Why is the planting process so difficult?

[A son of liberty]

I've been a letterboxer for a while now and I'm starting to get into geocaching. In letterboxing we just use the honor system and let people plant boxes whereever they can. Since that's what I'm used to I was kinda surprised to see the process that's in place for new caches. I was wondering why it's so "strict". I'm used to most of the requirements (although I do have a burried letterbox) so the most difficult requirement is that a volunteer check the cache out before it can be listed....how long can that take?

 

A son of liberty

[+Kiwi Nomad]

How long can that take?

 

Well that depends on

how many volunters there are for you area

how many caches are being placed and need reviewing

how much time your voluntary has to review those caches

how much information you provide when you place a cache (does the reviewer have all the information they need)

oh also is it the weekend or a public holiday the reviewer might be out caching themselves or even spending time with family

[+trailpuppy]

I've been a letterboxer for a while now and I'm starting to get into geocaching. In letterboxing we just use the honor system and let people plant boxes whereever they can. Since that's what I'm used to I was kinda surprised to see the process that's in place for new caches. I was wondering why it's so "strict". I'm used to most of the requirements (although I do have a burried letterbox) so the most difficult requirement is that a volunteer check the cache out before it can be listed....how long can that take?

 

A son of liberty

 

The Reviewers don't physically check out your hide if that's what you mean (couldn't tell by your post).

Anyway, Kiwi Nomad gave some excellent info. I'd like to add that it also can depend on the type of hide: Puzzle caches, Multi's, and especially EarthCaches take slightly longer to get published than Traditional caches because there's more info to review. It also depends if the hide has potential issues (hidden near active RR tracks, at a school, on a major commuter bridge, private property, etc).

Edited April 17, 2008 by trailpuppy

[+Renegade Knight]

... the most difficult requirement is that a volunteer check the cache out before it can be listed....how long can that take?...

 

When I listed my first cache I thought that a volunteer would go check the cache in person. It appears that you are thinking the same way.

 

What they do is check the cache listing to make sure the cache meets guidelines. They will also check the location on a map to check it against parks that have rules, make sure it's not on the RR etc. There is a bit of the honor system in place in that they have to trust that the listing is accurate and that you have followed the guidlines.

 

I've seen between 5min and 7 days for a cache to be approved for listing.

Edited April 17, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[vtmtnman]

I was wondering why it's so "strict".

A son of liberty

It's strict because Geocaching would probably last about a year without them.Think about it.YOU'RE not going to be stupid aboutdoing things.That doesn't mean the next guy won't.

[+Isonzo Karst]

The expectation is that a reviewer will look at your cache page (not the physical placement) within 72 hours.

 

If you've actually read and understood the listing guidelines and have some useful information in your "notes to reviewer" you cache will probably be published immediately upon that first read through.

[+Rockin Roddy]

I've had caches reviewed in 10 minutes time and I had some which took considerably longer...there are many variables.

 

Just be sure to follow any instructions the reviewer might give you should your cache not be approved on the first shot!! And be sure to read the guidelines!!!

[Keystone]

In my area, I publish the majority of cache listings upon the first review, and within hours to a day of submission. Most reviewers are just as fast, or even faster. You don't hear much about that in this Forum. The process is made "difficult" when the owner hasn't followed the listing guidelines. Then, I need to leave a note explaining that caches can't be buried, or whatever the issue is. Again, most of those situations are resolved, usually within a day to a week. You don't hear much about that in this Forum.

[+nekom]

One thing to remember is that the review process isn't a one way street. It's not a one time "yes or no" decision. I had a cache once that had an issue, the reviewer informed me of the issue, I remedied the situation and the cache was quickly published. I suspect that many of the guidelines are there to keep everybody (cachers and Groundspeak) out of legal trouble. For instance, I don't have the link handy, but there was a famous incident where somebody was arrested for trespassing on railroad property and got in a whole heap of trouble.

[+briansnat]

I've been a letterboxer for a while now and I'm starting to get into geocaching. In letterboxing we just use the honor system and let people plant boxes whereever they can. Since that's what I'm used to I was kinda surprised to see the process that's in place for new caches. I was wondering why it's so "strict". I'm used to most of the requirements (although I do have a burried letterbox) so the most difficult requirement is that a volunteer check the cache out before it can be listed....how long can that take?

 

A son of liberty

 

The process isn't particularly difficult or strict. I've placed over 230 geocaches and have only had 1 questioned by the reviewer and it was published when I answered the question to his satisfaction.

 

There are common sense guidelines that have been implemented over the years, usually in response to specific issues that have come up. No caches near schools, RR tracks, transit hubs, government buildings, parks where they are not allowed, etc... are no brainers. Guidelines like these are meant to ensure the long term viability of the sport.

