Is There Cheating When it Comes to Hunting a Difficult Cache

April 23, 2008

You and I do not cache alike. And I accept that. It is obvious that you have trouble accepting differences in others and their methods of playing this game. As has been said before when this subject comes up, I play geocaching 1.3, you play geocaching 1.2. Different versions for different cachers. But I am happy playing my version and accept that you would hate every minute of it. (Is that judgmental enough? )

I'm glad I keep all this wisdom on my clipboard for emergencies...

"Everyone plays their own game. There is no sense in trying to police another's mindset as long as it falls within the general parameters of the game." Me (quoting myself from the poll that I posted on 10/23/03.)

The hider is playing a game called geocaching. They are evidently playing it right because their cache was approved.

You are also playing a GAME (sport/hobby/obsession/etc.) evidently called MY version of Geocaching 1.5, or maybe even 2.O. You seem to be failing at your game if you are not able to enjoy it. (also me - I forget when though...)

"Failure is a hard pill to swallow until you realize the only failure you can really have in this sport is the failure to enjoy yourself."

TotemLake 4/26/04

I knew you had that somewhere at hand. Easier than searching for it.

April 23, 2008

*snip*

We come off a full day of caching in a preserve,20 finds and we're beat. We decide to grab the famous "one last cache" on the way home.This cache is in this little residential area near the preserve.We get out at GZ and we're lookin' around for maybe 5 minutes when all of a sudden this car comes to a screeching halt and this guy comes running up to us. We're freakin' out cuz we think he's gonna yell at us for poking through the flower beds or something right ? He comes up and he says "What cache are you lookin' for ? " Well there's only one cache there so he knows darn well what cache we're lookin' for and turns out he's the cache owner. We chat a minute and we tell him we've been there all but 5 minutes blah-blah-blah and next thing you know the guy bends down,goes under the lamp post skirt and TOSSES US THE CACHE !!!! We're like "What the heck did you do that for ???" Long story short,we NEVER logged that cache and we NEVER will you know why ? Cuz we didn't find it fair and square and because we don't need numbers like those ! This cache owner actually wrote to us about a week later wanting to know why we didn't log it and we were thinking "Are you kidding ? Is this guy joking ?" We told him we didn't log it cuz we didn't find it !! Hello !! Same thing as asking for clues/hints from cache owners and going out to GZ with cache owners or phoning a friend who found a cache and asking them for clues/help.

That's just us.Maybe we're weird I don't know but there cannot possibly be any joy in finding a difficult cache after you ask for clues and/or help. thanks

You have it backwards. A cache is not just about the search and find. It is about where it is and what is happening there and who you meet along the way. You didn't "find" that cache by the way you play, but most cachers would log about how nice it was to meet the owner and hang out and talk. He probably handed you the cache figuring you had already figured out where it must be since you were no longer searching, not thinking that you really wanted him to go away.

Be a purist if you must though. You found something at the coordinates your GPSr took you, you hopefully signed the log and have a fun story to tell online about it. Geocaching isn't always about the search and find. It can be about life too.

(I miss Oregone's logs.)

I appreciate your response too but (what else is new?),we're different kinds of cachers. I'll bet you frequent all of the social events in your area right ? GeoCaching is just one big social event for you,a place to meet people and make new friends ? For us it's a sport not a tea party and I think that's the problem with me getting bashed in these forums. The majority of cachers see caching as a big block party and we see it as a sport with rules written or not written. You're right, most cachers would've logged that cache even though it was handed to them and not because it was "nice to meet the owner blah-blah-blah" but to add another number to their score. C'mon,get real people !!! How do you log a cache that the owner LITERALLY handed to you and go away feeling good about it ?? Where am I ?? I must be dreaming.

Frequent them? Dude, I throw them!

You don't know me, you don't know my caching style or goals. Yet you have already judged who I am and what I must be like.

I have no problem logging a cache I have been handed when I am at the cache site and have gone there for that cache. As far as I am concerned, geocaching is to bring me places and share the joy of exploring a new area. It is NOT always about the search and the find. I have walked away from more caches due to poor placement and cruddy locations than you can imagine. If I enjoy the place and find the cache, great. If I enjoy the place and know where the cache is hidden, but get it handed to me when I arrive by another searcher, great! That means I can spend more time enjoying the area.

You and I do not cache alike. And I accept that. It is obvious that you have trouble accepting differences in others and their methods of playing this game. As has been said before when this subject comes up, I play geocaching 1.3, you play geocaching 1.2. Different versions for different cachers. But I am happy playing my version and accept that you would hate every minute of it. (Is that judgmental enough? )

If you are letting geocaching anger or annoy you, you may want to think about stepping back from it and reconsidering your reasons for caching before getting deeper into the obsession.

One of the funnest caches we have ever logged a find on was handed into the vehicle by the cache owner when we pulled into his driveway. He had set the cache up so you could literally do a drive-by on it if you wanted too. We had a blast talking with him and going through the container before heading off to dinner. And it was the 3rd cache of the day where we met the owner and talked for a while.

-J

Again,as with all the other responders,I appreciate your response but I have to be honest here,it's a very rare occassion that I am rendered speechless,in fact, I can't remember the last time,but this is one of those times. Wow. I'm at a loss for words.....almost....wait,here's some....Is this response a joke or is it real ? Seriously,all kidding aside. The 'funnest' cache you ever did blah-blah story, is that true ? Are you being serious ? If it is true then there's only one of us who needs to "think about stepping back......" and it isn't me.

Again...Where am I ?

I logged that cache the way the owner meant for it to be logged. It was an approved cache on GC.com.

Check out this similar one we found:

A Special Memory

April 23, 2008

Remember, too, fun is defined differently with different people.

