giving back to the hobby

[+gof1]

Didn't mean to sound like I did. Just offering another "valid" point of view others have proposed.

 

I get it. I was trying to agree and comment at the same time, but yes, we're on the same page. For now.

[+UncleJimbo]

No person of conscience can deny that if a person has 1000 finds, he/she ought to be putting more into the hobby and 3, or 10 or, all too often, 0 caches placed. Every needs to put something in and all too many are putting almost nothing while taking pretty freely. It's like a candy jar.

I can deny that. Where is it written that anyone has any obligation to make any hides?? This is only your opinion. Some cachers would rather release TBs or geocoins as a way of contributing.

 

A point about finds being a one-time thing as opposed to placed caches requiring maintenance is valid. However, must I repeat that, if few place caches, then we run out of caches to find. We live in a medium-sized city and caching took a while to catch on here. For the longest time there were proportionately few caches to look for compared to other places, and we still could use more. I'll bet that the majority of the high-find/low-placed cachers live in large urban areas where there are an abundance of caches. The same goes for all you 'quality' whiners. A find is a find. Some are better than others but all give us a little thrill. That's why we do it.

You seem to think Geocaching is a pyramid-scheme that requires a constant influx of new caches, and in some ways I see your point, especially if you are after numbers, but for many cachers, it is the quality of the hide that is important.

[+WRASTRO]

Feel free to find me a few quality locations to place caches that are within my maintainable area. I am fortunate to live in a cache rich area. Hiding a new, quality cache can be a challenge.

[+The Jester]

A find is a find.

No way! Are you saying any 1/1 cache is the same as, say, TMA-1 (3/5)? I did TMA-1 on the same trip that took me thru your town in 2005, and it was one of the hightlights of the 181 caches we did. But you say someone who puts out 10 park-n-grabs is giving back more than the a guy who puts out 1 TMA-1 type cache. Sorry, that doesn't add up.

[+Team sixgun]

I did not read all the replies here but I would have to say that it world be nice if everyone tried to place a number of caches bad or good, they don't all have to be great hides, its just nice to have enough caches out there so you don't have to drive 20 miles to find new caches with these gas prices, if every tries to hide some we will have some good ones and some alright ones alike so what as long as there are enough to keep us going, the cachers around here kill theirs off in a year or so and put new out to keep it fresh, you don't have to have a lot of new caches to find in your area but it makes us happy here.

[+TrailGators]

A find is a find.

No way! Are you saying any 1/1 cache is the same as, say, TMA-1 (3/5)? I did TMA-1 on the same trip that took me thru your town in 2005, and it was one of the hightlights of the 181 caches we did. But you say someone who puts out 10 park-n-grabs is giving back more than the a guy who puts out 1 TMA-1 type cache. Sorry, that doesn't add up.

I agree. This is exactly why trying to brow beat people into following some random ratio makes no sense.

[+WRASTRO]

I did not read all the replies here but I would have to say that it world be nice if everyone tried to place a number of caches bad or good, they don't all have to be great hides, its just nice to have enough caches out there so you don't have to drive 20 miles to find new caches with these gas prices, if every tries to hide some we will have some good ones and some alright ones alike so what as long as there are enough to keep us going, the cachers around here kill theirs off in a year or so and put new out to keep it fresh, you don't have to have a lot of new caches to find in your area but it makes us happy here.

 

Yep, everyone should archive their caches so new ones can be placed in the same place in order to make it easy for cachers to add to their numbers. If you drove 100 miles to find caches with gas at $2.00 per gallon those same 100 miles will now cost you an additional $10 at $4.00 per gallon if your vehicle achieves 20 miles per gallon. How much did you spend on superfluities last week outside of geocaching? 20 miles round trip to one cache would cost $4.00. In the "good old days that would have cost $2.00. If you can't afford the extra $2.00 my sympathies go out to you. Hide more caches in your neighborhood.

[+softball29]

Sorry, folks, all that whining about 'bad' caches and 'inimaginative' caches doesn't wash.

