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Below cast iron water main covers?


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Did a little caching between chores recently and one cache I found was a medicine bottle just tossed into the sand under a cast iron water valve cover. This isn't like a manhole cover, these are the ones that are about 6-8" wide and around a foot long, for the main shutoff water valve for a house or small business. It's not easy getting this cover off and felt there might be some people a little hessitant on pulling a water main cover off to look for a cache. Just wanted to know if this has come up and if this is an acceptable hiding technique. Also I think the first legit person that opens this to access the valve will toss the hide away so I don't see this as a real secure hiding spot.

 

T'anks!

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Clearly private property so the real issue here is one of permission. Around here, the city owns those covers and they rest (primarily) on non-city property. Seems to me you need permission of both parties.

 

Also, speaking personally, I have made the decison not to look in such places for caches. I don't like taking apart municipal property to find a cache. I believe we are meant to stay out of such things.

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Did a little caching between chores recently and one cache I found was a medicine bottle just tossed into the sand under a cast iron water valve cover. This isn't like a manhole cover, these are the ones that are about 6-8" wide and around a foot long, for the main shutoff water valve for a house or small business. It's not easy getting this cover off and felt there might be some people a little hessitant on pulling a water main cover off to look for a cache. Just wanted to know if this has come up and if this is an acceptable hiding technique. Also I think the first legit person that opens this to access the valve will toss the hide away so I don't see this as a real secure hiding spot.

 

T'anks!

 

1) The equipment belongs to others and you are opening it up to get the cache. That's not kosher.

2) Often they are in high visibility spots. While that can be ok, it's a good way to get someone to report the cachers behavior and generate a LEO responce.

3) They control water supply and so routine maintance can find the cache and have it come up MIA.

 

All in all, not the best spot.

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1) The equipment belongs to others and you are opening it up to get the cache. That's not kosher.
I felt a little odd doing it but didn't see any other place to look. It's at the end of a circle court road that will someday have businesses on it but for now is vacant. Nothing around for now.

 

2) Often they are in high visibility spots. While that can be ok, it's a good way to get someone to report the cachers behavior and generate a LEO responce.
Agreed on that topic, too. The biggest negative I saw in it is the next cache was the same cacher and a similar location so the first thing I did was yank the water main cover off and poke around. Probably not a good habit to have someone pick up.

 

3) They control water supply and so routine maintance can find the cache and have it come up MIA. All in all, not the best spot.
My thoughts exactly. Opening up a water main cover to work on it and finding a perscription pill bottle inside would definitely alert someone that the pill bottle didn't belong and needs to be disposed of or somehow handled. Would be one thing if it was camoed somehow to blend in, but just tossed under the cover to me has "someday MIA" written all over it.

 

And another worry would be if they opened it, saw what it was, and then alerted the authorities that cachers are gaining access under water main covers to play a game would give GC a(nother) black eye.

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Did a little caching between chores recently and one cache I found was a medicine bottle just tossed into the sand under a cast iron water valve cover. This isn't like a manhole cover, these are the ones that are about 6-8" wide and around a foot long, for the main shutoff water valve for a house or small business. It's not easy getting this cover off and felt there might be some people a little hessitant on pulling a water main cover off to look for a cache. Just wanted to know if this has come up and if this is an acceptable hiding technique. Also I think the first legit person that opens this to access the valve will toss the hide away so I don't see this as a real secure hiding spot.

 

T'anks!

My vote is that this is a big NO-NO, and for several reasons, the foremost of which is the fact that it involves needing to manipulate a fabricated doorway, hatch or cover that clearly covers and protects critical city public works property, namely a valve. I would never open such a cover, and, if someone were spotted doing so, it could look very suspicious and could forseeably cause all sorts of problems.

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Did a little caching between chores recently and one cache I found was a medicine bottle just tossed into the sand under a cast iron water valve cover. This isn't like a manhole cover, these are the ones that are about 6-8" wide and around a foot long, for the main shutoff water valve for a house or small business. It's not easy getting this cover off and felt there might be some people a little hessitant on pulling a water main cover off to look for a cache. Just wanted to know if this has come up and if this is an acceptable hiding technique. Also I think the first legit person that opens this to access the valve will toss the hide away so I don't see this as a real secure hiding spot.

 

T'anks!

My vote is that this is a big NO-NO, and for several reasons, the foremost of which is the fact that it involves needing to manipulate a fabricated doorway, hatch or cover that clearly covers and protects critical city public works property, namely a valve. I would never open such a cover, and, if someone were spotted doing so, it could look very suspicious and could forseeably cause all sorts of problems.