 

Though geocaching and letterboxing are similar in many ways, geocaching is far more popular and much more visible. Land managers and property owners can just go to the online cache map to see how many caches are on their land and where they are. They can't do that with letterboxing. In most cases they would have to follow clues to figure out where the letterbox is, and whether it even is on their land. That takes a lot more manpower and time than just doing a 30 second Internet search.

 

Because we're more visible we need to more careful where we place our caches. When you're under the radar like letterboxing, you can get away with a lot more.

[+ODragon]

In letterboxing we just use the honor system and let people plant boxes whereever they can.

 

I think this is one of the issues that causes problems. The where ever you want clause is causing lots of issues. Many areas have rules and letterboxers (and geocachers for that matter) often don't know about them. Here at geocaching, these issues are checked for but at most of the letterboxing sites, they are not. This checking is what takes time.

 

You should let your letterboxing friends know that the 'place anywhere' mentality is causing problems for both sides of the fence.

 

Examples: Locally, we have a park system that requires a permit for geocaching and letterboxing. There are at least a dozen geocaches there with permission (most didn't know they needed it in this park system but the reviewer let them know). My park contact says he pulls letterboxes weekly as they don't have permission.

 

Another time geocachers were getting blamed for putting caches in a park without permission. It turned out they were letterboxes and not geocaches however, trying to get them to see it as two different entities was a problem.

 

Don't take my post as anti-letterbox, I'm not. I just don't want to see anyone ruining their fun for anyone else!

[+Happy Humphrey]

My park contact says he pulls letterboxes weekly as they don't have permission.

As the OP seems to have had adequate response to his query, can I go off slightly at a tangent...I guess that there's a letterbox listing site (although I've never seen it). We all know that there are alternative Geocache listing sites as well.

 

I've often heard about park authorities going out and "pulling" all the caches in a park in quick time. Once geocaching or letterboxing is banned (or only allowed with specific permission), do park managers actually sit down every week and check all these websites for possible new cache placements?

 

And what if I list a cache where the dummy location is a car park within the park, but the cache is outside - and you need crytography skills to determine the actual location. Or what if the dummy location is well outside the park but it takes you inside the park (and you lied to the reviewer, or listed it elsewhere?). But you can only find this out by solving a difficult puzzle.

 

Do they go to the trouble of solving puzzles so that they can "pull" caches?

[+Miragee]

My park contact says he pulls letterboxes weekly as they don't have permission.

As the OP seems to have had adequate response to his query, can I go off slightly at a tangent...I guess that there's a letterbox listing site (although I've never seen it). We all know that there are alternative Geocache listing sites as well.

 

I've often heard about park authorities going out and "pulling" all the caches in a park in quick time. Once geocaching or letterboxing is banned (or only allowed with specific permission), do park managers actually sit down every week and check all these websites for possible new cache placements?

 

And what if I list a cache where the dummy location is a car park within the park, but the cache is outside - and you need crytography skills to determine the actual location. Or what if the dummy location is well outside the park but it takes you inside the park (and you lied to the reviewer, or listed it elsewhere?). But you can only find this out by solving a difficult puzzle.

 

Do they go to the trouble of solving puzzles so that they can "pull" caches?

I don't know if Rangers or Volunteers actually go to the trouble of solving puzzles, but in a huge, 600,000 acre park here, which had caches for more than seven years, placed with Guidelines provided by a Park Employee, Park staff started removing caches even before making their new "No Geocaching Policy" public.

 

One person affliated with that park threatened to remove a Final Container that isn't even located inside the Park. They have become very serious about not wanting Geocachers to visit the Park, even though some of the caches they pulled had fewer than six visitors per year.

[+OReviewer]

I've often heard about park authorities going out and "pulling" all the caches in a park in quick time. Once geocaching or letterboxing is banned (or only allowed with specific permission), do park managers actually sit down every week and check all these websites for possible new cache placements?

 

I know in at least one park, he does an 'every so often' sweep of all the sites that he knows about. If he finds stuff there without permission, he goes and picks them up. Most of the letterboxing sites don't have any good way to contact the owners. He's happy to have them as long as they're willing to fill out the paperwork.

[A son of liberty]

Thanks guys. I see now that that was kind of a newbie question.

 

As far as letterboxing websites go.... I use Atlasquest.com. Most people that are there are very active and can be contacted very easily. If you can't get the person who planted the box, you can get the guy who knows the guy. Letterboxing.org is another matter.....I've gone months without even going there. There's no need to as far as I'm concerned. There seem to be more clues on AQ and the community is much more active.

