Coin speculation

4.2k · April 28, 2008

In talking with some folks recently, and looking at some of the recent threads about "the way it used to be" verus "the way it is now" it got me thinking about the current state of some coins and their perceived value today.

In the past, very HTF coins would sell on eBay for anywhere from $300 - $1,000 dollars, and I'm curious if that's still the case. With so many new people here and likely few of them knowing about some of the older coins, I wonder what their value would be today.

(No, I'm planning on selling any - I'm not testing the waters)

1. I recall the orignal MIGO Seasonal coins going for $300 + - do you think they would still fetch that?

2. Moun10Bike V1 went for over $1,000 ($1,300??) - would it still get that much? Why or why not?

3. What recent coins (past couple o' years) do you think would fetch $300 - $500?

I know we recently saw a YemonYime version of the Compass Rose go for ~$250 (and that was really recent).

What do you think?

April 28, 2008

nice thread. i'm interested in what the others think.

just a guess: maybe a darthi v2 coin???

1.3k · April 28, 2008

I can't comment on the worth of the particular coins that you mentioned and can't say if someone paid too much or not. I can only say that for myself, I would have a hard time paying more than say $30 for a coin.

I'm not a hard core collector and while I would love to own these coins, I just couldn't justify paying that kind of money. Of course, I'm not in a financial position that I could even entertain the idea of paying those prices either.

2k · April 28, 2008

I don't think coins would go for those kind of prices today unless they were being auctioned off for charity.

A Moun10bike V1 would probably still go pretty high. I don't know if it would hit the $1300 mark though. (When I see what those were going for I remember finding one in a cache, logging it, and moving it on. It disappeared not to long after that)

8k · April 28, 2008

In the last few months I have seen the original MIGO Seasonals go for $30-50 on ebay so they were a veritable bargain compared to the olden days. I also heard of someone trading a Moun10bike and got coins in total that would fetch $1000 on ebay now. Its really hard to say though. There are only a few coins I would consider paying $30 for but maybe if I were working that might change. How about a waypoint 15? I've never seen one--well maybe on the poker table at the MWGB or a Wandering Dragon? Think those might fetch a pretty penny.

2k · April 28, 2008

I don't think coins would go for those kind of prices today unless they were being auctioned off for charity.

A Moun10bike V1 would probably still go pretty high. I don't know if it would hit the $1300 mark though. (When I see what those were going for I remember finding one in a cache, logging it, and moving it on. It disappeared not to long after that)

1.5k · April 28, 2008

...beanie babies went for prices like that at one time too.

9.8k · April 28, 2008

Migo 2005 Seasonals are lucky to fetch $100 each now.

The M10B Ver 1 would still get 1K.

4.2k · April 28, 2008

just a guess: maybe a darthi v2 coin???

Is there high-demand for this coin? I know it's somewhat rare in the sense that it was made in limited numbers, but is there really a demand for it?

In the last few months I have seen the original MIGO Seasonals go for $30-50 on ebay so they were a veritable bargain compared to the olden days.

Wow, that is a deal IMO.

How about a waypoint 15? I've never seen one--well maybe on the poker table at the MWGB or a Wandering Dragon? Think those might fetch a pretty penny.

I was thinking about those, too.

I guess I'm just curious to see if what used to be really valuable still was.

And maybe it's interesting for some (newer) people to hear that a coin sold for over $1,000 at one time.

1.7k · April 28, 2008

I'm sorry - I don't care WHAT coin it is. I'd never pay more than $30 for a coin. Even $30 seems a bit ridiculous to me. I have a hard time justifying $15 for a coin. (even though I have done it.)

4.2k · April 28, 2008

Migo 2005 Seasonals are lucky to fetch $100 each now.

The M10B Ver 1 would still get 1K.

I was thinking it would, too. What do you base that on? You think the older crowd would be the ones bidding for this or do you think some newer people would want a piece of history like this? I'm not sure how "pretty" they'd think it was given all the new design techniques...

April 28, 2008

If I remember correctly I saw a Templar Two Tone for more than $200.

9.8k · April 28, 2008

Migo 2005 Seasonals are lucky to fetch $100 each now.

The M10B Ver 1 would still get 1K.

I was thinking it would, too. What do you base that on? You think the older crowd would be the ones bidding for this or do you think some newer people would want a piece of history like this? I'm not sure how "pretty" they'd think it was given all the new design techniques...

