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Cache finds, DNF & logs


Nish4

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Does "found only the empty film container, cache needs to be replaced." constitute a find ??

 

Is it up to the cache owner to make the call or is it up the cache finder ?

 

What we don't need is the next batch of new cachers to take note of these logs and replicate them as nobody has raised these questions.. :):)

 

Your opinion ?

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If my name is not written in the log sheet I will not claim a find.

 

Finding spares; black bags, lids or empty containers do not constitute a find. (After the cache is replaced you can go back to the cache and enjoy the things again of the purpose of the cache)

 

I agree with LeonW that the cache owner must make the call.

 

My two cents

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What about finding the empty container or remains of the cache, replacing it and then logging it as a find? I've seen a few old hands do that.

 

To replace a "missing / muggled" cache only with the permission of the owner. I recently had two caches which were replaced by cachers without permission, only informing in the log about the replacement. Later it was found that the actual caches were not muggled.

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This log appeared on a archived cache:

 

“the mere fact that we made the effort to get there we would like the owner to accept a find based on our photos to prove that we were there.

TFTC”

 

Mmmm TFTC (Thanks For The Cache) what cache??? And log a find!!!!

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This log appeared on a archived cache:

 

“the mere fact that we made the effort to get there we would like the owner to accept a find based on our photos to prove that we were there.

TFTC”

 

Mmmm TFTC (Thanks For The Cache) what cache??? And log a find!!!!

 

Oooh, yes, how cheeky! I would certainly delete a log of that nature if it appeared on one of my caches. Does that mean we no longer have to look for the caches, we just have to get to the coordinates and we can log a find?? Sorry, that's just not on!

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Some people will stop at nothing to get their numbers up. We have had this discussion so many times and it looks like the only people that are irritated by this practice are the people that play the game right. There are no hard and fast 'rules' and everybody must know that but in the end it boils down to your own morals and ethics. Some cachers don't have them yet they go about boasting about their numbers.

 

- The film canister replacing has been done, where the next cacher finds TWO.

- I was with a cacher who wrote another cacher's name in the logbook so they could also log the find and then the other cacher waxed lyrical about a cache they never uncovered or saw.

- I was at a cache recently where the logbook contained two entries, mine and another known cacher, yet the cache log on Groundspeak has THREE entries. Go figure.

- A group not finding a cache, some of the group logging a FIND, some of the group a DNF.

 

... ag the list goes on.

 

This argument has been discussed ad-nausea and will be discussed in future too. It won't change. I have read the FOUND logs of a few 'Established' cachers, and it makes you wonder.

 

As with our Taxis on the road, YOU stick to the rules of the road, and they push in, drive in the emergency lane, cut you off, etc. And what exactly can you do about it? Absolutely nothing! Silently you dream about a Hummer with a Gatling gun in the nose, but yet working yourself up about something that won't change is an exercise in futility. You just play the game right....

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Just a quick note regarding a replacement. My very first find was a damaged container. It was prtially burnt in a grass fire and as i had a icecream container in the car i replaced the container and even left the partially melted lid inside with the waypoint code still stuck on. This lid has been inside the cache to this day. I left a note for the owner and it has remained as it is with no problems. I feel that if the container is marked but damaged it is only common courtesy to replace, no questions asked.

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Just a quick note regarding a replacement. My very first find was a damaged container. It was prtially burnt in a grass fire and as i had a icecream container in the car i replaced the container and even left the partially melted lid inside with the waypoint code still stuck on. This lid has been inside the cache to this day. I left a note for the owner and it has remained as it is with no problems. I feel that if the container is marked but damaged it is only common courtesy to replace, no questions asked.

 

Repairing a cache (as well as adding a log sheet) and replacing a container is no biggie, but replacing a cache should ONLY be done with the owners explicit permission. I only log a find if the log sheet has been signed, even if I have to do it in blood, or hike 5km back to the car to get a pen.

 

I have to say, I have, in the past, replaced a certain cache without the owners permission, but I won't do it again unless I have spoken to the owner and have explicit permission.

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We witnessed a situation where the last cachers who found the first stage of a multi-cache posted in their note that they found the container at a position that did not correspond with the description of the cache. Therefore they MOVED the container to the position they recon was meant by the cache description.

This resulted in a situation where the next 2 cacher could not find the cache. When the owner investigated they could not find their own cache because it was moved by the cachers who did not ask their consent!

Always get permission from the cache owner before moving/replacing a cache.