 

I have another question though. With letterboxing, you have an impression of the stamp that you found at the box to keep as verification and keepsake of the box that you found. I have yet to hit a cache that even has a trinket in it sooo.....is the record of ya'lls visit to the box limited to the virtual world or a note in your logbook?

 

Thanks

A son of liberty

[+TMDMom]

Some caches are large enough for trinkets, but they might not be anything specific to that cache like a stamp would be. You could make your own caching journal. I just use the online logs to keep track of my finds.

Edited April 17, 2008 by TMDMom

[+Keruso]

In my area, I publish the majority of cache listings upon the first review, and within hours to a day of submission. Most reviewers are just as fast, or even faster. You don't hear much about that in this Forum. The process is made "difficult" when the owner hasn't followed the listing guidelines. Then, I need to leave a note explaining that caches can't be buried, or whatever the issue is. Again, most of those situations are resolved, usually within a day to a week. You don't hear much about that in this Forum.

 

Mr. Keystone here lives in my area (also known as The Leprechauns) He and i had a problem or two with my Puzzle cache that i was trying to make. He is probably the most patient man/woman that i know. It took nearly a month for the cache to get published.

 

now, let's not talk about my multi-cache

[+BlueDeuce]

My park contact says he pulls letterboxes weekly as they don't have permission.

 

Do they go to the trouble of solving puzzles so that they can "pull" caches?

 

I'm surprised they don't take advantage of people wanting to find these things. I'd volunteer.

 

Sure you might not get to log it but at least you have the chance to look for it, with park permission, before it's carted off.

[+Thrak]

I've submitted final coordinates to the reviewer so he can be sure that the placement of a cache was ok.

 

I did have trouble getting a cache approved in a timely manner and discovered something important in the process. If you want to place a cache on a trail that exists where there used to be railroad tracks - a rails to trails thing - make sure to let the reviewer know in your notes that there are no longer tracks there. I placed a cache on a trail that hasn't had tracks for over 20 years but, when the reviewer was checking the location on a map, it still showed tracks there. Had I known then what I know now I would have made sure to let the reviewer know in the initial note and the cache could have been approved quickly.

 

The more info you can provide to the reviewer the more likely that your cache will be published without a problem.

[+Keruso]

same thing goes with graveyards. as long as you don't place a cache on a headstone, you should be fine. now, if you want to incorporate the headstone into the cache, just mark the coords for it, or something like that

[+TMDMom]

 

Mr. Keystone here lives in my area (also known as The Leprechauns) He and i had a problem or two with my Puzzle cache that i was trying to make. He is probably the most patient man/woman that i know. It took nearly a month for the cache to get published.

 

now, let's not talk about my multi-cache

 

just curious....how many man/women do you know?

 

 

 

[+Keruso]

 

Mr. Keystone here lives in my area (also known as The Leprechauns) He and i had a problem or two with my Puzzle cache that i was trying to make. He is probably the most patient man/woman that i know. It took nearly a month for the cache to get published.

 

now, let's not talk about my multi-cache

 

just curious....how many man/women do you know?

 

 

 

 

quite a lot

 

though i don't understand what you meant

[+Renegade Knight]

....just curious....how many man/women do you know?...

 

Everyone on the internet until proven otherwise.

[Keystone]

Mr. Keystone here lives in my area (also known as The Leprechauns) He and i had a problem or two with my Puzzle cache that i was trying to make. He is probably the most patient man/woman that i know.

Thank you for the kind words. Being the only hermaphrodite on the volunteer team, I have to try extra hard to fit in.

 

Back on topic, now, please.

[+Keruso]

well, that made me LOL! sorry, Keystone, online you never know who the person is until you see them in person

[+gof1]

Mr. Keystone here lives in my area (also known as The Leprechauns) He and i had a problem or two with my Puzzle cache that i was trying to make. He is probably the most patient man/woman that i know.

Thank you for the kind words. Being the only hermaphrodite on the volunteer team, I have to try extra hard to fit in.

 

Back on topic, now, please.

 

There is a joke about a hermaphrodite fitting in with him/her self in there some place.

[+WookieTravs]

well, that made me LOL! sorry, Keystone, online you never know who the person is until you see them in person

 

Are you now accusing Keystone of having multiple personality disorder???

[+The Leprechauns]

Are you now accusing Keystone of having multiple personality disorder???

His post was 100% accurate. Leave him alone.

