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Paper GeoCoins


TeamSeekAndWeShallFind
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Thanks, I try!! :DB)

 

The coins I have run across were about 4 inches around with a picture of a coin on it. Not paper. Those weird but they work! I guess if you have too many coins go missing you think of other ways of sharing them!

 

I'M BAAAAACK !!! I thought I posted my last thought on this topic that I started but something funny happened on the way back from the forum !!

 

Remember my original post about our outing at Saw-Wee-Kee way back last July when we were newbies and we trekked through all that rugged,hilly,muddy,nasty terrain in a torrential downpour of rain that was so heavy we couldn't even see much less read our gps's ?? Remember I told you how we had to cut our outing way short because after awhile the ear busting lightning started and we thought we were gonna end up like a couple of burnt steaks ?? Remember I told you that we decided to grab one more cache,the one with the Alaskan wolf geocoin cuz we never saw a geocoin before and we thought it would be so cool cuz at least we could drive the 45 miles back home with something to show for it but when we got to the cache and didn't see any coin only a picture of the coin laminated in plastic we stood there in the pouring rain soaked to the bone and covered in mud just staring at eachother going "What the heck is this supposed to be ? "

 

Well, the folks that own the DREADED laminated paper Alaska geocoin ( If I did tell you their name I gaurantee all of you would laugh your heads off) are now moving it around themselves !! I have the paper coin on my traveler watchlist and for the last few days and just today when I left here for what I thought was the last time,they moved it again ! On their coin page there are several peeved off cachers who expressed themselves about the paper coin and what's funny is it seems I was the first to leave my negative log on their cache page (which they deleted),and right after that others started saying the exact same things I did. What I don't get is why were'nt their logs deleted too ? Is it me ? Am I that rude ? And what's REALLY FUNNY is this thing somehow made it's way to Norway and some Norwegian cacher left a ranting log on the coin page asking the same thing "What the heck is this supposed to be and where's the real coin??"

 

So you see, the opinion on the paper geocoin fiasco is universal ! Well from Illinois to Norway anyway ;)

 

Oh well, I think it's pretty funny that they move it around themselves and they're doing all kinds of funky things with it that I don't even get. I came all the way back here to tell you about it.

 

Thanks !

Edited by TeamSeekAndWeShallFind
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I think you need to go to a cache to find the cache, not to look for a certain item in it. I have found several "Fake" coins so far. Why let it bother me. It is still trackable, I seen what the coin looks like. I logged it and got the icon. Funny, that is everything the real one would of done for me too. ;)

 

Thank you for the reply,however,I'll say it one more time! We DO NOT go to caches looking for ANYTHING but if a paper coin owner is going to lead me to believe they have an actual coin in one of the caches I'm going for then that's wrong. If we went around only doing caches with GeoCoins in them we wouldn't be out but once in a blue moon doing one cache here and one cache there.Everyone's getting on my case when you should be getting on the case of the person who misleads others on their coin page by showing a photo of the actual coin and NEVER mentioning that it's nothing but a piece of paper ! Also,I'm not angry about anything but I do get peeved when responders don't read my logs in their entirety ! When you have to defend yourself left and right you tend to come across a little harsh.

 

I opened this discussion for a simple reason,to get your opinions on the paper coin. I didn't ask for your opinion on me or my opinion ! I asked FOR YOUR OPINION ON PAPER COINS ! That's it. I get the picture and I'm going to respond to the rest of the folks that replied and then I'm moving on to my next beef which I'm sure you're all gonna love. thank you

 

 

Ok, I'll try it again. No, I don't mind finding paper trackable geocoins in caches that I find. I can see why people do it too. There is too many coins being taken from caches to never be seen again. It's there coin so they can do what they want with it.

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I haven't been here in a while, but I thought this was an interesting topic. I agree with TeamSeekAndWeShallFind that is must be terribly disappointing to go trekking to a cache and not find a geocoin that was supposed to be there. I think all Geocachers have had that happen on many occasions. I have only had the disappointment of finding a "paper coin" once and it was a doozy. My son and I were in search of the Geocoin Fairy coin and what we found was a paper coin glued to a foam circle. And if this wasn't bad enough, this person's paper coin said, "There's No Fool Like a Dancing Fool Geocaching since November 1, 2004". Wow, I thought this person should know better! We were very disappointed by this, but we were more disappointed in the Geocacher who traded a "paper coin" for the Geocoin Fairy coin. It took at while, but we got over it.

 

I agree with many of the other forum postings that if there is a paper facsimile of a coin, it should definitely be noted on the coin's page. That way, the Geocacher can decide if they want to go out and find it or not.

 

On the flip side, I definitely understand why some Geocachers do this. Believe me, it is more disappointing to have your real geocoin stolen than to be disappointed by a "paper coin". When you have had a few coins stolen, you will understand the feeling.

