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Convincing a Park Manager to allow caches


benh57

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Has anyone put together a pack of resources for park managers to convince them to allow caches?

 

Items which would be useful:

 

1. - Several examples of park systems which allow caching, and their geocache policies procedures and permits.

2. - A good explanation of caching (the pamphlet works for this, pretty much)

 

#1 would be particularly useful. I've seen them variously posted on here, but compiling them into one site would be handy.

 

I could even host such a site, if folks want to post the links here :laughing:

 

thanks,

 

-Ben

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Here is a brochure from the Geocaching University web site:

 

http://geocacher-u.com/content/view/19/54/

 

Many municipalities allow geocaching in their parks and on their trails without the need for overly complex policies, procedures, or permits. I have worked with three of the towns around where I live and they all have a simple policy that states geocaches are allowed in their parks and on their trails. I took the time to make friends with them and explain geocaching to them. They even have my home phone number and can call me at any time if they experience any issue with regard to geocaching. It's going on four years now and I have never received a call for help.

 

Geocaching is a fun, outdoor recreational activity on par with walking, hiking, running, biking, etc. In fact, you could look for a local hiking or orienteering club that may already have established good relations with the specific park -- it's called politics and can go a long way to establish your credibility (just don't be obnoxious about it).

 

If the specific park in your case has areas off limits to the general public due to endangered species or due to inherent dangers in the area (e.g. steep gorge walls), then they may want to have a simple policy that requres all cache placements to be reviewed as to their location so as to avoid those areas. Personally, I don't see what value is added in issuing actual permits for the placing of caches.

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And yes, this may help preserve caching in a very big state park! :ph34r:

If the park folks already know about the geocaching hobby and there are concerns (it sounds like it from this follow-up post you made), then work with them to understand their concerns and find ways to dispell them or solve them. There are often times concerns over geocaching because of misunderstandings or lack of information.

 

Don't be hostile or overly defensive. It's more of a diplomatic situation, so be a diplomat. Let them get all their burdens and concerns out on the table. By sympathetic. Offer explanations or solutions. Raging against them won't win you anything.

Edited by Ferreter5
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Thanks for the info guys!

 

This huge park has had caches for 6 years, and now they say it's 'not allowed' after someone asked permission.

 

Hopefully we can convince them to implement a policy.

 

If anyone has more links, keep them coming.

 

-Ben

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Thanks for the info guys!

 

This huge park has had caches for 6 years, and now they say it's 'not allowed' after someone asked permission.

 

Hopefully we can convince them to implement a policy.

 

If anyone has more links, keep them coming.

 

-Ben

 

Offer to hold a few CITO events as a bribe to keep caches in there. If they still say no, call them up and pretend to be a reporter and ask them what they have against volunteers cleaning up the parks? :laughing:

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This huge park has had caches for 6 years, and now they say it's 'not allowed' after someone asked permission.

Definitely meet with them in person and be pleasant. Discuss the park, how much you enjoy visiting, and the good things you've heard other people say about it -- basically, inject some socializing aspects into the conversation.

 

You'll have to find out why "it's not allowed". Their original statement of the issue may not be all there is to it -- there may be an underlying issue driving the stated issue.

 

One thing that often comes up is the dreaded liability issue. Geocaching isn't any different than folks coming to the park to have a picnic, hike, walk, jog, bike ride, play frisbee, etc.

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One thing that has worked well for us here in North Dakota is have a Cache Coordinator work with and for the park system. I'm the coordinator for the local parks. It's a volunteer position with little to no power at all. We are basically a local face and name that the park can contact about any caching questions. We still send everything through GC.com, it just easier for them to deal with a person than an unknown computer based entity.

 

Be ready to some extra work from time to time if this happens. When the parks wants to open a new trail, one of the first things they do is ask me to hide a new cache. :rolleyes: I also have get to teach a class on caching every summer at the parks day celebration they hold.

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Thanks for the info guys!

 

This huge park has had caches for 6 years, and now they say it's 'not allowed' after someone asked permission.

 

Hopefully we can convince them to implement a policy.

 

If anyone has more links, keep them coming.

