Pros and Cons of setting a cache as member only

[+The Cooker]

I'm new to the cache hiding side of geocaching. I have hidden two caches and one another is under review right now. My current thinking is that I will make them member only caches until the finding slows down and then convert them over for everyone to enjoy.

 

My question for the collective wisdom of forum posters are these:

1. What percent of finds are from premium members? Or who does most of the finding?

2. What are the Pros for making it member only?

3. What are the Cons for making it member only?

4. How do you decide for the caches that you hide?

 

Thanks,

The Cooker

Edited April 28, 2008 by The Cooker

[CoyoteRed]

I'm sure someone is going to pipe up that a "pro" is that it rewards paying members. I'm not sure how that works as a cache being MOC has nothing to do with quality or anything.

 

On the flip side of the coin, making it MOC simply removes your cache from the pool of caches hunted by everyone. Some families have only one account that is a paying member while the rest of the family logs under individual account. There are undocumented hoops a non-paying member has to jump through in order to log an MOC.

 

I can understand making a cache MOC when there is a reason to hide it from the general population, but most of the other times it's simply being elitist, IMHO.

[+briansnat]

I like the audit feature for MOCs so you can see who viewed the page. Sometimes it's quite surprising to see geocachers halfway around the world checking out your cache pages.

 

The major con is that it limits who can hunt it.

[+LDove]

Here is a trend I have seen where I live. People are going to the gc.com site, using the Mappoint feature and finding caches without using a GPS. I have had three people in the last month e-mail me for additional hints because they don't have a GPS and can't get specific enough with the satellite picture alone. Since we have had trouble with caches and coins getting muggled, I am now starting to mark the ones that are seen easily from the Mappoint site as premium.

[+Renegade Knight]

I'm new to the cache hiding side of geocaching. I have hidden two caches and one another is under review right now. My current thinking is that I will make them member only caches until the finding slows down and then convert them over for everyone to enjoy....

 

The pros and cons vary a lot by your own view regarding caching.

 

If you want the most finds...The cons are that less will find your cache.

If you want to reward people who support the site the pro is that they can have first shot at the cache.

If you like seeing who's looking at your cache page the audit log is a pro.

If you are having trouble with stolen caches, a pro is that this helps lower the theft rate.

 

I tried the PMO path for the last reason. It worked, then the cache maggot paid for membership for a bit and stole all those. Mostly I list caches on sites the theives tend not to frequent. That doesn't always work either. Our local maggot would be a power cacher in their own right if they used their powers for good.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+WebChimp]

1. What percent of finds are from premium members? Or who does most of the finding?

2. What are the Pros for making it member only?

3. What are the Cons for making it member only?

4. How do you decide for the caches that you hide?

 

1. No idea. Most hides are not PMO.

2. You get to see who looked at the listing by reading the audit log.

3. Non-PMs will not get to look for it.

4. Most of my cache hides are PMO until it has been logged online.

 

PMO caches are either the best thing in the world, or the worst thing in the world, or an indifferent matter, depending on who you ask.

[+Polarbz]

I think somewhere something does say that a GPS is pert-near required for geocaching... now, thats not to say that every cache requires a GPS, but it seems it would be an important part of cacher gear. I wouldn't give hints, except maybe... "A GPS would be useful."

[+StarBrand]

2 Pros to me - One it makes it a kind of "gift" to those that help pay support to the website. Two, it gives me access to the audit log.

 

Cons - less people will find the cache.

[+LDove]

I think somewhere something does say that a GPS is pert-near required for geocaching... now, thats not to say that every cache requires a GPS, but it seems it would be an important part of cacher gear. I wouldn't give hints, except maybe... "A GPS would be useful."

Probably mostly needed, but I don't think it is a rule that it is "required." The one family is

a single mom with five kids who decided to get them involved in an activity and get them out of the house. She cannot afford a GPS. In some ways, I kinda admire her creativity and she has a harder search on her hands than most with a GPS so I guess if she finds it without one or an additional hint - kudos to her!

[+StarBrand]

I think somewhere something does say that a GPS is pert-near required for geocaching... now, thats not to say that every cache requires a GPS, but it seems it would be an important part of cacher gear. I wouldn't give hints, except maybe... "A GPS would be useful."

Probably mostly needed, but I don't think it is a rule that it is "required." The one family is

a single mom with five kids who decided to get them involved in an activity and get them out of the house. She cannot afford a GPS. In some ways, I kinda admire her creativity and she has a harder search on her hands than most with a GPS so I guess if she finds it without one or an additional hint - kudos to her!

It is required when hiding a cache but not for finding.

[+wsack]

Is there any good reason why the audit log is only available on member only caches? Why isn't this available on all listings?

Edited April 28, 2008 by wsack

[+NeoAddict]

Is there any good reason why the audit log is only available on member only caches? Why isn't this available on all listings?

Groundspeak sorcery.

[+nerdling]

Is there any good reason why the audit log is only available on member only caches? Why isn't this available on all listings?

