatens to loom even larger over the next few years. As just one case in point, wavyleaf basket grass (Oplismenus hirtellus ssp., including Oplismenus hirtellus ssp. undulatifolius) and the lookalike Japanese stiltgrass (Microstegium vimineum) have been identified by MD DNR and by federal authorities as a major threat. In fact, the invasion of wavy-leaf basket grass has strongly impacted geocaching in some our state parks, as MD DNR has prohibited the placement of geocaches in some large areas of Maryland state parks which are already infested by this illegal invasive species in order to help to prevent its spread. One example of such a recent administrative "no-geocache placement" action is the McKeldin area of Patapsco State Park, and all areas of Patapsco State Park north of Woodstock Road.

 

MD DNR and federal officials are also waging a never-ending but somewhat hopeless war against some invasive species of aquatic plants on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, although this battle has not yet affected approval of geocache placements, to my best knowledge.

 

While some previous posters have advocated NOT reporting sightings of such illegal invasive species to authorities, at least in the case of the above-mentioned wavy-leaf basket grass in the state parks, DNR has made clear that they much appreciate reports from geocachers and hikers of sightings of the plant, and if the reports include accurate GPS waypoint coordinates for the sites, so much the better.

 

By the way, at least here in Maryland and in the neighboring state of Virginia, the problem of illegal non-native invasive species is not limited only to illegal invasive plants, but rather, there are also ongoing problems with the illegal snakehead fish (Channidae sp., an ambulatory Asian fish, including Chana argus, the most common variety) and two illegal species of invasive oyster as well. And, there is a big problem in Maryland and surrounding states with an illegal non-native algae, Didymosphenia geminata (also known as Didymo or "rock snot".) This diatomaceous alga forms heavy mats during its growing period and can coat stream bottoms, boats, docks and manmade equipment, including pumps and pipes. The dense wavy mats formed by these algae look like soggy toilet tissue floating in water and have given rise to the slang term "rock snot" for this algae. In fact, this illegal non-native algae has become such a problem here in Maryland that last month (April 2008) it was named the Invader of the Month by the esteemed Maryland Invasive Species Council.

 

For all of the above-mentioned illegal species, both MD and VA authorities do seem to appreciate being notified by geocachers (and others) of sightings, along with GPS coordinates for infestation sites, if possible. And, at least in Maryland, authorities are actively recruiting hikers and geocachers as volunteers to receive training in ferreting out and removing illegal non-native species in an ongoing program.

 

So, bottom line is that the issue you raised in your post about illegal plants is a timely one! Thanks!

 

Sounds like a great CITO Project

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Have any of you ran into a growing operation, big or small, while out looking for a cache? What would you do? Ignore it? Leave the area? Call authorities? I found a local spot on public land where someone has a dozen or more plants growing. These plants are in a cache area, and it is almost impossible to not find them while searching. I took my son and left the area.

 

It's not so much that I am against pot. I don't do it, but what you do in the privacy of you own home is none of my business. But when you are using public land to do this, and it interferes with my recreation, it kind of irks me. And you never know how defensive (or offensive) a grower might be if he caught you around his plants. What would you do?

I would waypoint the spot, leave the area, then make an anonymous call to the police. To do anything less is letting the bad guys win, which nowadays happens all too often because people don't want to get involved.

 

I agree. "All it takes for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing" Sir Edmund Burke

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A few tips I've received in my training as a park volunteer.

 

1. Don't touch anything and leave the area quickly by retracing the route you used to enter the area. You never know if the growers may have set traps or tripwires and you happened to miss them on the way in.

 

 

This is an excellent point. The growers tend to be very protective of their cache crops (sorry, couldn't resist) and booby traps are not unheard of at all around the growing areas.

 

Naomi

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I'd take a waypoint and skeedaddle, then give the coords to the authorities from some safe location and let them take it from there. I have no objection to people smoking whatever they please, but the reality is that there are some dangerous hombres in this line of work. Leaving their plantation undisturbed for some other hiker to blunder upon and perhaps end up as collateral damage in the War on Drugs is not an option for me ethically.

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ummm....just WHERE is this cache? :D I'd volunteer to CITO that area AFTER the grower was incarcerated. :D

 

I'm afraid that if you were to make that attempt here, all you would find is 300 acres that looked like it had been bulldozed. The multi-million dollar raid just up the road from me was quiet, unobtrusive, and done on the QT. However, when somebody went to see if they overlooked something during the CITO, not a single piece of evidence of illegal cache was left. :D

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I'd take a waypoint and skeedaddle, then give the coords to the authorities from some safe location and let them take it from there. I have no objection to people smoking whatever they please, but the reality is that there are some dangerous hombres in this line of work. Leaving their plantation undisturbed for some other hiker to blunder upon and perhaps end up as collateral damage in the War on Drugs is not an option for me ethically.