April 23, 2008

I appreciate your response too but (what else is new?),we're different kinds of cachers. I'll bet you frequent all of the social events in your area right ? GeoCaching is just one big social event for you,a place to meet people and make new friends ? For us it's a sport not a tea party and I think that's the problem with me getting bashed in these forums. The majority of cachers see caching as a big block party and we see it as a sport with rules written or not written. You're right, most cachers would've logged that cache even though it was handed to them and not because it was "nice to meet the owner blah-blah-blah" but to add another number to their score. C'mon,get real people !!! How do you log a cache that the owner LITERALLY handed to you and go away feeling good about it ?? Where am I ?? I must be dreaming.

Bottom line: A handout is a handout period. I don't want to offend anyone here, I could go on and one with this responder and his/her fantasy land view on life in general. This is the first time I've ever seen someone find a halfway point between the search and the find and call it 'life.' Wow, that's a whole new perspective.

Interesting. Your "rules to post" say no personal attacks and you did JUST THAT here (and in your other thread). You are a hypocrite who takes this GAME (yes, it's a game, not a sport) way TOO seriously.

THERE ARE NO WRITTEN RULES that say anything against what you are complaining about.

This is a great social game. I suggest you take up a more serious competitive sport. So you don't want to meet people?

Sorry, but you are way too competitive, especially about this game. You need to take a deep breath and have some fun and stop worrying about other cachers.

Greetings softball.I see you looked for and found my new topic which is surprising since you were the loudest anti at my last topic. I welcome you because as I said then,I can go back and forth with you all day and we can disagree all day but at the end of the day I still consider you a fellow cacher and a friend.You must find me at least a little interesting to have followed me here right?

You just made my point.You see gc as a game and I see it as a sport. That,in a nutshell, is the problem between us. You suggest I "take up a more serious,competitive sport ?" I gaurantee there are other cachers out there on planet Earth who take it so seriously they would make me look like you !

Hypocrite? I don't think so. I practice what I preach and fair play doesn't have to be written down for me in a rule book in order for me to know it's wrong.Hey,why not go into a store and shoplift and then when you get busted go like this "I didn't know I wasn't supposed to steal.There wasn't a sign on the window !" Gimme a break.

April 23, 2008

For us it's a sport not a tea party

I think that if you would consider it more of a tea party you *might* have more fun.

By the way, I scored a FTF this morning. I met another cacher there whom I'd met before and we had a good time catching up, and we traded a couple of cache containers that we'd camo'ed. The cache in this instance was secondary to the pleasure of just a few minutes of his company.

But I'm still glad I got that FTF.

April 23, 2008

Greetings softball.I see you looked for and found my new topic which is surprising since you were the loudest anti at my last topic. I welcome you because as I said then,I can go back and forth with you all day and we can disagree all day but at the end of the day I still consider you a fellow cacher and a friend.You must find me at least a little interesting to have followed me here right?

You just made my point.You see gc as a game and I see it as a sport. That,in a nutshell, is the problem between us. You suggest I "take up a more serious,competitive sport ?" I gaurantee there are other cachers out there on planet Earth who take it so seriously they would make me look like you !

Hypocrite? I don't think so. I practice what I preach and fair play doesn't have to be written down for me in a rule book in order for me to know it's wrong.Hey,why not go into a store and shoplift and then when you get busted go like this "I didn't know I wasn't supposed to steal.There wasn't a sign on the window !" Gimme a break.

I didn't specifically look for you, it's reading other topics.

I changed the tone of my comments when I edited, you started responding too quickly as I see you got the first part. I answered off the cuff.

That being said, I do think you are being hypocritical because you tell people not to personally attack, and you do it.

I also think you are taking it too seriously. This is a great game. Do people take it seriously? Yes. That's fine. And I respect that. But we all play it different. If you want us all to respect you, then you have to respect how we play this game and that we might not agree that you think there is cheating.

Getting a hint about where a cache is is no where near stealing. Those two don't work together.

Let me throw this one out here for you. Maybe you'll see out my window a little.

My world is hectic. A lot of stress. A lot of crap every day. When I found geocaching, it seemed like a good diversion. It has worked.

I cache with friends. I cache with my mother. I cache with my brother. We spend quality time together. I'm going to my first event in a few weeks and can't wait to meet other cachers, talk and have a blast.

When I'm out on the trail, my mind is free. I enjoy the hunt, rarely trade, I move TBs and coins and sign logs. As an avid photographer, I also take photos at these places. I also love all kinds of caches -- nanos, micros, long and challenging hikes etc. I'm calm the whole time. I ignore the real world. There's no stress. It's great exercise and fun to spend time with others.

That's how I play.

So, now that I've laid that out there, please look at this before commenting and understand why I don't agree with your stance. I totally respect your game, how you play and your opinions. But I don't agree and that's fine. You do your thing, I do mine. That's how it should be and that's why this game is so great.

8.4k · April 23, 2008

I appreciate your response too but (what else is new?),we're different kinds of cachers. I'll bet you frequent all of the social events in your area right ? GeoCaching is just one big social event for you,a place to meet people and make new friends ? For us it's a sport not a tea party and I think that's the problem with me getting bashed in these forums. The majority of cachers see caching as a big block party and we see it as a sport with rules written or not written. You're right, most cachers would've logged that cache even though it was handed to them and not because it was "nice to meet the owner blah-blah-blah" but to add another number to their score. C'mon,get real people !!! How do you log a cache that the owner LITERALLY handed to you and go away feeling good about it ?? Where am I ?? I must be dreaming.

Bottom line: A handout is a handout period. I don't want to offend anyone here, I could go on and one with this responder and his/her fantasy land view on life in general. This is the first time I've ever seen someone find a halfway point between the search and the find and call it 'life.' Wow, that's a whole new perspective.

Interesting. Your "rules to post" say no personal attacks and you did JUST THAT here (and in your other thread). You are a hypocrite who takes this GAME (yes, it's a game, not a sport) way TOO seriously.

THERE ARE NO WRITTEN RULES that say anything against what you are complaining about.

This is a great social game. I suggest you take up a more serious competitive sport. So you don't want to meet people?

Sorry, but you are way too competitive, especially about this game. You need to take a deep breath and have some fun and stop worrying about other cachers.