 

The second cache that we found are still watched from time to time by us - numerous times people will log that they found the site but no container and then log a find. Been there however we know that there is a "dummy" cache location on the way to the cache location, which almost fooled us into believing that the cache had been muggled until we followed through to the actual co-ords and found the cache safe & sound.

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- numerous times people will log that they found the site but no container and then log a find.

 

Boy does that really get my blood pressure up when somebody says they were at the cache but couldn't log for whatever reason and then log a find!! If the cache has been muggled and it is GONE then there is no cache - DNF. Quite simple. The same when there cache container is there in bits and pieces - sans logbook.

 

I will say no more! :blink:

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I've got such mixed feelings about this. I think that the only true find is a signature in the logbook. Furthermore finds on damaged caches could send wrong messages and mislead future finders, but I refuse to get phased by what cachers regard as a find. Everybody to their own. I would be very hard pressed to delete a find on one of my caches even if I thought it was wrong. It is just not worth the fuss.

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Well, blow me over! We received this request this morning from a cacher in the UK.

Hi there, just getting round to sort my caches out during a trip to SA - tried to find this cache on 3rd Feb and despite a good search [or so I thought] in every hole in those knee-high yellow posts [where I thought the cache could be] had no success - NOW I see that the clue has changed in that I was searching in the right sort of place. I knew the cache was a micro so was assuming a container similar to a 35 mm container but couldn't find anywhere one could be hidden [unless it was behind the shrub behind the left hand seat I couldn't find anything there] As I live in England and not likely to go to SA again [really enjoyed holiday, but dont usually return to same country-too many others to try], could you allow me to log this cache please? many thanks, Frances

 

We have checked if we could find any record of her having been in the area on that day - No.

In all she found 7 caches while here, scattered from Cape Town, Swellendam, Bloukrantz and in Ladysmith, KZN.

The clue has not changed EVER and the cache was still very much there. And it is not a film cannister!

 

We had a case a year or two back of a visitor who took photos of the areas and then approached cache owners asking if he could log. Thinking back, this chap also travelled the country and only logged a handful of caches. Fortunately an Eastern Cape cacher tipped us off about him.

 

What does one do?

 

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Hhmmmm - intweresting

 

But then as people are only up aganst themselves in this - I'd look at their track record - if they only logged 7 caches on an entire trip to SA (and it looks like they were there) - they are probably not in the numbers game - but enjoy caching for the sake of the fun involved. Although not something i'd do - it comes down to your owners discretion as whether to allow or not.

 

My gut feel - is if they are asking to log - this is probably how they play the game - and they are only fooling themselves. Yes they were at the site - and actually had a DNF - but in their minds have reason for a Find. I wouldn't do this - but am a bit of a softy - and would probably allow the log if they'd logged it.

 

Another way of looking at it - if they didn't contact you - and just logged a find - what woudl you do?

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And we knew they hadn't been there. Delete it!

I'm feeling slightly sorry for the person but my better half says if you didn't write in the log book, you didn't find it!

There were many we didn't find last year in the UK, but we would never have thought of asking the cache owners if we can log. I suppose I have just answered my own question with that sentence!

We even had a log deleted by a UK cache owner because we put a photo on the cache page with the building in questions' name on it! We have never argued to have our log reinstated.

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I had a similar request for one of my caches. I look at this way:

I know rules are rules and all that but this is just a "game" after all. No one "Wins" or "Loses". So you are faced with a choice - make a stranger happy or make a stranger sad. When I look at it like that, I wonder what the point of not allowing them to log is.

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.................We even had a log deleted by a UK cache owner because we put a photo on the cache page with the building in questions' name on it! We have never argued to have our log reinstated.

 

WOW - that's a bit rough! The least they could have done was asked you to remove the photograph, but delete your log based on that? Really a bit rough.

 

As for your question posed of allowing the find - the description of the area is quite detailed - does it match the cache location? As CH said, many people are not numbers orientated. Numbers are not important to me either as where I live there are none to chase!!! :) Perhaps these cachers are visually impaired and only look for selected caches while in foreign countries? When I visit a country that I know I might not visit again in a hurry I look for 1 or 2 specific caches that I know I ought to find in order to log the "country". IMHO, after receiving such an e-mail, I would probably tell them to do whatever they feel is right as after all it is their concience that is at stake and not yours.

 

My 2 cents worth.

Edited by cincol
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IMHO, after receiving such an e-mail, I would probably tell them to do whatever they feel is right as after all it is their concience that is at stake and not yours.

 

My 2 cents worth.

