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I'm getting fed up!


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:D So, with all these arguements going to and fro, regarding the closure of two threads that our reveiwers deemed to be ok and more importantly the way that they were closed and by whom they were closed.

 

Since that has happened there have been many posts, but i feel we have still not had a satisfactory answer.....from anyone!

Is anyone listening? is anyone going to resolve this issue? :D

 

I am seriously debating archiving all my caches, albeit for a temporary period!

 

I'm fed up with this hard nosed attitude. :D

 

Your thoughts?

Edited by Wadders
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I'm with you on that (except for the archiving bit, as that's a case of "Biting off your nose to spite your face" IMHO), things seem to just be getting worse with mud slinging, accusations and insinuations. None of this is helping to resolve this situation, in fact the resolve from the Groundspeak sides seems to be to dig in for the long haul, and hope it goes away. Is this just reinforcing the views held early on by UK cachers about GS, it certainly is for me.

 

Edit: Just to add that I find it very disappointing that GS are using volunteer reviewers/moderators to try and clean their dirty washing.

Edited by Phillimore Clan
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I'm fed up -

 

I enjoy finding tuppeware boxes with my GPSr.

 

I enjoy events and caching days out with other cachers.

 

I feel chuffed when we raise a few quid for a worthy cause whilst having some fun.

 

What is So wrong with thinking of others, less fortunate than ourselves when we're out having fun?

 

Why on earth any of these leads to two of the most helpful and friendly UK reviewers resigning and 270 Million threads batting the argument to and fro and getting nowhere - I really have no idea...

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I'm in the same quandary as you Wadders. When this 'broke' a couple of weeks ago, I decided to wait to hear the full story before doing anything. I'm still waiting. Nothing I've heard has cast enough light on the situation for me to make a decision yet. If I'd not bought premium membership in March I certainly wouldn't be buying it now, and if I was paying monthly, I'd stop. Apart from not posting to the forums for a week (a minor message to the axis of 'where's my common sense gone?') I can't do much else. I've not cached since the news and I've seriously considered archiving my 100ish active caches. Picking up my geo-litter has been one of the few things stopping me doing this.

 

I don't see this as 'cutting my nose off' - I see it as one of the few things I can do to express my dissatisfaction with how 'my' hobby is being run. Yes, it'd deprive me of logs which I enjoy seeing, and cachers of caches to find- both bad things. On the other hand, it'd deprive Groundspeak of a fraction of British caches, and send the message that they shouldn't forget who makes 'their' game work; finders and setters.

 

I'm also keeping my options open. Should a British/Irish listing site evolve in response to this current lack of finesse by TPTB, I could relist my caches there and not have to have two (or more) days of geo-litter collection. I see GPSHunt.co.uk is available for just £9.99 for two years... The name Geocaching is, of course, subject to trademark. :D

Edited by Simply Paul
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The name Geocaching is, of course, subject to trademark. :D

 

I wonder, firstly, whether it is TM'd in the UK. Probably. Secondly, I think an excellent argument could be made that the term is generic, and is used as a verb. Under UK law, if a trademark has become generic to this extent, its is cancelled. This is why Hoover will come down hard on references to 'doing the hoovering'. The same is true of aspirin, escalator, and thermos. All were once trademarks.

 

just pondering! :D:D

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The name Geocaching is, of course, subject to trademark. :D

Groundspeak forums, 4 Jun 2001, jeremy:

1. Geocaching Trademark - Yes, I did file a trademark for Geocaching. My intent was to protect the name from being trademarked by some other entity, and enforced to remove the use of geocaching as the name of the game. If you check out netsaint.org (great program, by the way), you'll see the result of not claiming a trademark. Fortunately, the game has gotten enough press and the name is now widespread enough where it is unnecessary to protect the name. Therefore I am no longer pursuing the trademark, except as it related to sales of goods with the Geocaching logo designed by Grounded, Inc. You are free to use the word geocaching in any form you like. However, any creative of mine (logo, "you are the search engine" quote) is owned by Grounded, Inc. and me. Feel free to make your own logo and quote for the sport if you like. If you create a fan site and want to use my logo, as long as you have it link back to me I'm fine with it - just let me know out of common courtesy.

My emphasis.

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I am seriously debating archiving all my caches, albeit for a temporary period!

.......

 

Your thoughts?

