Trade up, down or not at all?

[Jeepaholic]

I have a question here folks. I go caching with my family as often as I can and the kids (as well as us big kids) LOVE IT!! I often see people kinda dictating what types of items they want traded, or asking that you trade up. Now, I think dictating the items to be traded is going to limit how many folks will even look for your cache and for me that would take the fun out of hiding a cache. As far as the trade up thing, I can understand not wanting a bunch of junk in your cash after a few weeks or so but..............

when my family gets ready to go caching my two older kids (baby is 16 months, my little girl is 4 yrs and my boy is not quite 6) go into thier rooms and pick out one or two small toys they want to leave. When we get to the first cache they trade for something. At the next one they trade or not. We are not the kind of parents that buy our kids every toy they ask for so the toys the do have are kinda special to them. Should I tell my kids "ok kids, let's sit down and figure out the taxable value of the assets you are preparing to bring out into the wilds of Michigan" then when we get to the first cache estimate the value of the items in the box? Should we have depreciation curves?

I'm being rediculous here to make a point. I've been guilty of not "trading up" because I don't think the googley-eye glasses my daughter left yesterday was equal to the toy frog she took, but she did love those glasses and loves that frog now.

It's monday, am I being too sensative??

[+PyrateWench]

Trading toys for toys is fine in my book =) It doesn't have to be the same price value, just a decent swap. I think it stems from lots of complaints i've seen here about people taking really nice items and leaving 25 cents or taking a book and leaving a marble... Sometimes there's really crummy things in caches that sit there for months because no one wants it.. I think to myself "Really, who would use that for trade?" I saw a dental floss pick in one the other day... um... ew? All my swag comes from the Dollar store, but it's fun stuff like pedometers (track how many steps you take) glow stickers, rain ponchos, etc. I think your kids picking toys to share is great.

 

And as I'm sure people will say, eveyone plays this game differently =P It should be about having fun and making it enjoyable for everyone.

[+Googling Hrpty Hrrs]

You should always trade up, because the next little girl that visits the cache deserves to be just as happy with what she finds. And that's a good philosophy to teach the kids, as well.

 

You might have to buy knick knacks just for them to trade in caches. It's a small price to pay for the pleasure you'll bring your kids AND all the other kids to follow.

[+dardevle]

HMMMMM......I think that if a cacher does take something they should definetly leave something. At first I would take something and then leave something. But now I try to always leave my wooden nickel and I take another sig item. I guess I just started to get to much stuff in my little geo-bag. If I am caching with my daughter I make sure I bring some swag with because she really likes getting stuff. So in short I guess the rule of thumb is if you take something, try to leave something as close to equal value as a person can. Or you could just....TNLNSL

 

Garage sales are a great place to find some not so bad swag. I found 2 dozen different belt buckels for $5.00 and used them as swag. I thought they were pretty neat looking so I used them. Garage sale season is just around the corner, I know I'll be the one parking on side streets and running in to find the best deals early!!LOL

Edited April 21, 2008 by dardevle

[+meralgia]

i purchase things from the dollar store as well, but the cost tends to add up. to supplement the purchased swag, we'll be making more "crystal" rocks to leave as swag. They're pretty but basically free.

 

Boil 3 cups of water and add 9 tablespoons of borox. Put the rocks in a shallow dish or pie tin (one that you no longer need) and carefully pour the solution over them, making sure that they cover the tops of the rocks. Let them sit overnight. Drain the solution in the morning (don't worry--it's laundry detergent so should be fine going down the drain) and let them dry. Your kids will love the project, and the swag won't dent your budget.

[+PyrateWench]

i purchase things from the dollar store as well, but the cost tends to add up. to supplement the purchased swag, we'll be making more "crystal" rocks to leave as swag. They're pretty but basically free.

 

Boil 3 cups of water and add 9 tablespoons of borox. Put the rocks in a shallow dish or pie tin (one that you no longer need) and carefully pour the solution over them, making sure that they cover the tops of the rocks. Let them sit overnight. Drain the solution in the morning (don't worry--it's laundry detergent so should be fine going down the drain) and let them dry. Your kids will love the project, and the swag won't dent your budget.