 

I have put out a few coins and TBs and I must say the ones I have in Europe have faired much better than the ones I have in the US. In fact, I don't think I have any viable ones in the US anymore.

 

Since I can't seem to keep any coins traveling in the US, I decided to give them away instead. I have had so much fun doing this. I will leave a coin in a cache with a special note or card which might say something like. . ."Lucky you! You have just found one of my unactived-------and it's yours to keep." Many times the Geocacher that found it emails me to thank me for the coin. I have found this much more rewarding than sending out my coins to travel and instead finding out they have been stolen.

 

Oh, one more thing. . .TeamSeekAndWeShallFind-you have some awesome posts for the caches you have found. I am sure the owners of the caches really enjoy your posts. I know I did. ;)

Edited by Degai
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....If people are going to be so untrusting of the majority of us,then they need to keep their coins locked up in a safety deposit box or something. It's not like they cost a fortune or anything that you would have to insult others honesty and integrity just to protect this thing....

 

Why would you deny people the enjoyment of using a tracking number and system they have paid for?

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....Remember my original post about our outing at Saw-Wee-Kee way back last July when we were newbies and we trekked through all that rugged,hilly,muddy,nasty terrain in a torrential downpour of rain that was so heavy we couldn't even see much less read our gps's ?? Remember I told you how we had to cut our outing way short because after awhile the ear busting lightning started and we thought we were gonna end up like a couple of burnt steaks ??...

 

Sounds like a lot of fun. After all that you are going to take time out of your busy death defying day to get annoyed at a slip of paper.

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....If people are going to be so untrusting of the majority of us,then they need to keep their coins locked up in a safety deposit box or something. It's not like they cost a fortune or anything that you would have to insult others honesty and integrity just to protect this thing....

 

Why would you deny people the enjoyment of using a tracking number and system they have paid for?

 

That's the way I see it. I have quite a few coins and MOST have been given to me. They mean something to me and I would NEVER release the coins.... BUT all those tracking numbers are going to waste and I plan to release the numbers, but NOT with a paper proxy. Just some nifty piece of cache swag or a broken McToy will do. It will be a TB with a coin icon and I'll plainly state that on the page.

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I kinda find myself agreeing with the OP... sorta... ;)

I love coins. All coins. I love the way they feel. I love the artwork. I love the effort that went into creating them. I love the hefty feel they have. Substantial. Very kewl! I do not like photocopies of coins. I don't log 'em. I don't move 'em. I don't discover 'em. I will say that the only photocopies I've seen were done by folks who had the actual coin lost or stolen after it was released, as opposed to the one mentioned in the OP which apparently was safely at home with the owner. That seems even cheesier than releasing a photocopy of a stolen coin.

 

I've had coins and bugs disappear. It's gonna happen. I'm not going to toss out a bunch of photocopies as a response.

 

That being said, I've never gotten worked up over finding a photocopy in a cache.

 

Life is short.

 

Go cache. B)

 

(Edit to add: Sorry about the smileys. I forgot how stooopid they make me look)

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I hate proxy coins. As a collector, and as someone who's had coins stolen from the first cache I released them in, I UNDERSTAND WHY people do it, but I still can't stand em.

 

We started drilling holes and padlocking our traveling coins so they don't go missing. I don't foresee us ever setting a copy loose because when we find em, its a serious disappointment.

 

There's nothing enjoyable about finding a trackable piece of laminated paper. ;) But... thats just MY opinion. B)

 

If Im VERY worried about a certain coin being stolen - I wont release it. We all know some coins are more likely to disappear. Those can stay in my personal collection, either unactivated or for people to discover at events. :D

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I refuse to spend a whole hour reading the whole thread so I will just give my opinion on paper coins.

 

I think anyone that releases a real coin in my state is CRAZY! We have more than our fair share of coin thiefs and I wouldn't expect a coin to last more than one week without disappearing. Heck I wont even release a Travel Bug around here.

 

Do I have coins out there? yes I do...I sent mine to Australia...they dont seem to have as much trouble over there (knocking on wood).

 

Would I release a paper coin? Yup...if I wanted to release it locally that is what I would do...no doubt about it.

 

Check out this cache....this is why I would never release a coin in these parts.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...4b873&log=y

 

Then check out the thread discussing this.. http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...&hl=geocoin

 

I stopped buying coins when I realized this was going on......The ones I have just sit in a basket gathering dust....to afraid to release them locally where I cache....and well...it's just not worth buying them if you cant release them.

 

I want you to buy one and release it just to see how long it lasts....at that moment...I think you will understand where most of us are coming from.

Edited by WeatherednBoston
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Seems this can get rather heated. To me each to his / her own, if you are happy to play with paper coins all well and good. For me I love coins, there is nothing like finding a coin in a cache, the weight, the effort that someone went to, his ideas etc. It just makes caching a more enjoyable exsperiance, for me a lot would be lost if people only started releasing paper geocoin copies.