It's the first ever personal trackable with custom icon. In collectibles the first and the last are always the most sought after. I also think it depends on the seller and the context of the sale. An example was a recent version 2 that was ebayed and went far below what I would think market value for that coin is. Check your PM.

April 28, 2008

Migo 2005 Seasonals are lucky to fetch $100 each now.

The M10B Ver 1 would still get 1K.

I was thinking it would, too. What do you base that on? You think the older crowd would be the ones bidding for this or do you think some newer people would want a piece of history like this? I'm not sure how "pretty" they'd think it was given all the new design techniques...

I'm pretty new and I would like to have that piece of history. But at the moment would not be able to afford.

Design is important. Why buying coins I don't like? But it is also the message or story behind a coin that makes it interesting.

April 28, 2008

I like shiny hunks of metal, but there is NO WAY I would ever pay 300 - 1300 for a coin. I will donate to charity. There is just too many other things that I can think of to spend that kind of money on. Hmm a new Garmin COLORADO is the 1st thing that comes to mind. (once they get the bugs worked out) Good topic, but I would think that the opinions of others will vary due to the amount of discretionary funds they have. Jodi

April 28, 2008

I've only been collecting since about February, so I can't say much about "the good old days", but I have seen the Yemon Yime and a 2008 Compass Rose Sample coin (I was fortunate enough to get one of each) both run in the few hundred dollar range, and the 2005 Compass Rose went for a shade over a hundred dollars a couple of times. I just checked Ebay's past listings. Of the 2429 auctions listed, The two highest were the Yemon Yime Compass Rose (highest price at $255.00), followed by a charity auction for a TnT Geofairy coin that raised $113.50. From there is starts going down hill pretty quickly. The 2008 Compass Roses in Black Nickel are around $75 - $100.

I think the truly HTF collectors coins are great, and I take great pride in the few that I've been able to get my hands on, but I really like the availability of beutifully designed affordable coins. Whatever interests you, you can find something that will make you smile. I dabble in large format photography and this afternoon I found a LF coin with a quote from Ansel Adams on the back - I think it had a BIN price of $12-13 plus S&H. How can you beat that?

If I get off my lazy bum (can I say that here?), I have some ideas for making a couple of my own coins that I think would sell to a fairly wide audience. I would probably make a collector version, but would first like to make something affordable that anyone interested could buy, and not be torn about putting into a cache to travel becuase of the money they "invested" in the coin itself. Shouldn't a part of geocoins be the fun of releasing your little ones into the wild and watch them run around?

But yes, I can see the exceptional coin here and there going for over a grand. For the most part though, with so many variations to choose from, the market seems a little flooded right now. Ebay, typically has about 1000 to choose from; with the more desirable ones going from $50-$300 (with a little streatch), and of course new ones are introduced all the time.

Edited April 28, 2008 by nashuan

8.9k · April 28, 2008

I feel fortunate to hold a V3, IF I had the money (big if there), I'd bid pretty high for a V1 (of course, the sales would have to be with Moun10Bike's approval)! I wouldn't say I'm a newbie, but not all that old either!

I recently bid up to $100 for a Yime (might have been a Uranium) and wasn't even close. I'd love to own a Yime!

Edited April 28, 2008 by Rockin Roddy

9.8k · April 28, 2008

just a guess: maybe a darthi v2 coin???

Is there high-demand for this coin? I know it's somewhat rare in the sense that it was made in limited numbers, but is there really a demand for it?

It's a cute design first and second he only trades them in person. Since he's a German cacher, for US people that means Geowoodstock trades only, and only if you have something he wants. I got mine from someone who was selling off their collection.

24.7k · April 28, 2008

...What do you think?

In an ocean of unremarkable coins anything that stands out will be worth more than ever. However most coins are just a drop in the ocean and worth less than ever.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Renegade Knight

1k · April 28, 2008

just a guess: maybe a darthi v2 coin???

Is there high-demand for this coin? I know it's somewhat rare in the sense that it was made in limited numbers, but is there really a demand for it?

It's a cute design first and second he only trades them in person. Since he's a German cacher, for US people that means Geowoodstock trades only, and only if you have something he wants. I got mine from someone who was selling off their collection.