[+KerBear]

as far as the review process for new caches-the reviewer (which is typically keystone for my area) and I haven't had much problems. some minor learning curve things. as stated in many posts-give lots of info. about the cache to the reviewer in the notes. I try to leave property manager whom approved cache, items about the area-esp in a cemetery, etc. didn't feel the process was too strict. glad they're checking up on what I'm trying to do. most of my caches are placed on dcnr property which requires permits for 3 years with possible renewal. the reviewer on gc.com is also checking known land manager rules. review process on other sites may not include that extra check. I've talked with dcnr people and they haven't pulled the letterboxes out of moraine but they're not happy about them. as far as the reviewer checking on the cache-they might be and you don't know it! I know some of mine have been found by reviewers under their acct they use to play. there's one that hasn't been found yet and zoie's still not talking!!

[+WookieTravs]

Are you now accusing Keystone of having multiple personality disorder???

His post was 100% accurate. Leave him alone.

 

All depends on which style book you follow

 

A sense of humor often helps when reading others' posts.

[+nikcap]

....

I have another question though. With letterboxing, you have an impression of the stamp that you found at the box to keep as verification and keepsake of the box that you found. I have yet to hit a cache that even has a trinket in it sooo.....is the record of ya'lls visit to the box limited to the virtual world or a note in your logbook?

 

That's a good question.

 

In a sense, I guess the legitimacy of your find is only recorded in the cache logbook. So any stats you might see are strictly on the honor system.

 

I've seen some cachers take pictures of their logs and post them on the cache pages or their blogs. So for those that are keeping score I guess this works well.

 

To, touch back opn your original question.

Why is the planting process so difficult?

 

I believe BrianSnat and ODragon answered this best.

 

Adding my two cents. On the surface, Geocaching is a much simpler game. All you need to do is grab a container with a piece of paper in it, record some coordinates and place them on this website.

Placing a letterbox requires much more work, from creating that stamp to recording the clues to the box placement. Much more thought and consideration goes into the average placement of a letterbox as compared to the typical placement of a new geocache. As a result, the volume of new cache placements is at least 20 time greater than the placement of new letterboxes.

 

I think we can assume that quantity and ease of placement results in more questionable cache placements.

 

I've never found a letterbox in a parking lot, on school property or on/under/in playground equipment, along active RR tracks, on a bridge, under an overpass, in the median of a highway, or 10 paces from a dirt patch off of the side of a busy road. I have found Geocaches in all of these locations.

[J.A.R.S.]

I've never found a letterbox in a parking lot, on school property or on/under/in playground equipment, along active RR tracks, on a bridge, under an overpass, in the median of a highway, or 10 paces from a dirt patch off of the side of a busy road. I have found Geocaches in all of these locations.

 

I've found letterboxes on school property, under playground equipment, within 20 feet of a very active RR track, and 10 paces off the side of a relatively busy road. Most of the actual boxes were very nice - great stamps, great presentation. Not so great location.

 

There are no reviewers on the letterboxing sites. Planters can plant as they wish. There are no online logs that would help to inform others if the location may not be suitable for some letterboxers. That's the number one thing I appreciate about geocaching.com - if someone does plant in a questionable location -- e.g. a known hang-out for drug users, someone will very likely post a log letting others know about the risk.

[+Keruso]

Are you now accusing Keystone of having multiple personality disorder???

His post was 100% accurate. Leave him alone.

 

FYI, Keystone and this person, the Leps, are the same person.

 

and if anyone wants to know, they got some great caches around here. One of them took me a year and a half to find

[+swaninwa]

I suppose it depends on your area, but here in the Pacific Northwest I think our reviewers do a FANTASTIC job! Our caches are almost always published within 24 hours of submission. Sometimes I can't believe how fast it happens. I did have one cache a while back that somehow got lost in the shuffle and didn't get published. After a few days I emailed one of the reviewers and asked about it. I got a very nice note back and the problem was fixed within minutes. I can't thank them enough for the great job they do!

 

Also, I don't find the submission process difficult at all, AND, I'm glad it's there because if it wasn't I think it would be BEDLAM!

 

Just my two cents...

[A son of liberty]

 

I've never found a letterbox in a parking lot, on school property or on/under/in playground equipment, along active RR tracks, on a bridge, under an overpass, in the median of a highway, or 10 paces from a dirt patch off of the side of a busy road. I have found Geocaches in all of these locations.

 

I tried a state university with one of my plants one time but campus security didn't really go for the idea.

[A son of liberty]

One of them took me a year and a half to find

 

That's a good thing?

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I have listed 50 caches or events; listing times ranged from 5 minutes to one day.

[+WookieTravs]

Are you now accusing Keystone of having multiple personality disorder???

His post was 100% accurate. Leave him alone.

 

FYI, Keystone and this person, the Leps, are the same person.

 

and if anyone wants to know, they got some great caches around here. One of them took me a year and a half to find

 

Thanks, Keruso, for letting a newb in on the joke! I appreciate it.