Non Christians in Geocaching

[+XopherN71]

Since our other thread got derailed I would like to open up a new one where we can calmly keep our discussion going.

 

At one point we were working out details on a coin, let's start with that.

 

 

Disclaimer:

This thread is NOT up for religious debate, it's intent is to bring together people who do not have traditional Christian beliefs.

 

I would appreciate it if this thread could stay on topic and civil.

 

Thank you

[+Big Bear TC]

So what are some of the ideas for the coin. I can draw up one if you let me know what you might want on there.

[+XopherN71]

I'm still trying to think up something myself but will post it when it comes to me. I use Illustrator, what do you use?

[+XopherN71]

Here's a quick one I came up with:

[+Big Bear TC]

I'm still trying to think up something myself but will post it when it comes to me. I use Illustrator, what do you use?

I can use Illustrator, Photoshop, Indesign.

[+ncfinn]

If we are not going to discuss religious beliefs, why are my beliefs (or lack there of) important here?

[+XopherN71]

Never said that...

This thread is NOT up for religious debate, it's intent is to bring together people who do not have traditional Christian beliefs.

 

If you want to discuss religious beliefs this probably isn't the thread for you, otherwise feel free to share your thoughts. I just do not want this thread to turn into another religion bashing debate like the other one did.

Edited May 15, 2008 by XopherN71

[+va griz]

Wild suggestion:

A coin that says something like "treat all cachers like you would like to be treated". Sort of a nondenomanational idea that could appeal to all, religious or not? I would buy a couple, and I haven't bought my first coin yet.

[+XopherN71]

I like it Wonder how small the type would be Gonna try it quick and see if it fits on a 1.5" design...

 

I can see it now... "TACLYWLTBT"

Edited May 15, 2008 by XopherN71

[+MountainRacer]

I may not be explicitly welcome in this thread, but well-intentioned as I am, I've a suggestion for the motto of your coin. It may sound familiar to some of you: "An it harm none, do what ye will." (Found it while doing a research paper on Crowley.)

[Keystone]

I am moving this thread from the Organized Geocaching forum to the Geocoin Discussions forum.

 

Have fun designing your coin!

[+XopherN71]

Super, now we're stuck to just the coin topic which was just one of many things we were going to cover... oh well.

[Keystone]

Coin design discussions belong in the Geocoins forum. Moreover, Flying Spaghetti Monster is eminently well qualified to moderate a thread with this title.

 

If you want to discuss other "Non Christian" issues, feel free to open a thread in the Off Topic forum. Separate threads will serve you well.

[+XopherN71]

Works for me, thanks.

 

Alright, you heard the man... any more ideas on the coin?

Edited May 16, 2008 by XopherN71

[+minxyy]

duh thought this was a geocaching site not a 'religious/life style' debating site? Don't the guidelines state that we should be respectful to each other? If your looking for proverbs hows about 'each to there own', 'live and let live', sure there are many more but will step aside for the time being to enable you to consider the title of this thread so that it can tie in with the motto you are discussing for your coin?

best wishes

minxyy

[+XopherN71]

Please Read

 

It's been brought to my attention that the thread title may be offensive to Christians and make them feel excluded.

 

The title wasn't meant to exclude Christians but more to expand from just 'Atheists'. Fact is, I'm not real sure what I consider myself and I'm not ready to put any particular name on it (nor do I feel a need to at this time).

 

I hope that clears up any confusion.

 

Back to the topic at hand.

Edited May 16, 2008 by XopherN71

[+WRASTRO]

I have enjoyed seeing what you have come up with for coin designs. If one ever comes about I might even buy one.

 

Looking forward to seeing if you start another "Organized" thread. You need to come up with a better title though.

[+GrnXnham]

I've now read this thread and I'm still trying to figure out what the point to this is? I can't figure it out.

 

All of the coin suggestions I've seen so far are generally considered Christian values.

 

"treat all cachers like you would like to be treated"

 

is basically

 

"do unto others as you'd have others do unto you"

 

Oops! That's Christian! Can't have that!

 

So you want an anti-Christian theme on the coin? Pro-Satan?