My advice - DON'T

 

Whatever has and is happening, those lunchboxes in the woods still need finding. Without caches like yours what am I going to do in my spare time? :D

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I think we just need to calm down a little. For sure the two mods who "chose to close" did so for their own good reasons. Agree or not, GS will go on, and I think the notion of GSUK.com or otherwise, would be great for about a week.

 

And folks wouldn't be able to find "Dave"

 

Paul

 

P5040139.jpg

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I'd have to say no. It would be a shame if that happened or if we had a UK based site, we really would then be guilty of the accusation that is being made in thinking locally.

 

The advantages of one site are very high and I am still optimistic that progress is there to be made.

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:) To a certain extent i do agree with Wadders, but i also do enjoy going out finding plastic boxes and even went out and found a few yesterday.

 

There is no easy way to solve these problems with Groundspeak, perhaps they ought to look very hard at the split they are causing between the uk and the us, and also the gap is getting wider every day.

No one is going to let this drop and will take a long time to heal relations between all the parties.

 

I am also pretty disgusted that Groundspeak themselves have not answered our questions and used volunteer reviewers to do so. :lol:

 

I have always promoted Groundspeak over different things, eg magazine articles, short documentary but never again......

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Two choices.....

1. Throw all your toys out of your pram and walk away.

2. Try and work with Groundspeak to come to balanced and resonable agreements over issues.

 

Mandy has proven with her calendars that the second option can and does work.

 

Can't we move on now??? :) I mean at the end of the day are a few plastic boxes hidden in the woods really worth all this bitching and stress????? :lol:

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For my ten penneth - I say don't archive the caches. Yes - people have been upset. But there are many many people who do not frequent the forums and all they'll see is one of the Southwest's more prolific cachers removing all their caches! Us lot in the forums might be more aware of a situation but there are many hundreds of people who are in blissful ignorance. Removing caches will hurt them more than TPTB.

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I agree with what previous posters have said - archiving UK caches will hurt UK cachers, no-one else. It might end up costing GS a few quid in premium memberships - if PMs decide not to renew because there aren't may caches in their area - but that's about all.

 

I 100% agree that the whole thing is very frustrating, and I think that GS are being unfair on UK cachers, especially following Jan and the Percy Boys' post this morning: But the funny thing is, I went caching yesterday, and finding lunchboxes hidden in the woods was just as much fun as it had ever been.

 

The current situation has to be resolved, and I can't see how that's going to happen as long at TPTB are hiding behind volunteer mods who are doing their best, but don't actually have the authority to change anything*. But destroying what's left of our hobby isn't the way forward.

 

*No disrespect to dino-irl, Mtn-man and the other non-UK reviewers who are here and helping out, and providing explanations and advice as best they can. Guys, we appreciate your efforts - but I think TPTB are being unfair to you, in getting you to handle the flak from a situation they've caused.

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We agree with Mouse & Scottpa on this - please don't forget that only a tiny minority of UK cachers use or even know about the forum and hence the current problems. Keep those caches up and running for all to ENJOY!

 

I (H) sometimes get the feeling that the forum winds its self up with certain issues, and while some will say its like being an ostrich, we should let some of these things pass, as they will, without getting too emotional.

 

We are far from happy with the situation, mainly because it now seems to be dividing UK cachers into two groups, which can't be good for anybody.

 

Might we suggest that you pick some quality caches in lovely areas and get out there and find them, the world will seem a better place!

 

Best wishes,

 

L&H

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Two choices.....

1. Throw all your toys out of your pram and walk away.

2. Try and work with Groundspeak to come to balanced and resonable agreements over issues.

 

 

3. Continue to release new caches - but on another listing site. The caches will still be out there for UK cachers to find ... they just won't up your GC tally when you find them - and I think that'll be the killer for a lot of people. Depends whether you're caching for love of caching, or to up your numbers.

Edited by keehotee
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Two choices.....

1. Throw all your toys out of your pram and walk away.

2. Try and work with Groundspeak to come to balanced and resonable agreements over issues.

 

 

3. Continue to release new caches - but on another listing site. The caches will still be out there for UK cachers to find ... they just won't up your GC tally when you find them - and I think that'll be the killer for a lot of people. Depends whether you're caching for love of caching, or to up your numbers.

 

Do that if you want Tim but I'll not go looking for them. I'll probably still be trying to find your Commando Challenge multi-cache in 6 months time anyway. Yes folks, I did say COMMANDO CHALLENGE, but it's a geocache, ok? :lol::)

 

I'm seriously considering having a break from the forums until all this blows over (which it will).