Greetings softball.I see you looked for and found my new topic which is surprising since you were the loudest anti at my last topic. I welcome you because as I said then,I can go back and forth with you all day and we can disagree all day but at the end of the day I still consider you a fellow cacher and a friend.You must find me at least a little interesting to have followed me here right?

You just made my point.You see gc as a game and I see it as a sport. That,in a nutshell, is the problem between us. You suggest I "take up a more serious,competitive sport ?" I gaurantee there are other cachers out there on planet Earth who take it so seriously they would make me look like you !

Hypocrite? I don't think so. I practice what I preach and fair play doesn't have to be written down for me in a rule book in order for me to know it's wrong.Hey,why not go into a store and shoplift and then when you get busted go like this "I didn't know I wasn't supposed to steal.There wasn't a sign on the window !" Gimme a break.

On second thought, DON'T get over yourself.

Thanks for providing some of the best laughs I've had in this forum in MONTHS.

April 23, 2008

For us it's a sport not a tea party and I think that's the problem with me getting bashed in these forums. The majority of cachers see caching as a big block party and we see it as a sport with rules written or not written.

It is ok if you want to cache as a "sport". Why do you feel that your way is the only way. If you want to compete that much, then get together with other cachers that want to play the same as you. Then only compare your finds to their finds. You can all play on a even level. No "cheating" no clues, no teams and no socializing. To claim that anything else is cheating is beyond reason. They are allowed to cache with others that cache as a game instead of a sport. I find it amazing that you can put others down for caching in a group, but have plenty of reasons why your team is acceptable. It never ceases to amaze me how many people feel the way they cache is the only valid way. Don' t ask for hints, don't read hints, don't discover, don't hide micros, don't hide easy, don't hide hard, don't hide boring, give me a break. No one else is required to play the game only in ways that contribute to your ego being stroked. How anyone else hunts a cache is none of your business unless it's your cache. Go out and hide and seek caches, have fun and try to remember that none of this is "really" important.

April 23, 2008

You and I do not cache alike. And I accept that. It is obvious that you have trouble accepting differences in others and their methods of playing this game. As has been said before when this subject comes up, I play geocaching 1.3, you play geocaching 1.2. Different versions for different cachers. But I am happy playing my version and accept that you would hate every minute of it. (Is that judgmental enough? )

I'm glad I keep all this wisdom on my clipboard for emergencies...

"Everyone plays their own game. There is no sense in trying to police another's mindset as long as it falls within the general parameters of the game." Me (quoting myself from the poll that I posted on 10/23/03.)

The hider is playing a game called geocaching. They are evidently playing it right because their cache was approved.

You are also playing a GAME (sport/hobby/obsession/etc.) evidently called MY version of Geocaching 1.5, or maybe even 2.O. You seem to be failing at your game if you are not able to enjoy it. (also me - I forget when though...)

"Failure is a hard pill to swallow until you realize the only failure you can really have in this sport is the failure to enjoy yourself."

TotemLake 4/26/04

I don't have a problem with people calling me 'names' but all I ask is that you make sure it fits. Failure ? I don't think so. I may be a lot of things but a 'failure' isn't one of em'. You live in a dream world,no offense meant. Do you take anything seriously or is everything just all rosey and la-la-la all the time ? If either of us should swallow the "failure pill",it's you not me. You log credit for a cache handed to you through your car window by the owner and you think that's good ? Do we live on the same planet ?

April 23, 2008

Wow.

Just....wow.

Seriously though, CostCo should stock popcorn in 100 pound bags.

April 23, 2008

You and I do not cache alike. And I accept that. It is obvious that you have trouble accepting differences in others and their methods of playing this game. As has been said before when this subject comes up, I play geocaching 1.3, you play geocaching 1.2. Different versions for different cachers. But I am happy playing my version and accept that you would hate every minute of it. (Is that judgmental enough? )

I'm glad I keep all this wisdom on my clipboard for emergencies...

"Everyone plays their own game. There is no sense in trying to police another's mindset as long as it falls within the general parameters of the game." Me (quoting myself from the poll that I posted on 10/23/03.)

The hider is playing a game called geocaching. They are evidently playing it right because their cache was approved.

You are also playing a GAME (sport/hobby/obsession/etc.) evidently called MY version of Geocaching 1.5, or maybe even 2.O. You seem to be failing at your game if you are not able to enjoy it. (also me - I forget when though...)

"Failure is a hard pill to swallow until you realize the only failure you can really have in this sport is the failure to enjoy yourself."

TotemLake 4/26/04

I don't have a problem with people calling me 'names' but all I ask is that you make sure it fits. Failure ? I don't think so. I may be a lot of things but a 'failure' isn't one of em'. You live in a dream world,no offense meant. Do you take anything seriously or is everything just all rosey and la-la-la all the time ? If either of us should swallow the "failure pill",it's you not me. You log credit for a cache handed to you through your car window by the owner and you think that's good ? Do we live on the same planet ?

You are mistaking me with Snoogans. I don't know how he logs his caches.

Geocaching is not a competition. Never has been, never will be. People keep forgetting this.

Recreational Activity.

Game.

Not a Sport.

A sport has rules and codicils and referees and usually is done by leagues and scary stuff like that. Sports require some level of fitness.

We prefer to call it Goal Oriented Exploring when we have to describe it.

Play the game your way, but don't judge other players against your goals and style. You have judged my style several times, so I feel that I can now judge yours.

-J

April 23, 2008

I don't have a problem with people calling me 'names' but all I ask is that you make sure it fits. Failure ? I don't think so. I may be a lot of things but a 'failure' isn't one of em'. You live in a dream world,no offense meant. Do you take anything seriously or is everything just all rosey and la-la-la all the time ? If either of us should swallow the "failure pill",it's you not me. You log credit for a cache handed to you through your car window by the owner and you think that's good ? Do we live on the same planet ?