 

-Ben

Good luck. Anza Borrego Desert State Park, a huge 600,000 acre desert park, had caches for many years. Suddenly, without warning, during the Holiday Season last December, they changed their policy and proceeded to remove the caches and discard them. :rolleyes: A few of the caches that were thrown away had been in place for more than seven years and those log books had a lot of history in them.

 

The containers were removed, ostensibly because of adverse impact by Geocachers. However, some of these had fewer than six visitors in an entire year. The management at ABDSP is dead set against Geocaching . . . ;)

 

I hope you have better luck in your area than we have had here . . .

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This huge park has had caches for 6 years, and now they say it's 'not allowed' after someone asked permission.

 

This is another great example of why you should only ask for permission when necessary. A public park should not require explicit permission. Now it is possibly ruined in that park for everyone. The fact that there have been caches there for 6 years should be considered appropriate permission. So frustrating... :rolleyes:

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Thanks for the info guys!

 

This huge park has had caches for 6 years, and now they say it's 'not allowed' after someone asked permission.

 

Hopefully we can convince them to implement a policy.

 

If anyone has more links, keep them coming.

 

-Ben

Good luck. Anza Borrego Desert State Park, a huge 600,000 acre desert park, had caches for many years. Suddenly, without warning, during the Holiday Season last December, they changed their policy and proceeded to remove the caches and discard them. ;) A few of the caches that were thrown away had been in place for more than seven years and those log books had a lot of history in them.

 

The containers were removed, ostensibly because of adverse impact by Geocachers. However, some of these had fewer than six visitors in an entire year. The management at ABDSP is dead set against Geocaching . . . ;)

 

I hope you have better luck in your area than we have had here . . .

I used to spend almost every weekend around Occotillo Wells,Palm Spring and that area.I wish I was caching when I was stationed out there...That would have been so fun to do out there.No chance of a return caching trip I see. :rolleyes:

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I used to spend almost every weekend around Occotillo Wells,Palm Spring and that area.I wish I was caching when I was stationed out there...That would have been so fun to do out there.No chance of a return caching trip I see. :rolleyes:

Oh, there are tons of caches in the Ocotillo Wells ORV area and the Palm Springs area and in between. Just none in the spectacular ABDSP. However, I am doing my part to bring people back to that State Park by placing a "Virtual" Multi the Park Management is not happy about . . .

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I used to spend almost every weekend around Occotillo Wells,Palm Spring and that area.I wish I was caching when I was stationed out there...That would have been so fun to do out there.No chance of a return caching trip I see. :rolleyes:

Oh, there are tons of caches in the Ocotillo Wells ORV area and the Palm Springs area and in between. Just none in the spectacular ABDSP. However, I am doing my part to bring people back to that State Park by placing a "Virtual" Multi the Park Management is not happy about . . .

No I mean Palm Spring.It was a spring with like two palm trees near it right out in the middle of the desert...the spring is about the size of a kiddie pool.Really cool historical marker next to it stating it's use as a stop on the great overland stage route.Man I wish I could go back out there.

 

But try to get that cache back out there.I mean really,if they let guys tear up the desert with a pickup on 33's or racing 4 wheelers(In the ORV park obviously,although some were not as considerate as I was and went in other areas),they can let people geocache for pete's sake. ;)

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This huge park has had caches for 6 years, and now they say it's 'not allowed' after someone asked permission.

 

This is another great example of why you should only ask for permission when necessary. A public park should not require explicit permission. Now it is possibly ruined in that park for everyone. The fact that there have been caches there for 6 years should be considered appropriate permission. So frustrating... ;)

 

I have to disagree. The fact that there's been caches there for 6 years just mean hiders have not asked for permission for 6 years. It's my understanding that we should ask for and receive permission from a groundskeeper, superintendent, director, etc. prior to placing the cache.

 

In WV you must apply for a permit to hide a cache in a state park or wildlife management area. If the application is approved, your hide is good for one year and must then be archived. If I ( and/or others) decided to hide a cache in a WV state park based on assumed permission because other caches were hidden there, I (we) could possibly get caching in state parks banned.