 

So from a personal point I will only release the real solid coin, if I feel it is too valuable then I would rather keep it and let them be discovered at meetings etc. I will also only log / move along a real coin, but thats my way of caching. It does not offend me if someone else does it, I just ignore it and move on to the next cache hoping some kind sole will release the genuine coin.

Steve

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OK- I am a complete NOOB-(first post) so forgive me if I am asking questions that are already answered elswhere---

 

1) Is there a geocoin FAQ?? If so can ya direct me to it? If not....be prepared...

 

2) What is a geocoin? (are there guidlines as to size, materials, quantities, etc...) For size I visualize a poker chip size--

3) Are they to be removed from the cache? Or left for others to view only? From what I've read in this thread is sounds like they are to be left with the cache-- so then what good are they?? Here is where the letter boxing idea is better--- at least I can put an imprint into my notebook for a 'keepsake'. It's cooler than a paper photo-copied coin!!

4) If they can be removed- are they mine to keep? If not what is the purpose of it? A travel bug- then why not just call it want it is- a travel bug??

5) I LOVE the creativity of the various coins- I have a ton of ideas for my own- however, for me they would be something I leave at the cache as a calling card- so I would be making cheaper clay coins- (am am going to try a simple mold- and pressing sculpy into it- then baking it. It should be a pretty tough coin when I am done--- hopefully

 

6)Maybe some more thought needs to be given to the geocoins purpose- leave them? Take them? What's the intent- travel bug? Trophy? Cache owners ID? Event token? Who knows, but if some standards were written up things like 'general' size, shapes, etc.... Maybe then a 'safe box' could be added to the cache itself- a locked side of the box with a slot where a coin (like my calling card coin idea) could be left for the cache owner only. Thus making the cache more appealing to the owner to attend to more often- they could get their 'reward' and start a collection by who is visiting-- (or course that means the owner would be recieveing multiples of the same coin- but maybe become trade fodder???)

 

Just some quick thoughts/questions I have- gotta cut it off here- back later-

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We started drilling holes and padlocking our traveling coins so they don't go missing. I don't foresee us ever setting a copy loose because when we find em, its a serious disappointment.

 

I understand the drilling thing, could you explain the padlocking thing? Do you have any pictures of a padlocked coin? We haven't released any coins to the wild yet, but we will soon when some of our custom coins begin to arrive in the mail. I've already decided to drill but would be interested in learning any another techniques to keep the coin in circulation as much as possible.

 

As far as proxies go. We don't like them and I'm sorry to those that use them but we don't move them. If we could move/log them without having their icon or even their presence (i.e. count increase in generic icon) on our profile then we would. We made the decision when we started the hobby and began to learn more and more about the hobby that we had no interest in numbers, but we have great interest in knowing our history of coins we've seen and moved in our travels. So we don't discover coins, have no interest in proxies and the only coins/icons in our profile we ever want to see is actual coins we own, TBs and geocoins that were in our actual physical possesion for the purpose of being moved from one cache to another cache or given to us for the purpose of dropping into a cache.

 

I'm sure I didn't come up with this idea first, but one thing I would LOVE Groundspeak to do and I'm convinced would at least alleviate the problem is the ability to drop coins into caches without logging it on the cache page and doesn't show as being in the inventory of the cache. The geocoin log still shows all drops and pickups, but no presence of it ever shows up when simpy viewing geocaches. I realize that we have other problems, muggles, forgetful or lazy geocachers, geocachers the quit after they pick up a coin, but I can at least forgive those folks. :drama: Its the thieves that I'm sure exist that watch caches for the purpose of stealing geocoins that I can't forgive, but I think there are solutions like the above that would help solve this problem significantly. If you can't see the geocoin log page without having the tracking number and you can't get the tracking number without having the coin and if you never know where the geocoin is until you've actually picked it up, then I think we cut back at least on the thieves significantly. Folks that find the geocoin could of course still add the geocoin to their watchlist since they had the tracking number in their possession, so they would know which cache the coin is in and be able to follow its progress if they wish. But the actual geocache page never shows any sign of the geocoin in its inventory.

 

This could be a simple (on/off) Invisible or Anonymous (or whatever geoword you want to use) option when you activate a geocoin or trackable that you could click to make the trackable work in the described fashion. Maybe call it "Geovisible" or "Geonymous". :D

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I have a fairly large collection of coins, and most are unactivated. I just like to look at them, and really have no intention of setting them to travel. The few activated coins I have were either given or purchased and transfered to my account. I have brought my coins to events to allow other people to see them, and have allowed discoveries on the activated coins.