 

Huh, that sounds interesting. Do you have any pictures of the outcome? I'd like to see what the rocks look like, I might try that just for fun!

[+meralgia]

borax crystal experiment

 

You can use pipe cleaners (as the people did in the link above) to make holiday gifts as well... those you should suspend from a wide-mouthed jar. If they're going to be put in caches, however, they would get bent and probably broken. That's why I suggest using rocks--any kind of rock that isn't too smooth would work nicely! My son has TONS of them on display in his room and gives them away for birthday gifts.

 

A box of borax (which probably makes 20 batches) costs only $3.50 (we got one for $2.75 on sale). If you make 10 rocks per batch, you could make 200 pieces of swag. That's less than two cents a piece!

Edited April 21, 2008 by meralgia

[+Totem Clan]

We take the kids to the dollar store. They spend $10 each and they each come away with a Crown Royal bag or two worth of nice swag. If they find something they like, they trade. They're good at judging the value of the trade*. They also know when not to trade. If the junk in the box ain't worth it, they won't trade.

 

 

*notice I didn't say the cash value of the trade.

[+marcjboudreau]

I was always under the impression that you should try to trade up, or at the very least not leave junk.

I've come across lots of old golf balls, rusted quarters, marbles, broken toys. If you're going to take something I think it's important to leave something that someone might actually want.

[+Driver Carries Cache]

Trade up or trade even is a great lesson to learn. I always try to make sure there's something in my caches for kids to enjoy whether it's little finger puppet monsters, or little ink stamp kits from Michael's (craft stores). I don't expect kids to evaluate the cash value of their trades, I just expect a little integrity from all involved. Kids place value on things differently than us adults (who I expect to know better) but generally, if a kid leaves something of value to them personally, I'm fine with that. I do agree that it's a great chance to teach kids a good lesson in sharing.

 

DCC

[+meralgia]

my 8-year-old son is overjoyed to get another golf ball to add to his collection. we found three yesterday (though not all in caches). I think we have 25 now.

[+Civic Doodie]

Generally, I think everyone has been "guilty" of not trading up at one point or another. For the most part, I carry cheap little American flag pins as my swag, and as such, I generally leave and do not take.

 

When my boy is with me though I do have a reserve of toys to trade out for the various trinkets he might want to claim. I do not know if my trade is equal, or if I am trading up, but I try to get close. The guiding principal is that one should not take all the nifty articles others have placed and leave behind the Ubiquitous Ball of String in its place.

[+hydnsek]

Now, I think dictating the items to be traded is going to limit how many folks will even look for your cache....

Trade items have absolutely no influence on whether I look for a cache or not, because I generally don't trade (don't even carry swag most of the time). For me, it's about the location and finding the cache, not what's inside.

 

However, I don't have kids along, and they do love to trade trinkets. I agree with all the other advice here - trade up or even (not in precise dollar value, but in practical terms. Would someone else (child or adult) enjoy having what you leave? Broken McToys aren't very popular, so don't leave junk. And some homemade goodies can work well - those rock crystals look cool.

 

I also think it's neat that some folks have themes for their cache goodies, whether it's Disney stuff or dog toys. But you don't have to adhere to their theme (or trade at all).

Edited April 21, 2008 by hydnsek

[+NeoAddict]

my 8-year-old son is overjoyed to get another golf ball to add to his collection. we found three yesterday (though not all in caches). I think we have 25 now.

 

If your son likes golf balls so much, you guys should take a trip up to Duluth sometime this year. I just placed GC1BB9P a few days ago. Someone who found it logged that they picked up 35 golf balls from the area. The cache is placed in the woods next to a golf course.

 

As far as trade up or trade even, I like to abide by that rule as best I can. Especially when it comes to trackable items like bugs and coins. McToys are fine for kids, but I see too many caches filled with junk that I feel that McToys should be banned. On the other hand, if the cache owner is attentive to caches and cleans them out frequently, the whole cache experience can be pretty good.