The V2 Darthi Dark is very highly sought after. The last one (V2) I saw on ebay went for more than $80 with 1/2 an hour to go so I know it went for more....that's when I decided to go back and finish watching the soccer game instead of getting depressed because I just can't bring myself to bid that high.

As stated earlier a 2007 Compass Rose LE went for over $250 recently and I think I remember the Copper XLE one of a kind went for much more.

The GSA #3 was charity auctioned for $297.00.

8.1k · April 28, 2008

The MIGO seasonals usually fetch $75

A v2 Moun10 bike about 3 weeks ago and it fetched $460.00

Yeah, I would say a moun10bike v1 would fetch $1000

Some of the other older coins have fetched some pretty hefty prices Federation, First Finders Dance, Pi Maths, Lemon Fresh Dog bones...

But I don't think the prices are anywhere close to the 2006 buyers binge.

4.2k · April 28, 2008

But yes, I can see the exceptional coin here and there going for over a grand. For the most part though, with so many variations to choose from, the market seems a little flooded right now.

That was my thought as well, that's why I opened the thread to see what others thought.

In an ocean of unremarkable coins anything that stands out will be worth more than ever. However most coins are just a drop in the ocean and worth less than ever.

Spoken from somebody who's been around for a while for sure!

The V2 Darthi Dark is very highly sought after. The last one (V2) I saw on ebay went for more than $80 with 1/2 an hour to go so I know it went for more....that's when I decided to go back and finish watching the soccer game instead of getting depressed because I just can't bring myself to bid that high.

As stated earlier a 2007 Compass Rose LE went for over $250 recently and I think I remember the Copper XLE one of a kind went for much more.

The GSA #3 was charity auctioned for $297.00.

Interesting. I should have posted that charity auctions weren't included in my thoughts right now.

4.2k · April 28, 2008

The MIGO seasonals usually fetch $75

A v2 Moun10 bike about 3 weeks ago and it fetched $460.00

Yeah, I would say a moun10bike v1 would fetch $1000

Some of the other older coins have fetched some pretty hefty prices Federation, First Finders Dance, Pi Maths, Lemon Fresh Dog bones...

But I don't think the prices are anywhere close to the 2006 buyers binge.

I hadn't thought about 'dem bones. That was one of the first shaped coins, was it not?

8.1k · April 28, 2008

The MIGO seasonals usually fetch $75

A v2 Moun10 bike about 3 weeks ago and it fetched $460.00

Yeah, I would say a moun10bike v1 would fetch $1000

Some of the other older coins have fetched some pretty hefty prices Federation, First Finders Dance, Pi Maths, Lemon Fresh Dog bones...

But I don't think the prices are anywhere close to the 2006 buyers binge.

I hadn't thought about 'dem bones. That was one of the first shaped coins, was it not?

Yep, it was a truly unique design for it's time. Of course everything is shaped now...

4.2k · April 28, 2008

Agreed. Maybe this thread is going to serve another purpose.

Maybe as we talk about these older coins it will enlighten some of the newer folks to thier existance and importance and thereby drive prices up because more people will want them.

Note, that I only call out "newer folks" because many of them (you) were not around when a lot of these coins were popular and available. I mean no disrespect.

So are we thinking that DHobby and Team Fisur are also in this bucket and still worth a lot of money as well?

I don't think the flood of new coins takes away from the value of the older ones, except for when the collectors themselves leave because of it (the flooding of the market).

I don't think the mere existance of new and many coins depreciates the older ones.

1.3k · April 28, 2008

It's interesting that we talk about the value of the older coins yet in recent times - it's a couple of relatively new coins that were getting some top dollar bids. Maybe it is because many new collectors aren't aware of the history behind those older coins and of course we just don't see too many of the them show up on ebay. I'm also not convinced that ebay is the best place to get a sense for value?

Now, I personally think there are a lot of coins on the market today. I can't afford to buy them all but I'm not so sure that the market is flooded. Flooded from the perspective of a few years ago, sure. But the coins are still selling out for the most part. I think you would agree that there are many more cachers/collectors than there were even a year ago and it looks like they can absorb the quantities - at least for now. So there are a lot of coins but I think there is room for them. I just don't think it's as "nostalgic" as it once was and maybe that keeps the prices down?