 

I think this is a bit of an oxymoron you folks are discussing here. The gardens I have "stumbled across" (and I believe most to be in this category) posed almost no danger of another hiker running into them because they were in extremely remote and inaccessible locations. I suppose I might have felt differently if I thought that others would be put in danger by their existence.

 

This is really an individual choice that someone makes with no right or wrong attached to it. It is just the same as someone not choosing to call 911 when the car passes them going 100mph on the freeway, or contacting the IRS when you have knowledge of someone cheating on their taxes, or running down to the police substation when you see someone parking illegally etc.

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Don't snoop around the field. Backtrack exactly the way you came. We've found several booby trapped fields protected with shotguns rigged with trip wires, punji pits, dead falls, and others. We've also found them protected by guards and trained attack dogs. It's not unusual for the growers to "seed" their plots using $1 bills scattered around the area. That way if someone picks up the money they know someone has been there.

It can be very dangerous. Not something to mess around with. Doesn't matter at all what your feelings are one way or the other about if it should be legalized or whatever. A trip wired shotgun, punji pit, and a trained pit bull don't ask your political beliefs. Some of these people will kill you - dead and forever.

Should you report it? Ask yourself this question. If the field you come upon is boobytrapped (and you most likely would never know it unless you set off a trap), you decide because you think pot should be legalized or that you don't have any right messing with someone else's business so you don't report it, and then later on some young kid or innocent family hiking thru the area is killed or seriously maimed because you didn't report it so it could be removed. You are responsible they were killed or seriously injured because you didn't report it. Is that something you would be proud to tell your friends and family?

Edited by Wadcutter
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I'd take a waypoint and skeedaddle, then give the coords to the authorities from some safe location and let them take it from there. I have no objection to people smoking whatever they please, but the reality is that there are some dangerous hombres in this line of work. Leaving their plantation undisturbed for some other hiker to blunder upon and perhaps end up as collateral damage in the War on Drugs is not an option for me ethically.

 

I think this is a bit of an oxymoron you folks are discussing here. The gardens I have "stumbled across" (and I believe most to be in this category) posed almost no danger of another hiker running into them because they were in extremely remote and inaccessible locations. I suppose I might have felt differently if I thought that others would be put in danger by their existence.

 

This is really an individual choice that someone makes with no right or wrong attached to it. It is just the same as someone not choosing to call 911 when the car passes them going 100mph on the freeway, or contacting the IRS when you have knowledge of someone cheating on their taxes, or running down to the police substation when you see someone parking illegally etc.

 

Has there ever been a case of bobby trapped pot "gardens" in Hawaii? Is growing and selling pot even profitable in Hawaii? I know Ice is a big problem. I imagine those "gardens" in Hawaii are personal or family gardens and the chances of them being bobby trapped are slim. On the mainland it is a different story. If I found a "garden" here I'd get out of the area ASAP.

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I'd take a waypoint and skeedaddle, then give the coords to the authorities from some safe location and let them take it from there. I have no objection to people smoking whatever they please, but the reality is that there are some dangerous hombres in this line of work. Leaving their plantation undisturbed for some other hiker to blunder upon and perhaps end up as collateral damage in the War on Drugs is not an option for me ethically.

 

I think this is a bit of an oxymoron you folks are discussing here. The gardens I have "stumbled across" (and I believe most to be in this category) posed almost no danger of another hiker running into them because they were in extremely remote and inaccessible locations. I suppose I might have felt differently if I thought that others would be put in danger by their existence.

 

This is really an individual choice that someone makes with no right or wrong attached to it. It is just the same as someone not choosing to call 911 when the car passes them going 100mph on the freeway, or contacting the IRS when you have knowledge of someone cheating on their taxes, or running down to the police substation when you see someone parking illegally etc.

 

Follow your conscience. It's a bit more top-of-mind down here on the border, as there have been unsolved murders of hunters, and cases of lawmen and civilians being threatened or shot at. As I say, I don't disapprove of the product, any more than I do of wine or whiskey. But gangsters, whether they're Tommy-gun toting rumrunners or AK-wielding dope smugglers, are a significant danger to backcountry wanderers. I couldn't in good conscience leave 'em go unreported.

 

On the ambivalence of approving of dope but not dope smugglers: During my youth in Florida in the 70s, I knew a guy who was a part-time sheriff's deputy. He participated in the incineration of a very large cache of marijuana. Basically, he just helped break up bales and pitchfork them into a bonfire. As he was telling us this story, we all had the same question on our minds. "So, what did you do?" "Well," he said, "I was kind of nervous, so I just followed the lead of the full-time deputies. I stood downwind and inhaled deeply."

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Don't snoop around the field. Backtrack exactly the way you came. We've found several booby trapped fields protected with shotguns rigged with trip wires, punji pits, dead falls, and others. We've also found them protected by guards and trained attack dogs. It's not unusual for the growers to "seed" their plots using $1 bills scattered around the area. That way if someone picks up the money they know someone has been there.