 

And ew, I'd never want to find a dental floss pick in a cache.

[+wimseyguy]

I rarely trade for swag as I almost never see anything in a cache I care to possess. I usually carry a few items of various values with me just in case though. I did pick up a pair of tweezers a few years back that have been used dozens of times for log removal.

 

I think Trade Fairly is a better and more attainable mantra than Trade Up.

And if you traded unfairly at one cache, make it up at another one.

[+DrgnTrappr]

Still being a newbie I shop at the dollar stores for swag and I also move swag found at one cache to another. I realy enjoy moving trackable items but i wont take a trackable unless I can leave one in its place, then I can watch the piece and see were it goes. I think the best way to judge swag is to only leave something you would take. My daughter who is my caching buddy is just hitting her teens and is no longer interested in toys but she always tries to bing a few to leave for the younger ones who come behind us. Remember" Its not about the treasure, its about the fun of the hunt. ".

[+dew cache]

I so rarely take anything even though I always leave a plactic sig nickle (a round to it) and mardi gras beads if the cache is big enough, I carry a few trade items with me just in case I find something that I would like. If I see something that would make a good TB I might take it like one time I found a 4" - 5" pogo stick that actually worked and made a TB out of it and people seem to love it when they find it. But when I do take something I always try to leave somethins as good as if not better. But again I don't cache with kids usually.

[+BlueDeuce]

I've been guilty of not "trading up" because I don't think the googley-eye glasses my daughter left yesterday was equal to the toy frog she took, but she did love those glasses and loves that frog now.

It's monday, am I being too sensative??

 

I trade even or up even when caching with kids. And I bring the swag.

 

I don't make my kids bring something from home to trade. When they find something they want, they pick something from the swag bag that's an even or better trade.

 

They get the general concepts of life. Play fair, be nice, etc.

 

Typically my 11 year old doesn't find much worth trading for, so we Took nothing, Left swag. She knows the next person would like to find something nice.

[+hydnsek]

I realy enjoy moving trackable items but i wont take a trackable unless I can leave one in its place

Trading for trackables is a common misconception, esp. for newbies.

 

Trackables (TBs and geocoins) are not trade items - they are owned by other cachers and have goals - and you can take or leave them anytime without trading. (This is stated somewhere in the guidelines, as well as in the pinned FAQ in the TB forum.)

 

TB/coin owners want their trackables to move around as much as possible, and TBs can't do that if they have to wait until a cacher shows up with another TB/coin to trade. I take (or leave) TBs all the time without swapping for them, as do most cachers I know. (In fact, TB hotels that "require" trades or that a TB be in residence at all times are sometimes called "TB prisons.")

Edited April 22, 2008 by hydnsek

[Luckless]

When there aren't muggles around I'll empty out the cache and wipe out the dirt. Then I'll replace the swag items, putting them in baggies if they might get dirty- like cloth items, etc. I carry an envelope into which I'll put all the loose papers, coupons(still good), pictures, calling cards, etc.. The envelope keeps them neat and all together. I'll remove the stones, acorns, broken items or maybe take some home to clean and repair if they need it and use them to restock a degraded cache. I'll add an item or two. The cache should be a little better for the next person to find.

Edited April 21, 2008 by Luckless

[+Lotho]

In my book, if someone has left something in a cache they wish for someone to take it and wont get to bothered if something of exact equal value is traded for it. However, i try to trade fairly.

[+Night Stalker]

It's that trade fairly part that seems to elude some cachers. I remember reading the logs of one cache where I left an Idaho geocoin, and was really pissed to see that the next cacher to the geocoin and left a quarter in its place.

[+Driver Carries Cache]

As far as trade up or trade even, I like to abide by that rule as best I can. Especially when it comes to trackable items like bugs and coins.

 

The trade up or trade even rule doesn't apply to trackables... as they're not trade items. If you can help 'em along, help 'em along

 

DCC

[+gof1]

Geocaching is a good activity in which to teach kids many lessons. The concept of fairness. The responsibility to leave a place as nice or better than you found it. The reality that we can not always have what we want. The sad reality that others don't always share these important values.

