Question about '?' caches

[+Doonchak]

Hello all.

 

I had a question about the puzzle or '?' caches.

 

For those that have a puzzle or where you need to hunt for the co-ordinates to the cache...what are the co-ordinates at the top of the log for?

 

Thanks

[+the hermit crabs]

They are supposed to be just a general reference point within a couple of miles of the actual coordinates. They might be coordinates for parking, or they might be meaningless, like in the middle of a lake.

 

They're useful when you want to find caches in a certain area, because they tell you the general area that the "?" cache is in -- just not the exact area.

[+Stargazer22]

Yes, the ? caches are mystery caches. They may involve solving a puzzle. They may have additional logging requirements like posting a photo of you and your GPS at the site, or answering a question about something found in the cache area. They may be night caches that can only be found at night by following a trail of reflectors (the coordinates on those are usually where the first reflector can be found).

 

The coordinates may be either in the middle of a lake or a restricted area to let you know that the actual cache is not where the coordinates are.

 

The posted coordinates may also be where you can park for the cache. You really have to read the cache page to find out which.

 

The posted coordinates are supposed to be within 2 miles of the actual cache location. That way when you are doing a search for caches in the area, you will know that a mystery cache is somewhere nearby.

Finding it is another matter......

 

Happy Caching!

Edited April 23, 2008 by Stargazer22

[+ventura_kids]

....and can I suggest....

when listing a puzzle cache, try to pick coordinates that are near the actual cache site.

 

I usually make a route, and then work on the puzzle cache.

It really upsets us when the actual coordinates are on the other side of the city, or on the other side of a river . We then have to cancel our attempt at finding it, and reschedule it (or never hunt for it) .

 

If the real coords are within a tenth of a mile or so, of the coords at the top of the page,... we can keep it on our route for the day (and thank the hider).

[Motorcycle_Mama]

The guidelines state that the "fake" coordinates should be within 2 miles of the real coordinates unless there is good reason shown to do otherwise. But I would think that everyone who goes after puzzles caches should understand upfront that the coordinates listed are potentially some distance off from the actual. That's, I think, part of the game with puzzles.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

For many caches of this type, the coordinates listed are not of the actual cache location but a general reference point, such as a nearby parking location. Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles (2-3 kilometres) away from the true cache location.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Plus, if you put them a distance off, it keeps people from brute-forcing the cache!

I helped my sister put out one with the coords in the middle of a river. That didn't stop people from searching both banks of the river.

[+ventura_kids]

Two tenths of a mile would be ok.

2 miles is near the limit of a route.

 

If it is gonna be almost 2 miles off the real coords, at least show it on the correct side of any large obstacle...ie...a river, a freeway, a Grand Canyon, etc.

I hate when I spend over 7 minutes solving a puzzle that is on our route, only to find out it can only be reached when travelling NORTH on the freeway (when our route is SOUTH). When this happens, I have to remove it from the route, and Skip it totally. So if you have to make it almost 2 miles away, at least show it on the side of the freeway that is required to find it.

 

I doubt anyone can brute force a find that is 300 feet off the coords (unless the hint gives it away).

 

I remember..... In Las Vegas.... A large group of slightly tipsy cachers were hunting a multi in a park....at midnight....and the final was 7 miles away. Would you want this group to jump in their cars and zoom around? lol

So the same thing sorta applies to multi's. The final should be reasonably nearby....or warn everyone up front.

[+admo1972]

As a cacher that loves to solve puzzles, I can understand the frustration to work on a puzzle, only to find that you won't be able to get to it on a route or day of caching where there are other caches that you are going to get.

 

However, puzzle caches are often there for the fun of solving them, as well as going to the cache itself. If you solve a puzzle, had fun doing it, but found that it's on the other side of the freeway you are traveling on, then I'd still say it is a successful cache. You had fun doing it. If not, then I'd simply say you should ignore the puzzle caches that are on your route.

[+Stargazer22]

 

I doubt anyone can brute force a find that is 300 feet off the coords (unless the hint gives it away).

 

 

We have a local cacher here named Jetskier who somehow manages to find lots of puzzle caches without solving the puzzles. Many of the posted coordinates are quite a distance away from the actual cache location, but he still manages to find them. He must have a crystal ball or something. It's so common, the locals call it 'being Jetskiered', when he finds the cache without solving the puzzle.

Someone around here even has a bookmark they place on caches he has done this way.

The bookmark is "You've been Jetskiered".

[+GIDEON-X]

I have a series of Access-Caches in the Yuma, AZ area. most of them are at the Posted Location..........the seeker has to solve a problem to gain the access number (combonation) to open the cache. Check This One -- One of my caches, from the posted location one must Project a waypoint to the actual cache, as well as solving the puzzle to gain access.............

[Arf2-D2]

 

 

We have a local cacher here named Jetskier who somehow manages to find lots of puzzle caches without solving the puzzles. Many of the posted coordinates are quite a distance away from the actual cache location, but he still manages to find them. He must have a crystal ball or something. It's so common, the locals call it 'being Jetskiered', when he finds the cache without solving the puzzle.

