How would you sell your maps?

[+JSWilson64]

Maybe this has come up before, but here goes...

 

If you had licensed map data from NavTeq or TeleAtlas, how would you sell your maps? And how would you prevent their transfer to unauthorized/unlicensed users?

 

We've all got our pet peeves about Garmin, et al. about how much the maps cost, how they're updated, and so on. But have you really thought about how to make a better system? Maybe you've got some ideas they'd like to hear.

 

I, for one, think Garmin's model is onerous and old-fashioned. Think about it - in the digital age, why should I have to update the entire "North America" map (which is a misnomer, really - since there's no Mexico data) every freakin' year or so? There's no way to just add the new stuff? Heck, even Microsoft has figured out how to update portions of software. (overly simplistic, but you get the idea)

 

For that matter, why should I have to buy all of North America, when all I want is a few states? I have no need for up-to-date maps of Quebec this year - why should I have to buy it? I can see how it'd be difficult to implement - stuff like trying to use a 2006 Ohio map with a 2009 WV and a 2008 KY might not work so good... But who wouldn't just buy a state or two if they were reasonably priced? What if I just wanted refreshed POI data? (Not that it's terribly up-to-date, anyway)

 

At the same time, I understand Garmin's strategy of locking maps to a particular receiver. If the box says you have X licenses, they have the right to enforce it. What I don't agree with is the inability to de-install and unlock a device and install to another. I think if they could implement some way to untie the maps from the hardware, most users would be ok with it.

 

And I haven't even addressed piracy yet. What's the definition, anyway? Is MetroWizzz pirating anything? The data is all there, it's just re-indexing some of it. I heard that when Windows NT first came out, the "Server" and "workstation" CDs were basically the same, with slightly different parts being installed. Server cost a lot more. Guess what was quickly figured out? Was that piracy?

 

What about homemade maps? Reading the license, one could argue that you're adding data to the map database on your Garmin unit, and therefore it's not allowed.

 

Keygens & cracks certainly fall into the realm of piracy (at least in my mind), yet where there's an algorithm, there's someone who will want to try and break it. What's a software company to do? Every software copy protection scheme has been hacked, cracked, broken, reverse-engineered, or circumvented in some way. Even hardware locks aren't immune -- USB dongles can be emulated, or the software can be changed to remove the need for the lock. If it's a valuable program, once it's released in the wild, it's only a matter of time before it's opened up (nobody's going to bother hacking something that's free, or low-cost).

Some say piracy costs millions of dollars, others have said they probably don't make that much profit off maps, they're just passing along the licensing costs.

 

If you developed software / maps, and made your living off of them, how would YOU protect yourself?

 

I'm sure there will be discussion of those points, but I'll start a list of what would be better, in my opinion:

1. Lower total cost of ownership of map products. Here are some options:

- Offer map sets a la carte - let me pick and choose what states or regions I want, at a lower cost.

- Or offer free updates for a year or two or 3 after purchase of a map product.

2. Easier management of map sets. Allow removing and unlocking a map set so it can be installed on another unit. Make the unlock/authorization process easier.

3. Make it easier/cheaper to use your maps on another GPS unit. Why does the 2nd license cost 60+% of the full cost?

 

What would you like to see in the maps you use?

[+XopherN71]

Package A: $$

One license - One GPS device

 

Package B: $$$ A bit more.

One license - One GPS device plus 1 Computer

 

Package C: $$$ A bit more yet.

Family package - Up to 4 GPS devices and 2 Computers.

 

50% off first upgrade, reduced cost thereafter if upgraded in sequence. (2008, 2009, 2010).

Edited April 25, 2008 by XopherN71

[+Cacheoholic]

I think you would do exactly what ever the map data provider (i.e. NavTeq or TeleAtlas) would make you do as an agreement to sell their licensed product. Garmin’s map distribution policies are dictated by the map data provider.