Why is someone on a different planet if they don't play the game how you play it? I'm being serious, too. Because you've asked what people thought, they answer, you personally insult (and don't want it in return) and can't seem to grasp other people's opinions and thoughts.

Why is this other person a failure? Because they don't take caching as life or death? And because of that they take nothing else seriously?

This is the one thing I don't take seriously. That's why it's so fun.

April 23, 2008

Because you've asked what people thought, they answer, you personally insult (and don't want it in return) and can't seem to grasp other people's opinions and thoughts.

In my short time here, I've noticed that a lot of folks aren't looking for (differing) opinions or advice, but rather affirmation.

8.4k · April 23, 2008

You and I do not cache alike. And I accept that. It is obvious that you have trouble accepting differences in others and their methods of playing this game. As has been said before when this subject comes up, I play geocaching 1.3, you play geocaching 1.2. Different versions for different cachers. But I am happy playing my version and accept that you would hate every minute of it. (Is that judgmental enough? )

I'm glad I keep all this wisdom on my clipboard for emergencies...

"Everyone plays their own game. There is no sense in trying to police another's mindset as long as it falls within the general parameters of the game." Me (quoting myself from the poll that I posted on 10/23/03.)

The hider is playing a game called geocaching. They are evidently playing it right because their cache was approved.

You are also playing a GAME (sport/hobby/obsession/etc.) evidently called MY version of Geocaching 1.5, or maybe even 2.O. You seem to be failing at your game if you are not able to enjoy it. (also me - I forget when though...)

"Failure is a hard pill to swallow until you realize the only failure you can really have in this sport is the failure to enjoy yourself."

TotemLake 4/26/04

I don't have a problem with people calling me 'names' but all I ask is that you make sure it fits. Failure ? I don't think so. I may be a lot of things but a 'failure' isn't one of em'. You live in a dream world,no offense meant. Do you take anything seriously or is everything just all rosey and la-la-la all the time ? If either of us should swallow the "failure pill",it's you not me. You log credit for a cache handed to you through your car window by the owner and you think that's good ? Do we live on the same planet ?

Love it. Love it. Love it. Keep them zingers comin'. That suspension of disbelief refrain you like to end your posts with is killin' me. Don't stop THAT whatever you do.

Gosh I love this sport.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Snoogans

April 23, 2008

Because you've asked what people thought, they answer, you personally insult (and don't want it in return) and can't seem to grasp other people's opinions and thoughts.

In my short time here, I've noticed that a lot of folks aren't looking for (differing) opinions or advice, but rather affirmation.

I totally agree. But at least most people seem to be willing to bend a little. So it seems, anyway.

April 23, 2008

You and I do not cache alike. And I accept that. It is obvious that you have trouble accepting differences in others and their methods of playing this game. As has been said before when this subject comes up, I play geocaching 1.3, you play geocaching 1.2. Different versions for different cachers. But I am happy playing my version and accept that you would hate every minute of it. (Is that judgmental enough? )

I'm glad I keep all this wisdom on my clipboard for emergencies...

"Everyone plays their own game. There is no sense in trying to police another's mindset as long as it falls within the general parameters of the game." Me (quoting myself from the poll that I posted on 10/23/03.)

The hider is playing a game called geocaching. They are evidently playing it right because their cache was approved.

You are also playing a GAME (sport/hobby/obsession/etc.) evidently called MY version of Geocaching 1.5, or maybe even 2.O. You seem to be failing at your game if you are not able to enjoy it. (also me - I forget when though...)

"Failure is a hard pill to swallow until you realize the only failure you can really have in this sport is the failure to enjoy yourself."

TotemLake 4/26/04

I don't have a problem with people calling me 'names' but all I ask is that you make sure it fits. Failure ? I don't think so. I may be a lot of things but a 'failure' isn't one of em'. You live in a dream world,no offense meant. Do you take anything seriously or is everything just all rosey and la-la-la all the time ? If either of us should swallow the "failure pill",it's you not me. You log credit for a cache handed to you through your car window by the owner and you think that's good ? Do we live on the same planet ?

Love it. Love it. Love it. Keep them zingers comin'. That suspension of disbelief refrain you like to end your posts with is killin' me. Don't stop that whatever you do.

Gosh I love this sport.

You know what I really love about this sport?

That one day I'll be able to find a snoogans trademark signature coin in a cache!

April 23, 2008

You and I do not cache alike. And I accept that. It is obvious that you have trouble accepting differences in others and their methods of playing this game. As has been said before when this subject comes up, I play geocaching 1.3, you play geocaching 1.2. Different versions for different cachers. But I am happy playing my version and accept that you would hate every minute of it. (Is that judgmental enough? )

I'm glad I keep all this wisdom on my clipboard for emergencies...

"Everyone plays their own game. There is no sense in trying to police another's mindset as long as it falls within the general parameters of the game." Me (quoting myself from the poll that I posted on 10/23/03.)

The hider is playing a game called geocaching. They are evidently playing it right because their cache was approved.

You are also playing a GAME (sport/hobby/obsession/etc.) evidently called MY version of Geocaching 1.5, or maybe even 2.O. You seem to be failing at your game if you are not able to enjoy it. (also me - I forget when though...)

"Failure is a hard pill to swallow until you realize the only failure you can really have in this sport is the failure to enjoy yourself."

TotemLake 4/26/04

I don't have a problem with people calling me 'names' but all I ask is that you make sure it fits. Failure ? I don't think so. I may be a lot of things but a 'failure' isn't one of em'. You live in a dream world,no offense meant. Do you take anything seriously or is everything just all rosey and la-la-la all the time ? If either of us should swallow the "failure pill",it's you not me. You log credit for a cache handed to you through your car window by the owner and you think that's good ? Do we live on the same planet ?

Love it. Love it. Love it. Keep them zingers comin'. That suspension of disbelief refrain you like to end your posts with is killin' me. Don't stop that whatever you do.

Gosh I love this sport.

You know what I really love about this sport?

That one day I'll be able to find a snoogans trademark signature coin in a cache!