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3. Continue to release new caches - but on another listing site. The caches will still be out there for UK cachers to find ... they just won't up your GC tally when you find them - and I think that'll be the killer for a lot of people. Depends whether you're caching for love of caching, or to up your numbers.

 

Shot self in foot I think!

 

If you're doing it for the "love of geocaching" why would you want to create a splinter group, that would enevitably split into another one or two groups. (Because even mild mannered geocachers will get power hungry)

 

Take a chill pill, or a blue one, and go to bed early. :lol:

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I'm in the same quandary as you Wadders. When this 'broke' a couple of weeks ago, I decided to wait to hear the full story before doing anything. I'm still waiting. Nothing I've heard has cast enough light on the situation for me to make a decision yet. If I'd not bought premium membership in March I certainly wouldn't be buying it now, and if I was paying monthly, I'd stop. Apart from not posting to the forums for a week (a minor message to the axis of 'where's my common sense gone?') I can't do much else. I've not cached since the news and I've seriously considered archiving my 100ish active caches. Picking up my geo-litter has been one of the few things stopping me doing this.

 

I don't see this as 'cutting my nose off' - I see it as one of the few things I can do to express my dissatisfaction with how 'my' hobby is being run. Yes, it'd deprive me of logs which I enjoy seeing, and cachers of caches to find- both bad things. On the other hand, it'd deprive Groundspeak of a fraction of British caches, and send the message that they shouldn't forget who makes 'their' game work; finders and setters.

 

I'm also keeping my options open. Should a British/Irish listing site evolve in response to this current lack of finesse by TPTB, I could relist my caches there and not have to have two (or more) days of geo-litter collection. I see GPSHunt.co.uk is available for just £9.99 for two years... The name Geocaching is, of course, subject to trademark. :P

 

I just googled that web address and there is no such place. The only reference I could find to it is your post here. Are you sure of your facts?

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To be honest I'm getting a little fed up with all this as well. I'm not long at this game and to see this all breaking out lately is leaving rather a bad taste in my mouth .

What I'm about to say probably won't make me any friends but I think it needs to be said.

Groundspeak have IMHO been very generous in giving everyone their say on this forum - many other forums would have deleted the posts and banned the posters by now.

What has happened is in my opinion a matter between the two members who resigned and Groundspeak .

Groundspeak started this - it's their game and we choose to play it . As far as I see it if you want to play you play by their rules if you don't like them then go elsewhere or get yourself another hobby.

Honestly people it's time to make a decision - Play the game by the rules laid down or if you don't like it go and set up your own version of the game and take your chances with it.

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In reply to Wadders OP.

 

Don't do it, Geocaching isn't these forums and these forums isn't Geocaching. Geocaching is about hiding/hunting little (or large) boxes. While I think that there are some serious questions still outstanding about the way the forum has gone over the last week or so I don't think that it should cross over into regular caching. If you had said "I'm hinking of not participating in the forums any more" then fair enough, but archiving your caches - no.

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Cant see who would be hurt by archiving your caches, however as a peacful protest why not place a cache or two with Pub names near a Pub that may or may not seve nice cool chilled beer, or this being the UK warm beer. That way we will benefit by having more caches to find and those who want to protest can have a nice peaceful (chill pill) type protest.

Maybe even start a series of nationwide caches.

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:o So, with all these arguements going to and fro, regarding the closure of two threads that our reveiwers deemed to be ok and more importantly the way that they were closed and by whom they were closed.

 

Since that has happened there have been many posts, but i feel we have still not had a satisfactory answer.....from anyone!

Is anyone listening? is anyone going to resolve this issue? ;)

 

I am seriously debating archiving all my caches, albeit for a temporary period!

 

I'm fed up with this hard nosed attitude. :D

 

Your thoughts?

 

With so many distractions mixed up in the useful contributions, it's not going to help get an answer. We should Cache as normal and let things evolve.

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To be honest I'm getting a little fed up with all this as well. I'm not long at this game and to see this all breaking out lately is leaving rather a bad taste in my mouth .

What I'm about to say probably won't make me any friends but I think it needs to be said.

Groundspeak have IMHO been very generous in giving everyone their say on this forum - many other forums would have deleted the posts and banned the posters by now.

What has happened is in my opinion a matter between the two members who resigned and Groundspeak .