It can be very dangerous. Not something to mess around with. Doesn't matter at all what your feelings are one way or the other about if it should be legalized or whatever. A trip wired shotgun, punji pit, and a trained pit bull don't ask your political beliefs. Some of these people will kill you - dead and forever.

Should you report it? Ask yourself this question. If the field you come upon is boobytrapped (and you most likely would never know it unless you set off a trap), you decide because you think pot should be legalized or that you don't have any right messing with someone else's business so you don't report it, and then later on some young kid or innocent family hiking thru the area is killed or seriously maimed because you didn't report it so it could be removed. You are responsible they were killed or seriously injured because you didn't report it. Is that something you would be proud to tell your friends and family?

 

I suppose if this is the MO of the growers you deal with, sure. In Hawaii, our enforcement is so good that most all of the operations have gone inside and the few that I have encountered in my many trips into the outback are in very remote areas. Our drug enforcement patrols use a very sophisticated infrared camera system mounted on a helicopter and do great job of finding these operations and they have been on the steep decline.

 

But don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge anyone who elects to aid the authorities in the enforcement of any law. I am glad that people care. But as a private citizen who pays a lot of taxes so that there are people to enforce these laws working 24/7, I reserve the right to draw the line on my own involvement with a clear conscious.

Edited by Team GeoBlast
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Some of the advice, if not all is good but I think people are being a little melodramatic here.

 

He said there were 12 plants. This is just some stoners garden that you stumbled upon. I seriously doubt anyone is booby trapping 12 plants. Certainly not with $400+ shot guns.

 

If it were me. I'd create a waypoint. Take a few pictures. Walk out the same way I came in. Probably, call it in via 911 with the lat/long once I was in my car and moving, depending on how my day was going.

 

If I was a serious waymarker, I'd submit it, hoping to score a new category. Then log my cache adventure as a DNF. A month later I'd go back and find the cache without the plants in the way.

 

Stupid stoners....you buy land first, then plant the garden. Pot gets your priorites so out of whack.

Edited by Morning Dew
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I do a lot of hiking but have yet to find a pot garden. But if I ever do I shall report it! I'm sorry, but growing illegal weed in our public lands is no different than planting it in my own back yard. I should be able to enjoy all the public lands which are open to us the same as I can enjoy my own back yard.

 

Caching is a family activity. What are you telling your children if you look the other way when somebody is doing something which could harm or kill others (even if it is the drug itself)? What if another family is hurt because you didn't report the illegal site? Here in Northern Califoria are we to allow the Mexican Mafia marijuana gardens to continue their takeover of public lands?

 

If somebody passes me at 100mph: unless a cop is nearby he's gone and will do it another day until he kills himself (and hopefully not others) then the problem has taken care of itself. Meanwhile, yes, make that phone call. Maybe you can get that nut off the road!

 

Somebody cheating on taxes: They are hurting themselves and not out to hurt or kill others.

 

As for the (only) 12 plants....Was that all that were viewed before leaving (more over the hill?)? The owner of those 12 plants should have choosen another non-public place to grow thier stash. Are they the one who may be high on their private stash and doing 100mph on the roads? As far as I know the same laws apply to him and I will report it.

 

This is a nation of laws. Way too many people look the other way. Let's keep our public lands safe for our families and safe for caching.

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In BC it's not uncommon to come across a little personal 'crop' every now and then and I do believe they're a personal crop not a 'cache crop'.

 

We have come across two small crops during cache outings... once when hiding and once when hunting.

 

The first was near a cache that we hid. We found a few trails in to the cache location and one of them went right past 3 marijuana plants. We continued on, hid the cache and came out by another trail farther on which was obviously the better route. the cache was there for two years and nobody mentioned every seeing the crop so I guess they used the better access. The first time we did cache maintenance the first trail had grown over and the crop was gone... I think the local cachers were oblivious to the plants.

 

The second was last summer in the lush terrain at the side of a lovely bubbling creek - just within splash distance. Each plant was surrounded by copper at the base (to keep the bugs off?) and you could see a lot of care had gone into the planting. It looked as they they had JUST been planted as the earth was still a little rough around them. We admired their handiwork (as gardeners) and continued on. It was about 6-7 plants 9" tall.... We were bushwacking our way out of a cache that we'd bushwhacked into so I'd be very surprised if anyone else looking for this cache has came across it.

 

We read about it in other people's logs too. Alternatively, if we found a large plantation I would waymark and report it for sure. I'm pretty sure I can tell the difference between a personal crop and a moneymaking venture :P .

Edited by Landsharkz
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I do a lot of hiking but have yet to find a pot garden. But if I ever do I shall report it! I'm sorry, but growing illegal weed in our public lands is no different than planting it in my own back yard. I should be able to enjoy all the public lands which are open to us the same as I can enjoy my own back yard.