[+fairyhoney]

I've now read this thread and I'm still trying to figure out what the point to this is? I can't figure it out.

 

All of the coin suggestions I've seen so far are generally considered Christian values.

 

"treat all cachers like you would like to be treated"

 

is basically

 

"do unto others as you'd have others do unto you"

 

Oops! That's Christian! Can't have that!

 

So you want an anti-Christian theme on the coin? Pro-Satan?

 

Did someone say . . . "SATAN"?

 

( green eggs in Graham, I noticed that the coins I saw that were won All had the little cardboard gone - I think it was for the picture )

[+XopherN71]

Thanks for your input and not debating religious beliefs!

Edited May 16, 2008 by XopherN71

[+Tschakko]

I know a coin related to the topic, just to know what´s already existing:

(even though I am christian )

[+XopherN71]

Wow, that's pretty cool!

 

Thanks for sharing Tschakko!

[+Tschakko]

Wow, that's pretty cool!

 

Thanks for sharing Tschakko!

Your welcome

 

It´s for sale again on the www.geocoinshop.de I think it´s 7,70€ a piece two kinds of metal...

[+tadpole379]

There is also one called Coexist

 

[+fairyhoney]

There is also one called Coexist

 

 

I was thinking the same thing but you beat me to it

[+WRASTRO]

Yep, that is a cool coin. Although at first I did read the second side as " track meet" and thought that was a little strange. Good to know it was just me.

[+fairyhoney]

Yep, that is a cool coin. Although at first I did read the second side as " track meet" and thought that was a little strange. Good to know it was just me.

 

Don't you mean "track meat" ?

[+WRASTRO]

Yep, that is a cool coin. Although at first I did read the second side as " track meet" and thought that was a little strange. Good to know it was just me.

 

Don't you mean "track meat" ?

 

Well yes, but I thought I would correct the spelling.

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

 

Should be 4 Red Squares.

[+Jackalgirl]

Hi there --

 

Not to be dense, but could someone explain exactly what kind of coin you're looking to design? Is it supposed to be one that celebrates religions other than Christianity? One that celebrates spirituality in general? "Non-Christian coin" sort of means "any coin that isn't specifically Christian" which is, well, most of them, isn't it? ; )

 

I'm not trying to be snarky, honest -- it's just that you're asking for inputs for designs, and I don't get the theme. Thanks!

[CLV3]

I know a coin related to the topic, just to know what´s already existing:

(even though I am christian )

 

Wow. I like the look of that coin. Sums up how I feel about religion in general. That there is room for everyone. Personally I would not mind having that coin as a keepsake if I ever found one.

[Neos2]

Hi there --

 

Not to be dense, but could someone explain exactly what kind of coin you're looking to design? Is it supposed to be one that celebrates religions other than Christianity? One that celebrates spirituality in general? "Non-Christian coin" sort of means "any coin that isn't specifically Christian" which is, well, most of them, isn't it? ; )

 

I'm not trying to be snarky, honest -- it's just that you're asking for inputs for designs, and I don't get the theme. Thanks!

To be honest, I don't know how anyone could answer that question. This thread has been bounced around the forums and the other thread on the topic was so badly derailed I don't think anyone really had a chance to even begin to discuss what it was they had in mind--or even if there was a group consensus.

 

In fact, I'm not even sure a group of like-minded people even had time to coalesce.

 

Presuming the original intent was actually to get a group of people together and give them a place to bond and begin a discussion on the idea of being a "non-christian geocacher" and exactly what that might entail...I think the entire thread should be over in the "organized caching" forums where it began...

 

Once they have established their message, then they can discuss a coin. I think the move here is premature.

[Neos2]

I've now read this thread and I'm still trying to figure out what the point to this is? I can't figure it out.

 

All of the coin suggestions I've seen so far are generally considered Christian values.

 

"treat all cachers like you would like to be treated"

 

is basically

 

"do unto others as you'd have others do unto you"

 

Oops! That's Christian! Can't have that!

 

So you want an anti-Christian theme on the coin? Pro-Satan?