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My vote is that this is a big NO-NO....
I guess this leads into a question of how to handle this. I am not a complainer and don't want to run around pointing fingers and emailing reviewers (even though some in the area are). The couple times I have run across things like this I just privately contact the cache owner, mainly because of pride or somehow protecting the integrity of the game. I know some people just blast the owner in a log and write the reviewer... not my style. How do you all handle these things, especially when they are just borderline?
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It's a poor location for a geocache.

 

In more ways than one!

 

Ya' think? I wonder if there are any ankle-biting pooh-pooh'ers out there, like there are for keyholders on transformers? :)

 

Seriously though, I'd email the cache owner personally. And I'll say 5:1 it's a kid who did it. :)

Edited by TheWhiteUrkel
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My vote is that this is a big NO-NO....
I guess this leads into a question of how to handle this. I am not a complainer and don't want to run around pointing fingers and emailing reviewers (even though some in the area are). The couple times I have run across things like this I just privately contact the cache owner, mainly because of pride or somehow protecting the integrity of the game. I know some people just blast the owner in a log and write the reviewer... not my style. How do you all handle these things, especially when they are just borderline?

 

Email the cache owner your concerns. Nicely. And call it a day. I've seen caches in valve boxes with the land onwers permission. Those were a non issue. If I place a cache in my own meter box, it's a non issue. In the road? Even with permission it's got other problems. Well worth an email.

 

Don't take them getting defensive personally. It is their work and they will feel the need to defend it. The goal is to get them to thinking about it. A lot of folks need to get past the knee jerk before their brains engage.

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2) Often they are in high visibility spots. While that can be ok, it's a good way to get someone to report the cachers behavior and generate a LEO responce.
Agreed on that topic, too. The biggest negative I saw in it is the next cache was the same cacher and a similar location so the first thing I did was yank the water main cover off and poke around. Probably not a good habit to have someone pick up.

 

So, you found one like this and went to the next thinking it might be the same type, even opening another cover?? Funny, where have I seen this type of reaction mentioned before only to be "pooh-poohed" as ignorance of the cacher? Sounds like (IMHO) cachers DO learn to expect repeats of certain hide types...hmmmmmm....

 

On topic....bad idea. In Vegas, those covers are in front of the houses right on the sidewalk. I know I'd be awful concerned to see someone prying open my or my neighbor's cover, especially with all the craziness going on in the world! As was mentioned, these are the property of the water company and are furnishing water to a house or business. Someone poking around in those could easily attract the wrong attention!

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It's a poor location for a geocache.

 

In more ways than one!

 

Ya' think? I wonder if there are any ankle-biting pooh-pooh'ers out there, like there are for keyholders on transformers? :)

 

 

Now wait a second....live power makes the game much more interesting!! :)

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Now wait a second....live power makes the game much more interesting!! :)
Agreed, but without a live web cam nearby the chance of actually capturing the Kodak moment is quite slim... B)

 

I did email the cache owner and explained my concerns and the potential for damage to the local geocaching community (especially since the county we are in is quite relaxed about GC but the neighboring county is as tight as tight can get). He replied back and thanked me for letting him know, said he had scoped out some other hiding spots nearby and would check into them again now. Very receptive and understanding :)

 

Thanks for the help!

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My vote is that this is a big NO-NO....
I guess this leads into a question of how to handle this. I am not a complainer and don't want to run around pointing fingers and emailing reviewers (even though some in the area are). The couple times I have run across things like this I just privately contact the cache owner, mainly because of pride or somehow protecting the integrity of the game. I know some people just blast the owner in a log and write the reviewer... not my style. How do you all handle these things, especially when they are just borderline?

I would log a Should Be Archived note and let the cache owner explain to the Reviewer why he doesn't have to follow the guidelines.

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My vote is that this is a big NO-NO....
I guess this leads into a question of how to handle this. I am not a complainer and don't want to run around pointing fingers and emailing reviewers (even though some in the area are). The couple times I have run across things like this I just privately contact the cache owner, mainly because of pride or somehow protecting the integrity of the game. I know some people just blast the owner in a log and write the reviewer... not my style. How do you all handle these things, especially when they are just borderline?

I would log a Should Be Archived note and let the cache owner explain to the Reviewer why he doesn't have to follow the guidelines.

 

Just food for thought. Should we have all gaurdrail caches archived too. No one in there right mind would give premission for one to be there either. :)

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My vote is that this is a big NO-NO....
I guess this leads into a question of how to handle this. I am not a complainer and don't want to run around pointing fingers and emailing reviewers (even though some in the area are). The couple times I have run across things like this I just privately contact the cache owner, mainly because of pride or somehow protecting the integrity of the game. I know some people just blast the owner in a log and write the reviewer... not my style. How do you all handle these things, especially when they are just borderline?

I would log a Should Be Archived note and let the cache owner explain to the Reviewer why he doesn't have to follow the guidelines.

