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Can someone explain while we all have to have a single standard on this site

 

yet this sort of thing continues in the US

 

you have Religious Jokes re creationism/Evolution,

Jokes re Walmart

racist jokes

 

Commercial

 

toyota

 

Spam filter

 

Political

irs refund

 

San Diego Banter, Semi-Important topics related to Geocaching in the San Diego area

 

one forum - and I only looked back 3 pages

 

thought maybe keystone and mtn man might have missed that so went to the forum they moderate

the North East

 

advert

 

another

 

but maybe these are okay surely nothing with a donation could be mentioned could it?

 

oops

 

so maybe it is just on forum - nope

 

From a US Cache Page

 

Some interesting McDonald's facts:

 

---Everyday 0.5 percent of the worlds population visits a McDonalds.

 

---Who sells the most hamburgers, chicken, coffee & pizza in Canada? That's right McDonald's. They are also the largest owner of property in the world.

 

---One new McDonald's opens somewhere in the world every six hours.

 

---There are currently 23,346 McDonald's restaurants in 110 countries world-wide---40% of McDonald's profits come from the sales of "Happy Meals". .

 

there are loads with commercial links

 

I have already submitted a list of caches that explicitly mention Walmart to TPTB via Dave - if you put Walmart as the keyword they will appear

 

just looked at Statbucks (23 - GCXW3T is an example)

 

Now this suggests to me that maybe this isn't a question of consistency I note that again Keystone is at the centre of this (for those who are new search for his posts in Jan 05) and again he is supported by Mtn-man (who proudly states in his tag line Forum moderator when Keystone lets me.)

 

Given the above casn somebody tell me

 

what is going on

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I agree with you wholeheartedly - and the other day I started at the top of the general forum and reported each thread with commercial content as breaching forum guidelines - but got bored after half a dozen or so, there were just too many of them. Oh, and nothing happened as a result of me reporting the threads, not even a PM from the moderator.

It seems commercial solicitation is fine - as long as it has relevance (however small) to caching in the US - so guns, cars, gps's, software, stores are all OK to mention.

Personally, as it's probably illegal to carry a gun in most countries that contribute to the forums, I think that that particular thread breaches "global" guidelines and should be pulled.......

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I agree with you wholeheartedly - and the other day I started at the top of the general forum and reported each thread with commercial content as breaching forum guidelines - but got bored after half a dozen or so, there were just too many of them. Oh, and nothing happened as a result of me reporting the threads, not even a PM from the moderator.

It seems commercial solicitation is fine - as long as it has relevance (however small) to caching in the US - so guns, cars, gps's, software, stores are all OK to mention.

Personally, as it's probably illegal to carry a gun in most countries that contribute to the forums, I think that that particular thread breaches "global" guidelines and should be pulled.......

 

I contemplated doing this as well - only I haven't got an hour to sit down and do it just yet! (later though...) Lets see if Groundspeak think its OK to close one thread after one complaint from a moderator, despite an explanation from the local moderator as to why it was allowed to continue, yet ignore several complaints on the US-based threads from non-moderators. Maybe some cachers are more equal than others...

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Can someone explain while we all have to have a single standard on this site

 

yet this sort of thing continues in the US

 

 

Dodgy moderation!

 

Do we really want to campaign for a lowering of standards that will allow the UK forum to degnerate to irrelevant idle chitter chatter?

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Can someone explain while we all have to have a single standard on this site

 

yet this sort of thing continues in the US

 

 

Dodgy moderation!

 

Do we really want to campaign for a lowering of standards that will allow the UK forum to degnerate to irrelevant idle chitter chatter?

No - but if Groundspeak insist on applying the guidelines without leeway, they have to be applied across the board - not just in this forum.

For example, on the general forum at the moment there is a thread about a Jeep caching game that requires you to visit Jeep's website and register - and another for a charity tree planting event. Neither of these threads have been locked, yet they both breach the guidelines.

Neither of these threads are objectionable and deserve to be locked - but then neither were any of the locked threads on this forum (IMO)....

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No - but if Groundspeak insist on applying the guidelines without leeway, they have to be applied across the board - not just in this forum.

For example, on the general forum at the moment there is a thread about a Jeep caching game that requires you to visit Jeep's website and register - and another for a charity tree planting event. Neither of these threads have been locked, yet they both breach the guidelines.

Neither of these threads are objectionable and deserve to be locked - but then neither were any of the locked threads on this forum (IMO)....