 

In the Army I operated by the motto, "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission." It's how I got things done. I believe "It's better to ask for permission than for forgiveness." when hiding caches. It keeps the cachers free from harassment by LEOs and landowners and makes our hobby's reputation shine. :rolleyes:

Edited by cowcreekgeeks
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In the Army I operated by the motto, "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission." It's how I got things done. I believe "It's better to ask for permission than for forgiveness." when hiding caches. It keeps the cachers free from harassment by LEOs and landowners and makes our hobby's reputation shine. :mad:

 

Tell that to the owners of the caches that are now going to possibly be archived... Permission does not avoid harassment from LEO and landowners. There have been several examples given recently of caches being blown up by bomb squads (placed with permission)... And the Southern Cal cachers could give you a great example of caches placed with permission being removed by the same parks department that originally gave permission.

 

If there are cache guidelines in place, follow those guidelines... Otherwise, use your common sense and don't ruin other people's fun by starting the slow wheels of some beurocratic machine which will more than likely tell you no by default, because its easier for them.

Edited by ReadyOrNot
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This huge park has had caches for 6 years, and now they say it's 'not allowed' after someone asked permission.

 

This is another great example of why you should only ask for permission when necessary. A public park should not require explicit permission. Now it is possibly ruined in that park for everyone. The fact that there have been caches there for 6 years should be considered appropriate permission. So frustrating... :mad:

 

I have to disagree. The fact that there's been caches there for 6 years just mean hiders have not asked for permission for 6 years. It's my understanding that we should ask for and receive permission from a groundskeeper, superintendent, director, etc. prior to placing the cache.

 

In WV you must apply for a permit to hide a cache in a state park or wildlife management area. If the application is approved, your hide is good for one year and must then be archived. If I ( and/or others) decided to hide a cache in a WV state park based on assumed permission because other caches were hidden there, I (we) could possibly get caching in state parks banned.

 

In the Army I operated by the motto, "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission." It's how I got things done. I believe "It's better to ask for permission than for forgiveness." when hiding caches. It keeps the cachers free from harassment by LEOs and landowners and makes our hobby's reputation shine. :D

 

Amen to that. We must be totally above board. It leaves a bad impression when park rangers realize that they don't know what's going on in their park! :mad: Currently I'm working on getting permission to place caches in a county park system and it is taking some time. Park officials had to research geocaching (with my help), check with other park systems (with my help), and get a policy through legal. The approval should come any day. I've built a rapport with the county officials so when their policy does go into effect, everything will be in place for placing future caches. One official is thinking about trying geocaching himself. :D

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Thanks for the info guys!

 

This huge park has had caches for 6 years, and now they say it's 'not allowed' after someone asked permission.

 

Hopefully we can convince them to implement a policy.

 

If anyone has more links, keep them coming.

 

-Ben

 

Does this nice huge park allow bicycle riding? Horseback riding? Dogs on leash? Off trail hiking?

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This huge park has had caches for 6 years, and now they say it's 'not allowed' after someone asked permission.

 

This is another great example of why you should only ask for permission when necessary. A public park should not require explicit permission. Now it is possibly ruined in that park for everyone. The fact that there have been caches there for 6 years should be considered appropriate permission. So frustrating... :mad:

 

I have to disagree. The fact that there's been caches there for 6 years just mean hiders have not asked for permission for 6 years. It's my understanding that we should ask for and receive permission from a groundskeeper, superintendent, director, etc. prior to placing the cache.

 

In WV you must apply for a permit to hide a cache in a state park or wildlife management area. If the application is approved, your hide is good for one year and must then be archived. If I ( and/or others) decided to hide a cache in a WV state park based on assumed permission because other caches were hidden there, I (we) could possibly get caching in state parks banned.

 

In the Army I operated by the motto, "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than it is for permission." It's how I got things done. I believe "It's better to ask for permission than for forgiveness." when hiding caches. It keeps the cachers free from harassment by LEOs and landowners and makes our hobby's reputation shine. :D

 

Amen to that. We must be totally above board. It leaves a bad impression when park rangers realize that they don't know what's going on in their park! :mad: Currently I'm working on getting permission to place caches in a county park system and it is taking some time. Park officials had to research geocaching (with my help), check with other park systems (with my help), and get a policy through legal. The approval should come any day. I've built a rapport with the county officials so when their policy does go into effect, everything will be in place for placing future caches. One official is thinking about trying geocaching himself. :D