 

Agree on the harshness of the cownchicken deleted log - I certainly would have queried irt - or photoshopped my photo to delete the name and relogged. An honest mistake in including that in the log I'm sure.

 

And the bottom line is - as cincol says - on their concience.

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I would suggest that you re-log your find, using bland wording, and without the photo.

You have every right to log your find and claim your smiley, and the cache owner has every right to delete your log if there's something he doesn't like about it.

A bland "found" log cannot be offensive in any way, and must be accepted.

 

Hope this helps.... :)

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Just a quick note regarding a replacement. My very first find was a damaged container. It was prtially burnt in a grass fire and as i had a icecream container in the car i replaced the container and even left the partially melted lid inside with the waypoint code still stuck on. This lid has been inside the cache to this day. I left a note for the owner and it has remained as it is with no problems. I feel that if the container is marked but damaged it is only common courtesy to replace, no questions asked.

 

Back on the repair topic... Some food for thought on this older cache

 

August 26, 2005 by lostinspace! (10 found)

The compassion of BJBez has resurrected Pot of Gold! After some pain and anguish over the lost cache, BJBez has taken it upon himself to replace the cache with a brand new one! Thanks BJBez! Geocaching is wholly dependent on the goodwill and responsibility of the participants and you have shown a great example to follow.

 

This is specially true where the cache owners are no longer active.

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I had the opposite happen last week. Coming home from a stay up all night trip with our teens from church, I needed a break driving, so figured stopping at a Cracker Barrel would give me a chance to stretch my brain as well as my legs. The last log for the cache said the found the log lying on the ground but no container, so they put it where they thought it should go. Sitting and rocking, waiting for a chance to look up under where the hint suggested, I saw the log up under the flashing on the side of the building. Pulled it out, signed, then waited some more so I could get down on hands and knees to look for the container, and it was right where it was supposed to be. Don't know why the previous cacher didn't find it, but I reunited the parts.

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So, by allowing the log do we start a precedence and ....

 

if we can't find a log down the road, just take a few photo's, give a description, mail the owner and log! And before we know it everybody will be doing this.

 

We did a cache on the Garden Route a month ago: Kingfisher Magic forest by Hannes & Pieter (GC1KKH9)....... DNF.

iPajero did it last week ... DNF.

Read the logs.

 

No comment from cache owner ... plenty photos between us for sure ... 6 hours of searching between us .... do we mail the owner with "Please can we log"!! Don't think so!

 

When will either of us return to the spot again? Not very soon.

Edited by cownchicken
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I had a similar request for one of my caches. I look at this way:

I know rules are rules and all that but this is just a "game" after all. No one "Wins" or "Loses". So you are faced with a choice - make a stranger happy or make a stranger sad. When I look at it like that, I wonder what the point of not allowing them to log is.

 

I agree with that. I had a similar incedent with one of my caches last year. The cacher claimed a find on the grounds that he knew he was looking in the right place as he was with another cacher who had previously found the cache. (The cache was missing!) I had other cachers query the log - but I decided to leave it be. It is afterall, only a game we play.

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In general I don't log a find unless my name is in the logbook. An exception to this rule is when I find a cache where the logbook is either completely full with absolutely no space for my log (this happens way too often with these nano-caches) or missing (but with the rest of the swag still in the container).

 

I haven't had a dodgy found log on one of my caches yet, but I don't think I'll make a big fuss about it - if it's the way they play the game, then so be it. I will however, have a problem with someone dropping a TB into a cache the TB never physically visited, since then they're messing things up for the TB owner.

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I also will not log a find if I didn't sign the log, that's not the point though. The point is would you let others log a find?

In my case the cache is in Mauritius. The listing has a mega spoiler photo on it as it is a small micro, and everyone is only going to get one shot at it. Some Germans went on holiday. They didn't print the listing or spoiler. they took loads of photo's at the cache spot (they got to experience what i hoped they would), they asked to log a find. (Would I have done the same? No.) I let them log a find. Was I wrong?

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I also will not log a find if I didn't sign the log, that's not the point though. The point is would you let others log a find?

In my case the cache is in Mauritius. The listing has a mega spoiler photo on it as it is a small micro, and everyone is only going to get one shot at it. Some Germans went on holiday. They didn't print the listing or spoiler. they took loads of photo's at the cache spot (they got to experience what i hoped they would), they asked to log a find. (Would I have done the same? No.) I let them log a find. Was I wrong?

 

I agree entirely. Everyone plays the game by their own rules, and I am loathe to impress my way of playing on others, because it is a game. If someone has taken a resonable amount of trouble, and even more so if they have taken the trouble to ask permission, then I would let them have it their way, unless there is compelling evidence that the cache does not exist. If the cache does not exist the logging of a find might mislead future cachers.