 

I don't care what happens on the San Diego forum. I like the UK forum because it's largely relevant and kept on topic.

 

I find it rather sad that folks have time to waste scouting out examples of poor moderation just so that they can cry foul :lol:

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No - but if Groundspeak insist on applying the guidelines without leeway, they have to be applied across the board - not just in this forum.

For example, on the general forum at the moment there is a thread about a Jeep caching game that requires you to visit Jeep's website and register - and another for a charity tree planting event. Neither of these threads have been locked, yet they both breach the guidelines.

Neither of these threads are objectionable and deserve to be locked - but then neither were any of the locked threads on this forum (IMO)....

 

I don't care what happens on the San Diego forum. I like the UK forum because it's largely relevant and kept on topic.

 

I find it rather sad that folks have time to waste scouting out examples of poor moderation just so that they can cry foul :)

 

you miss the point - I am happy to have a uk forum that is relevent and keeps on topic but if we have to have consistent rules then they must by definition be consistent. Due to your lack of posts (unless of course you have a seperate identity) I will not demand an apology but calling me sad is inappropriate on any forum

 

:lol: Bob

Edited by Jan and the Percey Boys
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No - but if Groundspeak insist on applying the guidelines without leeway, they have to be applied across the board - not just in this forum.

For example, on the general forum at the moment there is a thread about a Jeep caching game that requires you to visit Jeep's website and register - and another for a charity tree planting event. Neither of these threads have been locked, yet they both breach the guidelines.

Neither of these threads are objectionable and deserve to be locked - but then neither were any of the locked threads on this forum (IMO)....

 

I don't care what happens on the San Diego forum. I like the UK forum because it's largely relevant and kept on topic.

 

I find it rather sad that folks have time to waste scouting out examples of poor moderation just so that they can cry foul :lol:

 

and nor did anyone else care what happens in the San Diego forum (for example). The point is that UK cachers did care about the locked threads on here, and were reading and participating in them. They may only have been loosely related to caching, in as much as there were teams of UK cachers participating, but no one is saying you have to read all the threads! As you say, the UK forum IS largely relevent and on topic, but there will always be threads that don't interest you personally (such as events that are at the other end of the country, or whatever). That doesn't mean they should be locked though...

 

Oh, and if we'd had a proper reply from Groundspeak, explaining what is happening, and somehow showing that our points are being taken on board, then I (and others I suspect) would be more inclined to sit back and let things get sorted out. This in no way reflects on mtn-man, who has done all he can to maintain communication and take the flak, but surely it is now time for someone from HQ to answer!

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I don't care what happens on the San Diego forum. I like the UK forum because it's largely relevant and kept on topic.

 

I find it rather sad that folks have time to waste scouting out examples of poor moderation just so that they can cry foul :lol:

I've never read the San Diego forum - I usually read this one and the general forum - so didn't have to "go scouting" for examples of bad moderation.......

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you miss the point - I am happy to have a uk forum that is relevent and keeps on topic but if we have to have consistent rules then they must by definition be consistent. Due to your lack of posts (unless of course you have a seperate identity) I will not demand an apology but calling me sad is inappropriate on any forum

 

 

Why does my volume of posts make any difference?

 

Are there different standards for the "inner circle" ?

 

I thgink the fact that you take offence at this illustrates the way that people are getting overly sensitive over this?

 

I wasn't specifically referring to anyone, I was thinking of a number of posts in a similar vein on a number of different threads. I don't think of the people as sad, I think the escalation of the whole situation is exceedingly sad!

 

Lets all relax and get out caching or whatever else floats our boats, instead of worrying that our moderstion isn't as lax as some other forums.

 

If you have taken offence I apologise, none was intended.

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and nor did anyone else care what happens in the San Diego forum (for example). The point is that UK cachers did care about the locked threads on here, and were reading and participating in them. They may only have been loosely related to caching, in as much as there were teams of UK cachers participating, but no one is saying you have to read all the threads! As you say, the UK forum IS largely relevent and on topic, but there will always be threads that don't interest you personally (such as events that are at the other end of the country, or whatever). That doesn't mean they should be locked though...

 

Oh, and if we'd had a proper reply from Groundspeak, explaining what is happening, and somehow showing that our points are being taken on board, then I (and others I suspect) would be more inclined to sit back and let things get sorted out. This in no way reflects on mtn-man, who has done all he can to maintain communication and take the flak, but surely it is now time for someone from HQ to answer!