I actually found my first 30 without a GPS. I couldn't afford one at the time. I see nothing wrong with it. Its much more difficult to find them without one though. Personally when it comes to Members only Caches I don't care either way. Like somebody said before they are either the best thing in the world or the very worst thing in the world its all a matter of opinion.

[+Totem Clan]

Posted on new thread.

 

Please disregard.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Totem Clan

[+ThePetersTrio]

This may be different depending upon where you are from but when I look at listings it seems that PMO caches often have more coins in them. Being a coin-fanatic, I'm really looking forward to finally getting my PM (my daughter has promised this for me for Mother's Day - I would have done it long ago but she really wanted to do this so...I'm waiting) so I can get to all those coins!

[+Mule Ears]

The odd phenomenon that has cropped up in my stomping grounds is that the best caches (ones with swanky swag, nice locations, etc.) are open to all, while the caches most likely to be called lame (by standards frequently and hotly debated here) are nearly all PMOC.

 

We became premium members a very short time after finding our first cache. To those who say that PMOC designation rewards folks like us, I say don't do me any favors! Place good caches in interesting locales. Visit my caches and post nice logs with pictures. Throw an event or a CITO. Adopt or fix caches in need. Those all benefit me as an avid cacher. But tracking my page views of your caches via an audit log--that benefits you, not me.

Edited April 28, 2008 by Mule Ears

[gonegeofishing]

My wife and I have found a couple of PMO caches. She is a premium member. I am not. The caches seemed no better and no worse than other caches we have found. I do know how to log them as a non premium member but have not done so. That is out of respect for the hider and how they are playing the game.

 

I do not think we would ever hide a PMO cache. We do want our hides to be found. Some of our best logs have been from newer cachers who often are not premium members.

 

One downside of hiding a PMO is not seeing some excited logs from cachers that are new to the game and are not premium members.

 

I do understand most of the logic in previously stated Pros but in our neck of the woods I do not see the need. Yet!

 

As Coyote Red mentioned earlier, I get more of an elitist vibe from the practic than anything else. I think that feeling is probably because I am not a premium member. If you feel the need to list your hide as PMO, do so and thank you for hiding another cache.

[+m.austin]

I actually purchased a membership in order to view a couple caches that were a mile from my home (most caches are at least 7+ miles from me). I am SO glad I did - the multi-cache I am doing involves 17 nearby closed missle bases, all of which must be found to solve the final puzzle and find the main cache. These are all members only. It is kind of neat knowing that only the truely dedicated are searching this multi. I look at them as kind of a bonus for me forking out the bucks each month (I know, I know, it's only $3, but I LIKE rewards!) I'm planning 3 caches for my area (like I said, it's quite a drive to my little rural town)- and one will be a member's only as a reward for driving out.

[+Kit Fox]

The odd phenomenon that has cropped up in my stomping grounds is that the best caches (ones with swanky swag, nice locations, etc.) are open to all, while the caches most likely to be called lame (by standards frequently and hotly debated here) are nearly all PMOC.

 

We became premium members a very short time after finding our first cache. To those who say that PMOC designation rewards folks like us, I say don't do me any favors! Place good caches in interesting locales. Visit my caches and post nice logs with pictures. Throw an event or a CITO. Adopt or fix caches in need. Those all benefit me as an avid cacher. But tracking my page views of your caches via an audit log--that benefits you, not me.

 

My best caches (best swag, best locations, best craftmanship) are set as "PMOCs." Conversely, when I hunt caches, I rarely see much difference between the quality of locations or swag, for either type cache. The best stocked caches i've found always require the maximum effort (usually five mile plus hikes).

 

Be forewarned that this topic always turns into a heated debate.

 

Should more caches be made members only?

 

Economics 101

 

Premium Membership Exclusivities

 

Member only caches and why I hate them

 

Caches for premium members only

 

Why have the premium membership?

 

Members only caches

 

Subscription Only Caches--grrrrrrrrrr!

 

Member Only Caches, Should I or shouldn't I?

 

Caches for Premium members only

 

Members only caches

 

"members only" caches rant

 

The First "no Members" Cache

 

Change Moc Suggestion, need only normal account to view

 

Northeast Premium Member Only Caches, What are your thoughts?

 

When To Hide A Premium Member Cache, What is the culture of Member Only cache

 

Members Only Cache Hides, Members Only Cache Hides

 

Members Only, Premium Member Cache

 

And from across the pond

Members Only Caches, Is there a point anymore ?

Edited April 28, 2008 by Kit Fox

[+Mule Ears]

...The best stocked caches i've found always require the maximum effort (usually five mile plus hikes)...

 

Absolutely. Caches requiring say three or more hours of sustained hiking often appreciate in swag-value over time. Distance from pavement is a much better indication of cache quality than double-secret platinum premium member status.

[+Lil Devil]

...the multi-cache I am doing involves 17 nearby closed missle bases, all of which must be found to solve the final puzzle and find the main cache. These are all members only.