 

Caching is a family activity. What are you telling your children if you look the other way when somebody is doing something which could harm or kill others (even if it is the drug itself)? What if another family is hurt because you didn't report the illegal site? Here in Northern Califoria are we to allow the Mexican Mafia marijuana gardens to continue their takeover of public lands?

 

If somebody passes me at 100mph: unless a cop is nearby he's gone and will do it another day until he kills himself (and hopefully not others) then the problem has taken care of itself. Meanwhile, yes, make that phone call. Maybe you can get that nut off the road!

 

Somebody cheating on taxes: They are hurting themselves and not out to hurt or kill others.

 

As for the (only) 12 plants....Was that all that were viewed before leaving (more over the hill?)? The owner of those 12 plants should have choosen another non-public place to grow thier stash. Are they the one who may be high on their private stash and doing 100mph on the roads? As far as I know the same laws apply to him and I will report it.

 

This is a nation of laws. Way too many people look the other way. Let's keep our public lands safe for our families and safe for caching.

 

I respect your position but I think that you are being a little dramatic.

 

12 plants, as it has been pointed out, is hardly a commercial endeavor. It would be extremely unlikely that the grower is armed and dangerous and the perils previously mentioned were a factor. What if the 12 plants were for a glaucoma patients personal use? I know, it is still illegal right?

 

As for the guy going 100mph high on their private stash. This indicates that you really don't know very much about the subject other than it is illegal. Working with that level of knowledge can lead to a lot of misunderstanding.

 

As for the tax cheater only hurting themselves? Think about that one for a minute. Your argument was that it was illegal. Did you turn your buddies in for cheating on a spelling test in school too?

 

We are a nation of laws yes. We also have people to enforce those laws. My point is this: This isn't Geocaching where it is up to the players to police themselves. It is not our sworn duty as Americans to turn in our neighbor for stealing cable. What are teaching our children if we run around blowing the whistle on everybody?

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If there weren't thousands of acres of public land available to me to recreate on, I suppose I could see this point. I elect to treat this the same as any other dangerous area I run across in the outback. If an area is known to have overgrown lava tubes, I avoid it. Very active pig hunting area, I move on. Same with this.

 

While I don't judge those who elect to be proactive and take it upon themselves to see that justice is served for all the wrong they encounter, my free time is limited and precious to me. I don't consider enforcement of the war on drugs as recreation or even the least bit satisfying.

 

I guess I do not lump natural/legal and unnatural/illegal dangers into the same category. As someone else said in another post here, simply leaving the problem like it never was there is a cop out. And how would I feel if I read in the paper the following week that some other nature explorer was shot or something because he stumbled across this while the owners were there?

 

I'm not some vigilante that is out to right all wrongs. Like you my free time is precious. Hell, with my school-work-family schedule, it might be even more precious. But I feel this may have pushed the limits for me.

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If there weren't thousands of acres of public land available to me to recreate on, I suppose I could see this point. I elect to treat this the same as any other dangerous area I run across in the outback. If an area is known to have overgrown lava tubes, I avoid it. Very active pig hunting area, I move on. Same with this.

 

While I don't judge those who elect to be proactive and take it upon themselves to see that justice is served for all the wrong they encounter, my free time is limited and precious to me. I don't consider enforcement of the war on drugs as recreation or even the least bit satisfying.

 

I guess I do not lump natural/legal and unnatural/illegal dangers into the same category. As someone else said in another post here, simply leaving the problem like it never was there is a cop out. And how would I feel if I read in the paper the following week that some other nature explorer was shot or something because he stumbled across this while the owners were there?

 

I'm not some vigilante that is out to right all wrongs. Like you my free time is precious. Hell, with my school-work-family schedule, it might be even more precious. But I feel this may have pushed the limits for me.

 

Well, you did ask the question as if you didn't already know the answer to it.

 

All I am saying is that this boils down to individual choice and the particular situation. You might have a lot of trouble with pot growers shooting and killing hikers, we don't where I live. You might feel some civic duty to report all suspicious behavior where ever you go, I don't. You might see a dozen pot plants as the root of all evil, others might look at it differently. It is entirely possible that you were not dealing with an armed and dangerous Columbian pot growing ring that is hell bent on cultivating it to sell outside elementary schools. There are legitimate medicinal uses for the plant and some people cannot get by without it while they can't afford the commercial product that is sold by prescription.

 

For me, I would have had to seen what you are asking about with my own two eyes before I could say that I would universally report it. Surely you agree that I am entitled to this preference without someone passing judgment and calling it a cop out?

Edited by Team GeoBlast
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Don't snoop around the field. Backtrack exactly the way you came. We've found several booby trapped fields protected with shotguns rigged with trip wires, punji pits, dead falls, and others. We've also found them protected by guards and trained attack dogs. It's not unusual for the growers to "seed" their plots using $1 bills scattered around the area. That way if someone picks up the money they know someone has been there.