I heard that he will give them to you at events and if you meet him along the way too!

April 23, 2008

For us it's a sport not a tea party and I think that's the problem with me getting bashed in these forums. The majority of cachers see caching as a big block party and we see it as a sport with rules written or not written.

It is ok if you want to cache as a "sport". Why do you feel that your way is the only way. If you want to compete that much, then get together with other cachers that want to play the same as you. Then only compare your finds to their finds. You can all play on a even level. No "cheating" no clues, no teams and no socializing. To claim that anything else is cheating is beyond reason. They are allowed to cache with others that cache as a game instead of a sport. I find it amazing that you can put others down for caching in a group, but have plenty of reasons why your team is acceptable. It never ceases to amaze me how many people feel the way they cache is the only valid way. Don' t ask for hints, don't read hints, don't discover, don't hide micros, don't hide easy, don't hide hard, don't hide boring, give me a break. No one else is required to play the game only in ways that contribute to your ego being stroked. How anyone else hunts a cache is none of your business unless it's your cache. Go out and hide and seek caches, have fun and try to remember that none of this is "really" important.

I'm not putting anyone down. AGAIN ,for the zillionth time,go out and hunt with an army if you want to but don't cheat and call the cache owner for help,don't go out to GZ with your army AND the guy who hid the cache and don't log 1,000 people as the FTF cuz guess what ? First means first.You can't have 10 people saying they were first.It's stupid and makes ZERO sense. Have you ever heard of a group winning a marathon ? No. One guy is first,he wins the race and he hits the ribbon at the finish!!! That's it.It's simple. What is so hard to understand here?

And again,your response is your opinion about me personally and basically nothing about your opinion on the topic.

Wow.I don't know how much more I can take.

8.4k · April 23, 2008

You know what I really love about this sport?

That one day I'll be able to find a snoogans trademark signature coin in a cache!

If you don't wanna wait, I'll send YOU or ANYONE that wants one, a FREE coin.

Just send S.A.S.E. to:

Snoogans c/o PRESS Your Luck!

P.O. Box 516

Missouri City, Texas 77459-0516

Edited April 23, 2008 by Snoogans

April 23, 2008

First means first.You can't have 10 people saying they were first.It's stupid and makes ZERO sense. Have you ever heard of a group winning a marathon ? No. One guy is first,he wins the race and he hits the ribbon at the finish!!! That's it.It's simple. What is so hard to understand here?

Have you ever heard of a relay race?

April 23, 2008

I'm not putting anyone down. AGAIN ,for the zillionth time,go out and hunt with an army if you want to but don't cheat and call the cache owner for help,don't go out to GZ with your army AND the guy who hid the cache and don't log 1,000 people as the FTF cuz guess what ? First means first.You can't have 10 people saying they were first.It's stupid and makes ZERO sense. Have you ever heard of a group winning a marathon ? No. One guy is first,he wins the race and he hits the ribbon at the finish!!! That's it.It's simple. What is so hard to understand here?

And again,your response is your opinion about me personally and basically nothing about your opinion on the topic.

Wow.I don't know how much more I can take.

<sigh>

For the zillionth time, none of this is cheating. Find me rules on this site that say it's cheating. I'm on topic here -- I am answering you again. It's not cheating. That's the question in the topic title.

Also, that glass house must have a lot of broken windows. You again talk about people getting personal, but you do it in the majority of posts in here.

On topic:

It's not cheating.

(please multiply by a zillion)

April 23, 2008

You and I do not cache alike. And I accept that. It is obvious that you have trouble accepting differences in others and their methods of playing this game. As has been said before when this subject comes up, I play geocaching 1.3, you play geocaching 1.2. Different versions for different cachers. But I am happy playing my version and accept that you would hate every minute of it. (Is that judgmental enough? )

I'm glad I keep all this wisdom on my clipboard for emergencies...

"Everyone plays their own game. There is no sense in trying to police another's mindset as long as it falls within the general parameters of the game." Me (quoting myself from the poll that I posted on 10/23/03.)

The hider is playing a game called geocaching. They are evidently playing it right because their cache was approved.

You are also playing a GAME (sport/hobby/obsession/etc.) evidently called MY version of Geocaching 1.5, or maybe even 2.O. You seem to be failing at your game if you are not able to enjoy it. (also me - I forget when though...)

"Failure is a hard pill to swallow until you realize the only failure you can really have in this sport is the failure to enjoy yourself."

TotemLake 4/26/04

I don't have a problem with people calling me 'names' but all I ask is that you make sure it fits. Failure ? I don't think so. I may be a lot of things but a 'failure' isn't one of em'. You live in a dream world,no offense meant. Do you take anything seriously or is everything just all rosey and la-la-la all the time ? If either of us should swallow the "failure pill",it's you not me. You log credit for a cache handed to you through your car window by the owner and you think that's good ? Do we live on the same planet ?

Love it. Love it. Love it. Keep them zingers comin'. That suspension of disbelief refrain you like to end your posts with is killin' me. Don't stop that whatever you do.

Gosh I love this sport.

You know what I really love about this sport?

That one day I'll be able to find a snoogans trademark signature coin in a cache!

I heard that he will give them to you at events and if you meet him along the way too!

I have a question.Why is it that in every forum I visit where there a people with really nothing of substance to say they use bouncing cartoon smiley faces to get attention? Is it just me or does anyone else find this annoying? It's kind of like the little kid who keeps interrupting his mom when she's having a conversation with another adult.

Somebody save me PLEASE !! Am I back in kindergarten or what ? Smiley faces should've gone out in the 70's !! Gimme bouncing anything else but not smiley faces.wow.

Edited April 23, 2008 by TeamSeekAndWeShallFind

April 23, 2008

You know what I really love about this sport?

That one day I'll be able to find a snoogans trademark signature coin in a cache!

If you don't wanna wait, I'll send YOU or ANYONE that wants one a FREE coin.

Just send S.A.S.E. to:

Snoogans c/o PRESS Your Luck!