 

I do like to discover coins and TBs in caches. I generally don't trade SWAG, but will always pick up a traveler if there is one. I do enjoy very much finding real coins in caches, but I don't fault the people who choose to keep their coins in a collection and send out a copy. In that case, I treat the copy like I would any other TB or coin. I pick it up, log it, and place it into another cache. Very often, a cache page will list that a TB or coin is there, but the cache actually contains no travelers. I think of it as a bonus when I do find a traveler, especially one that I did not expect to find, because I like to see where they have been and help them on their travels. :drama:

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I'm sure I didn't come up with this idea first, but one thing I would LOVE Groundspeak to do and I'm convinced would at least alleviate the problem is the ability to drop coins into caches without logging it on the cache page and doesn't show as being in the inventory of the cache. The geocoin log still shows all drops and pickups, but no presence of it ever shows up when simpy viewing geocaches. I realize that we have other problems, muggles, forgetful or lazy geocachers, geocachers the quit after they pick up a coin, but I can at least forgive those folks. :drama: Its the thieves that I'm sure exist that watch caches for the purpose of stealing geocoins that I can't forgive, but I think there are solutions like the above that would help solve this problem significantly. If you can't see the geocoin log page without having the tracking number and you can't get the tracking number without having the coin and if you never know where the geocoin is until you've actually picked it up, then I think we cut back at least on the thieves significantly. Folks that find the geocoin could of course still add the geocoin to their watchlist since they had the tracking number in their possession, so they would know which cache the coin is in and be able to follow its progress if they wish. But the actual geocache page never shows any sign of the geocoin in its inventory.

 

This could be a simple (on/off) Invisible or Anonymous (or whatever geoword you want to use) option when you activate a geocoin or trackable that you could click to make the trackable work in the described fashion. Maybe call it "Geovisible" or "Geonymous". :D

 

I wholeheartedly agree with NOT having the coin icons showing up on the cache page. I started a new topic here: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=191808

 

Please make your voices heard to Groundspeak if you agree (or even if you don't - as I think all opinions should be welcome). Thanks!!

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Well speaking as someone who recently retrieved AND MISPLACED a geocoin I can say that I wish it HAD been a copy. I removed it from my cache bag and put it in my pocket in anticipation of placing it one of my nearby caches. Long story short, I got side-tracked that afternoon and I didn't make it.

 

Now I can't find the coin. I have turned the house upside down and thus far I haven't been able to find it. I have contacted the owner and offered to reimburse him. He was extremely gracious and he declined the offer, but I feel like a jerk.

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1) Is there a geocoin FAQ?? If so can ya direct me to it?

Hi Dustin! Welcome to the addiction. :drama:

 

The best FAQ kinda thing I've ever seen on geocoins and TB's was something handed to me at an event. I believe Snoogans was credited as the author. He can correct me if needed. I have no idea where to find this, but it's a really kewl read, and offers tons of tips for coin & TB owners.

 

To answer some of your questions:

Typically, a trackable geocoin is supposed to be moved from cache to cache, by each person who finds it, kinda like a TB. If you are able to move it to another cache, feel free to do so. The coin's owner will appreciate your efforts. If you can't move it in a timely manner, you can either write down the tracking number and log it as "Discovered", or you can leave it in the cache for someone who can move it along. Sometimes, folks will leave unactivated coins as FTF prizes or high end swag. Often, these are labeled as such, but sometimes you gotta do some research.

 

From what you described, the clay coin you are making would be considered a signature item. Many folks leave unique items in caches that they visit as a way to leave their mark. Typically, these are also considered to be trade items, with the unwritten rule being that you trade your own signature item for one that you remove from a cache. Lots of folks collect signature items as a way to show all the different cachers they have interacted with.

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Well speaking as someone who recently retrieved AND MISPLACED a geocoin I can say that I wish it HAD been a copy. I removed it from my cache bag and put it in my pocket in anticipation of placing it one of my nearby caches. Long story short, I got side-tracked that afternoon and I didn't make it.

 

Now I can't find the coin. I have turned the house upside down and thus far I haven't been able to find it. I have contacted the owner and offered to reimburse him. He was extremely gracious and he declined the offer, but I feel like a jerk.

 

i did that too! and a year later i found it and rushed it back out to a cache. talk about feeling dumb.

 

lara

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are you saying that I have to start my topics in another way other than how I feel. If I feel paper coins insult my honest and integrity why can't I say that's how I feel ? We live in the US of A where everybody's feeling count(maybe that's part of the problem),so why can't I say I feel untrusted by paper coin people?

 

I didn't ask for your thoughts or opininions on me or my opinion ! Talk about the topic not me and not my opinion and not wether I'm angry or losing sleep ! C'mon people ! thanks

 

Are you saying that people have to reply to your topics in another way other than how they feel? If they feel you seem angy why can't they say that's how they feel ? We live in the US of A where everybody's feeling count(maybe that's part of the problem),so why can't they say what they feel about angry people?