 

I think you did the right thing by allowing their find.

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Mmmmm....interesting thread! I was going through some of my DNFs the other day and I visited the cache page of one. On reading the logs I see the owner had encouraged people to take a pic of themselves or their GPS near the cache site and then log as a find.

 

I thought woohoo. I'll log the find now! I had previously logged a DNF and even got stung by an angry bee guarding the hiding place! Lucky the rest of his friends did not get me! I logged and sent a note to the owner in good faith saying I was going to claim a find now that they had changed the logging requirements.

 

Well the cache was disabled 3 days later by Fish Eagle citing "virtual logging with a photo is not permitted"

So I will go and delete that log immediately - i just feel wrong about it now - but hey that's me - seems similar to a lot of you guys as well!

 

trev

Edited by trevorh7000
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I, will also only log a find, if I have signed the log book. If I have a photo of a TB/Coin then I will discover it.

 

*My* exception is that if I find the remains of a cache container, or the log book from the container, I will then ask the owner if it is OK to log the cache.

 

One cache I did was a puzzle cache, at it was darn hard, and eventually solved it, with some luck, and no outside help. Getting to the cache location I searched the most I had ever searched for some hint of a container. In the end it was the hardest DNF I ever had to log. But it taught me with some experience, what a "Find" actually entails.

 

Then the following scenario happend:

I have a bee in my bonnet, to find the 25 oldest active caches in South Africa. Last weekend in Piet Retief I went to go find Eucalyptus. At ground 0 all we found were the remains of the bottom of the cache container. A shape of a gecko melted into the plastic confirmed it definitely was the cache container. With my rules, I could log a find since I found the remains, but in this case it did not feel right for me to do so. I had traveled over 300 km to come and do this cache and now this happes. I really wanted to log a find here. Luckily I met up with the owner and we returned the next day and replaced the cache, and was able to log my find. This "Found It" log definitely feels better, then logging a cache with just finding the remains.

 

So I think we are all still learning what is acceptable, and what might have been acceptable for a cache then, is no longer acceptable later on.

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Let me tell you about a cache that I logged that was not there. Judge for yourself. To every story there are three sides – your story, my story and the other story. I will not mention a name, gender, cache name or location. My idea is not to nail the owner but to highlight that you sometimes reap what you have sowed. If it does happen – do not cry. Take it on the chin and move on.

 

I visited this specific cache the Friday and I informed the owner by cell that the cache was gone. I was accompanied with a cacher that found it and he also verified that the cache was gone. Exact details were given to me of the hide that was done. I gave the owner a courtesy call to inform him/her that the cache is gone. The owner promised to replace the cache on the Saturday. This was not done at gun point but at free will this was offered.

 

I then postponed my planned trip to the other caches and I went back the Sunday with my brother for the first time. Guess what? The cache was not there. We then went back 3 times in a row to enter my name on a stupid piece of paper. Every time I had to skip the other cache hunts because of this owner. This is my world – you stick to your words and you deliver what you say and you do it against all obstacles and in all circumstances. You mean what you say and you have no excuses. This is the way we love and live. After the third time I was jumping up and down at this cache. Every time I went a little bit higher. I was out of my mind. I was dadgum angry as this was a total waste of time and money. If you can’t fulfil your promise then you take your cell phone and you phone me “Listen monkey face I am not going to replace the cache as promised”. This I can handle. But to be fooled three times in a row is not that nice. This cache is on the opposite site of the others I planned to hunt. I travelled more than a 1000 km to visit this cache and this was the reward. Only once in a year I have the opportunity to find caches in this area and sometimes I only have a bi-annual chance.

 

I told my brother “Now I will log this find. Let us annoy the cache owner, time to get even, time to teach him/her a lesson”. Maybe he/she will think about this log and he/she will delete it but just maybe this person will think why it was done and maybe she/he will learn a lesson. Eventually the reviewer had to kick up sand months after this incident to get the cache working again. I was expecting the cache owner to delete the log but it never happened. Yes, it does bother me and I do have a soul and conscience. We kept the log on the listing and we hoped for someone to query it, no queries were done.

 

We are on our way to this cache again and we will visit it. We will correct the log and the date of the second visit will be entered to make it legal. But think about this one. I lost many cache finds just because I trusted an empty promise. Sometimes we must read between the lines and try to work out why certain things do happen. I logged the find to annoy the owner. But the owner never understood the message and he/she never could understand the log. Yes, I also know that this person will be reading this message and maybe he/she will deny it. But I was in the company of another cacher that overheard the conversation. If I speak to a person I normally turn the speaker on for everybody to understand what is happening if there is common interest.