P.O. Box 516

Missouri City, Texas 77459-0516

Tomorrow, I'll be sending one out! The snoogan coin will be one of the best in my collection!

April 23, 2008

For us it's a sport not a tea party and I think that's the problem with me getting bashed in these forums. The majority of cachers see caching as a big block party and we see it as a sport with rules written or not written.

It is ok if you want to cache as a "sport". Why do you feel that your way is the only way. If you want to compete that much, then get together with other cachers that want to play the same as you. Then only compare your finds to their finds. You can all play on a even level. No "cheating" no clues, no teams and no socializing. To claim that anything else is cheating is beyond reason. They are allowed to cache with others that cache as a game instead of a sport. I find it amazing that you can put others down for caching in a group, but have plenty of reasons why your team is acceptable. It never ceases to amaze me how many people feel the way they cache is the only valid way. Don' t ask for hints, don't read hints, don't discover, don't hide micros, don't hide easy, don't hide hard, don't hide boring, give me a break. No one else is required to play the game only in ways that contribute to your ego being stroked. How anyone else hunts a cache is none of your business unless it's your cache. Go out and hide and seek caches, have fun and try to remember that none of this is "really" important.

I'm not putting anyone down. AGAIN ,for the zillionth time,go out and hunt with an army if you want to but don't cheat and call the cache owner for help,don't go out to GZ with your army AND the guy who hid the cache and don't log 1,000 people as the FTF cuz guess what ? First means first.You can't have 10 people saying they were first.It's stupid and makes ZERO sense. Have you ever heard of a group winning a marathon ? No. One guy is first,he wins the race and he hits the ribbon at the finish!!! That's it.It's simple. What is so hard to understand here?

And again,your response is your opinion about me personally and basically nothing about your opinion on the topic.

Wow.I don't know how much more I can take.

Define cheating.

Define fair.

Is calling the cache owner cheating if they allow it?

Where are the rules for this sport of yours. Until you define it to the rest of us, we won't know that we are cheating.

Caching is... undefined. You can't cheat at something that doesn't have rules.

I can't wait until you notice the event temp cache loggers and other odd ways of playing that folks have. You probably wouldn't approve of Cache Machines either.

Oh well, not my worry.

J

8.4k · April 23, 2008

First means first.You can't have 10 people saying they were first.It's stupid and makes ZERO sense. Have you ever heard of a group winning a marathon ? No. One guy is first,he wins the race and he hits the ribbon at the finish!!! That's it.It's simple. What is so hard to understand here?

Have you ever heard of a relay race?

Yeah, if the cache police find out your team FTF'd on steroids they take ALL the gold medals away. Not just one.

April 23, 2008

I have a question.Why is it that in every forum I visit where there a people with really nothing of substance to say

It's pretty funny how you say you don't want personal attacks, and then you say stuff like that. It's so funny that I feel I must post this:

April 23, 2008

You and I do not cache alike. And I accept that. It is obvious that you have trouble accepting differences in others and their methods of playing this game. As has been said before when this subject comes up, I play geocaching 1.3, you play geocaching 1.2. Different versions for different cachers. But I am happy playing my version and accept that you would hate every minute of it. (Is that judgmental enough? )

I'm glad I keep all this wisdom on my clipboard for emergencies...

"Everyone plays their own game. There is no sense in trying to police another's mindset as long as it falls within the general parameters of the game." Me (quoting myself from the poll that I posted on 10/23/03.)

The hider is playing a game called geocaching. They are evidently playing it right because their cache was approved.

You are also playing a GAME (sport/hobby/obsession/etc.) evidently called MY version of Geocaching 1.5, or maybe even 2.O. You seem to be failing at your game if you are not able to enjoy it. (also me - I forget when though...)

"Failure is a hard pill to swallow until you realize the only failure you can really have in this sport is the failure to enjoy yourself."

TotemLake 4/26/04

I don't have a problem with people calling me 'names' but all I ask is that you make sure it fits. Failure ? I don't think so. I may be a lot of things but a 'failure' isn't one of em'. You live in a dream world,no offense meant. Do you take anything seriously or is everything just all rosey and la-la-la all the time ? If either of us should swallow the "failure pill",it's you not me. You log credit for a cache handed to you through your car window by the owner and you think that's good ? Do we live on the same planet ?

Love it. Love it. Love it. Keep them zingers comin'. That suspension of disbelief refrain you like to end your posts with is killin' me. Don't stop that whatever you do.

Gosh I love this sport.

You know what I really love about this sport?

That one day I'll be able to find a snoogans trademark signature coin in a cache!

I heard that he will give them to you at events and if you meet him along the way too!

I have a question.Why is it that in every forum I visit where there a people with really nothing of substance to say they use bouncing cartoon smiley faces to get attention? Is it just me or does anyone else find this annoying? It's kind of like the little kid who keeps interrupting his mom when she's having a conversation with another adult.

You can't stop me from answering your questions, and you can't anwser mine, so you have fallen back on attacking instead. Very adult.

Would you prefer I type ROFLMAO?

April 23, 2008

After reading your profile page I can only say,

Ask yourself WWJD?

8.4k · April 23, 2008

I have a question.Why is it that in every forum I visit where there a people with really nothing of substance to say they use bouncing cartoon smiley faces to get attention? Is it just me or does anyone else find this annoying? It's kind of like the little kid who keeps interrupting his mom when she's having a conversation with another adult.

Ahhhhh. There it is. Irony. That's what I live for.

You should probably start your own forum and delete all the posts that don't agree with you.

(See? Not nearly as much fun as it could be without emoticons.)

April 23, 2008

In case you need some help with the answer, (not cheating)

I believe the answer would be "live and let live".

April 23, 2008

After reading your profile page I can only say,

Ask yourself WWJD?

Nightcaching instead of posting in the forums. Obviously.

8.4k · April 23, 2008

After reading your profile page I can only say,

Ask yourself WWJD?