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Darn, people are starting to use my Geo-PaperCoin™ idea now.... hmm.gif

 

Seriously, i don't think that the idea is a good one IMO, however there is always the option to ignore some things that annoy us in life.......maybe this is one of those things that isn't life-threatening. :P

 

Thank you guys for the best read for some time.... the individual thoughts have shone through rather than a group attack. 2thumbsup.gif

 

mm

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So you see, the opinion on the paper geocoin fiasco is universal ! Well from Illinois to Norway anyway :(

 

This is not even close to being universal and defiantly not for Illinois.

 

As someone who owns a hundred or so coins, most not activated. Some kind of rare. As well as someone who has released copies and will do so in the furture, I am here to tell you that I have received thank you notes from people that chase icons that I used this compromise so they could get a rare icon.

 

I don't hunt icons and, yes, it is disappointing to find a copy. But understood and very acceptable.

 

Different people play this game differently. Some are FTF hounds, some collect icons, some only do series and others will not do one with a terrain rating less than 3.

 

When you find a copy of one of my coins, and you will since you are relatively close geographically, feel free to teach me a lesson by not moving it along or discovering it. I don't understand why people take coins to events for people to find (old school) or discover. Is what they do wrong? For me, yes, however what they choose to do suits them best.

 

You make a point of saying this is insulting to you because I should trust you. Why? I don't know you. I also have no control over a muggle that may find a cache, read the note about what it is and decide to leave it but clear out the cool stuff inside. Or the newbie that does not understand what coins are and think that they are sig type items. There are many justifications for copies. None of us like it, most just accept the compromise.

 

Unlike what some others have said that when you have a similar investment to ours then your point will be more valid, to me it doesn't matter. These were purchased with my money and are mine to do with what I want. If you want, make an investment, set an example and embarrass me into following suit, however do not presume to think that the verbal insults that are becoming you trademark will sway anyones position.

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One more thing: you say you'd rather find a paper coin than a wine cork ? Not me,you know why ? Cuz at least the guy who left the cork didn't lead me to believe there was gonna be a nice bottle of wine attached to it ! Chew on that one for awhile ! thanks

 

I hate paper replicas too, but I don't get upset about it because 99.9% of the time coins that show in a cache aren't there anyway. The few replicas that I have found all had "proxy" or something like that in the name so it was obvious it was not the real deal.

 

However, leading me to believe there is a bottle of fine wine in a cache and finding just the cork, well that will get you removed from My Friends list, lickety split! :( That just ain't right!

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After talking about this with Droo, I had NEVER thought of the idea of putting out a proxy for each of the coins you have already lost. What a brilliant idea!

 

Thank you Kimberly aka TeemSeekandweshallfind, I was completely against proxies until you started this thread. Now I am a believer. Half of the coins I have released have gone missing, possibly more than that, I'm still checking on a couple. This would resurrect my old coins!!! YEA!

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Based on what SeventhSon said on the other section of the forums, I'm going to try something that may or may not help with the theft problem. See what you all think...

 

As someone logs my coin into a cache, I'm going to drop it into an "unknown location" which effectively removes the icon from the cache. I will update the coin's page to let the new finder know what I'm doing and that they can log and drop the coin as they usually would.

 

This would mean that finding my coin in a cache would be a complete surprise. It would also prevent the coin thieves from seeing where the coin is as they peruse the area for caches to raid.

 

Thoughts? Ideas? Concerns?

 

Oh - and I also like the idea of replacing stolen coins with proxies. The only concern I have about that is if you re-release a coin (the proxy) and then the original turns up (I know it's not likely but it IS possible) then what?

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I don't care about paper copies either way. I'll move any travel "item" in a cache if I can help it reach its goal.

 

I don't get disappointed if I go to a cache and find a paper copy. I put in in perspective. I'm out caching! My family and I are healthy and happy! My pets are are even healthy and happy.

 

There are alot of things in life that are more disappointing than a paper copy of a coin in a cache!

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As someone logs my coin into a cache, I'm going to drop it into an "unknown location" which effectively removes the icon from the cache. I will update the coin's page to let the new finder know what I'm doing and that they can log and drop the coin as they usually would.

 

This would mean that finding my coin in a cache would be a complete surprise. It would also prevent the coin thieves from seeing where the coin is as they peruse the area for caches to raid.

 

Thoughts? Ideas? Concerns?

 

Oh - and I also like the idea of replacing stolen coins with proxies. The only concern I have about that is if you re-release a coin (the proxy) and then the original turns up (I know it's not likely but it IS possible) then what?

 

I like the unknown cache idea and that would give a coin or bug a little more protection from those who steal coins and bugs. Sounds like a lot of work and rather confusing - I'm easily confused tho! :)

 

About the paper coins or bugs, whatever! I don't go for the coin or bug only. I go for the thrill of finding. Anything! :rolleyes: First of all tho, will paper really solve anything? I don't think so.