[CivilVet]

There will always be piracy, but if you make it more convienent to get it legitimately then most people won;t bother breaking the law and going the pirate route. Some will, but those are lost causes or people who want ot prove they can brek the system.

 

Offer states and regions for things like the TOPOs fora reduced price.

 

Go back to the two unlock codes, that seemed reasonable, or allow the purchase of additionaly unlock codes for like $20-30.

 

Homemade maps are completely legit in my book, I own the hardware, I can do with it whatever I want.

[+JSWilson64]

I think you would do exactly what ever the map data provider (i.e. NavTeq or TeleAtlas) would make you do as an agreement to sell their licensed product. Garmin’s map distribution policies are dictated by the map data provider.

Then why doesn't NavTeq / TeleAtlas just release it? I hear what you're saying, but I have a hard time believing that their data provider told them that "North America" only includes the U.S. and Canada, or that maps should cost $X.xx, or that you can't simply release an update of street names, or that you can't offer free updates, etc. Maybe "one license, one device." But if the data providers are dictating Garmin's (and Magellan's and TomTom's and whoever else's) business model, that'll get 'em sued at least in the U.S.A.).

[+JSWilson64]

There will always be piracy, but if you make it more convienent to get it legitimately then most people won;t bother breaking the law and going the pirate route. Some will, but those are lost causes or people who want ot prove they can brek the system.

 

Offer states and regions for things like the TOPOs fora reduced price.

 

Go back to the two unlock codes, that seemed reasonable, or allow the purchase of additionaly unlock codes for like $20-30.

 

Homemade maps are completely legit in my book, I own the hardware, I can do with it whatever I want.

You may own the hardware, but you don't own the firmware / software that runs on it.

 

Here's a new idea, piggy backed on yours:

How 'bout a state data set? City Navigator + Topo for a state or region. Add Blue Chart for a bit more $$.

 

I'd guess if someone could buy their state's data, or their region's data, for $30 - $50 (depending on the size and quality of the product), and offer the ability to add to it up to a max cost for the whole set, there'd be very little problem with piracy. Save for the people, like you said, that simply want to prove they could do it, or the old-school guys who believe software only needs to be paid for once, by one person, then copied and shared with everyone.

 

And a question: Why are the 1:24,000 national parks maps not included in Topo USA? Are they not topographical maps, of the USA? Under this model, I guess we could see City Navigator, plus a separate, more detailed product for big cities. (don't listen to that part, anyone from Garmin )

[+roadrage64]

I'd sell them exactly like Garmin does now. There is nothing wrong with their map licensing policies and I think they are very fair. The one thing I would probably change though, is that I would allow a limited number of license transfers in the event that a unit was lost, stolen or sold. This would of course be monitored for abuse (IE: same user transferring licenses over and over)

[anethema]

I just cant believe ANYONE things garmin's terms are fair. You pay for software. Ok good so far. You sell your gps and buy another, but it uses the same software with the same data you already paid for. Too bad, you have to buy it again. Are you kidding? This is insane!

 

I paid for garmins software but will PROUDLY admit i pirated the hell out of the maps when I had to switch gps devices. (60c to nuvi) The keygen works fantastic.

 

I will NOT pay for the same data over and over and over. If things were any kind of sane, this would be illegal under some kind of consumer protection laws.

 

Wanting cheaper maps or broken down by state is another issue, but for me I refuse to re-pay for my maps.

 

 

As far as not owning the software/firmware thats bogus too. I own this copy. The law prohibits me from distributing the software, but distributing home made maps which don't contain the software is ok and 100 percent legal.

[gallet]

If you had licensed map data from NavTeq or TeleAtlas, how would you sell your maps? And how would you prevent their transfer to unauthorized/unlicensed users?