Actually, that idea predates Christianity. Ancient Greek philosophers voice much the same words and ideas. It's a basic human idea of how to get along with others --Christians weren't the first people to think up ethics and morals.

 

Thales died 546 BCE ---He said “That for which we blame others, let us not do ourselves”

 

Thales may not have been the first to voice that sort of notion, but I happen to be familiar with him, from one of the courses I took in college. My prof thought it was a good idea to have science teachers learn the history of "how people began to think logically" before we went out and tried to teach other people how to think "scientifically".

[nebukatneza]

i have read this thread and didn't know what to write, cuz my english is not the best and i

don't want to hurt someone with a wrong comment or some wrong words that i've chosen.

but after checking some coins on ebay i've seen this and "just" wanted to post it here.

i was only wondering why i found this after reading this thread...

[+dark_onyx1982]

I am a non Christian, but I am not sure what this thread is for. Is it to discuss geocoins? If so, why start a non-Christian thread. Religion doesnt play a factor in geocoin discussion. Are you trying to get an idea for a geocoin that envelopes other beliefs? I guess I am unclear as to the purpose of this thread. I am interested to see where this goes.

[+Lazer]

I know a coin related to the topic, just to know what´s already existing:

(even though I am christian )

 

Wow. I like the look of that coin. Sums up how I feel about religion in general. That there is room for everyone. Personally I would not mind having that coin as a keepsake if I ever found one.

 

Those coins are sold and available at geocoinshop.de

[Cache Whisperer]

Hi there --

 

Not to be dense, but could someone explain exactly what kind of coin you're looking to design? Is it supposed to be one that celebrates religions other than Christianity? One that celebrates spirituality in general? "Non-Christian coin" sort of means "any coin that isn't specifically Christian" which is, well, most of them, isn't it? ; )

 

I'm not trying to be snarky, honest -- it's just that you're asking for inputs for designs, and I don't get the theme. Thanks!

 

My take is that they want to design a coin with a message that identifies their non Christian values instead of a religion free generic design.

 

I'm not sure why Christian values were singled out. Would this leave Islamic, Wiccan, Buddhist and other religious themes in the mix for design consideration? If so, a pictorial collage of these alternate religions would be a fine design. To place a positive non Christian phrase on the coin would be difficult as the "do unto others" analogy pointed out.

 

Is there a recognized graphic representing positive non Christian values that could be placed on the coin? Each religion has their own symbols but I don't know if there is one for "non Christian" folks other than maybe a cross with a red circle/line over it.

[+ThePetersTrio]

There are symbols for atheists, humanists and agnostics. Simply do a google search and then click on images. Many to choose from.

[+XopherN71]

Just to clarify, again... I didn't intend for this to be a coin thread it just turned out that way and got moved here. It was supposed to be for general discussion and a continuation on another thread that got severely hijacked. The coin idea wasn't mine, it was someone elses so I can't answer that question.

 

As far as the title of the thread, again... it was meant more to include more than just 'atheists' for example than to not include christians. The other thread was called 'Atheist geocachers' and some replied stating they weren't atheist but some other related belief.

[+mousekakat]

What really cracks me up here is all this talk of non-Christian values...

 

So... just what are "non-Christian" values, anyway?

 

I dunno, the whole thing seems kind of hypocritical, if you ask me.

 

Not trying to be rude, it's just how it strikes me.

 

So, what ARE non-Christian values?

 

If Christian values are to not lie, cheat, steal, murder, etc., are non-Christian values the opposite?

 

Good values, good beliefs, they don't have to have a label as Christian or otherwise. Their the basic tenets of civilized living and it's as simple as that.

 

Don't get this looking for labels stuff, sorry.

 

And... by the way, I am Christian, but I'm very open-minded and if you didn't know me, you wouldn't know it, Prince Shoko's coin was one of my very first coins traded for, and I respect and tolerate all beliefs with the exception of dark beliefs, not because they go against my own personal beliefs, but because common sense and my own conscience tells me that something with them are wrong. I don't advertise my beliefs or who I am, but if the topic comes up and I have the chance to mention it, I don't hide it, either. I'm comfortable with who I am without the need to broadcast it or attempt to enlighten people or any of that jazz, and it's as easy as that for me. I don't feel a need to do something to stand out.