 

Do not worry I will visit your cache to sign the log and to correct the date unless you disable it out of spite. I will then delete the log and forget about this cache – but that I can plan and it will not hamper me – not again. Sometimes the obvious is not the obvious and sometimes one have to accept the consequences of your empty promises.

 

Gerhard

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Let me tell you about a cache that I logged

Gerhard, I am sorry for your bad experience. Did you think to contact the owner to find out if the cache was replaced? I find most cachers I have bumped into (via email) are more than willing to share their cell numbers.

If you are ever in the Cape and have a problem with one of my caches, please email me for my cell number.

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Hey Anlufu you were not supposed to get out of the cupboard with this issue. It was supposed to be kept privately and to be used as an example.

 

To admit a mistake is the characteristic of a great person. We all make mistakes. Well done and you deserve all my respect. I will now delete the log from your listing and the issue will be resolved. Feel free to have a cup of coffee with me when I am in the area. It will be great to meet you and to show you that I have no hard feelings - at the end it is only a game. :rolleyes::blink:B)

 

Gerhard

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Hi there, just getting round to sort my caches out during a trip to SA - tried to find this cache on 3rd Feb and despite a good search [or so I thought] in every hole in those knee-high yellow posts [where I thought the cache could be] had no success - NOW I see that the clue has changed in that I was searching in the right sort of place. I knew the cache was a micro so was assuming a container similar to a 35 mm container but couldn't find anywhere one could be hidden [unless it was behind the shrub behind the left hand seat I couldn't find anything there] As I live in England and not likely to go to SA again [really enjoyed holiday, but dont usually return to same country-too many others to try], could you allow me to log this cache please? many thanks, Frances

 

Well, here is the next dilemma....this lady supposedly did a cache where the log paper was full, so could not log.

The cache owners asked us to replace the paper on their behalf.

Once home we had a good look at the paper. The one side is full, yet the reverse has all the space in the world to write a lengthy autobiography on .... yet she logged it as a find - would this be an honest log on her behalf?

Oh, and our cache that she could not find, she claimed was in Oudtshoorn!!???

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I have a question for Gerardoos...

 

If it's not there the next day when you return, especially if you have other caches planned. Why not phone the cache owner again and ask what the story is? Especially after the third time?

 

I think a bit of comunication can go a long way. As far as logging a find to teach a lesson to the cache owner, would a note on the cache page not have been more effective, or a "needs maintenance"?

 

Please don't take offense, because I don't mean it in a nasty way. I just see so many ugly situations which could so easily have been avoided by a little honest communication.

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Mmmmm....interesting thread! ........

 

Well the cache was disabled 3 days later by Fish Eagle citing "virtual logging with a photo is not permitted"

 

trev

Interesting info Trevor. I have done a similar log on a find in that the owner of the cache is now overseas and cannot replace the container. I had searched for it to no avail and even the owner has confirmed it is missing. I see that the logs are still accepted for this cache with a photo displaying the place in question with yourself and GPSr though. This has been some time and before Fish Eagle came in as a reviewer.

 

My concern is that this may effect a cache of mine that GerhardoosMPsa and I visited and even though the cache was still there I have removed it for safety purposes untill i find a more suitable place to put the cache. We found a boomslang in the hidey hole after the log was signed and we were about to replace the cache....

 

So in the interem until I get a suitable new container, that need not be put in a hidey hole, i am allowing photo claims. I feel that sometimes a disabled cache drives people away from a place that they may never go to again as it is on a planned holiday route. And disabling it might just have them miss something. It is a small risk i take not knowing for certain if they actually did visit as photo's can be manipulated but it is on the person posting the finds conscience. This is not a game against anyone, this is a pastime and manipulating finds is only cheating on oneself. There are no rewards for the numbers, unless i don't know about them. It is all about personal discoveries. Sometimes i have DNF's and i take it in it's stride. No logsheet signed no log as a find. With the exception that the owner allows it beforehand on his cache page for a photo claim.

 

I have most of the SA database loaded on my Nuvi and every now and then a long archived cache shows up and knowing it is not there (apparently). I will go and have a look for the cache hide spot, maybe have a look for a cache, just in case it might still be there (never know). And generally enjoy the reason for the original caches purpose. No claim, just enjoying the game.