Groundspeak started this - it's their game and we choose to play it . As far as I see it if you want to play you play by their rules if you don't like them then go elsewhere or get yourself another hobby.

Honestly people it's time to make a decision - Play the game by the rules laid down or if you don't like it go and set up your own version of the game and take your chances with it.

Absolutely you have the right to express your opinion here and you are very welcome to do so. It's good to hear an alternative view of events.

 

Just to comment on a couple of your points.

 

You say that Groundspeak are generous to allow us to discuss the matter and you sound surprised that views opposing them are allowed. I would point you to the Forum Guidelines which lay down what can be said and how. There is nothing there about having to support their point of view so I would be surprised if they resorted to censorship of this discussion. Mind you, those guidelines are open to interpretation in other areas so I guess it could be argued that to maintain some sort of consistency with what has happened that restrictions might have been applied. I'm pleased they haven't though. I can assure you that if the various threads discussing the present troubles hadn't been conducted in the civil and adult manner, which in general they have, they would have been closed quickly.

 

You also state that the problems are a matter between me (and Eckington) and Groundspeak. That's not entirely true as we were "employed", with Deceangi, to be responsible for reviewing all caches to be placed in the UK. We also had to keep some sort of order in this forum which you admit works well. What we did affect how the whole game is played over here. The reasons for us feeling we could not continue have been well documented but suffice it to say that we could not support the direction in which Groundspeak wanted the game to go. This is a much wider matter than just a disagreement between the two of us and Groundspeak.

 

I agree with you that to play a game without rules is probably not a good idea but remember that Geocaching is mainly governed by Guidelines, not rules, and these are open to interpretation. It is that interpretation which is the crux of the matter. If you were to consider the Groundspeak guidelines as rules and play exactly as they are written I can assure you that the game over here would bear little resemblance to one you have become used to.

 

Please don't think I'm getting at you, I'm not, I welcome open discussion, but I wanted you to understand a little better where I'm coming from.

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If you were to consider the Groundspeak guidelines as rules and play exactly as they are written I can assure you that the game over here would bear little resemblance to one you have become used to.

 

 

Could you please explain this. It would be interested to know how it would be different. I mean you hide a cache and others search for the cache. I have done a few caches in other contries including the US and it seems that its the same. If the guidelines were rules would this make such a big difference?

Just curious.

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I am seriously debating archiving all my caches, albeit for a temporary period!

 

I'm fed up with this hard nosed attitude. ;)

 

Your thoughts?

 

Simple suggestion - give up the forums, rather than give up geocaching - which is what archiving caches, or registering them where no one reads them amount to.

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I'm in the same quandary as you Wadders. When this 'broke' a couple of weeks ago, I decided to wait to hear the full story before doing anything. I'm still waiting. Nothing I've heard has cast enough light on the situation for me to make a decision yet. If I'd not bought premium membership in March I certainly wouldn't be buying it now, and if I was paying monthly, I'd stop. Apart from not posting to the forums for a week (a minor message to the axis of 'where's my common sense gone?') I can't do much else. I've not cached since the news and I've seriously considered archiving my 100ish active caches. Picking up my geo-litter has been one of the few things stopping me doing this.

 

I don't see this as 'cutting my nose off' - I see it as one of the few things I can do to express my dissatisfaction with how 'my' hobby is being run. Yes, it'd deprive me of logs which I enjoy seeing, and cachers of caches to find- both bad things. On the other hand, it'd deprive Groundspeak of a fraction of British caches, and send the message that they shouldn't forget who makes 'their' game work; finders and setters.

 

I'm also keeping my options open. Should a British/Irish listing site evolve in response to this current lack of finesse by TPTB, I could relist my caches there and not have to have two (or more) days of geo-litter collection. I see GPSHunt.co.uk is available for just £9.99 for two years... The name Geocaching is, of course, subject to trademark. :D

 

Really saddened that Paul feels this way and has archived the first of his caches. Whilst I can not often get to Simply Paul territory I have greatly enjoyed the 7 I have found, I just hope there is an imminent resolve such that I get a chance at the 99 98 unfound Simply Paul caches currently available for me to find. :D

 

I personally don't think archiving is the best option, and can see it creating major frustration to UK cachers who work from listings even a day or two old, and may only find that the cache has been archived when they return home. ;)

 

We do not want to lose the talents of cache setters / geocaching promoters such as Paul, Groundspeak please resolve the underlying issues quickly. :D

Edited by Malpas Wanderer
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