 

Naomi

[+mousekakat]

*burp* went the forums!

Edited May 19, 2008 by mousekakat

[+mousekakat]

and a hiccup for good measure!

Edited May 19, 2008 by mousekakat

[+Renegade Knight]

Just to clarify, again... I didn't intend for this to be a coin thread it just turned out that way and got moved here. It was supposed to be for general discussion and a continuation on another thread that got severely hijacked. The coin idea wasn't mine, it was someone elses so I can't answer that question.

 

As far as the title of the thread, again... it was meant more to include more than just 'atheists' for example than to not include christians. The other thread was called 'Atheist geocachers' and some replied stating they weren't atheist but some other related belief.

You either need to kill this thread or focus your coin and it has become your coin by virtue of this thread.

 

Your goal so far isn't anti christian (which is a very focused coin) but inclusive of all things non Christian and I'm assuming non Jewish and Non Islamic.

 

That's a broad range of things and very hard to design a coin around.

[+ThePetersTrio]

What really cracks me up here is all this talk of non-Christian values...

 

So... just what are "non-Christian" values, anyway?

 

I dunno, the whole thing seems kind of hypocritical, if you ask me.

 

Not trying to be rude, it's just how it strikes me.

 

So, what ARE non-Christian values?

 

If Christian values are to not lie, cheat, steal, murder, etc., are non-Christian values the opposite?

 

No offense, but it makes me sad to read this Naomi. I will not speak for anyone else but for myself, I can tell you what Humanism means to me:

 

Humanism is one of those philosophies for people who think for themselves. There is no area of thought that a Humanist is afraid to challenge and explore.

 

Humanism is a philosophy focused upon human means for comprehending reality. Humanists make no claims to possess or have access to supposed transcendent knowledge.

 

Humanism is a philosophy of reason and science in the pursuit of knowledge. Therefore, when it comes to the question of the most valid means for acquiring knowledge of the world, Humanists reject arbitrary faith, authority, revelation, and altered states of consciousness.

 

Humanism is a philosophy of imagination. Humanists recognize that intuitive feelings, hunches, speculation, flashes of inspiration, emotion, altered states of consciousness, and even religious experience, while not valid means to acquire knowledge, remain useful sources of ideas that can lead us to new ways of looking at the world. These ideas, after they have been assessed rationally for their usefulness, can then be put to work, often as alternate approaches for solving problems.

 

Humanism is a philosophy for the here and now. Humanists regard human values as making sense only in the context of human life rather than in the promise of a supposed life after death.

 

Humanism is a philosophy of compassion. Humanist ethics is solely concerned with meeting human needs and answering human problems--for both the individual and society--and devotes no attention to the satisfaction of the desires of supposed theological entities.

 

Humanism is a realistic philosophy. Humanists recognize the existence of moral dilemmas and the need for careful consideration of immediate and future consequences in moral decision making.

 

Humanism is in tune with the science of today. Humanists therefore recognize that we live in a natural universe of great size and age, that we evolved on this planet over a long period of time, that there is no compelling evidence for a separable "soul," and that human beings have certain built-in needs that effectively form the basis for any human-oriented value system.

 

Humanism is in tune with today's enlightened social thought. Humanists are committed to civil liberties, human rights, church-state separation, the extension of participatory democracy not only in government but in the workplace and education, an expansion of global consciousness and exchange of products and ideas internationally, and an open-ended approach to solving social problems, an approach that allows for the testing of new alternatives.

 

Humanism is in tune with new technological developments. Humanists are willing to take part in emerging scientific and technological discoveries in order to exercise their moral influence on these revolutions as they come about, especially in the interest of protecting the environment.

 

Humanism is, in sum, a philosophy for those in love with life. Humanists take responsibility for their own lives and relish the adventure of being part of new discoveries, seeking new knowledge, exploring new options. Instead of finding solace in prefabricated answers to the great questions of life, Humanists enjoy the open-endedness of a quest and the freedom of discovery that this entails.

