More Hides then Finds

[+nerdling]

What does everybody think about cachers that have more hides then finds. Is it normal? To me it seems like they haven't quite gotten down what a good hide is yet and are just taking up spots that for the most part aren't a good spot anyways or can have a more clever hide. Take today for example. I went and found a cache that was put out lastnight. Number one you have to walk within 5 feet of a homeless camp to get to the trail, number two you have to hike through a virtual forest of stinging nettle(without any kind of warning in the description) Number 3 there is a huge no motor vehicles sign with a no trespassing sign right below it. And Finally the terrain rating is only a 2 when it should be a 3 or a 3.5. Now to my point do I mention this to the cache owner or wait and see what other finders say?

[+ReadyOrNot]

I've seen some first time hides that were spectacular and some that were not. I've seen hiders that have thousands of finds and they place a horrible hide. I've seen a newbie with no finds hide an absolutely wonderful cache.

 

I don't think there is any rhyme or reason to it. Some people have a knack for it and some don't.

[+Zolgar]

Okay. Your point on "more hides than finds" is .. irrelevant.

 

Proximity to a homeless camp, poor taste.. But not against the rules.

 

Lots of nettles, .. *shrug* Warning WOULD be nice.

 

"wrong" terrain rating. run in to that a lot really, one persons 3 may be someone else's 2.

 

However, you SHOULD contact them and ask them about the 'no trespassing' sign. If they did not receive proper permission from the land owner (or don't own the land them self) then, the cache needs to be removed, but for ONLY that reason.

[+StarBrand]

The trespassing issue is a serious one and you should try to clear that up with the owner.

 

Otherwise....... just keep in mind that you do not HAVE TO go look for each and every new hide that pops up.

[+WookieTravs]

Maybe you could very kindly put together an email (not a log) to contact the cache owner with some of your observations.

[+Renegade Knight]

What does everybody think about cachers that have more hides then finds. Is it normal? To me it seems like they haven't quite gotten down what a good hide is yet and are just taking up spots that for the most part aren't a good spot anyways or can have a more clever hide. Take today for example. I went and found a cache that was put out lastnight. Number one you have to walk within 5 feet of a homeless camp to get to the trail, number two you have to hike through a virtual forest of stinging nettle(without any kind of warning in the description) Number 3 there is a huge no motor vehicles sign with a no trespassing sign right below it. And Finally the terrain rating is only a 2 when it should be a 3 or a 3.5. Now to my point do I mention this to the cache owner or wait and see what other finders say?

 

Homeless camp. Great. They exist I like finding them.

Stinging Nettle. Good stuff. You can make tea out of it. It's a natural hazard. No need for a special warning.

3 or 3.5 is a SWAG anyway, I may or may not agree with your assessment. There has been talk about letting finders put in their own rating so they average out over time.

No Tresspassing: We have a hillside that's private land and posted. Guess what. It applies to motorized vehicles only. Your sign sounds similar hard to say.

More hide than finds. Cool that means the guy is learning about hiding since finding doesn't teach you about hiding. Some like to hide. That's ok. It's a big workd.

 

You may wish to ask about the no trespassing sign and clarify that. Everthing else looks good.

Edited April 17, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+Totem Clan]

I understand your concerns but as mentioned above I've seen the same thing done by folks with find counts in the thousands. I don't think the hide to find ratio has that much to do with it.

The first thing you should do is "lead by example." Make sure you are careful with your hides. Next if it's a local cacher, and I assume it is, point out some of these things to them. Do it nicely by email or face to face. Don't drag out into the public eye. If that helps, great. If not, there isn't anything you can do but keep on caching and having fun.

[+Batona]

Is it normal?

No, it is not normal.

 

To me it seems like they haven't quite gotten down what a good hide is yet and are just taking up spots that for the most part aren't a good spot anyways or can have a more clever hide.

That is some judgment! I am not against making judgments, but I certainly do not hold the disdain for those who have more hides than finds that you have shared.

 

From what little you shared, it sounds like you found a cache you did not care for. Why sweep everyone who has more hides than finds into judgment because of one cache you did not care for?

[fishdirt]

Me and a friend planted two test run caches after we found 40 caches. It gave us an idea of what was out there (boy did it, all varied from each other).

 

I most definitly use the terrain rating questionare Groundspeak has. I got a wee bit tired of going to 1s and finding a ton of thorns way off a path. If anything I had to adjust one to be a bit more difficult.