 

I do know people who are so obsessed with their trackable totals that they have made other people 'turned off' with even discovering them. These (coin/bug-hogs as some call them) will gather and trade back-packs full of bugs on a regular basis. They will stalk you for your new numbers! :( Yippers! And if they find a bug they have already had, they won't move it or mention it again (same thing will happen with paper coins/bugs). Not moving or discovering a trackable isn't fair to the trackables owner, IMVHO.

 

It is nice to find those pretty coins and be able to hold them, touch them, share with others.

 

However, having lost several coins and bugs, I can safely say that I will most likely NEVER release another coin into the wild to have some unscrupulous cacher or muggle steal it. I think is is stupid- yes - stupid! to expect someone to release $8-$10 plus coins or bugs only to have them dissapear time after time. I have a wishing well that gives me more joy than tossing those bugs and coins in caches! With gas at $3.50 and rising and coins/bugs at $5, its a spendy little hobby. Alot of people cannot afford that!

 

Right now, I'm not even activating my new ones and I know several others who are not either. That's alot like hoarding ? is that the word ??? But then there is the cache owner who place rules on their caches - trade fair or blah-blah-harm will come to you! Their cache - your bug! Or oh yes - get mad at you and take your bug to a 5 terrain puzzle cache! Paper won't solve that either!

 

So proxy? Sure! Maybe? It's a way to share a coin or bug with less financial pain and risk. Make a copy or picture of it, laminate it nicely - and let it go. I may or may not move a paper/proxy however, those who are about the numbers - well, they can go for it. Those who are not just about numbers can come meet me for coffee in person and admire those coins in real life! At least with paper, the coins/bugs will get shared. B)

N2life

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Thoughts? Ideas? Concerns?

 

Were I to live near or visit a cache with this type of thing liste3d or known to happen, I woul dnever drop a bug or coin there and hope none I own ever were.

 

TB's and coins are made to travel. There are some who do 1 or a combination of the following;

 

1. Check caches with bugs that have set too long and, based on the date of the last movement, go and move them along.

 

2. People who watch the travel bug prisons and move them along.

 

3. All things being equal, some cachers when faced with limited time, will look at caches and those with bugs have the advantage

 

As a bug/coin owner, I want the above to continue as is. Not to mention that you will adversely affect the mileage of the TB's.

 

Those of us that release bugs and coins know that they sometimes go missing. It is the risk. We either accept it or find other acceptable alternatives such as proxies.

 

Not sure why there is such angst (not in the message I am replying to) by the OP toward cache owners that came up with an acceptable, creative alternative. Expend all this anger and ranting on the thieves. Then you'll hear a wonderful chorus as we all chime in.

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Not to mention that you will adversely affect the mileage of the TB's.

 

Huh - I asked this in the other thread and was told that it wouldn't effect the mileage because the coin/bug will still get dropped/picked up from the caches it visits.

 

Maybe I'll have to do a test run to find out. But it would be great if we could get a definitive answer from someone who may have had a missing coin/bug turn up after it was placed into an "unknown location".

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Huh - I asked this in the other thread and was told that it wouldn't effect the mileage because the coin/bug will still get dropped/picked up from the caches it visits.

 

Maybe I'll have to do a test run to find out. But it would be great if we could get a definitive answer from someone who may have had a missing coin/bug turn up after it was placed into an "unknown location".

 

You did notice that the point you address is an aside to the others? It will affect the mileage unless you mark the bug as missing which, to tell you the truth, may trigger even more of a problem; "Neat coin. It's marked as missing, no need to move it along that quickly" weeks go by, coin out of site, out of mine, now is really missing.

 

Pleas, the intention may be honorable, but very flawed when examined closely.

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Based on what SeventhSon said on the other section of the forums, I'm going to try something that may or may not help with the theft problem. See what you all think...

 

As someone logs my coin into a cache, I'm going to drop it into an "unknown location" which effectively removes the icon from the cache. I will update the coin's page to let the new finder know what I'm doing and that they can log and drop the coin as they usually would.

 

This would mean that finding my coin in a cache would be a complete surprise. It would also prevent the coin thieves from seeing where the coin is as they peruse the area for caches to raid.

 

Thoughts? Ideas? Concerns?

 

Oh - and I also like the idea of replacing stolen coins with proxies. The only concern I have about that is if you re-release a coin (the proxy) and then the original turns up (I know it's not likely but it IS possible) then what?

 

It's a neat idea, IMO. But for me I just would not want the trouble of grabbing and dropping coins whenever they get moved. I would be totally confused within a very short space of time.