***********

 

I bolded the paragraphs that are the most meaningful to me.

 

I normally do not discuss my beliefs openly as I am usually attacked by people who claim to be followers of Christ and His teachings. This is what happened to me on the other thread that was closed.

 

I do not judge others for their beliefs. I do try to understand them as best I can. All I ask is that people give me the same consideration in return.

 

[+fox-and-the-hound]

I like the idea, but it's a bit broad right now. If I were to focus the common elements from all religions and beliefs that I'm aware or knowledgable of I'd say a coin focused on "KARMA" would be a good start. Most civil minded groups religious or otherwise have common goals that are all productive or positive including creation or production, unity, free debate, self awareness, education and the goal of enlightenment in all cases seems to be prevalent. So maybe an "ENLIGHTENED" or "ENLIGHTENMENT" coin would be appropriate? A coin showing that unity of many people regardless of beliefs creating something positive would be a coin I'd be interested in.

[+mousekakat]

What really cracks me up here is all this talk of non-Christian values...

 

So... just what are "non-Christian" values, anyway?

 

I dunno, the whole thing seems kind of hypocritical, if you ask me.

 

Not trying to be rude, it's just how it strikes me.

 

So, what ARE non-Christian values?

 

If Christian values are to not lie, cheat, steal, murder, etc., are non-Christian values the opposite?

 

No offense, but it makes me sad to read this Naomi. I will not speak for anyone else but for myself, I can tell you what Humanism means to me:

 

Humanism is one of those philosophies for people who think for themselves. There is no area of thought that a Humanist is afraid to challenge and explore.

 

Humanism is a philosophy focused upon human means for comprehending reality. Humanists make no claims to possess or have access to supposed transcendent knowledge.

 

Humanism is a philosophy of reason and science in the pursuit of knowledge. Therefore, when it comes to the question of the most valid means for acquiring knowledge of the world, Humanists reject arbitrary faith, authority, revelation, and altered states of consciousness.

 

Humanism is a philosophy of imagination. Humanists recognize that intuitive feelings, hunches, speculation, flashes of inspiration, emotion, altered states of consciousness, and even religious experience, while not valid means to acquire knowledge, remain useful sources of ideas that can lead us to new ways of looking at the world. These ideas, after they have been assessed rationally for their usefulness, can then be put to work, often as alternate approaches for solving problems.

 

Humanism is a philosophy for the here and now. Humanists regard human values as making sense only in the context of human life rather than in the promise of a supposed life after death.

 

Humanism is a philosophy of compassion. Humanist ethics is solely concerned with meeting human needs and answering human problems--for both the individual and society--and devotes no attention to the satisfaction of the desires of supposed theological entities.

 

Humanism is a realistic philosophy. Humanists recognize the existence of moral dilemmas and the need for careful consideration of immediate and future consequences in moral decision making.

 

Humanism is in tune with the science of today. Humanists therefore recognize that we live in a natural universe of great size and age, that we evolved on this planet over a long period of time, that there is no compelling evidence for a separable "soul," and that human beings have certain built-in needs that effectively form the basis for any human-oriented value system.

 

Humanism is in tune with today's enlightened social thought. Humanists are committed to civil liberties, human rights, church-state separation, the extension of participatory democracy not only in government but in the workplace and education, an expansion of global consciousness and exchange of products and ideas internationally, and an open-ended approach to solving social problems, an approach that allows for the testing of new alternatives.

 

Humanism is in tune with new technological developments. Humanists are willing to take part in emerging scientific and technological discoveries in order to exercise their moral influence on these revolutions as they come about, especially in the interest of protecting the environment.

 

Humanism is, in sum, a philosophy for those in love with life. Humanists take responsibility for their own lives and relish the adventure of being part of new discoveries, seeking new knowledge, exploring new options. Instead of finding solace in prefabricated answers to the great questions of life, Humanists enjoy the open-endedness of a quest and the freedom of discovery that this entails.

***********

 

I bolded the paragraphs that are the most meaningful to me.

