+meralgia Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) I asked a cache owner whether or not the cache was still in play because of the multiple DNFs and the forty minutes we spent mucking about looking for it (obviously it was our fault for not noticing the DNFs before we went out). This is the response I got: ""Yeah...I get a lot of complaints lately about my caches. I don't get to check my email often, but so many emails are from geocachers... I've been out of the country for a long time so I haven't any idea how my caches are faring. One appears to have flown the coop, and another has off-kilter coordinates...Here in Nigeria there's only 3 geocaches in the whole country! The point is, I apologize to the people who have wasted time looking for mine. I know from experience how frustrating that can be. But I don't want to give them up for adoption. I've neglected them, but I plan to be a better parent soon. I return in a few weeks to pick up my life there again. I will rush out and visit my sites. Sorry again." My response to them: " I hate to say, but IMHO, it's simply irresponsible to know of those problems and let them go. It's not that I "want" your caches, but it wouldn't be hard to adopt them out to someone local so that problems can fixed and then re-adopt them when you're back. If you don't want my help, that's fine. But at least edit the cache description to let people know that you're not available. Their response: "A bit harsh there! geocaching is a HOBBY. it's not life or death--like what i am doing here in Nigeria. so give me a break. i don't have time to wait for the geocaching website to load with the signal so weak here in the bush. nor do i want to waste time emailing and reading emails from cranky geocachers who had to waste a few extra minutes out in nature looking for my caches. i don't know anyone else who does this hobby or i would ask them to look in on mine. and i have wasted enough time here... " Edited April 18, 2008 by meralgia Quote
+ncfinn Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Can you reply to him/her and politely/kindly offer to help out? I travel and completely understand about bad internet connections. Quote
+meralgia Posted April 18, 2008 Author Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) my first email to them, "do you need someone to adopt your caches? I see you haven't been online since Fall." Edited April 18, 2008 by meralgia Quote
+XopherN71 Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) I've neglected them, but I plan to be a better parent soon. I return in a few weeks to pick up my life there again. I will rush out and visit my sites. Sorry again." They are coming back soon, I would have dropped it and let it go with a 'Great, thank you for your quick response and have a safe trip back!' Edited April 18, 2008 by XopherN71 Quote
+Miragee Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Only the cache owner, or the Reviewer, can Disable a cache if it is known to be missing. If the person cannot log into the Site to Disable the missing cache, or edit the cache page to reflect fact that the coordinates are off, perhaps the local Reviewer could take care of that. It is too bad they didn't take care of the caches by either Disabling or Archiving them before leaving the country . . . Quote
+K T S Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Can you reply to him/her and politely/kindly offer to help out? I travel and completely understand about bad internet connections. I am in the same boat, I have on a couple of occasions helped out with some caches that were placed by someone who does not live in the area. It never hurts to politely ask someone if you can help out. Quote
+meralgia Posted April 18, 2008 Author Posted April 18, 2008 They are coming back soon, I would have dropped it and let it go with a 'Great, thank you for your quick response and have a safe trip back!'I'm sure you're right. Quote
+BlueDeuce Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 I would send an email to your local reviewer to review the caches to see if they think they need to be Disabled or archived. I'm sure the reviewer is in a better position to tell this cacher to start taking care of business or lose the caches. Quote
+WRITE SHOP ROBERT Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) I've neglected them, but I plan to be a better parent soon. I return in a few weeks to pick up my life there again. I will rush out and visit my sites. Sorry again." They are coming back soon, I would have dropped it and let it go with a 'Great, thank you for your quick response and have a safe trip back!' While I can understand your frustration at searching for a neglected and possibly missing Cache( when the owner was aware), I would have taken the first reply and seen it as a good sign, put the Ccahes on my watchlist, and waited to see when the owner got back, then sent them a welcome home note, and returned to look for the Cache.. Always try to remember that when someone says IMHO, that is often percieved as anything but humble. Also keep in mind that one does not need to officially adopt a cache in order to help out with maintaining it. Although that doesn't work on a Cache you can't find. My Brother had a series of Caches(35) where he got all kinds of nasty logs and notes from people that insisted many were missing, while he did neglect the maintenence, when we finally went out on the run to replace the whole series, most of the ones that got bad notes were in fact still in their correct place. It may be that no one can find them, but that doesn't always mean they are missing. Edited April 18, 2008 by WRITE SHOP ROBERT Quote
+WRITE SHOP ROBERT Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 I would send an email to your local reviewer to review the caches to see if they think they need to be Disabled or archived. I'm sure the reviewer is in a better position to tell this cacher to start taking care of business or lose the caches. I don't think I would go that far yet. If they continued to ignore them for another month, I would think about it. Quote