It can be very dangerous. Not something to mess around with. Doesn't matter at all what your feelings are one way or the other about if it should be legalized or whatever. A trip wired shotgun, punji pit, and a trained pit bull don't ask your political beliefs. Some of these people will kill you - dead and forever.

WOW! There must be shotgun-blasted punji-pit-holed bulldog-bit unfortunate souls lying hither and tither throughout the woods since this booby-trapping happens so frequently!

 

I'm not in the business, on either side, and admittedly don't watch much news, but I have never heard of any innocent being wounded by booby-trapped pot fields.

 

I wonder if this is one of those things that has happened, can happen, is extremely unlikely to happen, but makes for great law-enforcement scare stories?

 

Should you report it? Ask yourself this question. If the field you come upon is boobytrapped (and you most likely would never know it unless you set off a trap), you decide because you think pot should be legalized or that you don't have any right messing with someone else's business so you don't report it, and then later on some young kid or innocent family hiking thru the area is killed or seriously maimed because you didn't report it so it could be removed. You are responsible they were killed or seriously injured because you didn't report it. Is that something you would be proud to tell your friends and family?

You gotta be kidding, right?

 

Leave it alone, go about your business, it won't traumatize your kids... though you might by developing a case of the leaping fantods over discovering it. If your kids are old enough to recognize it without your pointing it out, watch out that they don't drag some to the barn for drying.

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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We've never come across any ourselves. However, if we did, we most likely would take a moment to admire the beauty of the plant (has anyone ever really looked at one of these plants before, they really are beautiful) then most likely leave the area and report to the cache owner in private what we saw so that they can decide if they want to move the cache or not.

 

As far as reporting it to the authorities...I'm on the fence with that one. :P I agree with both sides as to report or not to report.

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12 plants, as it has been pointed out, is hardly a commercial endeavor. It would be extremely unlikely that the grower is armed and dangerous and the perils previously mentioned were a factor.
First, please reread post 30. The OP wasn't referring to a location with just 12 plants.

 

Second, you are taking the position that only 'commercial' growers will protect their crops. I think that this is likely incorrect.

 

Third, the more I read your posts about Hawaii, the less it seems like a nice place to go.

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12 plants, as it has been pointed out, is hardly a commercial endeavor. It would be extremely unlikely that the grower is armed and dangerous and the perils previously mentioned were a factor.
First, please reread post 30. The OP wasn't referring to a location with just 12 plants.

 

Second, you are taking the position that only 'commercial' growers will protect their crops. I think that this is likely incorrect.

 

Third, the more I read your posts about Hawaii, the less it seems like a nice place to go.

 

Thanks for weighing in.

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...

Third, the more I read your posts about Hawaii, the less it seems like a nice place to go.

Yeah, better not go to such a wild place.

 

Better to stay home in TN where they don't do that sort of thing.

 

Oh - wait... http://www.google.com/search?q=marijuana+f...lient=firefox-a

maybe they grow more in TN than Hawaii! :P

 

Really, folks, I'm not a user of the stuff, but getting all upset that it's out there and trying to scare folks over it seems silly.

 

Do you report every crime you know about? Got a video camera on your dash to record and report speeders? They kill lots more folks than pot growers do!

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Although I'm a noob geocacher...I've spent most of my life hiking mountain trails and in forests plus kayaking streams and rivers the past few years...oh, and many thousands of miles on my mountainbike as well not to mention all the 4-wheeling in my Jeep. I'm sure my feet odometer has tens of thousands of trail miles on it.

I have NEVER seen a single pot plant growing anywhere outdoors.

Sorry to seem like a tool here, but I think if I did find a crop I'd just chuckle and move on.

I'm almost surprised I've never seen a pot plant out in the wild, I've been reading for 20+ years how it's the #1 cash crop in America.

 

And I saw on one of those news magazine shows several years ago how they use those cameras on helicopters in Hawaii...I thought that was pretty neet how the plants show up as a completely different color from almost anything else. Crazy watching the guys dangling from the choppers on ropes to cut down the plants!!

 

I remember hearing from friends that grew up in Vermont that it's a pretty common plant growing wild along streams and stuff all over the state...dunno the validity of that though, like I said, I've never seen a pot plant growing anywhere (And I've never hiked in Vermont).

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But don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge anyone who elects to aid the authorities in the enforcement of any law. I am glad that people care. But as a private citizen who pays a lot of taxes so that there are people to enforce these laws working 24/7, I reserve the right to draw the line on my own involvement with a clear conscious.

So if you don't report a field that's boobytrapped and the next cacher with small kids happen to get injured or killed then you don't feel any responsibility for not reporting?

We don't really care what your personal beliefs are on pot but at least we know where your morals are at anyway.