[+J-Way]

Some people create separate accounts for hides vs. finds.

[+briansnat]

What does everybody think about cachers that have more hides then finds. Is it normal?

 

It's unusual, but fine in my eyes. Some people like to hide, some like to find and some like to do both. If someone wants to do nothing but hide I think that's great.

 

To me it seems like they haven't quite gotten down what a good hide is yet...

 

I've found caches hidden by people with hundreds of finds who haven't quite gotten down what a good hide is yet.

[+Thrak]

I have a friend who geocached for a short time. He was horrible at finding caches. However, his hides were great. They were micros that were really evil. The good thing about them is that the coordinates were always exact which is fortunate because that's the only way you could possibly find the darn things. Lots of folks gripe about lame micros - and I've done my share of it as well - but nobody griped about his "Have Fun" hides. When you found one you felt you had accomplished something.

[+Harry Dolphin]

As Brian said: Some people prefer to hide caches than find them. If they're good hides, then that's great!

We have a local who loves wandering the woods looking for great places to hide caches. About 350 finds and 125 hides. And we always look forward to hunting his caches!!

[+squatch]

We've got a cacher like that near here.. She hides stuff behind dumpsters, etc. The old tupperware she hides is full of crap on day one. I think she's put out near a thousand GeoTrashes. It has ruined the sport for me, as now my "nearest" list is full of trash, and the mailers just announce more. I'm afraid to introduce newbies lest they find one of hers and think I'm an idiot for digging behind dumpsters for "treasure". I enjoyed stashes that were at a special location, yielding SOME sort of a reward. I think this lady gets her jollies trekking people around for absolutely no reward. It is a shame, really.

[+Dread_Pirate_Bruce]

Getting the hang of what makes a good hide may necessitate having found some good hides first. And, I rarely see hides by someone with very few finds. However, a lack of finds does not preclude a great hide. If someone wants to go to the trouble of figuring out and placing a great hide, that's well and good and greatly appreciated. It is like giving without taking.

[+Ed56]

I don't have huge numbers of either finds or hides. But to me creating a good hide is a learning process and you get better at picking locations and creating camouflage with experience. Some of my early hides were pretty simple but people seemed to enjoy them. A few of my multi-stage caches got very nice log write-ups so at least I made a few people happy and that's the whole point of putting in the time and effort of doing them. If you're finding a lot of caches that you consider to be poor quality maybe you could gently suggest to the owner via an email how they might be improved (as someone has suggested above).

[+new_dharma]

Most geocachers in Minnesota know KB (aka King Boreas) and his hide count is higher than his find count.

[+Huntcliff]

If you access the cache a different way from what the cache page suggests, which it appears you did (according to a note fromn the cache ownerafter your log) , your points about terrain rating and stinging nettles are probably moot.

[+CM-14]

What does everybody think about cachers that have more hides then finds. Is it normal? To me it seems like they haven't quite gotten down what a good hide is yet and are just taking up spots that for the most part aren't a good spot anyways or can have a more clever hide. Take today for example. I went and found a cache that was put out lastnight. Number one you have to walk within 5 feet of a homeless camp to get to the trail, number two you have to hike through a virtual forest of stinging nettle(without any kind of warning in the description) Number 3 there is a huge no motor vehicles sign with a no trespassing sign right below it. And Finally the terrain rating is only a 2 when it should be a 3 or a 3.5. Now to my point do I mention this to the cache owner or wait and see what other finders say?

 

Some people enjoy hiding more than finding. If someone didn't hide one first, then geocaching would not exist. Also, you can turn back on any cache hunt that you are not comfortable with.

[Cache Whisperer]

There is also the possibility that the hider is using an alternate identity. They may very well be an experienced cacher. You cannot always determine that someone is a n00b based on their profile alone.

 

Just because someones only made 2 or 3 posts under their alt doesn't mean they don't have a long history on their primary acct.

[+PhxChem]

To me it seems like they haven't quite gotten down what a good hide is yet and are just taking up spots that for the most part aren't a good spot anyways or can have a more clever hide.

 

Taking spots that aren't good anyway? What does that MEAN?

 

Unfortunately, reviewers don't get to judge whether an hide is clever. And you don't get to replace a hide when it is not up to your standards.