+meralgia Posted April 18, 2008 Author Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) the reviewer is acting on the ones with multiple DNFs, but the others seem to be fairly in play so I doubt the reviewer will do anything about it. I sent an email, "sorry you feel that way. hope you have a safe trip back." I doubt they'll open and/or read it even though I put "have a safe trip back" in the subject line. I'm not going to stew or fester about it, and I won't hold my breath for any kind of reply. It's just too bad that some cache placers are willing to generate trash and waste peoples' time by placing caches they refuse to adopt out and/or are too lazy to maintain. Edited April 18, 2008 by meralgia Quote
+Renegade Knight Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) ...I return in a few weeks to pick up my life there again. I will rush out and visit my sites. Sorry again." My response to them: " I hate to say, but IMHO, it's simply irresponsible to know of those problems and let them go... Real life happens. It trumps caches every time. Owners have two choices when life changes and they can't maintain as they normally would. They can get to it as soon as they reasonably can. That's what this owner has said they will do. Or they can enlist the help of the caching community to do their job for them until they can get back to normal. Both get the job done. The owner said they are coming back and will check on the caches. That's where it should end. If you insist on making it into a federal case, Page 3133 of the guide to being a Freedom Loving American says "Take care of your own, let others take care of theirs". Page 1 of the "Book of Good Neighbors" says. "Lend a hand when it's needed". Edited April 18, 2008 by Renegade Knight Quote
+WRITE SHOP ROBERT Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 the reviewer is acting on the ones with multiple DNFs, but the others seem to be fairly in play so I doubt the reviewer will do anything about it. I sent an email, "sorry you feel that way. hope you have a safe trip back." I doubt they'll open and/or read it even though I put "have a safe trip back" in the subject line. I'm not going to stew or fester about it, and I won't hold my breath for any kind of reply. It's just too bad that some cache placers are willing to generate trash and waste peoples' time by placing caches they refuse to adopt out and/or are too lazy to maintain. Yes, Too Harsh. Quote
+ArcherDragoon Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Hey, Yeah, your replay to the replay you received was a bit harsh. I actually read the thread before and after the edit...I would have read the response and let the cache go...seeing that it looked as if the cacher would be coming back soon and then be able to take care fo the issue... . . . Many times, using "IMHO" does not come across as being ver humble...just something to be careful about... Later, ArcherDragoon Quote
+ArcherDragoon Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 the reviewer is acting on the ones with multiple DNFs, but the others seem to be fairly in play so I doubt the reviewer will do anything about it. I sent an email, "sorry you feel that way. hope you have a safe trip back." I doubt they'll open and/or read it even though I put "have a safe trip back" in the subject line. I'm not going to stew or fester about it, and I won't hold my breath for any kind of reply. It's just too bad that some cache placers are willing to generate trash and waste peoples' time by placing caches they refuse to adopt out and/or are too lazy to maintain. I would say this is a harsh view of things...gotta remember that life sometimes gets in the way of things... Quote
+NeoAddict Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 If I knew I was coming back to the states in a matter of one or two weeks, I wouldn't want to adopt out my caches only to re-adopt them when I return; especially if I didn't have a reliable internet connection to deal with all the adoptions and emails and whatever else is involved. Just because they're stuck in Nigeria with a poor satellite signal internet connection doesn't mean they're lazy. Sure, it would have been nice if they had gotten someone to care for the caches while they were out of the country, but they didn't. Human error. Toss the caches on a watchlist and wait for the owner to come back is all you can do now. Patience grasshopper! Quote
+ArcherDragoon Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 If I knew I was coming back to the states in a matter of one or two weeks, I wouldn't want to adopt out my caches only to re-adopt them when I return; especially if I didn't have a reliable internet connection to deal with all the adoptions and emails and whatever else is involved. Just because they're stuck in Nigeria with a poor satellite signal internet connection doesn't mean they're lazy. Sure, it would have been nice if they had gotten someone to care for the caches while they were out of the country, but they didn't. Human error. Toss the caches on a watchlist and wait for the owner to come back is all you can do now. Patience grasshopper GPS using Hedgehog! Fixed Quote
+meralgia Posted April 18, 2008 Author Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) okay, okay. point taken. thanks guys!! won't happen again! ; ) and, yes, I'll watch the IMHO... I suppose it's said a bit tongue-in-cheek. Edited April 18, 2008 by meralgia Quote
+meralgia Posted April 18, 2008 Author Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) By way of history (to understand my angst), I work in the health care field. My job is to schedule patients for health education (about a specific health concern). About 1/5 of the patients I try to schedule seem to have no interest in modifying their habits to improve and maintain their health. I get frustrated, and perhaps it carries over when it seems that cache owners have no interest in maintaining what they're responsible for. That, and I have limited time (as do we all) and an excited 8 year old that gets disappointed when we come up empty. Edited April 18, 2008 by meralgia Quote