4.2k · April 28, 2008

As an interesting side note to this thread. When I was trying to track down a Moun10Bike V1 a number of years ago, the person who had it (that was no longer caching) must have realized that I really wanted. After exchanging a few emails he offered it to me for $25.00.

At the time I responded like most people probably would have at the time: "$25.00 for a geocoin? Thanks, but no thanks"

1k · April 28, 2008

As an interesting side note to this thread. When I was trying to track down a Moun10Bike V1 a number of years ago, the person who had it (that was no longer caching) must have realized that I really wanted. After exchanging a few emails he offered it to me for $25.00.

At the time I responded like most people probably would have at the time: "$25.00 for a geocoin? Thanks, but no thanks"

I am most curious. Have the bruises ever healed from kicking yourself?

2k · April 28, 2008

Agreed. Maybe this thread is going to serve another purpose.

Maybe as we talk about these older coins it will enlighten some of the newer folks to their existence and importance and thereby drive prices up because more people will want them.

I think that introducing the older coins to the newer collectors is a good idea, it's one of those things that if you've not been exposed to them.. ya just don't know, and the more ya know.. the more ya know.

Note, that I only call out "newer folks" because many of them were not around when a lot of these coins were popular and available. I mean no disrespect.

Wow.. agree with Kealia.. check self for head trauma...

So are we thinking that DHobby and Team Fisur are also in this bucket and still worth a lot of money as well?
I don't think the flood of new coins takes away from the value of the older ones, except for when the collectors themselves leave because of it (the flooding of the market).

I don't think the mere existance of new and many coins depreciates the older ones.

I think this statement is a two way street.. the mere flood of new coins won't make the older ones any less important or valuable, they're always gonna be a big part of this hobby. But.. in the same breath.. the rarity and value of the older ones definitely don't make the newer ones any less appealing or valuable. IMO

9.8k · April 28, 2008

A lot of good older coins have taken a nosedive on eBay recently. It's a good time to pick up those coins for your collection since many are going at a fairly reasonable price.

1.5k · April 29, 2008

The 2008 Alaska silver, gold relief and gold coins sold for $35, $55, and $1095, respectively, on the primary market.

1.4k · April 29, 2008

I think the first geocaching shot glass would bring in close to 15 dollars . Its one of a kind and rare, I think.

3.8k · April 29, 2008

As an interesting side note to this thread. When I was trying to track down a Moun10Bike V1 a number of years ago, the person who had it (that was no longer caching) must have realized that I really wanted. After exchanging a few emails he offered it to me for $25.00.

At the time I responded like most people probably would have at the time: "$25.00 for a geocoin? Thanks, but no thanks"

I am most curious. Have the bruises ever healed from kicking yourself?

1.9k · April 29, 2008

Yeah, I just thought of this very question this weekend!!!

I was thinkin about The Lemon Fresh Geo-Bone and when I first started into coins I remember these were goin fer a bunch when they did go on ebay if I remember right.

I wondered if many would even know of this coin and if it would fetch the same dollarage in this day and age...a mear year later!

I have found, even though I havent been checkin ebay much that the recent coins that sell out go for a huge ammount...even more than a rare coin that raked in huge dollars last year, I dont think would go for the same.

I would only presume that a Moun10Bike would sell for more than 1000.00 today, just because EVERYONE knows bout the Bike!

Interesting topic

1.3k · April 29, 2008

When I was trying to track down a Moun10Bike V1 a number of years ago, the person who had it (that was no longer caching) must have realized that I really wanted. After exchanging a few emails he offered it to me for $25.00.

At the time I responded like most people probably would have at the time: "$25.00 for a geocoin? Thanks, but no thanks"

ME TOO!!! Quite a while back when I first started, I was offered a Moun10Bike v3 (not so rare though) for $30, and I did the whole "$30 for a geocoin, I dont think so!" routine. Dufus!!

I have seen the price (worth?) of geocoins do crazy things in the past. I sold a silver Red Scout Knife on eBay for $225.50 when others of the same type were going for $60. If they were put on now, they'd probably only go for $30.

The Moun10Bike v1 would still sell for a lot of money, and the LFD Geobone would probably still get high numbers, as would the two tone 24 carat gold 07 and 08 Compass Roses. A YIME would sell well....it seems that there are certain coins that the 'older' coiners still want and have their eyes on so they would bid high for them.