 

I'd carry a few bits of nice swag in addition to what the kids have. That way if they misjudge the value you can ensure that the next youngster gets to find a treasure just as nice, or nicer, than your kids found.

[+Renegade Knight]

...Should I tell my kids "ok kids, let's sit down and figure out the taxable value of the assets you are preparing to bring out into the wilds of Michigan" then when we get to the first cache estimate the value of the items in the box? Should we have depreciation curves?

I'm being rediculous here to make a point. I've been guilty of not "trading up" because I don't think the googley-eye glasses my daughter left yesterday was equal to the toy frog she took, but she did love those glasses and loves that frog now.

It's monday, am I being too sensative??

 

Yes you are.

It's far easier to expalin the concept of a fair trade and guide them to being more or less in line with that concept than to pull out your handy John Maynard Keynes, & Adam Smith's book "Economic Theory for Toddlers" and start quoting.

 

The world won't end trading a googley for a frog either.

 

That all said, if I were to trade down it would probably be at a cache demanding that I trade up. Then I'd drop off that item as a bonus in the next cache that didn't demand anything.

[+Em Space]

I'm still quite new, and I really like the idea of trading items. Unfortunatelly, I'm an adult who caches solo. There's rarely much I want in caches. But I want the next person to find something nice, so I buy a lot of cheap toys and useful stuff. I often take nothing and leave one or two items.

 

I suppose I'll eventually get tired of this and start leaving nothing. But for now, I can't go through a drug or department store without picking up a few things for the swag bag. And I'm happy to leave them. Hopefully, I'm improving the cache experience for someone.

 

I think I need to work up a signature item to drop.

[+Renegade Knight]

...I suppose I'll eventually get tired of this and start leaving nothing. But for now, I can't go through a drug or department store without picking up a few things for the swag bag. And I'm happy to leave them. Hopefully, I'm improving the cache experience for someone.

 

I think I need to work up a signature item to drop.

 

I leave foreign coins. On the rare occasion there is one to trade for I will. So far I haven't got tired of it. It's a cheap nice thing to do. I really don't care if someone who has to have that coin and has no trade takes one. I have enough bad karma to burn off to where this simple thing is no big deal.

[thekimballs]

I've taught the kids to trade WAY up if we can. They get a kick out of imagining people being really pleased with what they find.

 

One thing we've started doing is bagging all unpackaged swag. That keeps it nice and clean and hopefully people will want it.

 

Our "cheap" swag is a band-aid kit--it has a packaged wipe, single-use antibiotic cream, and three good fabric bandaids. We managed to do it for about $.25 each by ordering in bulk from Amazon. We also leave Target $1 batteries, Wal-Mart ponchos, biners, nice small toys, and paperback books. Once we run out of books, I'm going to do kennel leads (collar/leash combos that are good to have in your pack even if you don't have a dog, just in case you come across a stray or even just need some webbing to tie something down); dog dot com has them for a good price.

[+gof1]

I've taught the kids to trade WAY up if we can. They get a kick out of imagining people being really pleased with what they find.

 

One thing we've started doing is bagging all unpackaged swag. That keeps it nice and clean and hopefully people will want it.

 

Our "cheap" swag is a band-aid kit--it has a packaged wipe, single-use antibiotic cream, and three good fabric bandaids. We managed to do it for about $.25 each by ordering in bulk from Amazon. We also leave Target $1 batteries, Wal-Mart ponchos, biners, nice small toys, and paperback books. Once we run out of books, I'm going to do kennel leads (collar/leash combos that are good to have in your pack even if you don't have a dog, just in case you come across a stray or even just need some webbing to tie something down); dog dot com has them for a good price.

 

Sounds great. The only point I would differ on (and it's picking nits) is the batteries. They quite often end up dead, rusty, and leaking. At least around here.

[thekimballs]

 

Sounds great. The only point I would differ on (and it's picking nits) is the batteries. They quite often end up dead, rusty, and leaking. At least around here.