 

Hopefully on my next trip to Durban I can elude the security at Night Light and claim my find... if not i will be DNF x 6 LOL.

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For what it is worth, here is my fairly new to caching opinion - if you do not find the actual cache and do not sign the log then you have not found the cache and it should not be logged as such. It should not matter if the cache is missing, has been swallowed by an earthquake crater or whatever the reason! Maybe I have not been around long enough to fully understand the other arguments and discussions but it seems pretty simple to me.

 

I have a number of DNFs (including some multiple DNFs) and I am as proud of them as my finds. The hunt is the fun part! Some people just seem very reluctant to log DNFs... it's a mentality I don't really understand.

 

I have stumbled across a number of (mainly micro) caches where I know for a fact that I am at the right place but have been unable to find them... does this mean I should be allowed to take a photo and then log it as a find? Of course not... finding the actual micro, and signing the log, is part of the game.

 

On this note, and at risk of going off topic slightly, another gripe of mine is cachers who seem insistent on always logging the find as a really simple find! This will of course be the case sometimes but the problem is some people seem to post this for every cache they find. Either they are really, really, really good or they feel that saying this makes them so much better than those of us who have logged a DNF... :) If you had difficulty finding it say so, if you could not find it log it as a DNF. Doing so will prove a lot more useful to people who later try to find the same cache and read the logs.

Edited by C.A.T.A
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:blink::) My skin is too thick too take offence. I think this issue is resolved. If you look carefully you will note that the specific log is no longer and to me the issue is resolved when I removed the log. This was one instance out of 670 so to me this is not an issue but an exception. I also would like to apologize to the owner but I think that the person now understands better. An exception is not a rule and it should not be something for discussion. One can cry about everything you see in life and become a very bitter person but one must always measure the total effect and one must keep a perception and a balance.

 

Communication via cell was done and a commitment was done. Because of the commitment we went back three times as there is a two way action. If someone says yes I will do it then I have to keep my side of the bargain as well. To log “Need maintenance” is not effective and some owners are jumping up and down when you do this. Just recently I looked for a cache that was about 1000 meters out. The trick was that the owner made a note somewhere on the listing but never realised that he should update the co-ordinates of the listing. If this was not possible then he must contact the reviewer to change the co-ordinates. I ended up looking for about 60 minutes for something that was not there – I normally do not read the logs but the listing. Only back at base I was reading all the logs and realised that the co-ordinates were incorrect. I dropped a DNF and I told the owner what he must do. Guess what – he jumped up and down for a while before he corrected the waypoint. Some owners do see this as a personal insult and do not like to be told what to do.

 

A log is strange when the owner is aware that the cache is not there. That he can delete but hopefully he will think about it and wonder why this guy is logging it. If he thinks hard enough he should realised that he made a commitment and he should correct that.

 

In the following I believe, maybe I am wrong but this is the way I do caching.

1. If I find a strange log on one of my caches then I normally ignore it. I refuse to play policeman. The game is not regulated with fixed rules. If he logged one of my caches and his name is not in the book then I will not remove the log. In matter of fact I will not remove any logs. I just hope that he was there and that he enjoyed the location. But to watch every single log for truthfulness is not my kind of game. Out of more than a 100 finds there were two strange finds and I will not cut my pulses for this. If 99 were false and one was true then I will be jumping up and down and the logs will be deleted. One must be flexible. If water flows down the river and there is a massive stone in its way the water will not stop to decide what to do. It will just flow around it. The same with caching, a false log once in a blue moon is not something that will bother me – I just pass it and I forget about it. It only becomes a problem when most are false. Until then they do not bother me.

2. The person that log falsely will eventually get tired of the game and he will drop out. I like my numbers but this is not the ultimate why I am doing caching. Just to log numbers by doing false logs will drive you to boredom at one stage or another.

3. If strange logging do occur not as an exception but as a rule then I will start to delete the false logs unless the owner can convince me that he was there for examples photos.