 

One of you had a good point about the ratio. I'm not proposing that everyone do 10:1, or any other arbitrary number. I was making the point that there are too many people out there who are only interested in finding and not in placing caches. No person of conscience can deny that if a person has 1000 finds, he/she ought to be putting more into the hobby and 3, or 10 or, all too often, 0 caches placed. Every needs to put something in and all too many are putting almost nothing while taking pretty freely. It's like a candy jar.

 

A point about finds being a one-time thing as opposed to placed caches requiring maintenance is valid. However, must I repeat that, if few place caches, then we run out of caches to find. We live in a medium-sized city and caching took a while to catch on here. For the longest time there were proportionately few caches to look for compared to other places, and we still could use more. I'll bet that the majority of the high-find/low-placed cachers live in large urban areas where there are an abundance of caches. The same goes for all you 'quality' whiners. A find is a find. Some are better than others but all give us a little thrill. That's why we do it.

 

I haven't read the whole thread yet as I've just started, so I'm sure someone else has jumped on this... but even if so or not...

 

After what you wrote in your first post, did you really call people whiners? Are you serious?

 

Wow.

[+Runaround]

I'm a volunteer with the Cleveland Metroparks geocaching program and my stats are probably the exact type the OP is complaining about. For that matter, so are the stats for all the CMP volunteers.

 

We spend our time looking for places to hide "official" CMP caches. Our goal is to always have a high quality experience. Cachers who want to own a cache in the CMP's need a permit. A volunteer checks out every single location in advance to make sure the area is safe and that threatened plant and animal species will not be hurt by the cache. We perform maintenance on all the CMP caches on behalf of the parks. The CMP's hosts a major cache event every summer attended by several hundred cachers, some traveling hundreds of miles to attend. The volunteers do a large percentage of the heavy lifting to make sure everyone has a good time. In return, most of us do not get to participate in the event itself. We also help with 3-4 "intro to geocaching" classes each year to help new cachers learn the hobby. We also represent the CMP's at local community events where the organizer wants a geocaching booth/display/instructor to help get the word out on the hobby. In summary, the volunteers typically average 30 hours per year apiece to make geocaching better in the CMP's.

 

But the OP is right, my arbitrary hides to finds ratio is not good. Shame on me for not giving back.

 

Edit: clarification

Edited April 28, 2008 by Runaround

[+webscouter.]

Prior to getting my current job I ran a geocaching course at the Boy Scout Fall Fellowship every year. I hid 30 caches each year and left the best one as a permanent cache. This was hidden under a different account than my own.

 

That is +3 caches

 

I also helped hid this cache. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...4fead&log=y

 

That is +1

 

I have taught a geocaching course for two different county parks. As a result there are several new cachers that hide caches.

 

That is +?

 

I spent 4 hours working with the Swope Park Nature center. As a result there are now 5 caches hidden in the Nature center. None under my name.

 

That is +5

 

I currently spend 9 days of every two weeks on the road. My wife deserves all my time when I am home. I guess you will just have to take my other contributions to the hobby as "my part"

 

Now I think I will go find some cheese.

[+Happy Humphrey]

With 640 finds and 91 hides, I can offer an opinion from what I feel is a position of strength (in the view of the OP).

 

Logging on-line IS giving back to the sport: that's all you need to do.

[+ncfinn]

If you live in an area where you are the only one hiding anything, I can see why you might say that even a bad cache is better than no cache.

I am fortunate to live in an area where you can hardly throw a rock without hitting a cache.

 

I have no imagination or creativity, I am incapable of creating a good hide (that does not stop me from critisizing everybody else's, though). I'd be happy to give you money for a hide, I'll go with you and carry all the gear, just don't ask me to come up with an original thought.

 

I participate by stuffing empty caches with quality swag (my definition, of course). That does not help you if you have already found the cache, but it will hopefully make it just a bit better for all the others coming after me.

[+sbell111]

it's amusing all the whining and and sarcasm about what is a simple and valid idea: put something back if you're taking out. Grabbing 1000 caches and only putting 3 out is a whole lot of taking and virtually no putting back.