 

They're in their package and then in a ziploc--still too damp? I've been liking the idea of batteries because GPSs seem to run out at the least opportune moment, but I won't buy them again if they cause problems.

[+Smokey Bear Collector]

I'm also a solo cacher and rarely see things I like in caches. That said, I believe in the theory of giving what you want. So I started buying 'geoswag' such as found on the various geocache websites....premade caches, geostickers, geopins, TBskins, muggle cards, etc. While 'stupid' items, I always get a kick on the rare occassions I find them. I also started using 'loaded' gift cards as travel bugs with a mission to be loaded when they run down, before moving to another cache (paying it forward). On occassions when I find other gift cards, it makes a long day funner to stop off somewhere for a 'free' drink or snack...or lunch

[+Chapskis1]

In a recent cache I placed I made it almost impossible for people to trade up or even. I placed in it an MP3 player, a leather garmin case, a sealed DVD, and other nice swag. I made this a member's only cache, and just wanted the chance to make someone's day. Like I said, I don't neccessariy expect people to trade up, but hopefully they will leave more than a quarter.

 

Regarding sig item -- that's the way I am going now. I am a currently awaiting my first shipment of wooden nickels.

 

Just my $0.02.

[+DanOCan]

I've been guilty of not "trading up" because I don't think the googley-eye glasses my daughter left yesterday was equal to the toy frog she took, but she did love those glasses and loves that frog now.

 

As you know, kids don't have a concept of "monetary value" the same way as adults do. So, certainly your daughter wouldn't understand the difference in value between the two objects you mention, and likely the next child along won't either so it's a fairly even trade in my eyes.

 

As an example of what not to do I witnessed while caching in a group one day:

 

Father and son open the cache container and discover a unactivated geocoin in the cache. The son immediately grabs the coin and says "I want this." In return he throws a plastic parachute man (worth, what, maybe a quarter or two?) into the cache. Now, again, knowing kids don't understand monetary value is one thing, but the way the son casually tossed in that toy made it very clear this was not some cherished toy of his, it was a throwaway trade item and he knew it. Some gentle prodding from the other members in the group (Are you sure that is a fair trade???) was ignored by both the father and son. That's a bad lesson and a bad trade, no matter what the age. Had the child really loved that parachute man and agonized over parting with it I could understand a bit better, but that was not the case.

 

Personally, I rarely bother with swag anymore.

[Barnie's Band of Gold]

I've been guilty of not "trading up" because I don't think the googley-eye glasses my daughter left yesterday was equal to the toy frog she took, but she did love those glasses and loves that frog now.

 

As you know, kids don't have a concept of "monetary value" the same way as adults do. So, certainly your daughter wouldn't understand the difference in value between the two objects you mention, and likely the next child along won't either so it's a fairly even trade in my eyes.

 

As an example of what not to do I witnessed while caching in a group one day:

 

Father and son open the cache container and discover a unactivated geocoin in the cache. The son immediately grabs the coin and says "I want this." In return he throws a plastic parachute man (worth, what, maybe a quarter or two?) into the cache. Now, again, knowing kids don't understand monetary value is one thing, but the way the son casually tossed in that toy made it very clear this was not some cherished toy of his, it was a throwaway trade item and he knew it. Some gentle prodding from the other members in the group (Are you sure that is a fair trade???) was ignored by both the father and son. That's a bad lesson and a bad trade, no matter what the age. Had the child really loved that parachute man and agonized over parting with it I could understand a bit better, but that was not the case.

 

Personally, I rarely bother with swag anymore.

WELL SAID!

 

Who's kidding who? A kid who "selects" one of his/her own possessions for a possible trade is not bringing a cherished or loved item. They also don't commit to a trade until they see something of "value" to them. They may not have done the financials but they certainly know what they are taking is worth a lot more than what they are discarding.

[+XopherN71]

So now we need to take economics courses to swap swag...

 

Where will it end?

 

I swear I'm going to end up leaving the forums as they are simply SO negative and just ruining what is fun for me.

 

Here's a hint people... go out, have fun, do what you think is right and hopefully the world will still turn at the end of the day.