But then there are surprising coins - like the Templars (which I hankered for) which sold for relatively huge amounts on eBay, even while the second remint was freely available for quarter of the price in the webstore. People were still trading them like they were rare. Although that said, I would go mad over a two-tone Templar if it went up on eBay

But all that being said, please dont bid low on my gold Boomerang thats ending in a few hours :lol: :lol:

People seem to be going for AE's these days rather than old coins....but I may be wrong.... :lol:

1.4k · April 29, 2008

As an interesting side note to this thread. When I was trying to track down a Moun10Bike V1 a number of years ago, the person who had it (that was no longer caching) must have realized that I really wanted. After exchanging a few emails he offered it to me for $25.00.

At the time I responded like most people probably would have at the time: "$25.00 for a geocoin? Thanks, but no thanks"

I am most curious. Have the bruises ever healed from kicking yourself?

I've seen the Shop99er's go for a hefty price on ebay.

April 29, 2008

I started Geocaching and collecting coins in October 2007 and daren't even work out how much I have spent on ebay. The most I paid was for an artist edition Earth Turtle, at $110. I wouldn't buy a coin if I didn't like the design no matter how rare it was.

1.1k · April 29, 2008

what - no one thought of buying the coinback for mbike at those prices!? I remember twinpeaks paid 4 figures and gave it back to him. I heartily agree the newbs need educating someone wanted my EB$40 coin as part of a multi coin trade for their personal....eesh

1.3k · April 29, 2008

Aah but it's a learning experience I think we've all done at least one ridiculous thing when we were newbies!

But I'm still learning....I still cant haggle like the old pro's

1.1k · April 29, 2008

yeah tell me about it! I think my second purchase was something like a mystery coin! and it was so much cheaper on ebay than 'haggling' with an old old timer

oh the topic sorry:

1. I recall the orignal MIGO Seasonal coins going for $300 + - do you think they would still fetch that? NO

2. Moun10Bike V1 went for over $1,000 ($1,300??) - would it still get that much? Why or why not? One would hope not but one is born every minute .... and GC keep SHUTTING DOWN ANY THREAD THAT MIGHT STOP IT HAPPENING aiding and abbetting I call it ahem cough hairball

3. What recent coins (past couple o' years) do you think would fetch $300 - $500? With the weak dollar perhaps it's some rich european's small change ummm any mystery coin except the highland geofairy. The big rock meteorite i - now is that a mysterycoin or a personal?

Edited April 29, 2008 by forthferalz

3k · April 29, 2008

I think the geocoins demand is much like the stockmarket and right now we're in a recession. It doesn't mean it's all going to fall apart though. In fact, we probably need this little reality check for the continuing health of geocoin world. I concur that this is an excellent time to get your paws on some coins that were excedingly hard to get for awhile there. For me geocoins are worth whatever memories I associate with them. I'd trade a rare coin quickly for a common coin that appeals to me (and often do - lol) that I don't have yet. I think this true in more cases than most people realize. We want the coins we love that we don't have yet and trades are so much easier to arrange than we often realize. We might not get every coin we're looking for, but you might be surpised at the offers that do show up

On a side note, I'm completely flabergasted when I see a F&tH coin on ebay going for a high price (or any price above the initial offering) because it's "sold out" when the bidder never even asked if I still have any for trade. It's even worse when I recognize the bidder It's nice to know there is still a demand for your personal, but I'd much rather arrange a trade than see someone overpay.

So I guess I'm pretty happy with the state of coins, the prices (money or trades) that I've shelled out and the friends I've made. Some things are harder than others to put a tag on, but I think so far it's been worth every minute and I'm looking forward to more of the same.

8.1k · April 29, 2008

I sold most of my collection for charity in early 2006, since getting back into coins it has been fun to try and reacquire many of the older coins (some of which I had, others of which I never had). There is a legacy which goes with each coin, sure, most coin collectors wouldn't give a passing glance to the coins with no color, no glitter and no shapes, but for me the history in them is interesting.

April 29, 2008

what - no one thought of buying the coinback for mbike at those prices!? I remember twinpeaks paid 4 figures and gave it back to him. I heartily agree the newbs need educating someone wanted my EB$40 coin as part of a multi coin trade for their personal....eesh

Well it might help the noobs if we knew what the dickens an EB$40 was for a start !

