What is the center of the street?

[andylphoto]

Yes, I know that sounds like a stupid question. I recovered a station two years ago, RK0452 but did not submit a log to the NGS because the USPSQD had logged it the year before. Over the past year, however, the streets referenced in the description have been realigned slightly. The main street (to the right in the photo in my log) has been changed from 4 lanes to 2 lanes with a turn lane at this location. The sign in the photo (and description) has also been removed, thereby eliminating or changing all references. (For reference, my photo is looking east.)

 

I recovered this mark again this week and have made some measurements from the current surroundings to submit a recovery to the NGS. Now for the question. The current description references the centers of both streets, but both have been moved/narrowed/widened. My assumption is that the measurements should be made from the center of the paved/curbed area. The question arises because the "center line" is not in the center of the street. Washington Street, for example, previously had a center line. It now has one eastbound lane and a left turn lane for eastbound traffic, and one westbound lane. So the double yellow "center line" is only a third of the way into the street. Seventh street (visible on the left side of my photo) comes to a "T" at this intersection, and at some point it got itself a right turn & left turn lane. You can see in the photo that the "center line" is also not in the center of this street.

 

I don't think I've recovered a mark with these circumstances. Either it's been described from the center line (in the center of the road) or from the edge of the road. Alternately, Washington is a very busy street. Would I be better submitting measurements from the inside edge of the curbs, or from the sidewalks?

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

EDIT: Obviously, I would make it clear in my report what the measurement was, but I was wondering if there was a generally "preferred" reference in a case like this.

Edited May 16, 2008 by andylphoto

[+m&h]

In our somewhat limited experience, the center line of a roadway is a line equidistant from both edges, regardless of where lines are painted. But even that can shift when a turn lane is added along one edge. If the curbing is substantial and easily identifiable as the south edge of the south curb, for example, measurements are often made from it (or them, in those useful instances when there is another curb nearby running at right angles to the first).

[mloser]

That isn't a stupid question at all. I have wondered it myself when there is a center turn lane or something else that makes the street non-proportional, but I have always used the center of the road surface, not the lanes. I have seen the edge of the road used at times but it is always vague as to whether they mean the edge of the ROAD or the BERM. I usually use it more a guide than the final word when I find it in the description.

 

If I was to redescribe the mark I would use every item available, including the road centers if it wasn't too dangerous, the curblines, any trees, signs, etc. As we all know, the more reference points the better, since time removes or changes a lot of them. I try to get at least three but have been known to add more when they are available. Looking at the Google aerial photo (which I know is out of date) I would suggest the two curblines, the tree to the northwest and the tree to the west. If you want to go crazy, measure from that "thing" in the north center of the park (fountain?). It is likely to stay there a while but appears to be 300 feet or so away and thus is less useful. Just look for things you think are unlikely to change soon and use them. Remember, there is no such thing as too many references to help find a mark.

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

From a legal standpoint (in most jurisdictions) the centerline of the street is the centerline of the public right-of-way. This can be an intangible line (similar to a property line) unless marked by either centerline, right-of-way, or other type of survey monumentation. The physical street (curb, gutter, sidewalks, and roadbed) may, or may not, be centered within that right-of-way. (Just like houses aren't always centered on the house lots.) In most suburban areas, the minor roads are built to their maximum width, however the main collector and arterial streets sometimes have growing room. Past planners knew to plan for community growth when the rights-of-way were designed, but often times, the ultimate right-of-way width was more than the community needed when the road was built. They built what they needed, but planned for expansion. That expansion, which is not always symmetrical, includes additional lanes as well as turn-outs, bus bays, turn pockets, etc., and does not always affect the centerline of the street. Sometimes additional right-of-way is acquired, but the main right-of-way centerline usually remains unchanged.

 

From a benchmarking standpoint, when the description was written, the center of the physical roadbed was most likely used. If that road has been widened, or if it's very busy now, it may be difficult to determine where that 'center' is, or was. Painted lines do not indicate a street centerline, but are only intended for traffic control, although a painted line can get you pretty close to the middle of the street. If you do find the monuments you're looking for, and want to tie it (by measurement) to a physical feature, use the curbs. While curbs do move (due to road widening) they don't move as often as a painted line in the street, which changes location every time the road is resurfaced or repainted.

 

And I'll agree with MLoser that there is no such thing as too many references.

 

- Kewaneh

Edited May 16, 2008 by Kewaneh & Shark

[Bill93]

Even two lane paved roads aren't necessarily perfectly symmetrical. This one was paved in sections with the crack 5 inches off center.

[Z15]

Since the to reach description is to aide the average person in finding the mark, use the C/L of the traveled road, be it the painted line, crown or a split of the gravel road etc.

Edited May 16, 2008 by Z15

[AZcachemeister]

An interesting discussion!

I always thought the center was...well...the center!

The middle as determined by the curbs, or the edges of the pavement.

Nonetheless, I have seen situations where the roadway has been widened asymmetrically. This can really make the old to-reach a bit difficult to follow.

Given that most of us regular folks do not have access to the actual right-of-way boundaries, I would use the current curb-to-curb, or edge-to-edge measurements in writing a new to-reach.

Echoing the previous statements that it is really difficult to have too many ties (referenced measurements).

[68-eldo]

In my area there are “street monuments”. These are there to help define the right of way. I find these monuments at each intersection and the start/end of any curve in the road. They are under a metal cover about 6 inches in diameter with a label on the top. I think they mark the center of the right of way. I’ve seen surveyors use these as a starting point when surveying property boundaries.

 

If you can find one of those in the street that would be an ideal reference point.

 

Just a suggestion.

Edited May 17, 2008 by 68-eldo

[andylphoto]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll try to get a good measurement from the center of the street, but also add measurements from the curb & sidewalk.