+Rockin Roddy Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 I'll have to chime in with the majority here (IMHO) and say that you could have simply left it at "have a safe trip" after the first email response!! I certainly wouldn't have involved the reviewer, you could have simply put a note on the cache(s) stating owner out of country and returning soon. I know I'd be a bit upset if I was to return home to find my cache(s) archived. For whatever reason this cacher is out of country, I'm sure there was a good reason. Knowing it won't be forever and doubting there would be much trouble with my caches, I MIGHT have left w/o worrying about them, most likely I'd have asked someone to maintain them if needed...but this cacher did mention not knowing anyone else! Saying this cacher is lazy because something in life came up is a bit overboard (harsh), life trumps fun! Quote
+PhxChem Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 But I don't want to give them up for adoption. I've neglected them, but I plan to be a better parent soon. I return in a few weeks to pick up my life there again. I will rush out and visit my sites. Sorry again." Rrrriiiiiiggggghhhhht. Couldn't the owner at least disable the ones that seem to have problems? That seems like the best course of action until they can be replaced or checked on. Yes, it was a little harsh. But the owner should be a little more cognizant about what's going on. If not, disable them until you get back into the game. The whole "life gets in the way" argument seems to be THE excuse for absolution. But it may actually be accurate. Like I said, they should disable the ones that have nothing but a string of DNF when most logs before them had smiley's. Quote
+stites1 Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Sorry, but the cache owner is 100 percent right. It's game, the guys out in the middle of Darkest Africa, and worst that happens to anyone is they have to spend some time out of doors. Quote
+BlueDeuce Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 But I don't want to give them up for adoption. I've neglected them, but I plan to be a better parent soon. I return in a few weeks to pick up my life there again. I will rush out and visit my sites. Sorry again." Rrrriiiiiiggggghhhhht. Couldn't the owner at least disable the ones that seem to have problems? That seems like the best course of action until they can be replaced or checked on. Yes, it was a little harsh. But the owner should be a little more cognizant about what's going on. If not, disable them until you get back into the game. The whole "life gets in the way" argument seems to be THE excuse for absolution. But it may actually be accurate. Like I said, they should disable the ones that have nothing but a string of DNF when most logs before them had smiley's. Exactly, I really don't feel that sad for an absent owner leaving cachers to search in vain. If the reviewer decides that the cache needs to be Disabled or Archived then I have no doubt that reporting it was the right thing to do. I'm going to trust their take on the situation far more than mine alone. So the owner gets upset upon returning home and finding their unmaintained caches were shutdown. Too bad for them. Quote
+dew cache Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Well as a searcher I don't look for a cache that has not been found in a certain time. When I load up GSAK I sort by date last found and delete anything not found since a date I decide usually 6 months. Of course where it is at and the size of it, micros in the woods that have not been found in six months do not get put in my GPS. Sure the hidder should watch and try to keep the cache page updated but if they can't for some reason but they have good intentions you can not be too hard on him. Quote
+PhxChem Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 We actually have a very good reviewer in the area (Roadrunner) who periodically looks for distressed caches that have tons of DNF's (when there was nothing but finds before) and disabled it. He/she leaves a nice note asking to check on the cache. If it stays disabled for months, it then get archived. If you look at a map of our area, we don't have a lot of disabled caches. I once looked at a map from my old hometown (SD, CA).....I couldn't believe the number of disabled caches. Sometimes in our area, we have caches that get muggled, the owner acknowledges it is missing, but forgets to disable it. Usually an SBA with a note saying it should be disabled seems to work, too. Quote
+Lil Devil Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 One thing I fail to understand is why some people think they need to adopt a cache in order to maintain it. I carry spare logbooks, ziplocks, and sometimes even containers and won't hesitate to replace all or part of a cache if needed. I've never asked to adopt any of them. It's just good karma to help out when you can. Quote
+XopherN71 Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 Cache maintenance is almost a requirement around here with the extreme weather variances; snow, ice, heat, humidity, dryness, etc. My 'cache repair kit' is basically a towel, replacement logs, replacement pencils, pencil sharpener and if need be I usually have an extra cache container for the smaller ones. On one outing alone I had to clean and dry 3 caches (out of the 5 found that day). I take the time to sit and check out the surroundings, rest, maybe read a couple log entries if the log book isn't ruined, and even wonder what some people were thinking when they left 'insert odd item here' for swag Quote