4. If I search for the cache and the cache is destroyed beyond recognition then I will log the find. But there must be something that represented the cache. I will normally photograph the area and the location as evidence and the remains of the cache. But again it all depends on the owner. If he wants a written log and he delete my log then I will be p*ssed off but I will accept it. It is his cache and he does beat the drum. Some cachers do not believe in this. Just recently a cacher phoned me to inform me that my cache is gone but he did find the container and I immediately recognized it. I told him to log the find and he refused. To me this is a waste of time and money. I planted a cache to show him a certain location and not to sign a logbook. He drove 200 km to this area and the cache was not there but he found the remains. To me personally it is an absolute waste of time and money and it does create a negative impact on the environment to hunt for this cache again. Face it – the next time he will sign the log but there will be nothing new for him. To me I planted the cache to show him a location and not to sign the log book as primary goal and objective. The finding and the signing of the cache is secondary. To highlight this you need to calculate the cost of about R2/km to include wear and tear such as tyres, services and the use of the capital. To drive 200 km to sign a logbook is thus at R400 effective cost which is crazy. If you found the remains of any of my caches you log the find and I will correct the cache as soon as possible. But again post a photograph as proof. If it not the remains then I will ask the cacher to remove the log but I will not delete it. If you find nothing then you log a DNF and I will investigate. In the same breath I also do not say you need to visit the location and not signing the log book. The focus is on a muggled cache.

5. As a rule if I do not find a cache I will log a DNF. But again this is also not always true – after finding about 10 DNF’s in a certain area I started to forget which ones was attempted.

6. If there is severe damage to the environment or the location I will forward it to the reviewer as a complaint. I will not enter into any e-mails to the owner as it his responsibility to ensure that damages do not occur. If maintenance was done by the owner then he should noticed the impact. Grass flattened and/or disturbed is not damage to me. Severe erosion caused by cacher footpaths is a concern but I will not complain. Damage to a monument or historical site is a different ball game. Also the location is important. If respect must be shown then I assume that the owner must be sensitive enough to incorporate that. There are certain things that I treasure as extremely important and if you do monkey business at this location and it violates a value system from me then no punches will be pulled.

7. If a cache is no good I will tell it to the owner straight forward. If your waypoint is 10 meters out and your difficulty level is one – rest assure you will hear from me in no uncertain terms. If your waypoint is out by 10 meters and your difficulty level is 2 or 3 then I will keep quiet. Maybe the owner wanted you to look at the obvious and he wanted to test your skills. The same applies to a high muggle area – do not point me to a general area in the middle of nowhere and somewhere and then expect me to find the cache. I expect that inside a high muggle area the waypoint must be accurate.

8. Same applies to a micro planted in a massive mountain of stones and rocks. It is not nice. If you plant a micro inside areas like this then you need to make sure that the waypoint is accurate.

9. As a rule I try to side step any caches with two or more DNF’s. But again I sometimes break this rule when the location is good. Then I visit the location to enjoy it and not to find the cache. Yes, I will try to find it but I will not walk away crying because I did not find the cache. There are many more to be found.

10. If I get to an area and it is not possible to hunt for the cache then I will walk away.

11. If a negative comment was published by me then I will correct it with my next visit to the area, however only when an improvement can be seen. With my last visit to a certain area I was not impressed. Most caches were not accurate and the hints… It is now one year later and I am on my way to this area. If you know me personally then you will know that I am a very straight person with no holding back. This time around I have the equipment to ensure that all data is relevant and up to date. If an improvement can be noticed then I will say well done. But if I end up with caches that are 12 meters accurate with a difficulty rating of 1 they will hear from me. Yes, they will not like it but in one year from now I will be in the area again and I will do the same. But I do this not to blow my own horn but to make it more pleasurable for others.

 

I see several strange things in my logbooks. Just recently I noticed that some cachers are getting high scores. While maintaining my caches I do read the logbooks very carefully. The group divided in two and they searched for caches in different locations and in different directions. The one group did find some of my caches and they signed on behalf of the complete team while the other group done the same. Here I have a legitimate log but I know that half the group was missing. Do I enjoy this? – No. I planted the cache at a specific location for cachers to see. One half of the cachers never seen the cache but someone signed on his behalf. Will I delete the log? No but I will remember the name of the cachers involved. Will I publish their names? No – that is not me.

 

I think at the end it is the cache owner that does make the rules. There are no hard and fast rules cast in concrete. If the cache owner wants to see a log in his logbook then he must state it clearly on his listing. “No logbook – no find and I will have the opportunity to delete your log if it is not done.” This will stop the issue, the owner made his ruling clear and you visit that cache with his ruling and under his conditions and terms. You side step his rules your log goes bye bye.

 

Gerhard

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I will go and have a look for the cache hide spot, maybe have a look for a cache, just in case it might still be there (never know). And generally enjoy the reason for the original caches purpose. No claim, just enjoying the game.

 

 

:):blink: Very well done sir. I believe this shows the true spirit of the game!!!

Edited by Skyjuggler
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C.A.T.A. You've stumbled onto another pet hate of mine...