 

Some of the advice, if not all is good but I think people are being a little melodramatic here.

 

He said there were 12 plants. This is just some stoners garden that you stumbled upon. I seriously doubt anyone is booby trapping 12 plants. Certainly not with $400+ shot guns.

Melodramatic? Let's be practical and realistic. This is what's out there. Who said anything about $400 shotguns. All the boobytrapped shotguns we've found were single shots, probably less than $100 on the used market.

And we've found fewer than 12 plants in a plot that were boobytrapped. The most common method was punji pits. Those will really mess up your day.

 

I respect your position but I think that you are being a little dramatic.

 

12 plants, as it has been pointed out, is hardly a commercial endeavor. It would be extremely unlikely that the grower is armed and dangerous and the perils previously mentioned were a factor. What if the 12 plants were for a glaucoma patients personal use? I know, it is still illegal right?

How do you know 12 plants aren't a commercial endeavor? Growers don't put all their plants in one spot. They spread them around to minimize their losses in case a field is compromised.

It's not being "dramatic". I'm reporting exactly what I've found on the job.

 

WOW! There must be shotgun-blasted punji-pit-holed bulldog-bit unfortunate souls lying hither and tither throughout the woods since this booby-trapping happens so frequently!

 

I'm not in the business, on either side, and admittedly don't watch much news, but I have never heard of any innocent being wounded by booby-trapped pot fields.

Well then that explains it. Since you haven't heard of it I guess that means it doesn't happen. :P

However, if you were in the LE network then you would have all the reports to read of actual boobytrapped fields that have been found. Pretty much anymore then only intel reports being sent out are when the boobytraps are different than what's normally found or the grows are somehow changed.

 

I wonder if this is one of those things that has happened, can happen, is extremely unlikely to happen, but makes for great law-enforcement scare stories?

We would usually find 2-3 fields a year in our area and I'll bet we didn't find them all.

Scare tactics? Try approaching a field to find a trip wire. Why don't you tell me about scare tactics then.

 

Leave it alone, go about your business, it won't traumatize your kids... though you might by developing a case of the leaping fantods over discovering it. If your kids are old enough to recognize it without your pointing it out, watch out that they don't drag some to the barn for drying.

You've got to be kidding right? Do you think all cachers take kids out to hunt caches that know what pot looks like? Do you think the family with that 5 year old knows what a trip wire looks like, or is watching for the punji pit?

 

I don't want to make it sound as if every pot field you come across is boobytrapped. Most aren't. But which ones aren't? Will you know? Or will you find out in time? You won't know. And if you think it doesn't happen then you really won't know and maybe you'll be lucky enough not to find out. We were trained to look for boobytrapped fields. We knew what to look for and when approaching them we were very aware to be watchful. Are you? If you were then you wouldn't be posting the stuff you have. It's not likely you're watching for them because when you're out caching you're not thinking that the field you just stepped in might be trapped, you're concerned which way your arrow is pointing to the cache. Those are the facts. I've seen them enough times. Not scare tactics, not made up stories. Unfortunately it's a fact of life in today's world, sad as it may be.

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... I don't want to make it sound as if every pot field you come across is boobytrapped. Most aren't. But which ones aren't? Will you know? Or will you find out in time? You won't know...

And that was my sole point... most aren't. And no, the average citizen like me won't know how to tell if one is. But statistics can help us make some assumptions which might guide our actions.

 

The thread is about 'What should you do...' and the only answer can be 'you make a judgment call' based on the facts as you know them and your personal politics and beliefs.

 

Life is risky. All parts of it.

 

We analyze and quantify risk by compiling statistics and using them to identify and mitigate real risk. Conversely we learn which risks are minimal, acceptable, and unavoidable.

 

A superficial Google search found an article which said that 18 police officers were killed in booby-trapped pot fields in 2003. That's terrible. One injured is unacceptable, eighteen killed is tragic. I would strongly support the death penalty for anyone found to have booby-trapped a pot farm to kill or maim whoever happened to come upon it.

 

Eighteen men and women doing the job we ask them to do dead due to some potheads who desire to grow an illegal crop is totally unacceptable. It's hard to put a number like that in perspective... emotionally it just can't be done.

 

Statistically, however, it can. Statistics are the foundation of risk assessment, and risk assessment is the foundation for most of our decisions. To make good choices we must know something about that risk.

 

Other articles found indicate that upwards of one million pot plants were found and destroyed that same year. I did not see a guesstimate of how many seperate farm plots that number involved, but I think it's safe to say "a lot". And the number of plots found, destroyed and publicized by law enforcement is likely only a minute fraction of all that is out there.

 

So the situation is this - there are a lot of pot plants being grown in a lot of plots large and small all over the place. A few are booby-trapped.

 

There are thousands of various types of Police responsible for finding and eliminating the scourge. A few have been injured or killed. Google also revealed civilian injuries and deaths in booby-trapped pot plots.