 

Hmmm that's a tough one. Let's see, first thing I'd do is cut down the two unlock code nonsense. Then, I'd charge everyone waaay over the odds so that I could make sure that I'm covered against the few who will always pirate software. After all it can send a company broke. Take Adobe for example, Photoshop must be the most pirated software ever and after 10 years look what's happened to Adobe, they hardly know where their next $billion is coming from.

 

What else, oh yeah, I'd force people who live in australia to pay three times the cost of the US maps that are 10 times larger and make them pay for barely noticable updates at more than what the yanks pay for the full program.

 

That's what I'd do if I were garmin.

 

</sarcasm>

Edited April 27, 2008 by gallet

[Baumer]

It doesn't matter what they do. The copyright protection is hacked out immediately anyway. They could protect it before GPS became more mainstream, but it's simply too popular to be ignored now.

[QuigleyJones]

I think you would do exactly what ever the map data provider (i.e. NavTeq or TeleAtlas) would make you do as an agreement to sell their licensed product. Garmin's map distribution policies are dictated by the map data provider.

Then why doesn't NavTeq / TeleAtlas just release it? I hear what you're saying, but I have a hard time believing that their data provider told them that "North America" only includes the U.S. and Canada, or that maps should cost $X.xx, or that you can't simply release an update of street names, or that you can't offer free updates, etc. Maybe "one license, one device." But if the data providers are dictating Garmin's (and Magellan's and TomTom's and whoever else's) business model, that'll get 'em sued at least in the U.S.A.).

They dont "release" it because they are a company and a company's sole purpose is to make money.

 

North America includes US and Canada because originally they did not have Mexico data, and when they did it wouldn't have been included in the contract. plus I think its a good thing that they made mexico separate as I would not want to pay $100 extra for maps I would not use. (do you honestly think that with mexico being included that the price of city navigator would not go up).

 

And yes the data providers do dictate what Garmin and others can do with there data.

Take a look at metrogude its the same as city navigator but with autoruting disabled so certain restrictions (unlocks) no longer apply.

[+roadrage64]

I just cant believe ANYONE things garmin's terms are fair. You pay for software. Ok good so far. You sell your gps and buy another, but it uses the same software with the same data you already paid for. Too bad, you have to buy it again. Are you kidding? This is insane!

 

I paid for garmins software but will PROUDLY admit i pirated the hell out of the maps when I had to switch gps devices. (60c to nuvi) The keygen works fantastic.

 

I will NOT pay for the same data over and over and over. If things were any kind of sane, this would be illegal under some kind of consumer protection laws.

 

Wanting cheaper maps or broken down by state is another issue, but for me I refuse to re-pay for my maps.

 

 

As far as not owning the software/firmware thats bogus too. I own this copy. The law prohibits me from distributing the software, but distributing home made maps which don't contain the software is ok and 100 percent legal.

 

Like I said in my post "The one thing I would probably change though, is that I would allow a limited number of license transfers in the event that a unit was lost, stolen or sold."

[+Renegade Knight]

Overall I like the Garmin model for the serial numbers. I can install the maps on as many computers as I want and they work. What I don't like is that I have to buy the same map over and over again for each GPS. Same map, but I cant' use it again.

 

So what I'd rather do is buy a universal map that works on any GPS than the present system. Online topo and arial maps make this possible. It's the routing maps that would prove to be a problem.

[+Airmapper]

I use Lowrance, and when I wanted a new unit, I got another Lowrance. I literally took the SD card out of my old unit and used the same map file on my new one until I got around to setting it up with it's own larger map file and bigger card.

 

The way Lowrance works, you buy MapCreate, you also need a Lowrance SD card reader/ writer, (which usually comes with the map program) after that your set. You have up to 5 memory cards you can write maps to. You also need the CD or DVD in the drive to start it, but these are minor since making maps isn't an everyday thing anyway.

 

There are also a few ways around these features, but I've never needed to circumvent them, as I only have 2 Lowrance units, and 3 SD cards.

 

That is how I would do maps, since that method hasn't bothered me yet.