Nightcaching instead of posting in the forums. Obviously.

Any one of these would do? (prolly goin' straight to heck for that one.)

April 23, 2008

I'm not putting anyone down. AGAIN ,for the zillionth time,go out and hunt with an army if you want to but don't cheat and call the cache owner for help,don't go out to GZ with your army AND the guy who hid the cache and don't log 1,000 people as the FTF cuz guess what ? First means first.You can't have 10 people saying they were first.It's stupid and makes ZERO sense. Have you ever heard of a group winning a marathon ? No. One guy is first,he wins the race and he hits the ribbon at the finish!!! That's it.It's simple. What is so hard to understand here?

And again,your response is your opinion about me personally and basically nothing about your opinion on the topic.

Wow.I don't know how much more I can take.

<sigh>

For the zillionth time, none of this is cheating. Find me rules on this site that say it's cheating. I'm on topic here -- I am answering you again. It's not cheating. That's the question in the topic title.

Also, that glass house must have a lot of broken windows. You again talk about people getting personal, but you do it in the majority of posts in here.

On topic:

It's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

(please multiply by a zillion)

Oh my gosh!! Do I really have to say this again ? No, I don't but for some reason I'm going to. So here we go AGAIN.....Does it have to be written down for you in the rules or lack thereof ?? Does the gc site actually have to lay it out for you what cheating is ?? Do you go through life waiting for people to hand you a rule book on what's right and wrong or do you just know because you're an adult human being ??? Is there a rule book that says "Don't cheat on your wife/husband, it's wrong." No there isn't but you know it's wrong right? What you're saying is,sorry,no offense meant,but it's stupid. When you say "how can there be cheating if there aren't any rules" is ridiculous. If you won a big pot while you were playing poker because you sneaked a peek at the guy's cards sitting next to you is that ok too ?? When you go into a poker room to play poker is there a sign on the door that says "No cheating.No sneaking a peek at the guy's cards sitting next to you ???" No there isn't but you know it's cheating right ??

8.4k · April 23, 2008

Is there a rule book that says "Don't cheat on your wife/husband, it's wrong." No there isn't

Seriously? There isn't?

I thought it was called, The Holy Bible?

April 23, 2008

After reading your profile page I can only say,

Ask yourself WWJD?

Nightcaching instead of posting in the forums. Obviously.

Any one of these would do? (prolly goin' straight to heck for that one.)

My comment to this comment is as follows....You found me interesting enough to go and check out my profile page. I on the other hand have not found you interesting enough to do the same. Regardless of what you think of my profile page,bottom line is you went there didn't you. I have yet to be intrigued enough to visit someone's profile page in order to get a clearer picture of who they are but you did right?

PS: I'll tell you what Jesus would do.If he couldn't find a cache he certainly wouldn't cheat.

Edited April 23, 2008 by TeamSeekAndWeShallFind

April 23, 2008

I'm not putting anyone down. AGAIN ,for the zillionth time,go out and hunt with an army if you want to but don't cheat and call the cache owner for help,don't go out to GZ with your army AND the guy who hid the cache and don't log 1,000 people as the FTF cuz guess what ? First means first.You can't have 10 people saying they were first.It's stupid and makes ZERO sense. Have you ever heard of a group winning a marathon ? No. One guy is first,he wins the race and he hits the ribbon at the finish!!! That's it.It's simple. What is so hard to understand here?

And again,your response is your opinion about me personally and basically nothing about your opinion on the topic.

Wow.I don't know how much more I can take.

<sigh>

For the zillionth time, none of this is cheating. Find me rules on this site that say it's cheating. I'm on topic here -- I am answering you again. It's not cheating. That's the question in the topic title.

Also, that glass house must have a lot of broken windows. You again talk about people getting personal, but you do it in the majority of posts in here.

On topic:

It's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

It's not cheating.

(please multiply by a zillion)

Oh my gosh!! Do I really have to say this again ? No, I don't but for some reason I'm going to. So here we go AGAIN.....Does it have to be written down for you in the rules or lack thereof ?? Does the gc site actually have to lay it out for you what cheating is ?? Do you go through life waiting for people to hand you a rule book on what's right and wrong or do you just know because you're an adult human being ??? Is there a rule book that says "Don't cheat on your wife/husband, it's wrong." No there isn't but you know it's wrong right? What you're saying is,sorry,no offense meant,but it's stupid. When you say "how can there be cheating if there aren't any rules" is ridiculous. If you won a big pot while you were playing poker because you sneaked a peek at the guy's cards sitting next to you is that ok too ?? When you go into a poker room to play poker is there a sign on the door that says "No cheating.No sneaking a peek at the guy's cards sitting next to you ???" No there isn't but you know it's cheating right ??

Apparently, I can't have an opinion, eh?

My point is proven so easily with you.

Yes, I want it in writing. Why? Because Groundspeak has basically left this game to be interpreted by people differently. Therefore, what's cheating to you isn't to others.

Cheating in poker is written down if you look at card rules.

As for cheating on a spouse, well, in the eyes of the law it's pretty much written down if you head off to divorce court.

And again, you said in the beginning of this thread to not attack personally, but you did it again as you've done through much of this thread.

You hate it when you don't get your way and when people don't agree with you, eh?

And again, ON TOPIC, my opinion is that it's not cheating.

8.4k · April 23, 2008

When you go into a poker room to play poker is there a sign on the door that says "No cheating.No sneaking a peek at the guy's cards sitting next to you ???" No there isn't but you know it's cheating right ??

I've been frequenting poker rooms since the 80's and they ALWAYS have the rules posted somewhere in the room.

April 23, 2008

PS: I'll tell you what Jesus would do.If he couldn't find a cache he certainly wouldn't cheat.

Probably true. But if he didn't think the cachers were cheating when they asked for a hint, would you blast and personally attack him, too?

April 23, 2008

After reading your profile page I can only say,

Ask yourself WWJD?

Nightcaching instead of posting in the forums. Obviously.