 

Determining a percentage of Americans killed or injured by booby-trapped pot plots out of all the folks who go in the woods is impossible, but I will go out on a limb and say that it's a very small fraction of one percent. Narrowing it down, the number of people who discover pot plots and are injured or killed by booby-traps, again I am guessing here, would still only be a small fraction. Narrow that down to the number of geocachers who find and are injured or killed by pot plot booby-traps and I think it's safe to say that it's down at or close to zero.

 

Without having real numbers to work with it does not appear that the risk is very high (excuse the pun) at all.

 

So, we're geocaching and we find some pot plants. What, statistically, is the risk that we'll be injured or killed by a booby-trap or stoned pot farmer with a machine gun? Almost none. Far less than, say, bumping into a dead tree in those woods and having the top break and fall on you.

 

Reporting the pot, then, is an emotional and perhaps political personal decision, but not one based on any real risk of danger.

 

As far as 'being responsible' for someone getting hurt in a pot field that you saw and did not report, the relevant corollary question has been repeatedly ignored: If you see a speeder and don't report him and he crashes and kills someone, are you responsible? There is a far higher chance that the speeder will hurt someone than the booby-trapped pot field, and most of us know that, so shouldn't we all report every speeder?

 

So, for me, my answer stands... keep on caching and don't sweat the small stuff. But please do remove any fish-hooks you find hanging from trees!

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Although I'm a noob geocacher...I've spent most of my life hiking mountain trails and in forests plus kayaking streams and rivers the past few years...oh, and many thousands of miles on my mountainbike as well not to mention all the 4-wheeling in my Jeep. I'm sure my feet odometer has tens of thousands of trail miles on it.

I have NEVER seen a single pot plant growing anywhere outdoors. . .

. . .I'm almost surprised I've never seen a pot plant out in the wild, I've been reading for 20+ years how it's the #1 cash crop in America.

 

And I saw on one of those news magazine shows several years ago how they use those cameras on helicopters in Hawaii...I thought that was pretty neet how the plants show up as a completely different color from almost anything else. Crazy watching the guys dangling from the choppers on ropes to cut down the plants!!

 

. . .like I said, I've never seen a pot plant growing anywhere (And I've never hiked in Vermont).

You make some good points. I have hunted many hundreds of geocaches, many of them in rural and wilderness areas, across Maryland and surrounding states, and have also hunted a much smaller number of caches, many involving hiking, in more distant states which include California, Utah, Colorado, Idaho, Wyoming, Texas, Arizona, Wisconsin, New York and New Jersey, and have never encountered a single pot plant. We live in a large forested wilderness area in Western Maryland surrounded by two wilderness state parks and a large county/state wilderness forest area, and Sue and I hike these mountains and forests regularly, for a number of reasons (including geocaching), and I have never encountered a single pot plant. I spend many days of my life each year hiking in rugged wilderness terrain in Utah, Colorado and Arizona on my research field trips, and at times using chartered helicopters for close-up aerial surveys of geological features, all in search of abandoned mines and various minerals and ores for my research work, and again, have never encountered a single pot plant.

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A superficial Google search found an article which said that 18 police officers were killed in booby-trapped pot fields in 2003. That's terrible. One injured is unacceptable, eighteen killed is tragic. I would strongly support the death penalty for anyone found to have booby-trapped a pot farm to kill or maim whoever happened to come upon it.

Your stats only include those killed. How many more were injured? How many innocent people were killed or injured? A lot more than the 18.

 

If you see a speeder and don't report him and he crashes and kills someone, are you responsible? There is a far higher chance that the speeder will hurt someone than the booby-trapped pot field, and most of us know that, so shouldn't we all report every speeder?

Your speeding argument, as many lives as are taken each year, is a non sequitur because the speeder doesn't speed with the intention of killing or maiming. You are missing the one critical factor in criminal prosecution - intent. The speeder doesn't intend to kill or maim. The guy boobytrapping his field does it for one reason only and that is to kill or maim who ever might trespass his fields. Intent - a mandatory requirement in criminal cases.

Your speeder is not a rational or pertinent scenario. A better argument would be if you saw a man with a gun walk into a bank - would you report it?

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Although I'm a noob geocacher...I've spent most of my life hiking mountain trails and in forests plus kayaking streams and rivers the past few years...oh, and many thousands of miles on my mountainbike as well not to mention all the 4-wheeling in my Jeep. I'm sure my feet odometer has tens of thousands of trail miles on it.

I have NEVER seen a single pot plant growing anywhere outdoors.

. . .I'm almost surprised I've never seen a pot plant out in the wild, I've been reading for 20+ years how it's the #1 cash crop in America..