4.2k · April 29, 2008

what - no one thought of buying the coinback for mbike at those prices!? I remember twinpeaks paid 4 figures and gave it back to him. I heartily agree the newbs need educating someone wanted my EB$40 coin as part of a multi coin trade for their personal....eesh

Well it might help the noobs if we knew what the dickens an EB$40 was for a start !

If it makes you feel better, I have no idea what that is either...

April 29, 2008

what - no one thought of buying the coinback for mbike at those prices!? I remember twinpeaks paid 4 figures and gave it back to him. I heartily agree the newbs need educating someone wanted my EB$40 coin as part of a multi coin trade for their personal....eesh

Well it might help the noobs if we knew what the dickens an EB$40 was for a start !

If it makes you feel better, I have no idea what that is either...

Much better

4.2k · April 29, 2008

oh the topic sorry:

1. I recall the orignal MIGO Seasonal coins going for $300 + - do you think they would still fetch that? NO

Based on what I've heard/seen about recent eBay sales you may be right here.

I'm thinking that some reasons some of these might not sell for as much these days:

1) Many more coins on eBay so when one does come up for sale, it's harder to find - thus fewer bidders = lower prices

2) Back then it was possible to have a COMPLETE collection of every coin out there. Now, well let's just say that it's not likely

3) The coins IMO had more meaning (the first coin, the first non-round coin, etc. and maybe that mean more back then?

4.4k · April 29, 2008

Financial speculation:

Involves the buying, holding, selling, and short-selling of stocks, bonds, commodities, currencies, collectibles, real estate, derivatives, or any valuable financial instrument to profit from fluctuations in its price as opposed to buying it for use or for income via methods such as dividends or interest.

Speculation or agiotage represents one of four market roles in Western financial markets, distinct from hedging, long or short-term investing, and arbitrage.

Most non-professional traders lose money on speculation, while those who do make money tend to become professionals.

Now to speculate on geocoins is just as much a part of the market as stocks and bonds...etc.

With the fall in the economy so the fall in the overall pice of these instruments.

People just do not have the finances they did say even a year ago.

Now another speculation:

When people start recieving those checks from the Govt. there will be a slight rise in the coin buying.

If you had a way to graph it you would probably see it.

It all boils down to SAYS Law:

Say’s Law or Say’s Law of Markets is a principle attributed to French businessman and economist Jean-Baptiste Say (1767-1832) stating that there can be no demand without supply.

A central element of Say's Law is that recession does not occur because of failure in demand or lack of money. The more goods (for which there is demand) that are produced, the more those goods (supply) can constitute a demand for other goods. For this reason, prosperity should be increased by stimulating production, not consumption. In Say's view, creation of more money simply results in inflation; more money demanding the same quantity of goods does not represent an increase in real demand.

It is just a fluctuation in the market right now for geocoins in my opinion.

April 29, 2008

Agreed. Maybe this thread is going to serve another purpose.

Maybe as we talk about these older coins it will enlighten some of the newer folks to thier existance and importance and thereby drive prices up because more people will want them.

Good idea as I have many older coins that I'm thinking about selling for the "send blazerfan to geo-woodstock" fund. I'm going anyway, but it wouldn't hurt to have some gas money.

I quit collecting January 2006 so except for a few rare trades all my coins date from before then.

Personally I always thought some of the prices were outragous. I remember a common Georgia coin selling for over $30 on ebay when I believe you could still by them from the source at $4. There is something about the process of bidding that makes people lose common sense.

4.2k · April 29, 2008

Good idea as I have many older coins that I'm thinking about selling for the "send blazerfan to geo-woodstock" fund. I'm going anyway, but it wouldn't hurt to have some gas money.

I quit collecting January 2006 so except for a few rare trades all my coins date from before then.

Personally I always thought some of the prices were outragous. I remember a common Georgia coin selling for over $30 on ebay when I believe you could still by them from the source at $4. There is something about the process of bidding that makes people lose common sense.

LOL on the bidding - that's true.

I still remember and prize your coin as one of the earliest with the GC logo on it (and a generally old coin, too) that I traded you a shotglass for.

It's in my glass case near my GeoNap, Moun10Bike coins and some rare others.

April 30, 2008

I've see some of the older Tiki coins get a hefty price on eBay lately...not to mention the brand new silver ones LOL.

Coin speculation

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