+Renegade Knight Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 ...Couldn't the owner at least disable the ones that seem to have problems? That seems like the best course of action until they can be replaced or checked on.... Assuming they had internet access and then email access and then time to check on their cache logs, it would be the best course. Most people do. This guy was in Africa so maybe not? Quote
+Rockin Roddy Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) But I don't want to give them up for adoption. I've neglected them, but I plan to be a better parent soon. I return in a few weeks to pick up my life there again. I will rush out and visit my sites. Sorry again." Rrrriiiiiiggggghhhhht. Couldn't the owner at least disable the ones that seem to have problems? That seems like the best course of action until they can be replaced or checked on. Yes, it was a little harsh. But the owner should be a little more cognizant about what's going on. If not, disable them until you get back into the game. The whole "life gets in the way" argument seems to be THE excuse for absolution. But it may actually be accurate. Like I said, they should disable the ones that have nothing but a string of DNF when most logs before them had smiley's. Exactly, I really don't feel that sad for an absent owner leaving cachers to search in vain. If the reviewer decides that the cache needs to be Disabled or Archived then I have no doubt that reporting it was the right thing to do. I'm going to trust their take on the situation far more than mine alone. So the owner gets upset upon returning home and finding their unmaintained caches were shutdown. Too bad for them. This is all well and good...in a model world. Do you know what reasons the owner has for being gone? Do you know the owner had the time to "tidy things up" before whisking off?? Do you know this person has enough time and ability to get on the internet and check on their caches? Could it be possible this person had a reason to leave in a bit of hurry and forgot to disable (or heaven forbid, life was too dramatic for fun and caching to be thought of)? Is it also possible the area this person is in or even the SITUATION this person is in could be such which makes working on caches a bit problematic? Is it even possible this person has FAR more pressing troubles on his plate than a cache not found being attended to?? Sounds like the person admitted to much of this with the comment about the internet and how his being gone was more pressing (in his opinion) than the caches. Also sounds like the OWNER said they'd return and take care of matters soon (well within time, no need to worry about or get a reviewer involved with such problems). If I had life suddenly drag me out of my happy lifestyle and throw me into something I'd rather not have to deal with, YES, I might be a bit perturbed about coming home to find my caches disbled. MAYBE a bit of leeway COULD be given?? Put a note on the page, watch the cache and act if things don't better in the timeframe outlined! If it REALLY bothers you, do as Lil Devil suggested and replace it for the owner and make life better for everyone concerned! Added to add: no, this isn't directed at the OP... Edited April 18, 2008 by Rockin Roddy Quote
+meralgia Posted April 18, 2008 Author Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) The owner hasn't logged in since the Fall. October, I think it was. and, to be fair, I really don't know if they've had internet access. Seems to me that if you're leaving the country for an extended period of time, you'd tie up loose ends--especially with hobbies that affect other people. I doubt she was abducted. Edited April 18, 2008 by meralgia Quote
+Rockin Roddy Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) The owner hasn't logged in since the Fall. October, I think it was. and, to be fair, I really don't know if they've had internet access. Seems to me that if you're leaving the country for an extended period of time, you'd tie up loose ends--especially with hobbies that affect other people. I doubt she was abducted. I can think of several scenarios which would cause me to have to "pick up" on a moment's notice...and no, caching wouldn't come to mind in MOST of those! Death in family, car accident with prolonged hospital stay, lost or abducted child or loved one...I could go on. In none of those cases, until it was brought to my attention, I'd have NO reason to think of or worry about caches back home. The fact the owner hasn't been active would point to other business...IF I were off and able to cache...I WOULD!!! Especially in an exotic or far off location! This points (to me) to the owner being pretty busy and not thinking about fun or caches back home. Edited April 18, 2008 by Rockin Roddy Quote
+BlueDeuce Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) If it REALLY bothers you, do as Lil Devil suggested and replace it for the owner and make life better for everyone concerned! An unmaintained cache is an unmaintained cache despite a so-called good reason for leaving them that way and a reviewer will Disable/Archive them. This just doesn't happen because I decide it should be so. And yes in a model world I will offer assistance in maintaining a cache when I can. I have even cold-call recruited cachers I have never interacted with to help support a cache when an owner couldn't. I knew one was a tough cache to find so I contacted a previous finder and work it out with them to fix it with materials I provided. So trust me I get what it means to support the community. I am far more practical than sentimental. Cachers should not be subjected to searching for missing or misplaced caches when nothing is being done. Shut the cache down until it can be replaced. This 'gosh there's a good reason for leaving an unfindable cache active' doesn't make any sense. edit: typo Edited April 18, 2008 by BlueDeuce Quote