If a person finds a cache, the only thing they are 'taking' is one line on the log book (assuming they trade fairly or not at all). Otherwise, they aren't affecting other cachers in any way.

 

Therefore, I fail to see how a ration of hides to finds is at all appropriate.

[Mr.Yuck]

it's amusing all the whining and and sarcasm about what is a simple and valid idea: put something back if you're taking out. Grabbing 1000 caches and only putting 3 out is a whole lot of taking and virtually no putting back.

 

As many have said, that's not nice to accuse people with differing opinions of whining. One could even say you were doing the whining. Surprised no one noticed about 1/2 your hides are "easy park and grabs" as usually indicated in the first line of the cache description.

 

I'll agree with you somewhat though; seeing someone with a thousand or thousands of finds with single digit hides (or sometimes none at all) does on the surface seem as though their not "giving back". But see Sgt. Sue's post, she explained her particular situation nicely. I've found such "non-givers back" to be quite rare in the geocaching community anyways. There's only 4 or 5 high number finders/low number hiders in my whole state when I look at cacherstats.com (excluding two I know to be children), and most of the heavy hitters on that leaderboard have hundreds of hides.

Edited April 28, 2008 by TheWhiteUrkel

[+SixDogTeam]

Some like to hide, some like to find.

 

Some like to write interesting logs, some just "TFTC". Some like horrific bushwacks in the scary woods, some quiet contemplation in a graveyard, some touring abandoned trash-filled Hobo camps behind bombed-out factories in the city, some posting thousands of replies on forums, some just eating hotdogs at Events...

 

We all have our favorite parts of geocaching.

 

For me, when FINDING, it's stopping afterwards at a local mom and pop's for a sandwich and a beer with friends.

 

And when HIDING, it's the camo painting of the plastic peanut butter jar: Flat Black, then Mahogany Brown, then a touch of Deere Green, while holding it in my hand, then proudly wearing the results of my labors on my hands for the rest of the day...

 

For Earthdog Patrick, it's peeing on every tree in the forest.

 

There's room for all. Every endeavor has all types of members, who contribute in various ways to various degrees. Geocaching won't die on the vine just because some don't contribute as much as others.

 

Hey, go hide a cache this weekend!!!

 

 

[Earthdog Patrick]

 

For Earthdog Patrick, it's peeing on every tree in the forest.

 

 

 

Hey, I have to mark the territory don't I? What if the backtrack on your crappy little yellow $77.00 Garmin doesn't work? What will you do then, huh? I can get us back out of the Magic Forest with my superior nose and my marked trail...Think before you post, meathead!

 

P.S. My Find-to-Hide Ratio is 40:1--Pretty good for a little dog, eh!

Edited April 28, 2008 by Earthdog Patrick

[Fakk 2]

 

For Earthdog Patrick, it's peeing on every tree in the forest.

 

Thats my favorite part too. I just hate when I mark the bush that the cahce was hidden in first.

[uperdooper]

i pay my 30 bucks a year. i give back.

[Earthdog Patrick]

i pay my 30 bucks a year. i give back.

 

I hugged you at Geobash and you didn't charge me. I also have the coveted Flamingo Necklace. But I don't have thirty bucks since they took my credit card away!

[uperdooper]

i pay my 30 bucks a year. i give back.

 

I hugged you at Geobash and you didn't charge me. I also have the coveted Flamingo Necklace. But I don't have thirty bucks since they took my credit card away!

hugging the flamingo doesn't cost you $$$. the penalty is much worse.

 

check your pockets next time.

Edited April 28, 2008 by uperdooper

[+Rockin Roddy]

it's amusing all the whining and and sarcasm about what is a simple and valid idea: put something back if you're taking out. Grabbing 1000 caches and only putting 3 out is a whole lot of taking and virtually no putting back.

 

I stopped reading here, so if I say something already covered, please forgive me. The idea doesn't wash for me, it's not a good idea to MAKE people hide a set number (remember in school when we all had to write a 500 word essay???).