I agree with this too. I think you are living on borrowed time if you don't get permission; not to mention that it goes against the guidelines. We have had a rough time in San Diego even with permission. I would suggest learning what concerns the rangers in that park have and being very attentive to those concerns. It may not help if you get stuck with an ogre for a park supervisor, but it's worth a shot! Good luck!
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"II. Important Geocache Placement Reminder------------------------------------------

When placing a geocache, it is important to obtain permission and avoid placing a geocache in any location where it might be confused with something dangerous. Please take the time to ensure that your cache is appropriately placed and contributes to the positive experience of others. Important things to consider when placing or maintaining your geocache:1. Make sure that your geocache can easily be identified as a geocache. 2. Use a clear container, if possible, so that the contents are easily identified.3. Identify your container as a geocache by marking the outside of the container or attaching an Official Geocache sticker.

 

4. Make sure that you have permission from the landowner to place your cache on their property. "

 

I wonder, is no mention of 'Land Manager' a simple oversight or intentional?

Edited by Team Cotati
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Tell that to the owners of the caches that are now going to possibly be archived... Permission does not avoid harassment from LEO and landowners. There have been several examples given recently of caches being blown up by bomb squads (placed with permission)...

Why would a cacher be harassed by the landowner if the landowner knows the cache is in place and cachers will be coming for the find? I understand LEOs questioning a cacher...it's their job to check suspicious people. Bomb squads? Perhaps the hiders and the seekers weren't so stealthy.

 

And the Southern Cal cachers could give you a great example of caches placed with permission being removed by the same parks department that originally gave permission.
Why can't we ignore parks like we ignore caches? As far as geotourism goes, our dollars spend where the caches are, don't they? Why can't we show this to the people who are making decisions in these parks?

 

If there are cache guidelines in place, follow those guidelines... Otherwise, use your common sense and don't ruin other people's fun by starting the slow wheels of some beurocratic machine which will more than likely tell you no by default, because its easier for them.
I haven't hidden a cache yet. I went on to our state park website to get the address of my sister's WMA. I STUMBLED on to the state park and WMA geocaching guidelines. If I hadn't stumbled onto the guidelines I would have assumed permission. Perhaps it's better to start the bureaucratic wheels turning and in the mean time find other places to hide caches. It will be better for our hobby in the long run if we work with officials instead of behind their backs.

Look at the National Park Service...they're finally coming around to caching but it takes time!

Edited by cowcreekgeeks
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I just received a phone call from the Park Manager for a local State Park. He wants me to hold two classes at the park this summer. He also wants to know if I can hide some more caches out there.

 

Seeking permission and having a good reputation with the parks systems management has far more benefits than hiding from them and waiting for them to 'spoil your fun' when they find out about caching and your caches the wrong way.

It's also better than lying about and/or blatantly ignoring the guidelines you claim to have read.

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MiGO (Michigan Geocaching Organization) spent nearly four years working with the DNR on establishing a policy to open the state parks to geocaching that benefits both organizations. Originally, there was a fee that you had to pay each year, for each cache. Now, MiGO pays a blanket fee, and with permission from the site manager, and a simple application, a MiGO member can place a cache in most State Park land for free.

 

MiGO/Michigan DNR guidelines

 

(Edit to add:)

 

It also helps to have good P. R. - Here's what MiGO can do. Make sure to scroll through the gallery - you wouldn't believe what got pulled out of there! And there's still a lot of work needed there.

Edited by PJPeters
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I just received a phone call from the Park Manager for a local State Park. He wants me to hold two classes at the park this summer. He also wants to know if I can hide some more caches out there.

 

Seeking permission and having a good reputation with the parks systems management has far more benefits than hiding from them and waiting for them to 'spoil your fun' when they find out about caching and your caches the wrong way.

It's also better than lying about and/or blatantly ignoring the guidelines you claim to have read.

 

I don't believe that using my park is an issue of lying or ignoring guidelines.. I have given explicit permission to myself to use my parks.

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I don't believe that using my park is an issue of lying or ignoring guidelines.. I have given explicit permission to myself to use my parks.

:laughing:

 

What?

 

I wasn't talking to or about you. I was talking about those that circumvent the system and place caches in parks where they are not allowed by law or place them without getting permission or the proper paperwork when that is required by law as it is in many states.

 

I'm not sure what were you talking about? If I'm not mistaken in your case there was no law/requirement established by the park system. Is that correct? If so you did nothing wrong.