+Rockin Roddy Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 If it REALLY bothers you, do as Lil Devil suggested and replace it for the owner and make life better for everyone concerned! An unmaintained cache is an unmaintained cache despite a so-called good reason for leaving them that way and a reviewer will Disable/Archive them. This just doesn't happen because I decide it should be so. And yes in a model world I will offer assistance in maintaining a cache when I can. I have even cold-call recruited cachers I have never interacted with to help support a cache when an owner couldn't. I knew one was a tough cache to find so I contacted a previous finder and work it out with them to fix it with materials I provided. So trust me I get what it means to support the community. I am far more practical than sentimental. Cachers should not be subjected to searching for missing or misplaced caches when nothing is being done. Shut the cache down until it can be replaced. This 'gosh there's a good reason for leaving an unfindable cache active' doesn't make any sense. edit: typo You know BD...I agree with you MOST of the time...this isn't one! A cacher wasted his/her time to search for a cache that has multiple DNF's...was the searcher able to tell in advance the cache wasn't found by several before?? YES (unless you simply loaded it a month or two ago and never checked that activity...who's fault is that??)...a cacher is responsible to check these things..would it have made ANY difference (on time lost) had the owner since disabled the cache?? No, the cache would still be in their PDA and GPS...right? In this case, the OP even STATED it was her own fault for not checking the activity first.... This cacher was asked by the OP about their hide, they responded they'd be back around shortly and no, they certainly didn't want to "give up" their cache for that short time! Are you saying you'd then simply report them for answering your question...but not to your liking?? I hope that if you ever have life interrupt YOUR fun, someone like MYSELF would be there watching your back....my opinion and I'm done with this topic...THANKS! Quote
+Rockin Roddy Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 If it REALLY bothers you, do as Lil Devil suggested and replace it for the owner and make life better for everyone concerned! An unmaintained cache is an unmaintained cache despite a so-called good reason for leaving them that way and a reviewer will Disable/Archive them. This just doesn't happen because I decide it should be so. Actually, yes, in this case it WOULD be because YOU decided it should be so. You reported it. Sorry last point! Quote
+BlueDeuce Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) A cacher wasted his/her time to search for a cache that has multiple DNF's...was the searcher able to tell in advance the cache wasn't found by several before?? YES (unless you simply loaded it a month or two ago and never checked that activity...who's fault is that??)...a cacher is responsible to check these things..would it have made ANY difference (on time lost) had the owner since disabled the cache?? No, the cache would still be in their PDA and GPS...right? In this case, the OP even STATED it was her own fault for not checking the activity first.... There is no good reason to leave a know problem cache active when it could be Disabled. And Disabling does help people know not to look for the cache. I guess if you don't get fresh data before setting out then yes, you do run into not being aware that the cache has been disabled. This cacher was asked by the OP about their hide, they responded they'd be back around shortly and no, they certainly didn't want to "give up" their cache for that short time! Are you saying you'd then simply report them for answering your question...but not to your liking?? I hope that if you ever have life interrupt YOUR fun, someone like MYSELF would be there watching your back....my opinion and I'm done with this topic...THANKS! In my experience the archive process is very lengthy, but of course much of it hinges on the length of time the cache has been a problem, not when I submitted my report. I would continue to explain more of the process but you’re done with this topic. I’ll just mention that the reviewer decides to address a cache not me, I just bring caches to their attention that I think should be addressed. Sorry if you think I do this for selfish reasons. You might be surprised how much I do offer people before getting to the point of involving a reviewer. Edit: Actually I should have said 'explain my process' not 'the process' since those decisions are made by gc.com. Edited April 18, 2008 by BlueDeuce Quote
+Rockin Roddy Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 In my experience the archive process is very lengthy, but of course much of it hinges on the length of time the cache has been a problem, not when I submitted my report. I would continue to explain more of the process but you’re done with this topic. I’ll just mention that the reviewer decides to address a cache not me, I just bring caches to their attention that I think should be addressed. Sorry if you think I do this for selfish reasons. You might be surprised how much I do offer people before getting to the point of involving a reviewer. Edit: Actually I should have said 'explain my process' not 'the process' since those decisions are made by gc.com. BD...I wouldn't think anything you do is selfish...maybe not as I'd handle...but not selfish! Please, do explain your process...it's likely fairly accurate and some might learn from your post! Just keep in mind that you are pretty much making a point of mine in the process...which is: the cacher will likely be back before the reviewer does end up taking the action called for, you are asking the reviewer to waste THEIR time worrying about a cache a cacher already said they'd get back to soon! Sure, the reviewer COULD disable the cache, but come on, a note saying what the owner stated would do much the same! Had the answer from the owner been, I'll find the time...whenever, well, yes, by all means do report it...it wasn't the answer though. Sorry for being edgy BD...life has really been "interesting" lately...no excuse, I know! Quote