Any one of these would do? (prolly goin' straight to heck for that one.)

My comment to this comment is as follows....You found me interesting enough to go and check out my profile page. I on the other hand have not found you interesting enough to do the same. Regardless of what you think of my profile page,bottom line is you went there didn't you. I have yet to be intrigued enough to visit someone's profile page in order to get a clearer picture of who they are but you did right?

What a comeback! You got me there. I forgot that this was all about whoever looks at a profile page first loses. I guess that means you win, and I'm going to bed.

8.4k · April 23, 2008

PS: I'll tell you what Jesus would do.If he couldn't find a cache he certainly wouldn't cheat.

Yes, BUT would he decode the hint?

April 23, 2008

This thread is a joke, right?

Unbelievable!

I clicked on the smiley to the left without actually typing my smileys.....did I cheat?

This thread is going to be legendary someday!! And I was there to see the slow motion trainwreck....that NEVER ENDS!!

The first time I tired to post this, I got this message "You have posted a message with more emoticons that this board allows. Please reduce the number of emoticons you've added to the message"

LOL......

8.4k · April 23, 2008

This thread is going to be legendary someday!! And I was there to see the slow motion trainwreck....that NEVER ENDS!!

LOL......

I was thinkin' the same thing when I read the OP rules.

"Why does my post say, TeamSeekAndWeShallFind?"

April 23, 2008

Is there a rule book that says "Don't cheat on your wife/husband, it's wrong." No there isn't

Seriously? There isn't?

I thought it was called, The Holy Bible?

I knew this comment was coming.You said "WWJD",instead of spelling it out and now you're gonna actually type the words "The Holy Bible ?" Again,I'm rendered speechless with this comment and this/these individuals. What's wrong ? Afraid to type out his name ?

This is off topic and I'm done.

April 23, 2008

This is off topic and I'm done.

I'll believe that when I see it.

April 23, 2008

What you're saying is,sorry,no offense meant,but it's stupid.

How could anyone take offense at that?

*"lol" emoticon redacted at OP's request*

April 23, 2008

I knew this comment was coming.You said "WWJD",instead of spelling it out and now you're gonna actually type the words "The Holy Bible ?"

Well.....WWJD was a popular phrase a couple years back...and everyone knew what Snoogans meant.......I don't remember HB being popular......

Again,I'm rendered speechless

Well that's just silly....you were never rendered speechless...I have the thread to prove it!

Seriously, is this a "test thread" to use for new admins? Alan Funt, are you out there....where's the camera?

Haven't seen Keystone around....HHHHHHMMMMMM......never seen them together.....

8.4k · April 23, 2008

Is there a rule book that says "Don't cheat on your wife/husband, it's wrong." No there isn't

Seriously? There isn't?

I thought it was called, The Holy Bible?

I knew this comment was coming.You said "WWJD",instead of spelling it out and now you're gonna actually type the words "The Holy Bible ?" Again,I'm rendered speechless with this comment and this/these individuals. What's wrong ? Afraid to type out his name ?

This is off topic and I'm done.

Maybe the "bouncing smilies" mesmerized you because I NEVER typed WWJD until now.

This is your sand box. Don't leave the lid off or all the neighborhood cats are gonna come leave ummm, presents, in it.

I'm gonna miss ya girl dude. This has been a hoot. Don't stay away too long.

This was more fun than the old Trans Fats thread in the OT forum........

I knew this comment was coming.You said "WWJD",instead of spelling it out and now you're gonna actually type the words "The Holy Bible ?" Again,I'm rendered speechless with this comment and this/these individuals. What's wrong ? Afraid to type out his name ?

Jeremy or Jesus? Not scared of either one.

BTW- Glad I caught the reference to this thread. More entertainment.

Edited April 23, 2008 by Snoogans

April 23, 2008

Is There Cheating When it Comes to Hunting a Difficult Cache, How about new abbreviations for FTF ?

Yes I agree there should be some new abbreviations. The difficult caches that I hunt usually require a 5-10 mile hike. I think anyone who rides an ATV to such a cache for the FTF should be required to log as FTFWATV, so that I can claim the true FTF when I make the hike.

We all play the game differently, I see no reason for anyone to try and make up rules to impose on others.

Edited April 23, 2008 by southpawaz

April 23, 2008

Somebody save me PLEASE !! Am I back in kindergarten or what ? Smiley faces should've gone out in the 70's !! Gimme bouncing anything else but not smiley faces.wow.

You asked for it....

When I'm done reading this thread I will reply to the topic at hand...been reading this for over an hour now...

9.3k · April 23, 2008

First, let me welcome you to Flame Suit Central.

Kudos on your success with those evil buggers!

Now, for the meat & potatoes of your post:

who should get the FTF honors on this evil micro ?

My answer would be, whoever was the first person, or group, to locate the cache should get the FTF.

Us or the group that CHEATED and asked for clues and went out to GZ with the owner ???

As you mention later in your post, there is a fairly common mantra amongst cachers that there can be no cheating in a game devoid of rules. I believe you referred to it as "nonsens" It is my belief that the mantra is pretty accurate, and your comment is insulting, but I recognize that not everyone utilizes the same playbook. I suspect that if Groundspeak were to magically create a bunch of rules just to appease those folks who can't seem to live without them, that asking for hints and caching with the owner would not be among them. I doubt even the staunchest Puritan would consider either to be an ethical issue.

OUR OPINION...If you wanna hunt in groups and cheat then stick to the huge ammo cans

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, as am I. Something that has me curious though; according to your original post, you always cache as a group. (Yes, two people constitute a group) Apparently you don't believe that your group effort is cheating, yet 4 or 5 people caching together is cheating? Where is the fine line? Is it 3 people? 4? 5? At what point does a group become cheaters simply by the number of warm bodies within it?

There must be 200 hidden ammo cans to every evil micro right ?

I would argue that the opposite is true.

Good luck in your battle. I think you'll need it.

Is There Cheating When it Comes to Hunting a Difficult Cache

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