 

Moderation has to draw a line somewhere. a bit of leeway or the odd thread slipping through isn't a major issue, but it's not much good complaining when a clearly off-topic thread is locked or deleted.

 

I don't mind the odd off-topic thread, I don't like people representing their own personal opinions as the views of the UK or major cultural differences. We can all speak for ourselves, none of us should be encouraging division over this, there are people in the UK doing as much damage as Groundspeak ever could.

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and nor did anyone else care what happens in the San Diego forum (for example). The point is that UK cachers did care about the locked threads on here, and were reading and participating in them. They may only have been loosely related to caching, in as much as there were teams of UK cachers participating, but no one is saying you have to read all the threads! As you say, the UK forum IS largely relevent and on topic, but there will always be threads that don't interest you personally (such as events that are at the other end of the country, or whatever). That doesn't mean they should be locked though...

 

Oh, and if we'd had a proper reply from Groundspeak, explaining what is happening, and somehow showing that our points are being taken on board, then I (and others I suspect) would be more inclined to sit back and let things get sorted out. This in no way reflects on mtn-man, who has done all he can to maintain communication and take the flak, but surely it is now time for someone from HQ to answer!

 

Moderation has to draw a line somewhere. a bit of leeway or the odd thread slipping through isn't a major issue, but it's not much good complaining when a clearly off-topic thread is locked or deleted.

 

I don't mind the odd off-topic thread, I don't like people representing their own personal opinions as the views of the UK or major cultural differences. We can all speak for ourselves, none of us should be encouraging division over this, there are people in the UK doing as much damage as Groundspeak ever could.

 

You are of course entitled to your opinion, you say the views expressed are not those of many in one of your posts. Could I ask that you expand on this, perhaps with some evidence.

 

While your view may be right, without some evidence it would be difficult to represent those views.

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You are of course entitled to your opinion, you say the views expressed are not those of many in one of your posts. Could I ask that you expand on this, perhaps with some evidence.

 

While your view may be right, without some evidence it would be difficult to represent those views.

 

Surely it's the job of those claiming to represent UK culture and the "UK Community" to check their facts ?

 

By default they are claiming to represent me, the evidence lies in the fact that I have spoken up. We must remember than many UK cachers don't post to or even read this forum and some that do won't speak up.

It's a very poor way of gauging "UK culture".

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Moderation has to draw a line somewhere. a bit of leeway or the odd thread slipping through isn't a major issue, but it's not much good complaining when a clearly off-topic thread is locked or deleted.

 

 

I completely agree! The point is that the UK mods have always acted with a great deal of skill and understanding on our forums. If you look back through previous threads, they have always been quick to lock any obviously charity-related ones, without any complaints at all. UK cachers know the guidelines, and the regular posters don't post any that are soliciting. The threads in question, IMO, weren't clearly off topic, as they were a discussion by geocachers about a geocaching team. The charity aspect was incidental. The UK mods had been questioned about it, and had determined that this was a suitable thread for the use of leeway, and being allowed to 'slip through' as you put it! This decision was then summarily over-ruled, which is what everyone is cheesed off about. If TPTB had further discussed with the UK mods and either let their decision stand, or persuaded one of our own mods that the threads needed to be locked, no one would be complaining!

 

Having taken such a hard line against these threads, conformity across the forums is essential in order not to alienate an entire community of cachers...

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By default they are claiming to represent me, the evidence lies in the fact that I have spoken up. We must remember than many UK cachers don't post to or even read this forum and some that do won't speak up.

It's a very poor way of gauging "UK culture".

 

Couldn't agree more.

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The support made in private via email to my former colleagues and myself speaks volumes that we seem to have got things for the benefit of the UK Community mostly right.

 

And I personally do try and listen to what is said by the community. If you check out the pinned topic at the top of the UK Forum, you'll see a list of UK Geocaching Forums.You'll find if you wish to check that I'm a member of each one apart from the UK Geochat and Yahoo Group, and up to very recently visited every single one on a daily basis.

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it seems the uk forum is mild and follows the guidelines a lot more that the American ones do, I find things in there that I've never seen and hope to never see in this forum

 

they gave us political correctness - its just a pity that they never kept it!

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Moderation has to draw a line somewhere. a bit of leeway or the odd thread slipping through isn't a major issue, but it's not much good complaining when a clearly off-topic thread is locked or deleted.