You make some good points. I have hunted many hundreds of geocaches, many of them in rural and wilderness areas, across Maryland and surrounding states, and have also hunted a much smaller number of caches, many involving hiking, in more distant states which include California, Utah, Colorado, Idaho, Wyoming, Texas, Arizona, Wisconsin, New York and New Jersey, and have never encountered a single pot plant.

You guys either weren't looking or you're looking in the wrong places. Come on out to IL in the late summer and I'll show you plenty of pot growing. Most grows wild and is referred to as ditch weed. It can be found along most river and creek banks, rural ditches, and tree lines. We did fly overs every year. You can spot it easily from the air. It sticks out like a pimple on the end of your nose. Just has a different shade of green from the surrounding plants.

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Although I'm a noob geocacher...I've spent most of my life hiking mountain trails and in forests plus kayaking streams and rivers the past few years...oh, and many thousands of miles on my mountainbike as well not to mention all the 4-wheeling in my Jeep. I'm sure my feet odometer has tens of thousands of trail miles on it.

I have NEVER seen a single pot plant growing anywhere outdoors.

. . .I'm almost surprised I've never seen a pot plant out in the wild, I've been reading for 20+ years how it's the #1 cash crop in America..

You make some good points. I have hunted many hundreds of geocaches, many of them in rural and wilderness areas, across Maryland and surrounding states, and have also hunted a much smaller number of caches, many involving hiking, in more distant states which include California, Utah, Colorado, Idaho, Wyoming, Texas, Arizona, Wisconsin, New York and New Jersey, and have never encountered a single pot plant.

You guys either weren't looking or you're looking in the wrong places. Come on out to IL in the late summer and I'll show you plenty of pot growing. Most grows wild and is referred to as ditch weed. It can be found along most river and creek banks, rural ditches, and tree lines. We did fly overs every year. You can spot it easily from the air. It sticks out like a pimple on the end of your nose. Just has a different shade of green from the surrounding plants.

Funny, but your tale of finding the pot plants growing wild reminds me of another plant! As an R&D scientist, I sometimes need wild hops (Humulus lupulus) plants for my antioxidant research, and a few years ago, to my delight, I found an old guy locally who was a homebrew beer brewmaster par excellence, and it turned out that he knew all about wild hops because of his interest in making fine homebrewed beer. He proceeded to share his secret wild hops-hunting knowledge with me, and he informed me that I could find wild hops growing in this area, and that I would find it "...along most river and creek banks, rural ditches, and tree lines", which were your words exactly, and, sure enough, he was right!

 

BTW, I suspect that the reason you have so much wild cannabis/hemp growing in Illinois is because hemp was farmed extensively in some of the Midwest and Great Plains states in the early 20th century and earlier; it was used for a number of industrial purposes.

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BTW, I suspect that the reason you have so much wild cannabis/hemp growing in Illinois is because hemp was farmed extensively in some of the Midwest and Great Plains states in the early 20th century and earlier; it was used for a number of industrial purposes.

 

Washington and Jefferson were among some of those that owned hemp plantations.

Dupont lobbied the government to make it illegal to eliminate the tried and true competition for their new nylon rope.

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TGB: But don't get me wrong, I don't begrudge anyone who elects to aid the authorities in the enforcement of any law. I am glad that people care. But as a private citizen who pays a lot of taxes so that there are people to enforce these laws working 24/7, I reserve the right to draw the line on my own involvement with a clear conscious.

 

WadCutter: So if you don't report a field that's boobytrapped and the next cacher with small kids happen to get injured or killed then you don't feel any responsibility for not reporting?

We don't really care what your personal beliefs are on pot but at least we know where your morals are at anyway.

 

First let me repeat again that I respect your background and the work you do. I am glad that we have people that are so passionate like yourself doing your job. It makes me feel safer and better protected.

 

This thread asked the question of what I would do if I encountered a illegal plants while caching. I think I was pretty clear that my answer really depended on several factors. I know it disappoints you, but there are situations where I think I would just move on and not lose any sleep over it.

 

However, you just added a very new and fairly dramatic twist to this by stating that I just said I would not report a booby trapped field that small children would encounter. Then you took an astronomical leap and questioned my morals based on the scenario you just made up. I sincerely hope you don't use this type of fact finding in your work because if you do.... there's probably a ton of innocent folks in jail.

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Have any of you ran into a growing operation, big or small, while out looking for a cache? What would you do? Ignore it? Leave the area? Call authorities? I found a local spot on public land where someone has a dozen or more plants growing. These plants are in a cache area, and it is almost impossible to not find them while searching. I took my son and left the area.

 

It's not so much that I am against pot. I don't do it, but what you do in the privacy of you own home is none of my business. But when you are using public land to do this, and it interferes with my recreation, it kind of irks me. And you never know how defensive (or offensive) a grower might be if he caught you around his plants. What would you do?

 

Just post the coordinates of the plants on another message board local to your area anonymously and within a few days the plants should disappear. :D

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