Someone around here even has a bookmark they place on caches he has done this way.

The bookmark is "You've been Jetskiered".

 

My cache is a puzzle. I'm not sure how anyone else feels, but I don't think I would like to be "jetskiered". After all, I went through alot of trouble to create a puzzle rather than a traditional one.

 

On the other hand, though, if he enjoyed himself finding the cache that way...

Well, that's the whole point, isn't it? To have fun!

[+ventura_kids]

Hello all.

 

I had a question about the puzzle or '?' caches.

 

For those that have a puzzle or where you need to hunt for the co-ordinates to the cache...what are the co-ordinates at the top of the log for?

 

Thanks

 

So the answer is..... most of the time the coordinates are a starting place (a trailhead or parking spot), or a nearby non-related place (just so you get the right city).

[Motorcycle_Mama]

Yep, for the posted coordinates for puzzle caches. That's the way the system is designed. The posted coordinates have no relation to the real coordinates (other than as per the guidelines).

 

As has been posted, people often put them in the middle of a body of water that it's unrelated to the actual location.

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me that if you have solved the puzzle, you KNOW where the real coordinates are so you KNOW which side of the river, highway, etc it's on.

[+the hermit crabs]

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me that if you have solved the puzzle, you KNOW where the real coordinates are so you KNOW which side of the river, highway, etc it's on.

I got the impression that he wouldn't have bothered to solve them at that time if he had known beforehand that they wouldn't be on the planned route for the day's caching.

[+WRASTRO]

Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems to me that if you have solved the puzzle, you KNOW where the real coordinates are so you KNOW which side of the river, highway, etc it's on.

I got the impression that he wouldn't have bothered to solve them at that time if he had known beforehand that they wouldn't be on the planned route for the day's caching.

 

I tried to resist but I just couldn't. I don't think it is reasonable for a cacher to expect that he/she will be able to easily solve puzzle caches while out on a cache run and that the solved caches should be on the "correct" side of whatever means of access the searcher is using. What happens if I am approaching from the "other" direction of the freeway or if I am using surface streets? And what the heck is the stuff about spending 7 minutes solving a puzzle? How about 7 hours or more? Gotta figure that is just a bit of bait. I bit (a little).

[+ventura_kids]

Bait? What bait? ....hehe....

 

I hate solving puzzles. But this is a big BIG issue when finding 100 caches in a day.

 

FIRST we create a logical route thru the city...avoiding Police stations, Parks full of gang members, Homeless encampments, bushes with ticks, etc..

...then, ...SECOND we solve the puzzles that are on our route.

 

I guess you can figure that we are not in our home city, state, etc....

Most of the time, we don't have time to return to the area....especially if it's a couple hundred miles away.

 

So once we solve the puzzle, and we see it's no longer anywhere near our 100 cache route, we scratch it off our list....and this makes us very sad.

 

....because we only have 99 caches left to find.

[+ventura_kids]

As an example...... take Yuba City, California.

It is near our route.

However, it is filled with puzzle caches.

So we are skipping the entire town. Sorry Yuba City hiders....

 

It would take me days just to solve all the puzzles and re-re-re-re (99 more times)re-route our list.

Edited April 26, 2008 by ventura_kids

[+brite00eyes]

The 7 minute rule? Is that realistic for newbies? For kids? Just checking here, but given that people are talking about hiding micro containers in puzzled locations NOT at the coordinates actually listed, would my kids really be able to find these in 7 minutes?

 

Glad you're enjoying yourself though

[+Prime Suspect]

The 7 minute rule? Is that realistic for newbies? For kids? Just checking here, but given that people are talking about hiding micro containers in puzzled locations NOT at the coordinates actually listed, would my kids really be able to find these in 7 minutes?

 

Glad you're enjoying yourself though

I think that's 7 minutes of searching, not solving puzzles. We've got a local who does pretty much the same, though he may go back at a later time. But if he can't find it after 3 attempts, it's off his list. He has nearly 8,000 finds to his credit.

[+Harry Dolphin]

I doubt anyone can brute force a find that is 300 feet off the coords (unless the hint gives it away).

Perhaps a matter of semantics. There's a local cacher who is still annoyed at me that I beat her to FTF by fifteen minutes (on a cache that had been unfound for about two weeks.) Coords to the first stage were about .17 from the final. I knew the area, and where the other cache in the area was. That left me with about a five hundred foot of trail by four hundred foot area to search. Took about twenty minutes, but I did brute force it. I still have no idea how to solve the puzzle. The other one I brute forced, I had a pretty good idea where it was hidden. Combination of how the page was worded, and knowing the area.

 

I remember..... In Las Vegas.... A large group of slightly tipsy cachers were hunting a multi in a park....at midnight....and the final was 7 miles away. Would you want this group to jump in their cars and zoom around? lol

So the same thing sorta applies to multi's. The final should be reasonably nearby....or warn everyone up front.

 

Why do you think this? Solve the puzzle, and get the coordinates. I've done a few that were over a mile off. Never went to the listed starting point. I did a multi with five air miles between start and finish. It probably took me two months to finally get the final. I don't see why you think this is a problem.