 

 

I completely agree! The point is that the UK mods have always acted with a great deal of skill and understanding on our forums. If you look back through previous threads, they have always been quick to lock any obviously charity-related ones, without any complaints at all. UK cachers know the guidelines, and the regular posters don't post any that are soliciting. The threads in question, IMO, weren't clearly off topic, as they were a discussion by geocachers about a geocaching team. The charity aspect was incidental. The UK mods had been questioned about it, and had determined that this was a suitable thread for the use of leeway, and being allowed to 'slip through' as you put it! This decision was then summarily over-ruled, which is what everyone is cheesed off about. If TPTB had further discussed with the UK mods and either let their decision stand, or persuaded one of our own mods that the threads needed to be locked, no one would be complaining!

 

Having taken such a hard line against these threads, conformity across the forums is essential in order not to alienate an entire community of cachers...

 

At what point does the owner of a site decide to let forum mods rule the roost. The post was clearly off-topic, just as it would be off-topic if I went climbing with a few other cachers and started discussing it here, if we all start doing this it will become very cluttered. If the mods aren't locking threads, sometimes the site owners may have to IMO.

 

If a group of friends want to plan an event such as the commando challenge or a trip to the football on Saturday it can easily be done through email.

 

Personally I don't feel the slighttest bit alienated by the fact that the US has forums full of irrelevant rubbish :lol:

Edited by uktim
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In my professional experience, in times of change, those uncomfortable with the change tend to generate noise inversely proportional to their number. For the times we life in at GC and on the UK forums I believe the term 'silent majority' is a truism.

 

For those leading change, paying too much attention to the noise, can be an enormous derailer.

 

Me? - I'm off caching as suggested :lol::)

 

Nick AKA Daddy Leprechaun

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Now this suggests to me that maybe this isn't a question of consistency I note that again Keystone is at the centre of this (for those who are new search for his posts in Jan 05) and again he is supported by Mtn-man (who proudly states in his tag line Forum moderator when Keystone lets me.)

 

Given the above casn somebody tell me

 

what is going on

I would be happy to discuss those with Groundspeak if you would like me to, but that would also make me include this topic if we are going to really get technical here...

 

The All New All New Groundspeak UK Pub Quiz, Off topic - but lets see how it goes...

 

You tell me. As for the caches, I can do nothing about them. The guidelines tell you to report them to contact@geocaching.com if you are offended.

 

Trust me, I understand the knee-jerk reactions here. In a year, what are you going to think when you look back on this.

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Now this suggests to me that maybe this isn't a question of consistency I note that again Keystone is at the centre of this (for those who are new search for his posts in Jan 05) and again he is supported by Mtn-man (who proudly states in his tag line Forum moderator when Keystone lets me.)

 

Given the above casn somebody tell me

 

what is going on

I would be happy to discuss those with Groundspeak if you would like me to, but that would also make me include this topic if we are going to really get technical here...

 

The All New All New Groundspeak UK Pub Quiz, Off topic - but lets see how it goes...

 

You tell me. As for the caches, I can do nothing about them. The guidelines tell you to report them to contact@geocaching.com if you are offended.

 

Trust me, I understand the knee-jerk reactions here. In a year, what are you going to think when you look back on this.

 

I can see no racism, commercialism, social agenda, political addenda or anything else wrong with the pub quiz, it may be off topic but its within the guidelines

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Mtn-Man wrote

I would be happy to discuss those with Groundspeak if you would like me to,

 

Greg why would you need to discuss with Groundspeak posts within the forum YOU moderate which do not comply with the guidelines. Surely if you and Keystone wish us all to follow the guidelines your own forum should lead the way!!!! Unless there is a reason I cannot see

 

Putting your own house in order might earn you more respect

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Actually, I realize there is absolutely nothing I can do at this point to gain the respect of a few of you, despite trying to post civilly and calmly for the last couple of weeks. You are angry and nothing I can say at this point will change that.

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Mtn-man. I, for one, do respect you, you have remained remarkably calm over the last few weeks.

 

It does, however, seem that the mods from "across the pond" do not like answering perfectly simple, direct questions.

 

Why are such discussions as referenced by the OP allowed on the fora mentioned, but not here?

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Why are such discussions as referenced by the OP allowed on the fora mentioned, but not here?

The one called "Toyota" linked to a bit from the John Daily Show. It was comedy. Can't have that?