 

I normally do not discuss my beliefs openly as I am usually attacked by people who claim to be followers of Christ and His teachings. This is what happened to me on the other thread that was closed.

 

I do not judge others for their beliefs. I do try to understand them as best I can. All I ask is that people give me the same consideration in return.

 

 

I'm sorry it made you sad, it wasn't meant as any sort of attack, just something I purely don't understand, that's all.

 

So much of what you believe you could remove Humanism and insert Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, or anything else, and it all describes the same thing. There are differences, yes, but the base moralism of them all revolves around the same thing, at least in the way that I see it.

 

Don't hurt people, play nice, share, don't steal, don't kill.

 

In so many ways it's like the poem "all I need to know about life I learned in Kindergarten" Maybe it oversimplifies things, I don't know... BUT, I can honestly say that I wasn't meaning to sound like I was attacking, and if it came across that way, my apologies!

 

All I really need to know about how to live and what to do and how to be I learned in kindergarten.

 

Wisdom was not at the top of the graduate-school mountain, but there in the sand pile at Elementary School.

 

These are the things I learned...

Share everything.

Play fair.

Don't hit people.

Put things back where you found them.

Clean up your own mess.

Don't take things that aren't yours.

Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.

Wash your hands before you eat. Flush.

Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.

Live a balanced life...learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.

Take a nap every afternoon.

When you go out into the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands, and stick together.

Be aware of wonder...Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: The roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.

[+mousekakat]

OH, and thank you for showing me a little something about how you believe! It was truly interesting and something I'll try to remember!

 

Naomi

[+fox-and-the-hound]

Since our other thread got derailed I would like to open up a new one where we can calmly keep our discussion going.

 

At one point we were working out details on a coin, let's start with that.

 

 

Disclaimer:

This thread is NOT up for religious debate, it's intent is to bring together people who do not have traditional Christian beliefs.

 

I would appreciate it if this thread could stay on topic and civil.

 

Thank you

 

I like the idea, but it's a bit broad right now. If I were to focus the common elements from all religions and beliefs that I'm aware or knowledgable of I'd say a coin focused on "KARMA" would be a good start. Most civil minded groups religious or otherwise have common goals that are all productive or positive including creation or production, unity, free debate, self awareness, education and the goal of enlightenment in all cases seems to be prevalent. So maybe an "ENLIGHTENED" or "ENLIGHTENMENT" coin would be appropriate? A coin showing that unity of many people regardless of beliefs creating something positive would be a coin I'd be interested in.

 

After a quick search it turns out the vast majority of our world is non-christian (67%) and there might be some interesting ideas available through some google searches...

 

Christianity: 2.1 billion

 

Islam: 1.5 billion

 

Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion

 

Hinduism: 900 million

 

Chinese traditional religion: 394 million

 

Buddhism: 376 million

 

primal-indigenous: 300 million

 

African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million

 

Sikhism: 23 million

 

Juche: 19 million

 

Spiritism: 15 million

 

Judaism: 14 million

 

Baha'i: 7 million

 

Jainism: 4.2 million

 

Shinto: 4 million

 

Cao Dai: 4 million

 

Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million

 

Tenrikyo: 2 million

 

Neo-Paganism: 1 million

 

Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand

 

Rastafarianism: 600 thousand

 

Scientology: 500 thousand

[+ThePetersTrio]

OH, and thank you for showing me a little something about how you believe! It was truly interesting and something I'll try to remember!

 

Naomi

 

It's cool Naomi. I guess it felt a little bit like because I had non-Christian "values" that my values were being laughed at. But I know you didn't mean it that way.

 

It's a touchy subject, I know. And I'm not a big fan of labels myself. So even I hesitate to put my beliefs into a box with a label attached. But I do have values and I do believe that I should "Do unto others..." so it that light we are here to support each other and learn from each other and that is what makes life all worthwhile to me.

 

And to Fox-and-the-hound, I love the idea of a coin based on karma and enlightenment.

[+Eartha]

If this thread is about religion, it goes into off topic.

If this thread is going to be about a coin, please get it back on topic.

I'll be checking back later.