 

As for proxies, I had a nice coin that travelled half way around the World to Western Australia where it died in a bush fire, I paid for the coin, therefore I paid for the tracking number. I may make a replica of that coin and re-release it and because I know it is dead it is not going to show up again somewhere else, oh and I will be sure to mention on the coins page that it is a copy.

 

Having had several coins go MIA recently I think I might keep my coins and release a proxy, I realise that this will disappoint some, so I am still undecided about it, but I think it's better than going to a cache and not finding anything at all because the coins have all been stolen. As the hobby grows and more people get to know about it there will be more unscrupulous people that will go out and hunt for something they percieve to be 'valuable' and keep it. Though for the life of me I just cannot understand how anyone could take pleasure in keeping something that doesn't belong to them. But hey that's life, and sometimes it isn't fair.

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Huh - I asked this in the other thread and was told that it wouldn't effect the mileage because the coin/bug will still get dropped/picked up from the caches it visits.

 

Maybe I'll have to do a test run to find out. But it would be great if we could get a definitive answer from someone who may have had a missing coin/bug turn up after it was placed into an "unknown location".

 

You did notice that the point you address is an aside to the others? It will affect the mileage unless you mark the bug as missing which, to tell you the truth, may trigger even more of a problem; "Neat coin. It's marked as missing, no need to move it along that quickly" weeks go by, coin out of site, out of mine, now is really missing.

 

Pleas, the intention may be honorable, but very flawed when examined closely.

 

I'm not planning to mark it as missing. I'm planning to mark it as sitting in an "unknown location". The person picking up the coin out of the cache will see the travel tag attached to it with the logging instructions. When they go to the coin page, I will write out the reason why it's listed in an "unknown location" and ask them to treat it as they typically would - they wouldn't need to do anything different other than log the coin and drop it into the next cache.

 

I still don't see how it effects the mileage. I don't see the flaws other than for people who like to see the icon on the cache page so they can search for them. I understand that problem but to me - it's more important not to have my coin stolen than it is to please people who actively search for coins even to the point of revisiting caches they've already logged. Sorry.

Edited by ThePetersTrio
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I agree with Baloo that there are bigger problems in geocaching than proxies. And if someone feels insulted by them it's their personal problem. They must also take insult to my locking my car or my front door at night. Chaining an ammo can to a tree? Is that intended to insult cachers who would never think of stealing a cache? Give me a break. I recently found a coin with so many holes in it to discourage thieves it was ridiculous and others with so many tags explaining the mission and what to do with it that it filled up my cache bag.

 

Until recently I didn't bother to move proxies either. But at the MultiGeoCoinFest event I broke down and moved.... not just 1 but 2! GASP! Sacriledge (sp?)!! But I survived. My enjoyment for seeking caches and icons was not diminished.

 

Now after all this melodrama I have to ask myself what the big deal is. What do I have against proxies? I don't like the disappointment of not finding the real thing. But what entitles me to find the real thing? If I want the real thing why don't I just go out and trade for it, get one for myself? I'm not entitled to someone else's coin? Am I? This reminds me of the Beany Baby stampedes during Christmas times, years ago.

 

Before this thread I never considered that proxies had any value to me aside from the icon. My mind has been changed. With so many coins lost last year I would like to resurrect them as photos of their former selves. Laminated, boxed and R.I.P.ed. I think we discount just how many coins are being stolen, misused and discarded by people who should have a little more care. Flooding caches with "ghosts" of lost and stolen caches might go a long way towards educating people who take our sport and what it takes to maintain it for granted.

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So let me see if I get to the bottom of what the OP really wants to know:

 

Do you like paper copies of coins? Why or why not?

 

(This would have been the preferred way to start this thread instead of talking about people not trusting you, insulting your integrity, etc. It's a simple question and allows for simple responses. Once you post your thoughts and opinions you open them up for responses).

I guess I would have to say yes to first question

Reason , I started to do it also.

People are lest apt to keep them.

To answer the Mod's questions:

1) I don't mind paper copies of coins.

2) I have had way too many coins stolen, therefore will not release anymore "real" coins.

 

Since the OP brought it up, I went to Petra in Jordan hunting a White Jeep Travel Bug only to find none of the six listed geocoins or travel bugs in the well-stocked cache container. Talk about disappointment. I fully sympathize with coin owners who release copies or modify their geocoins to prevent theft or mishandling.

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Now after all this melodrama I have to ask myself what the big deal is. What do I have against proxies? I don't like the disappointment of not finding the real thing. But what entitles me to find the real thing? If I want the real thing why don't I just go out and trade for it, get one for myself? I'm not entitled to someone else's coin? Am I?

Hey, why not go all the way and just sit at the computer and log cache finds after seeing a photo of the cache? <_<

 

Seriously, why do coin proxies even need a photocopy of the coin? Why not just place a piece of paper with the tracking number? You can find images of most coins on the internet. <_<

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From reading the postings in this thread, I know that I may be opening myself to some grief, but I thought I'd post why I release coin proxies, and how I try to make it better than a 'paper copy':

 

- I do release a number of 'real' coins, but have lost quite a number and can't afford to subsidize some coin thieves' collections.