+BlueDeuce Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 That's cool. Let me look for some past situations as examples. Might be a while, since life is getting the way of posting. (jr is yelling for dinner) Quote
Snarf93 Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 the reviewer is acting on the ones with multiple DNFs, but the others seem to be fairly in play so I doubt the reviewer will do anything about it. I sent an email, "sorry you feel that way. hope you have a safe trip back." I doubt they'll open and/or read it even though I put "have a safe trip back" in the subject line. I'm not going to stew or fester about it, and I won't hold my breath for any kind of reply. It's just too bad that some cache placers are willing to generate trash and waste peoples' time by placing caches they refuse to adopt out and/or are too lazy to maintain. Ya thats a bit harsh when someones in a situation where it takes awhile just to load the internet i wouldnt expect them to try to fix something as insignificant as caches when instead they could be doing things like e-mailing loved ones. and hes not lazy either, just busy, as many people are these days. Quote
+Rockin Roddy Posted April 18, 2008 Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) the reviewer is acting on the ones with multiple DNFs, but the others seem to be fairly in play so I doubt the reviewer will do anything about it. I sent an email, "sorry you feel that way. hope you have a safe trip back." I doubt they'll open and/or read it even though I put "have a safe trip back" in the subject line. I'm not going to stew or fester about it, and I won't hold my breath for any kind of reply. It's just too bad that some cache placers are willing to generate trash and waste peoples' time by placing caches they refuse to adopt out and/or are too lazy to maintain. Ya thats a bit harsh when someones in a situation where it takes awhile just to load the internet i wouldnt expect them to try to fix something as insignificant as caches when instead they could be doing things like e-mailing loved ones. and hes not lazy either, just busy, as many people are these days. oops, never mind...maybe you weren't being as sarcastic as I read into it? Edited April 18, 2008 by Rockin Roddy Quote
+Harry Dolphin Posted April 19, 2008 Posted April 19, 2008 Nope. You did good. Not too harsh. Yes, it's a hobby, but one with responsibilities. "Gone for a long time. Hope to be back soon." Sounds like the Peace Corps. That's two years away. She wasn't abducted. No life threatening issues. She went off for 'a long time'. And she abandoned her caches. In an ideal world, one would follow through with one's responsibilities. (Even for a hobby.) This is, of course, not an ideal world. She could have contacted the reviewer, and left a note "Off to see the world. Temporarily unavailable until my return." Not sure what the reviewer would have thought of 'temporarily unavailable' for two years... She could have archived them until her return. Sounds like inconsideration and selfishness on the part of the cache owner. No. OP cannot adopt the cache, not can she take care of it. She cannot find it. It's probably missing. Neglected and abandoned. Of course, I can think of many caches with similar problems. One was placed by a high school student in 2002. It's been waterlogged on and off since 2003. Many cachers have helped it out. Owner hasn't signed on since 2005, and should be out of college by now. Unmaintained in three to five years. Someone finally slapped a 'needs maintenance' on it, so it's probably not long for this world. Nope. OP is concerned about caches unmaintained for long periods of time. Nothing harsh about that. Quote
+Confucius' Cat Posted April 19, 2008 Posted April 19, 2008 By way of history (to understand my angst), I work in the health care field. My job is to schedule patients for health education (about a specific health concern). About 1/5 of the patients I try to schedule seem to have no interest in modifying their habits to improve and maintain their health. I get frustrated, and perhaps it carries over when it seems that cache owners have no interest in maintaining what they're responsible for. That, and I have limited time (as do we all) and an excited 8 year old that gets disappointed when we come up empty. Knowing from previous messages from you, I know you are involved in diabetes education and my being a new diabetic i can give a little insight into your background frustration (bear with me here mods, i will relate this to the topic eventually). There are many reasons a person resists "education." One of the primary reasons is self-sufficiency. People are (hopefully) taught from an early age to be as self-sufficient as possible. It soon becomes a matter of intense pride and self-esteem to take care of oneself. The along comes a disease and help would certainly be in order, but it is the nature of diabetes to be a "self-help" kind of disease in that the patient does hisher own testing and possibly injections, etc. Thus the "pride" kicks in with "I CAN take care of this by myself and i don't need no stinkin' busy bodies telling me how to do it." (Does that sound perhaps a bit like your cache email response?) Another reason for evading appointments in your business is unique to the health care industry. There are many insurance company led programs that mandate "jumping through hoops" in order to get benefits. (The insurance industry is NOTORIOUS for this kind of crap!) Furthermore they are constantly CHANGING THE RULES. (Does that sound familiar to cachers?) I would suspect that many of your clients would RATHER NOT participate in the programs "voluntarily offered" by the insurance company mandates and they fight back by avoiding the issue for as long as possible. All-in-all, I read this cacher's comments as "leave me alone, I'll get to it when i can you flippant busy body." Just MHO. I agree with the others that the "IMHO" probably comes across as "I am going to teach you something" and the cacher in question doesn't want to be taught. I think we DO take this game too seriously over all. As RK said, "Life trumps geocaching" every time. Quote