 

In the story above I say good for the kid! A parachute man will be loved by someone along the way, much more than the wine bottle cork I found once or the rock from the pile 5 feet away. That coin was a nice gesture from someone, no doubt - but certainly not the norm.

[+meralgia]

WARNING: CONTROVERSIAL POST!!! BEEP, BEEP, BEEP

 

The point of trading up (or even) is supposed to keep junk out of the cache, right? As a cache owner, I feel that it's my responsibility to ensure that the cache is stocked with "decent" stuff. Although I love it when folks fill my cache for me, I feel that it is still my "job" to keep it stocked with interesting things. If I don't "feel" like spending the extra money to keep the container(s) stocked, I don't hide it. It's disappointing to go to a regular cache only to find "junk", but honestly I tend to blame the owner more than the visitors.

 

CONTROVERSIAL POST OVER. RESUME YOUR NORMAL LIFE.

Edited April 22, 2008 by meralgia

[+XopherN71]

<-- Looks up meralqia's caches for next trip to cities

 

Along those lines (I think) - The way 'I' play the game or go about the hobby, however you look at it is that it's not up to my kid to replace the swag with equal or greater items. It's up to me. I let her decide if she wants to trade, and if she does I let her pick one thing to swap (I keep new swag with me at all times). If I feel she got something better than what she took I'll throw in a few extra items... if I feel she took something of less value, the 1/1 ratio is fine - I don't ask her to take another item to make up for it. If I'm alone I generally only do travel bugs and coin swaps/drops but if I see a cache with little to no valuable swag I'll drop some in and not think twice about it.

 

Is that how I feel everyone should do it?

 

Of course!

 

Am I going to throw a fit if someone swaps a pet rock for one of our 'quality' items?

 

Not a chance!

Edited April 22, 2008 by XopherN71

[+PyrateWench]

RESUME YOUR NORMAL LIFE.

 

Normal?! Pffft, I take offense! I've been disappointed when I get somewhere and there's junk in a cache, but I'm not really in it for the trade items - it's just really fun. i'll drop in an item or two just to make it better. And I always leave my Pyrate button/sticker sig item and seems people like to collect, hehe.

[+meralgia]

i'm not saying that my containers have the "best" stuff--just that they're well stocked and refreshed often. i buy a lot of the after-Easter and after-Christmas items that could be useful all year long. and i go through my collections and thin them down--this time it was my thimble collection and jewelry collections. I downsize around the house regularly, and some of the items are put in the caches (as long as they're "like new"). Nobody has taken the vinyl flooring instructional video or the winnie the pooh video that I put in there in the Fall. But until I can swap it out for something better, they're still in my large cache on the off chance that someone might find them interesting.

Edited April 22, 2008 by meralgia

[knowschad]

IIt's monday, am I being too sensative??

 

Yes, you are. The point is that the cache should not start out with a bunch of nice, clean, new items, and end up with a bunch of dirty used golf balls, marbles, floppy disks, pine cones, and stuff like that. Ideally, the cache should have swag worth trading even two or three years after it was placed. Unfortunately, that is usually far from the case.

[+Civic Doodie]

CONTROVERSIAL POST OVER. RESUME YOUR NORMAL LIFE.

 

Whew thank goodness that is over! Almost got excited there. *deep breath*

[+meralgia]

As a cache owner, I feel that it's my responsibility to ensure that the cache is stocked with "decent" stuff...It's disappointing to go to a regular cache only to find "junk", but honestly I tend to blame the owner more than the visitors.

warning: cynical and slightly scathing post...

 

My son and I went to a small cache yesterday with a naked log and absolutely NO swag in it whatsoever. Of course, it could have been muggled, but it makes me think that the cache owner was simply too lazy to bother with swag and a baggie for the log. Makes me not want to look up his subsequent caches just in case they're similar to this particular one. I sent a message to the owner via a "found" log that said, "Container was completely empty, so we added a few things." I'm sure my "few things" will be the only things in there.

 

End of this particular cynical post--but don't expect me to keep my cynicism to myself!!

Edited April 24, 2008 by meralgia