I totally agree. Unacceptable location with all the stuff going on now days, just will give geocaching a bad name if the authorities get called out.

Edited by LDove
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Just food for thought. Should we have all gaurdrail caches archived too. No one in there right mind would give premission for one to be there either. :D
I have hung around a guard rail with muggles all around with no issue, don't think I could pop open a water main cover with a single muggle around without attracting unwanted attention.

 

"What are you doing inside that water main cover, son?

 

"Finding this little pill bottle. It's a secret game called geocaching!"

 

"Hmmm.... put down the pill bottle, turn around and place your hands on the hood of the car...."

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I totally agree. Unacceptable location with all the stuff going on now days, just will give geocaching a bad name if the authorities get called out.
I agree it's an innappropriate spot but I'd rather handle it with diplomacy and reason then just take out the sword and lop off their hands. Too many ticked off angry people running around in this world already then to unnecessarily create another one from just because of their lack of knowledge. Email was sent and it's being handled... no one mad, no one defensive, no one turned off about geocaching.
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Did a little caching between chores recently and one cache I found was a medicine bottle just tossed into the sand under a cast iron water valve cover. This isn't like a manhole cover, these are the ones that are about 6-8" wide and around a foot long, for the main shutoff water valve for a house or small business. It's not easy getting this cover off and felt there might be some people a little hessitant on pulling a water main cover off to look for a cache. Just wanted to know if this has come up and if this is an acceptable hiding technique. Also I think the first legit person that opens this to access the valve will toss the hide away so I don't see this as a real secure hiding spot.

 

T'anks!

 

It's a poor location for a geocache.

This is a poor location for a geocache. In one of your posts, you dais that you did not actually open it to retreive what you thought to be the geocache, and that it was the only likely spot. What you aren't remembering is that coordinates are often far from the real location, possibly 100+ feet away. If this is the case, what you came across could have just been junk or trash that rolled/washed/whatever into this spot, and seeing as micros ofter are pill bottles you may have been mistaken. I would make sure that the location you came across is actually the geocache, for some reason I highly doubt that what you found is a geocache.

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I work for a water department and I can tell you that if I see anyone other than employees messing around with valves and valve boxes it is not gonna be a good day for that person. With all of the homeland security stuff a water system is NOT a thing you want to mess with. Last time we had some one "mess" with a valve it cost thte guy about $1000 in fines and fees. I know that cachers would not be opening or closing the valve but that is a risk I would not take. Also, as soon as the field crew opened the lid and saw the container, marked or not, they would throw it away and not even think twice.

 

Not cool...

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I work for a water department and I can tell you that if I see anyone other than employees messing around with valves and valve boxes it is not gonna be a good day for that person. With all of the homeland security stuff a water system is NOT a thing you want to mess with. Last time we had some one "mess" with a valve it cost thte guy about $1000 in fines and fees. I know that cachers would not be opening or closing the valve but that is a risk I would not take. Also, as soon as the field crew opened the lid and saw the container, marked or not, they would throw it away and not even think twice.

 

Not cool...

 

An electrician for the city would say the same for electrical box caches and LPC's

 

City groundskeepers would say the same for sprinkler caches.

 

DOT employees would say the same for guardrail caches.

 

I can do this all day........

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This is a poor location for a geocache. In one of your posts, you dais that you did not actually open it to retreive what you thought to be the geocache, and that it was the only likely spot. What you aren't remembering is that coordinates are often far from the real location, possibly 100+ feet away. If this is the case, what you came across could have just been junk or trash that rolled/washed/whatever into this spot, and seeing as micros ofter are pill bottles you may have been mistaken. I would make sure that the location you came across is actually the geocache, for some reason I highly doubt that what you found is a geocache.
Pill bottle had an official printed geocaching log sheet in it with other geocacher's signatures and dates on it. And I wrote the owner who has acknowledged the issue and is looking at moving it.... so in a nutshell, yeah, it was the cache :D
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I work for a water department and I can tell you that if I see anyone other than employees messing around with valves and valve boxes it is not gonna be a good day for that person. With all of the homeland security stuff a water system is NOT a thing you want to mess with. Last time we had some one "mess" with a valve it cost thte guy about $1000 in fines and fees. I know that cachers would not be opening or closing the valve but that is a risk I would not take. Also, as soon as the field crew opened the lid and saw the container, marked or not, they would throw it away and not even think twice.

 

Not cool...

 

An electrician for the city would say the same for electrical box caches and LPC's

 

City groundskeepers would say the same for sprinkler caches.

 

DOT employees would say the same for guardrail caches.

 

I can do this all day........

 

Sure you could.

 

And in every case they would be right!

 

If a cache is placed without permission on any structure where one could reasonably believe that if the property owner / maintainer found it they would object, then it doesn't belong there.