The one called "spam filter" is captchas provided by a university group under a grant, free to individuals.

The one called "irs refund" is a reproduction of an email that has been around for years.

 

Yes, all are off topic. Still, the OP did not link to the topic I linked to in this forum that is also off topic that discusses tons and tons of commercial stuff. Double standard? My point is that they *are* allowed here. None dealt with charity topics, which is the whole point of this current issue. Can we stick to the issue?

 

Moving on, the "advert" and "another" links go back to October 2007. Should I also search this forum back that far? (I'll answer that -- NO.) The "oops" one got by. We are not perfect nor do we claim to be. That is why the "REPORT" button is at the bottom of every post. Did you report the post? How is the moderator suppose to know that you find it objectionable?

 

As I said, some are angry and nothing I can say at this point will change that. If we deleted all of that, they would hound around more and find more stuff I'm sure. I accept that there will be no pleasing some of you.

 

And...

 

Benchmarks and trig-points have nothing to do with the forums. The prosecution needs to stay focused.

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Actually, I realize there is absolutely nothing I can do at this point to gain the respect of a few of you, despite trying to post civilly and calmly for the last couple of weeks. You are angry and nothing I can say at this point will change that.

Not at all. You have, as you say, conducted yourself in a very calm and civil manner, as has everyone who has been involved in these various threads. You have my respect for that.

 

As for angry, no, I'm not angry. Annoyed, perhaps. Confused and concerned, definitely.

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[The op was not angey he wanted a reasoned response to what he had found on a single forum - he was not looking for it - just was passing by on a coin issue. which is where he normally posts

 

Only after he came across this did he look at the forum covered by keystone and Mtn man.

 

It was a shame therefore that no reasoned response was received until an hour or so after I had asked miss jenn for her opinion

 

Please be aware that I am not posting anymore on this subject as People are believing me to be divisive when I am trying to be reasoned and reasonable

 

If I have offended anyone or made this seem like a personal attack I apologise unreservedly I have a well defined sense of justice which stimulates my concern and hence my posts

 

See ya :lol:

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Why are such discussions as referenced by the OP allowed on the fora mentioned, but not here?

The one called "Toyota" linked to a bit from the John Daily Show. It was comedy. Can't have that?

The one called "spam filter" is captchas provided by a university group under a grant, free to individuals.

The one called "irs refund" is a reproduction of an email that has been around for years.

 

Yes, all are off topic. Still, the OP did not link to the topic I linked to in this forum that is also off topic that discusses tons and tons of commercial stuff. Double standard? My point is that they *are* allowed here. None dealt with charity topics, which is the whole point of this current issue. Can we stick to the issue?

 

Moving on, the "advert" and "another" links go back to October 2007. Should I also search this forum back that far? (I'll answer that -- NO.) The "oops" one got by. We are not perfect nor do we claim to be. That is why the "REPORT" button is at the bottom of every post. Did you report the post? How is the moderator suppose to know that you find it objectionable?

 

As I said, some are angry and nothing I can say at this point will change that. If we deleted all of that, they would hound around more and find more stuff I'm sure. I accept that there will be no pleasing some of you.

 

And...

 

Benchmarks and trig-points have nothing to do with the forums. The prosecution needs to stay focused.

 

so the one spam filter is the solicitation of money - to me theres no difference between that and giving money to charity

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If anyone wants to find inconsistency in almost any aspect of 21st century life, it's not hard. In the good old days, twenty or so years ago, you needed several bad cases of a company doing something awful and you might just scrape on to "That's Life" if you could work a suggestively-shaped vegetable in there somewhere. These days, it's not hard for a single inconsistency to go round this site within half an hour of it being published. Hang around any US regional forum for a few days and you'll fînd people complaining that XYZ guideline was violated over the other side of the US so "our reviewer is picking on us by enforcing it, the other one should be archived", waah waah.

 

Groundspeak knows that a large group of reviewers are not going to get everything "right", defined perhaps as "the way Jeremy would do it if he had a few dozen clones of himself willing to work for free". They also do not make the reviewer's job harder than it is already by slapping them around for every apparent guideline violation. That's why the contact@ address is there to flag up problems, but I wouldn't expect every case so flagged to be instantly archived the way the person reporting it might like it, any more than if I got a parking ticket the one and only time I overstayed 30 seconds on a meter, I could call traffic HQ every half an hour and expect someone to be sent round to ticket some other violator who is getting away with a 10 minute overstay.

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