- When I release a proxy, I make sure that the word 'proxy' is part of the coin title.

- I take a high-quality photo of the coin and try to enhance the tracking number to make it easier for those with less-than-perfect eyesight to read.

- I print each proxy on a high-quality printer and place the printouts inside of Air-Tite capsules (used by coin collectors to store their collectible coins) These holders cost me about a buck each, but that's still less than the cost of a coin.

 

Several cachers have told me that my proxies are some of the nicest ones they've found, which I appreciate.

 

Moozer

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Now after all this melodrama I have to ask myself what the big deal is. What do I have against proxies? I don't like the disappointment of not finding the real thing. But what entitles me to find the real thing? If I want the real thing why don't I just go out and trade for it, get one for myself? I'm not entitled to someone else's coin? Am I?

Hey, why not go all the way and just sit at the computer and log cache finds after seeing a photo of the cache? :D

 

Seriously, why do coin proxies even need a photocopy of the coin? Why not just place a piece of paper with the tracking number? You can find images of most coins on the internet. :P

 

Both of these scenarios take place already. Virtual logs of virtual caches, finds logged without actually finding the cache or signing the logsheet ..... discovering coins off lists handed out at events. It happens all the time. If that is how someone else wants to play let'em, they are not hurting anyone but their own sense of self. To each his/her own.

 

Still I don't see how your comment reflects my quoted statement that was questioning the OP's sense of entitlement that they were jipped from finding a coin that wasn't there. :D It happens all the time. Coin gone or the cache is gone or muggle traffic makes retrieval impossible. It happens. So what's the big deal?

 

As for the Mona Lisa example.... are you sure the "real art piece" you saw in the Louvres or the Vatican Museum was not a fake??? Provenance is not that difficult to obtain to certify a fake as the real thing. Heheheheh..... more fakes are hanging in the place of the real stuff that few can tell the difference.

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Now after all this melodrama I have to ask myself what the big deal is. What do I have against proxies? I don't like the disappointment of not finding the real thing. But what entitles me to find the real thing? If I want the real thing why don't I just go out and trade for it, get one for myself? I'm not entitled to someone else's coin? Am I?

Hey, why not go all the way and just sit at the computer and log cache finds after seeing a photo of the cache? :D

 

Seriously, why do coin proxies even need a photocopy of the coin? Why not just place a piece of paper with the tracking number? You can find images of most coins on the internet. :lol:

 

Both of these scenarios take place already. Virtual logs of virtual caches, finds logged without actually finding the cache or signing the logsheet ..... discovering coins off lists handed out at events. It happens all the time. If that is how someone else wants to play let'em, they are not hurting anyone but their own sense of self. To each his/her own.

 

Still I don't see how your comment reflects my quoted statement that was questioning the OP's sense of entitlement that they were jipped from finding a coin that wasn't there. :P It happens all the time. Coin gone or the cache is gone or muggle traffic makes retrieval impossible. It happens. So what's the big deal?

 

Yes, I know both these scenarios take place already, and they are abhorred by mainstream geocachers. My point was that "proxy coins" should likewise be abhorred. Perhaps once "proxy coin thieves" become common, proxies will go away.

 

I don't agree with the the sense of entitlement. Sometimes coins are in the cache, sometimes not. I don't have a problem with that (though it would be nice if it were a perfect world).

 

My point was that if you start accepting "proxy coins", the next logical step is that you will start accepting virtual logs of caches and coins. There is really not much difference: in both cases you are logging something you have not seen or visited.

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This is not a shot at anyone, however I know some will take it that way. I noticed that of the few who either are against or do not understand why proxies are acceptable either own no coins or release very few of their collection if any.

 

That's OK, that is what coins are to you, collectibles. Like I said, I too have many unactivated or unreleased. Mostly because I have not had the time to make the proxies (I put the pictures on wooden or metal :slugs" in coin cases).

 

One of you have several dozen coins listed but not moving. Were you to release 24 them, at only a $5 each investment (a rather conservative number) and only half disappeared, that would mean you gave $60 bucks to enhance someone else's collection. And thats if only 12 went missing. That's a half tank of gas. :lol: Not to mention for those who collect icons, the way THEY play the game, those icons may not be available to them in the area since some of the coins I saw listed were very limited.

 

Some cachers do not have the means to buy a lot of coins. But they enjoy finding and/or collecting icons. I am not going to fly overseas anytime soon to see the Mona Lisa, but I enjoy looking at the pics and reproductions. I am sure that those that have created the coins enjoy their work being compared to Da Vinchi, even though Peter Max would probably be more apt.

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