+Rockin Roddy Posted April 19, 2008 Posted April 19, 2008 (edited) Nope. You did good. Not too harsh. Yes, it's a hobby, but one with responsibilities. "Gone for a long time. Hope to be back soon." Sounds like the Peace Corps. That's two years away. She wasn't abducted. No life threatening issues. She went off for 'a long time'. And she abandoned her caches. In an ideal world, one would follow through with one's responsibilities. (Even for a hobby.) This is, of course, not an ideal world. She could have contacted the reviewer, and left a note "Off to see the world. Temporarily unavailable until my return." Not sure what the reviewer would have thought of 'temporarily unavailable' for two years... She could have archived them until her return. Sounds like inconsideration and selfishness on the part of the cache owner. No. OP cannot adopt the cache, not can she take care of it. She cannot find it. It's probably missing. Neglected and abandoned. Of course, I can think of many caches with similar problems. One was placed by a high school student in 2002. It's been waterlogged on and off since 2003. Many cachers have helped it out. Owner hasn't signed on since 2005, and should be out of college by now. Unmaintained in three to five years. Someone finally slapped a 'needs maintenance' on it, so it's probably not long for this world. Nope. OP is concerned about caches unmaintained for long periods of time. Nothing harsh about that. You may be right...I'm going on the assumption that the owner was called away unexpectedly to a far off location which might have extremely limited internet connection. If indeed the owner IS away "seeing the world" I'd feel the same way. However, since I don't know this, I might actually ASK the owner this very thing before just jumping to conclusions...and then act accordingly. You know something we don't Harry? I have been to places where logging onto the internet alone took forever! I've also been to places where the electricity went out on a regular basis...and was considered "normal"...so I can see the problem with someone being called upon suddenly...you know, like a family emergency or something. Upon re-reading the OP, maybe this isn't quite the emergency situation... Edited April 19, 2008 by Rockin Roddy Quote
+meralgia Posted April 19, 2008 Author Posted April 19, 2008 (edited) Out of all of the back and forth, I can relate most to you, Harry Dolphin. And Confucius, yes, the hider probably did see me as a "flippant busy body". Thanks all for your comments. Yes, it is true that I should have looked at the past logs. At the same time, if the cache were to have been archived long ago, it wouldn't have shown up in my GPS. If it's not in my GPS, I don't go there; but since it was, I did. (Probably incorrect) lessons learned: 1) be sure to check logs before going into the field. 2) when, after three dnfs, post a "needs archived". After all, who else will? another "flippant busy body"? 3) don't bother to contact original hider if they haven't been online for months on end. They probably don't care. 4) don't use "IMHO". Use "IMO" instead! tee hee. Whom amongst us are truly humble anyway? Please don't take this synopsis as a "please don't discuss the topic further". If it's helpful to discuss, please do. I'll read it!! ; ) Edited April 19, 2008 by meralgia Quote
+The Jester Posted April 19, 2008 Posted April 19, 2008 Out of all of the back and forth, I can relate most to you, Harry Dolphin. And Confucius, yes, the hider probably did see me as a "flippant busy body". Thanks all for your comments. Yes, it is true that I should have looked at the past logs. At the same time, if the cache were to have been archived long ago, it wouldn't have shown up in my GPS. If it's not in my GPS, I don't go there; but since it was, I did. (Probably incorrect) lessons learned: 1) be sure to check logs before going into the field. 2) when, after three dnfs, post a "needs archived". After all, who else will? another "flippant busy body"? 3) don't bother to contact original hider if they haven't been online for months on end. They probably don't care. 4) don't use "IMHO". Use "IMO" instead! tee hee. Whom amongst us are truly humble anyway? Please don't take this synopsis as a "please don't discuss the topic further". If it's helpful to discuss, please do. I'll read it!! ; ) 1. Good idea. 2. I dislike any "after xx DNFs post a SBA" mentality. It really depends on the situation. A hard cache may get several DNFs and everything is just fine with the cache. Or a group came thru and didn't find it. 3. Don't know where that came from. The owner is out of the area and will take care of things when they return. How does this equal "don't care". 4. If there's one thing I take pride in, it my humility! Quote
+weathernowcast Posted April 19, 2008 Posted April 19, 2008 One thing I fail to understand is why some people think they need to adopt a cache in order to maintain it. I carry spare logbooks, ziplocks, and sometimes even containers and won't hesitate to replace all or part of a cache if needed. I've never asked to adopt any of them. It's just good karma to help out when you can. This is a great practice that the best geocachers do. I personally, do not do it enough. Cheers to cleaning up the spill yourself and not letting the next person step in it! Quote