 

Thinking that placing caches is THE only way to give back to the activity is a bit off as well. Some people host events, some attend events, donate prizes, help with clean-up, help teach others how to cache, leaves nice items in caches, writes nice logs or any number of those combined and much more!

[+gof1]

 

For Earthdog Patrick, it's peeing on every tree in the forest.

 

 

 

Hey, I have to mark the territory don't I? What if the backtrack on your crappy little yellow $77.00 Garmin doesn't work? What will you do then, huh? I can get us back out of the Magic Forest with my superior nose and my marked trail...Think before you post, meathead!

 

P.S. My Find-to-Hide Ratio is 40:1--Pretty good for a little dog, eh!

 

There are no little dogs, only little spirits. An affliction I doubt you you suffer.

[jholly]

 

For Earthdog Patrick, it's peeing on every tree in the forest.

 

Thats my favorite part too. I just hate when I mark the bush that the cahce was hidden in first.

 

That's why I alway find the cache FIRST before I start marking bushes.

[jmythng]

being about a week into this new found hobby ( 3 finds) i didn't know there was a ratio. being there are 9 within.03 miles of my house, 23 within a 1 square mile of my house and over 60 in the map book page that i am using as a reference guide for my neighborhood, hiding a cache never cross my mind at this early stage of my participation of this hobby. now should i really add to this? even though it appears that the same cachers are placing a majority of these, there seems to me to be plenty already!

random acts, it sounds to me like your pulling all the weight yourself and the rest are doing nothing. it also sounds to me that your the whiner. additionally, it sounds like your one of those type of people that complain about everything and try to ruin it for others. if i had read this before i joined i probably won't have. this is no way to get others interested to join.

 

 

life is tough, it's even tougher when your stupid.....john wayne.

[+SixDogTeam]

being about a week into this new found hobby ( 3 finds) i didn't know there was a ratio. being there are 9 within.03 miles of my house, 23 within a 1 square mile of my house and over 60 in the map book page that i am using as a reference guide for my neighborhood, hiding a cache never cross my mind at this early stage of my participation of this hobby. now should i really add to this? even though it appears that the same cachers are placing a majority of these, there seems to me to be plenty already!

random acts, it sounds to me like your pulling all the weight yourself and the rest are doing nothing. it also sounds to me that your the whiner. additionally, it sounds like your one of those type of people that complain about everything and try to ruin it for others. if i had read this before i joined i probably won't have. this is no way to get others interested to join.

 

 

life is tough, it's even tougher when your stupid.....john wayne.

 

Stupid is as stupid does...or something like that.

[+JacobBarlow]

Not all cachers are hiders.

 

Lots of ways to give back to this little hobby of ours. ..... host events,........

 

That would count as "Hiding" I'd say, since an Event is counted in your "Hidden" Stats.

[+Mr. 0]

I've found 1346 caches, and I've placed 24. 21 were regular caches, 1 was an event, and 2 were CITOs. Of those, 11 caches are still active. That puts me at about .8%. I don't feel that I'm taking more than I'm giving either. I could easily have placed hundreds, or thousands of caches, but I have no desire to maintain caches that I personally am not interested in. I could go to the local Wal-Mart and hide some lamp post micros, but I don't want to. I take pride in finding interesting, historical, or scenic places. That is the type of cache I enjoy finding, and the type of cache that I enjoy hiding for others to find.

 

Right now I have a few ideas, and containers ready to go, but I'm waiting for proper permission from the landowners. I've also had a few that I really wanted to place but couldn't due to denial of permission. I just like to take my time and make sure all the details are worked out before I submit a cache. That way the reviewer's job is easier. They don't have to study the maps, or send me emails. It also avoids me being the owner of a half-baked, and ultimately, poor cache that disappoints the subsequent finders.

 

I haven't read any of the other replies in this thread, so I may just be rehashing what others have said.

 

Edit: to add specific numbers now that I took the time to look them up.