 

That lots of people do it does not make it okay.

Edited by TheAlabamaRambler
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I totally agree. Unacceptable location with all the stuff going on now days, just will give geocaching a bad name if the authorities get called out.

Too many assumptions to make that call.

I can put a cache in my water meter and we well within my rights as the owner of the land, the owner of the vault and the owner of that space. So long as I don't interfere with the function of the meter and the readings I'm good to go.

 

Bad location does not mean it cant' be done.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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I work for a water department and I can tell you that if I see anyone other than employees messing around with valves and valve boxes it is not gonna be a good day for that person. With all of the homeland security stuff a water system is NOT a thing you want to mess with. Last time we had some one "mess" with a valve it cost thte guy about $1000 in fines and fees. I know that cachers would not be opening or closing the valve but that is a risk I would not take. Also, as soon as the field crew opened the lid and saw the container, marked or not, they would throw it away and not even think twice.

 

Not cool...

Re-reading the orginal post it was the meter vault.

Normally the water department ownes the meter, probably owns the vault, but doesn't have an esclusive easment to the land.

 

The key is who's responsible for the vault? Normally the onwer is responsible for the line from the meter to the house. Their lines starts inside the vault, which gives them an interest. When I contacted the city about my vault (bad contractor during construction) and getting it fixed by raising it to match grade so it would not be buried they dropped off a chunk of HDPE pipe and wished me luck. It worked just fine. I was able to raise my vault.

 

Overall it's a bad location, but not an impossible one.

Edited by Renegade Knight
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Overall it's a bad location, but not an impossible one.
The location is the end of a little culdesac road that has little shrubs all along and around it. There is literally nothing on the whole road except field. This is a newly devloping area for small businesses but the only thing they have completed to date is the roadways. And with the market the way it is that may be all they ever complete. When you're at this spot there is nothing around for hundreds and hundreds of feet in all directions so if a muggle were around you'd be very aware. I like the spot, don't care to much for the hide technique, and surely didn't feel cozy opening the cast iron cover... but curiosity got the best of me (as it usually does).

 

Are locations like this (but not the exact hiding spot) fair game as it's property for sale (I assume, but no "for sale" signs posted and no "no tresspassing" signs either) and probably owned by some big corporate devloper that would probably take you a lot of effort to even find out who it is, let alone how to contact them for permission? It's not marked as a construction area or anything. Just street signs and stop signs and shrubs.

 

Also, I would assume that most, if not all, water main valves and all stuff like that are located on the county easement and not really on personal property, and that would make them county property and not personal property. I may be mistaken but they're always out near the roadway and the county (or whomever owns the roads) would have an easement on both sides.

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Overall it's a bad location, but not an impossible one.
...Are locations like this (but not the exact hiding spot) fair game as it's property for sale (I assume, but no "for sale" signs posted and no "no tresspassing" signs either) and probably owned by some big corporate devloper that would probably take you a lot of effort to even find out who it is, let alone how to contact them for permission?...

 

I was talking in general, not this cache in particular. If it's a vacant I think you have it right. It's the developer as owner until it sells. With the subdivision name you can go to city hall and look at the preliminary plat and get the developer name. That or just call the public works department they would know. Permissionwise there would be little incentive for the developer to allow a cache on a lot that's for sale. The undeveloped remnant (if there is one) may not be such a tough sell.

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...Also, I would assume that most, if not all, water main valves and all stuff like that are located on the county easement and not really on personal property, and that would make them county property and not personal property. I may be mistaken but they're always out near the roadway and the county (or whomever owns the roads) would have an easement on both sides.

 

I can only speak to my own experience on this.

 

Water mains tend to be under the streets. Their valves are normally in the streets. Drop a cache down one of those valve covers...it's 4' or more down and can bind the valve. Big no no here. Don't go there. I've seen irrigation run on back lot lines with valves where they cross the street (easier to repair in the street than deal with homeowners as you rip out their garden to access a valve).

 

Service lines normally have a valve in the street but that valve is buried. You would need a backhoe to get to it. A small line runs to the property and connects to a meter in the meter vault. Another line goes from the meter to the house. That line is the homeowners. The meter the water companys. The vault the water companys, but that can vary. For the town I worked with to get it fixed they were happy to let me do the digging so maybe it was mine to maintain and theirs to own.

 

Typically the meter vault is on the homeowners land. Newer subdivisions have a utility easement that allows utilitys to be placed in a strip along the edge of the lots. Phone, Power, Cable, Gas, Stormwater etc. It's a generic easment. The homeowner can do what they want so long as they don't interfere with the utilities operations. I would venture to say that if I wanted to stick a magnetic cache on a transformer vault cover or a phone riser I could. They have a right to be there, but I have a right to enjoy the use of my property.

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