 

Like others have said, lead by example. Hide the hides you like. For all you know, these folks you're talking about are doing the same...

[+Gadgetman!]

To me it seems like they haven't quite gotten down what a good hide is yet and are just taking up spots that for the most part aren't a good spot anyways or can have a more clever hide.

 

Taking spots that aren't good anyway? What does that MEAN?

 

One problem with 'throwing caches around' is that there's a minimum distance between caches.

(about 150meters?)

So if someone places one behind the dumpster , no one can hide one next to that statue/old bridge/something else interesting nearby...

 

And even IF the distance is OK, it may be difficult to et a new cache approved if there's a whole lot of them nearby.

[+Mother Wolf]

I dont think how many caches a person finds should be used as a measuring stick on their hides. Ive seen seasoned cachers put out crapy caches in icky places & some new cachers put out great caches.

 

If a person wants to place a cache & it meets the rules every hunter has 2 options: 1) look for it 2) dont look for it. If you look for it & it turns out to not be up to YOUR ideals then jsut go about your hunt. I'm sure each of us has a cache or maybe even several that someone else didnt feel was up to par for 1 reason or another while another cacher may have thought it was ok or great. To each their own. Thats part of the game. If you think a place needs a cache but didnt place 1 there then it really isnt fair to dis the person that did put 1 there regardless of the quality of the cache.

 

Just my own thoughts. MW

[AZcachemeister]

I must agree with the previous posts...find count has little or no correlation with hide quality.

 

At least they are trying, sometimes it takes a few mistakes before you get it right. Sometimes cachers feel there is some kind of pressure to contribute, when indeed there should be none!

 

If I were you, I'd use this as an opportunity for a little collaboration/mentoring.

Since this poor sot has fouled up his/her hide so wretchedly, you should offer to go out with them and give them the benefit of your vast hiding experience and skill!

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

What does everybody think about cachers that have more hides then finds. Is it normal? To me it seems like they haven't quite gotten down what a good hide is yet and are just taking up spots that for the most part aren't a good spot anyways or can have a more clever hide. Take today for example. I went and found a cache that was put out lastnight. Number one you have to walk within 5 feet of a homeless camp to get to the trail, number two you have to hike through a virtual forest of stinging nettle(without any kind of warning in the description) Number 3 there is a huge no motor vehicles sign with a no trespassing sign right below it. And Finally the terrain rating is only a 2 when it should be a 3 or a 3.5. Now to my point do I mention this to the cache owner or wait and see what other finders say?

 

Homeless camp. Great. They exist I like finding them.

Stinging Nettle. Good stuff. You can make tea out of it. It's a natural hazard. No need for a special warning.

3 or 3.5 is a SWAG anyway, I may or may not agree with your assessment. There has been talk about letting finders put in their own rating so they average out over time.

No Tresspassing: We have a hillside that's private land and posted. Guess what. It applies to motorized vehicles only. Your sign sounds similar hard to say.

More hide than finds. Cool that means the guy is learning about hiding since finding doesn't teach you about hiding. Some like to hide. That's ok. It's a big workd.

 

You may wish to ask about the no trespassing sign and clarify that. Everthing else looks good.

Very well put! I agree 98%, with the exception that I would prefer that the Terrain rating be higher and that the hider mention the existence of the homeless encampment on the cache listing page. And, to repeat a great point that earlier respondents have made:

Not only is the only possible salient issue the presence of the No Trespassing sign, but none of this has anything to do with how many caches the hider has hidden or has not hidden. In fact, to draw an analogy, the OP seems to have confused apples and Volkswagens and helicopters in their post, when in fact, apples and Volkswagens and helicopters are very different critters, and one does not cause the other; there is no causation and no correlation between these sets/classes.

[+TotemLake]

It could very well be the hider has many finds. He just hasn't logged them.

 

It could also be a sock puppet of somebody else. An alter ego if you will providing a different kind of hide.

[+Laserman]

Every time I see this topic come up, the same thought comes to mind. There was this guy named Dave, he had 1 hide and no finds. If he had waited for a few finds before hiding, we all might be watching re-runs of big brother rather than be out geocaching.

 

Granted we have all learned a lot since then and the sport has evolved quite a bit. I just accept the fact that some people like to hide rather than find. Hopefully with some positive guidence the cacher the OP calls into question will learn and start hiding quality caches.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Laserman