Edited April 29, 2008 by Mr. 0

[+Photographer Jim]

So, what it amounts to is this: We're all cachers together. We all should contribute. If you're a cacher with 4-digit finds and single-digit owned, you're simply not pulling your weight and you need to rethink your role in this hobby community.

 

I have been caching now for a little over one year.

I have 668 finds; 2 hides. Find to hide ratio of 334:1 (.29%) I have two new containers in the works., but I'm having one heck of a time finding a suitable placement site.

 

I live in a suburban area where there are currently well over 200 caches within a 3 mile radius of my house. (Over 700 within 10 miles) There seems to be a magnetic micro on every stop sign, a film cannister under every lamp post skirt. There is a least one tupperware container in every park in town. Yes, new hides do seem to come out regularly, but it has gotten harder and harder to find a place in town that is not already taken and which also meets the guidelines for placing a cache.

 

I suppose I could race out and see if I can locate a few more unclaimed lamp posts, and up my hide count, but I choose not to. I will never even come close to approaching the 10:1 ratio suggested earlier in this post. Instead, I spend time trying to work out some more creative (and hopefully, more challenging) hides, and placing them thoughtfully when a good opportunity arises. They will come fewer and further between than the original poster suggests is acceptable, but my conviction is that I'd rather place a minimum of well designed, unique hides rather than a slew of ordinary hides.

 

I do my best to help maintain caches that are in need of repair; I move TBs and Coins (sometimes with extra effort in order to help fulfill a mission); I attend events and try to get to know my other local cachers; I try to spread the word about the fun of this activity; and I always try to act in responsible ways that will shed only good light on the rest of the caching community.

 

Quite honestly, I do not feel that I have any reason to "rethink my role". I completely believe that "I pull my weight" and that I am a member in-good-standing within this community. Bottom line: I find it very offensive that another cacher, by way of such a narrow definition of "giving back", would suggest otherwise.

[jholly]

it's amusing all the whining and and sarcasm about what is a simple and valid idea: put something back if you're taking out. Grabbing 1000 caches and only putting 3 out is a whole lot of taking and virtually no putting back.

 

I'm sorry, I don't quite grasp the premise of your argument. Hides are meant to be found, so if by finding them how am I taking from the hobby? i"m currently at a 3% hide ratio and dropping every day. I don't worry about it because the people that find my caches always write logs about how nice the view was or how much fun they had finding my cache. I would much rather have a low hide/find ratio and know people enjoy my caches.

 

If that person that has a 1000 finds and only 3 hides and those three hides are a memorable experience for me I think they succeeded very well in giving back to the hobby.

 

Jim

[+gof1]

The OP has stopped responding to this thread. Perhaps it is time to let it go? Seems like the point has been made.

[+The Jester]

Oh, please, not yet! We're not finished whining!

[+Totem Clan]

Yeah, come on. If we roll this horse over there's still some meat we could beat on.

[+baloo&bd]

The OP has stopped responding to this thread. Perhaps it is time to let it go? Seems like the point has been made.

 

Agreed. Moderators?

[+SixDogTeam]

I could easily have placed hundreds, or thousands of caches,

 

Placing hundreds or thousands of caches is NOT easy, I assure you...

[+webscouter.]

I've decided to go to Walmart and pick up 269 film canisters. I am going to place all of them in lamp post and pocket parks. When they disappear I will archive them.

 

Don't tell *gln or RattlingCrew. As my reviewers they will probably frown on my plans.

[CoyoteRed]

I guess some folks seeing placing caches as a "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" sort of activity. Me, I see placing caches similar to writing a short story or some other sort of creation. I do it do share with others, nothing more. If that other person who finds my cache doesn't hide a cache of his own I don't care. In fact, unless it's a thread like this one, it doesn't even cross my mind.

 

Granted, I do look forward to a select few hiding caches, but that's because I've enjoyed their caches in the past. It has nothing to do with how many cache they've found.

 

Folks should only place caches they want to place, not ones they are pressured into placing. Otherwise, quality suffers.