+Confucius' Cat Posted April 19, 2008 Posted April 19, 2008 Out of all of the back and forth, I can relate most to you, Harry Dolphin. And Confucius, yes, the hider probably did see me as a "flippant busy body". Thanks all for your comments. Yes, it is true that I should have looked at the past logs. At the same time, if the cache were to have been archived long ago, it wouldn't have shown up in my GPS. If it's not in my GPS, I don't go there; but since it was, I did. (Probably incorrect) lessons learned: 1) be sure to check logs before going into the field. 2) when, after three dnfs, post a "needs archived". After all, who else will? another "flippant busy body"? 3) don't bother to contact original hider if they haven't been online for months on end. They probably don't care. 4) don't use "IMHO". Use "IMO" instead! tee hee. Whom amongst us are truly humble anyway? Please don't take this synopsis as a "please don't discuss the topic further". If it's helpful to discuss, please do. I'll read it!! ; ) 3) There is a cacher in my area that went away for several years, abandoned all their caches, and was apparently unreachable and has returned and is active again. So I guess it is a hard call to make to say they "don't care"- could be any number of reasons... general: What you have encountered is pretty much what led me to stop logging online and stop posting notes which i genuinely thought were helpful to the community. I think the main issue in pointing out a problem to someone is whether one is asked or invited to comment (feedback wanted) or if one comments when not invited to do so (busy body). In logging a cache problem, I cannot see how it can be interpreted as "busy body." But I think a lot of cachers don't seem to see it that way. I perceive the publication of a cache page on a public site, offered to the entire caching community, with software designed for the posting of comments and logs, as being prima-facie evidence of a PUBLIC invitation to post appropriate comments. But apparently some cachers do not see it this way and their cache is their "baby" and you better not make any comments other than "what a cute baby!" I am slowly getting past my hurts and beginning to CAREFULLY log online again, but because of the responses of cachers to their perceived "babies" being attacked by "busy bodies," I think a lot has been lost. I no longer feel free to express myself in a log for fear of accidentally calling somebody's baby "fat." I still will not log a needs maintenance" or SBA unless there are extraordinary circumstances. (Personal note to Meralgia: Please don't misinterpret my posts. I do not consider you a "busy body." I DID (and still do) appreciate your comments- both publicly and privately- on diabetes. It was invited by the thread, wholly appropriate and your comments were very helpful. Thank You.) Quote
+mtn-man Posted April 19, 2008 Posted April 19, 2008 The owner hasn't logged in since the Fall. October, I think it was. and, to be fair, I really don't know if they've had internet access. Seems to me that if you're leaving the country for an extended period of time, you'd tie up loose ends--especially with hobbies that affect other people. I doubt she was abducted. In cases like this, you have to wonder what takes someone halfway around the world all of the sudden. They mention the "life or death" issues in Nigeria. What if their parents got suddenly sick or something like that? My geocaches would be the last thing I would think about before leaving. If you want to make a friend out of this in the end, see if there is a cache or two of theirs you can help out in the manner that Lil Devil suggests. You don't have to adopt a cache to help out. It sounds like you want to help. You don't have to have ownership to do that. It will show this person that the community can help out and if they are dealing with a very stressful personal situation, some help from outsiders will be most reassuring. Food for thought. Quote
+meralgia Posted April 19, 2008 Author Posted April 19, 2008 (edited) If you want to make a friend out of this in the end, see if there is a cache or two of theirs you can help out in the manner that Lil Devil suggests.I have helped out in the past with many-a-cache, but I have not felt comfortable completely replacing the container. I feel like that would be stepping on toes more than posting an SBA, but I don't know why. You don't have to adopt a cache to help out.On one cache, the coords are over 100' "off". I suppose the best one can do would be to post a note with the correct coords since I can't edit the page. Edited April 20, 2008 by meralgia Quote
+mtn-man Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 That's a good compromise -- posting better coordinates. If you email the local reviewer they might change them. Usually we can look at other logs and see if that change makes sense. I've had that happen several times. Quote
+Confucius' Cat Posted April 20, 2008 Posted April 20, 2008 I think meralgia is right that completely replacing the cache is "dangerous" in the cache hider/seeker relationship. It would be stepping on toes if the cache is really not gone but simply could not be found. No one appreciates someone hiding a new cache just becasue they could not find one. Even updating the coordinates, while a good temporary fix, would not be entirely appropriate because it assumes that the cache is presently where the owner originally put it. The fact that the coordinates are off could be the result of "cache drift." i am attempting to get out to one of mine that tends to "drift" and see if I can actually FIND it so i can replace the log and restock it pursuant to a recent NM log. It has happened several times with this particular cache. If someone were to replace it for me and update the coords, i would not be upset, but i would want them to just take over the listing. It is somewhat embarrassing to not be able to find your OWN cache when everybody else is finding it OK. Quote
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