 

I have two types of log that irritate me, for my own caches as well as others. "TFTC TNLNSL" is not a complete log in my opinion. Cachers spend time and effort into taking you somewhere special (usually), the least you can do is impart a little of your experience while doing the cache...

 

The second type is the one you mentioned, "Easy find, TFTC". Saying the find is easy once or twice is one thing, but when it's EVERY SINGLE LOG!!!

 

Sorry, (off the topic) rant over :)

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Someone once logged two caches of mine on the same day. Not to serious, but one was here in Edenvale, east of Johannesburg, and the other in Port Elizabeth. Very concerned that it was someone taking a chance, I contacted him / her. And they said they were both late logs, as they had done them both some time before. Plausible explanation, so I left it.

 

I have seen other cachers not really minding what dates they log their find on. Me, I am a little more meticulous on the date (and time).

 

What works for one, does not always work for the other.

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if you do not find the actual cache and do not sign the log then you have not found the cache and it should not be logged as such.

I agree...for myself. That's my rule, but do you really think it "hurts the game" if you allow logs, when requested, based on a photo? If it was a trend, happening all the time I may think differently, but it has only happened once to me. I really feel I would rather allow a little happiness...

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C.A.T.A. You've stumbled onto another pet hate of mine...

 

I have two types of log that irritate me, for my own caches as well as others. "TFTC TNLNSL" is not a complete log in my opinion. Cachers spend time and effort into taking you somewhere special (usually), the least you can do is impart a little of your experience while doing the cache...

 

The second type is the one you mentioned, "Easy find, TFTC". Saying the find is easy once or twice is one thing, but when it's EVERY SINGLE LOG!!!

 

Sorry, (off the topic) rant over :)

 

I hate that too, and find it a bit of an insult.

If I find a cache that I find boring or does not have much going for it, then I will just write thanks for the cache, or easy find or something along those lines!

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I have seen other cachers not really minding what dates they log their find on. Me, I am a little more meticulous on the date (and time).

 

I think logging the find with the correct date is extremely important! When battling to find a cache I often take a look at the logs to see when it was last found to give me an indication of whether it is still there or perhaps been muggled. If it was found the day before I am there looking for it I'd usually assume it must still be there and persist. If, however, the last find was over a year ago I may be more likely to assume it could now be missing.

 

I agree...for myself. That's my rule, but do you really think it "hurts the game" if you allow logs, when requested, based on a photo? If it was a trend, happening all the time I may think differently, but it has only happened once to me. I really feel I would rather allow a little happiness...

 

I'll use today as an example... we found a cache location pretty easily but it was a micro that was extremely well hidden (Thanks Noddy :) "Scout Bowl"). Of course we would only really be cheating ourselves but if a photo of us near the cache was sufficient proof of a find we may never have persisted and spent the 30 minutes we did spend looking for the actual cache. Of course, as it was, we had to find it so that we could sign the log.

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I will go and have a look for the cache hide spot, maybe have a look for a cache, just in case it might still be there (never know). And generally enjoy the reason for the original caches purpose. No claim, just enjoying the game.

 

 

:):anicute: Very well done sir. I believe this shows the true spirit of the game!!!

 

Thank you.

 

I see that there are negative views about claiming a cache by photo in the thread. I just want to state that although i too am one who would rather sign a log to claim a find I am allowing this to be done on one of my caches until i find a suitable container to replace the one I originally placed at the cache. I do not want to let the trip be wasted as there are few caches in the area and most people going there will most likely be on leave. The cache will if claimed in this time be replaced with a log sheet including all the finders in the original log sheet and I will add any additional finders should they send a picture.

 

On the same note should a cacher find any of my caches and a pen is missing to sign the log I will accept at least a photo of the cache hiding spot as well as the physical cache and the finder along with the GPS. Upon confirmation this will then be accepted as a find and a maintenance note to me will then be addressed as such.

 

As I said to me this is a game. It is not a race to add numbers although personal goals are great. And for others to reach theirs is always nice to see and a warm congratulation on their achievement is always there. Sure we have a competitive spirit but to me it is so much more than that. It is a game of adventure and discovery, of sharing and of friends. I have met people from all walks of life who share a passion that i relate to. I have met some wonderful friends who i am glad to get together with and just get out and enjoy a day of treasure hunting, whether it be in some car park in a busy city mall or at 3000m above the sea on top of a mountain, searching for them ever elusive plastic containers. If it be meeting for a cup of coffee as they rush through town or a weekend of torturous mountain climbing. The same thing applies we are in this for the game, friendship and fun. The little plastic container is just a little bonus.

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