That looks like a really cool series. I'm going to have to make it a point to stop and find them on my way across the country in early October. Is the KOA RV park in west Wichita a nice place or should I look for someplace else?

 

I'm planning 3 caches for my area (like I said, it's quite a drive to my little rural town)- and one will be a member's only as a reward for driving out.

Hide them before October so I can find them when I pass through

[+TrailGators]

Pros:

1) The FTF goes to a paying member.

2) Coins are safer since most paying members seem to understand that coins are not trade items. I think this is a newbie mistake and most newbies are not paying members.

3) The cache is safer because the pool of people that have access to the coords is reduced. I think most cache pirates are not paying members.

4) The audit log is very handy for seeing how people are progressing on your puzzle caches. I've added hints based on this info.

5) They might entice more people support the site, which is a good thing for all of us.

 

Cons:

1) A small percentage of caches are not available to non-members.

2) We have to listen to some people whine about not being able to find a small percentage of caches.

Edited April 29, 2008 by TrailGators

[+DaFunkyFrogs]

In our area I have found that a lot of the PMO caches are ones that are placed in the owners front yard and they do it to keep their shrubbery intact.

[+Smokey Bear Collector]

I've begun listing my more unique caches as PMO to reward members with the opportunity to find something out of the norm. Specialty or custom caches that I don't want damaged by throngs of cachers will be listed PMO, as well as unique hides with awesome swag that I don't want to share with the masses. Elitist? Perhaps. Do I care? NO.

[+escondido100]

aloha......i usually will make my new hides PMOC until it has a few finds...two reasons

1. i can monitor who is looking at it and that is part of the fun for me....you can usually tell if there is a FTF race going on and you are the only one who knows it.

2. i like to let PMs be FTF.

oh yeah anther reason: on the island of hawaii we only have about 100 caches with about 60 on the west side...needless to say i have found all of them......this expands the game for me a bit and there is only about 20 or so regular cachers here and a few that come from HNL occasionally...so i think it gives the locals a chance to get in on a new cache early.... i have had some FTFs from vacation cachers though.

[+The Cooker]

Thanks for all the feedback.

 

I have put a bit of time, money, and thought into my caches. (As do many/most cache hiders) I assume that paying members may treat caches with more care. I would also like to reward the paying members especially for the first few finds. As the finds drop off I will open it up.

 

Again thanks for the input,

The Cooker

[+Suburban Hillbillies]

I have a few planned for the near future.

One, because it will be a medium size cache in a high muggle area, will be PMO mainly to try to keep mor experienced users looking for it to keep it safe.

Others, will be PMO for the first month, to give the paying members a chance at FTF, kind of as a gift for helping support the hobby. After that I will open them up to all.

[+ThirstyMick]

Here is a trend I have seen where I live. People are going to the gc.com site, using the Mappoint feature and finding caches without using a GPS. I have had three people in the last month e-mail me for additional hints because they don't have a GPS and can't get specific enough with the satellite picture alone. Since we have had trouble with caches and coins getting muggled, I am now starting to mark the ones that are seen easily from the Mappoint site as premium.

I've found TONS of caches with satellite images, I'm not a muggle

[CoyoteRed]

I doubt very seriously caches getting muggled are because of non-paying members--not saying it can't happen, either. It's more likely you're just not hiding the cache very well. If this is the case, then no restriction on this site can protect it.

 

The only "test" you subject a finder to by making a cache MOC is that they paid Groundspeak for the service. (...or registered their Colorado.) While it does support the site it doesn't make them a better cacher who will magically possess any more etiquette than a non-paying member.

 

Additionally, making a cache MOC for only a short time doesn't fix the casual cacher who doesn't know what to do with a TB. Once you open it up, the problem exists. Same with any other etiquette issue.

 

One last thing, unless the cache is remote from a caching population--not necessarily remote as in hard to get to--then it's more than likely going to be found by an avid enthusiast who more than likely contributes in ways other than paying Groundspeak.

 

We've been paying members of this site since about a month after we joined. I got tired of asking for our Charter Membership to be reinstated simply because I let the subscription lapse for a day or two. (I used to be a running joke about me not being a Premium Member. "Yes, that's right and that's because I'm a Charter Member.") At one time we considered making our new caches MOCs because we had a local cacher who always wanted to be FTF, but who did not trade kindly--leaving two plain quarters for a $5 item. They'd hit 3 or 4 in one session. Very frustrating. Boy, we're going to show them! Our next caches we put out and it was right about that time we discovered they had upgraded their membership. Making our caches MOC would not have done a bit of good. Do you think that changed how they traded? Nope. We've not considered doing it since as we learned that valuable lesson.

 

Folks already get rewarded by being a paying member, the subscription they paid for.

 

Now, I'm not saying to not make your caches MOC. I'm just saying do it for reasons that make sense. Some of the things I'm reading in this thread just doesn't make sense.