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I don't believe that using my park is an issue of lying or ignoring guidelines.. I have given explicit permission to myself to use my parks.

:laughing:

 

What?

 

I wasn't talking to or about you. I was talking about those that circumvent the system and place caches in parks where they are not allowed by law or place them without getting permission or the proper paperwork when that is required by law as it is in many states.

 

I'm not sure what were you talking about? If I'm not mistaken in your case there was no law/requirement established by the park system. Is that correct? If so you did nothing wrong.

 

The amount of parks that require by law specific permission has got to be a very very small percentage of the public areas in the world. I'm speaking specifically of public parks that do not have specific geocaching guidelines. I said in my post that if there are guidelines in place, those guidelines should be followed.

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I just received a phone call from the Park Manager for a local State Park. He wants me to hold two classes at the park this summer. He also wants to know if I can hide some more caches out there.

 

Seeking permission and having a good reputation with the parks systems management has far more benefits than hiding from them and waiting for them to 'spoil your fun' when they find out about caching and your caches the wrong way.

It's also better than lying about and/or blatantly ignoring the guidelines you claim to have read.

 

I don't believe that using my park is an issue of lying or ignoring guidelines.. I have given explicit permission to myself to use my parks.

 

And that right there is the very attitude that is going to be causing trouble on top of trouble for the game of geocaching all across this country.

 

Sad thing is that you and others know this to be true and you couldn't be less concerned if your lives depended upon it.

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I don't believe that using my park is an issue of lying or ignoring guidelines.. I have given explicit permission to myself to use my parks.

:laughing:

 

What?

 

I wasn't talking to or about you. I was talking about those that circumvent the system and place caches in parks where they are not allowed by law or place them without getting permission or the proper paperwork when that is required by law as it is in many states.

 

I'm not sure what were you talking about? If I'm not mistaken in your case there was no law/requirement established by the park system. Is that correct? If so you did nothing wrong.

 

The amount of parks that require by law specific permission has got to be a very very small percentage of the public areas in the world. I'm speaking specifically of public parks that do not have specific geocaching guidelines. I said in my post that if there are guidelines in place, those guidelines should be followed.

Note what I bolded in my post. I wasn't even refering to you. Are feeling guilty about something? Because that what it sounds like you're saying?

Edited by Totem Clan
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I just received a phone call from the Park Manager for a local State Park. He wants me to hold two classes at the park this summer. He also wants to know if I can hide some more caches out there.

 

Seeking permission and having a good reputation with the parks systems management has far more benefits than hiding from them and waiting for them to 'spoil your fun' when they find out about caching and your caches the wrong way.

It's also better than lying about and/or blatantly ignoring the guidelines you claim to have read.

 

I don't believe that using my park is an issue of lying or ignoring guidelines.. I have given explicit permission to myself to use my parks.

 

And that right there is the very attitude that is going to be causing trouble on top of trouble for the game of geocaching all across this country.

 

Sad thing is that you and others know this to be true and you couldn't be less concerned if your lives depended upon it.

 

I don't know it to be true. I find trouble often occurs when a well meaning geocacher wants the official sanction of park officials, who were otherwise content to let us practice the sport without their involvement.

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The amount of parks that require by law specific permission has got to be a very very small percentage of the public areas in the world.

 

Maybe so but here's what the your state parks say about it.

 

Tryon Creek (Lake Oswego), Banks Vernonia State Trail, Pilot Butte State Park and Fort Rock State Park don't allow caches.

 

All fee areas allow caches with permission and the park's input on the placement.

 

The no-fee and undeveloped state parks are open for caching.

 

Also they note that certain areas are monitored and security measures are in place. Also where park grounds are close to private property, indicate a parking spot so that cachers will stay in the park when searching.

All caches are allowed at the discretion of the of each Park Manager and they reserve the right to decide the validity all caches on a case by case basis. Park Managers decisions are final.

There is a Misc Use Permit for the state of Oregon. If wish to place a cache you need to contact the park in question. If they allow a cache, they will mail/fax/e-mail the paperwork to you. There is a $100 fee for these permits, but due to the short-term nature of being at a cache location, this is usually waived.

 

This is per the Oregon Parks and Recreation Department: State Parks website.

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Yeah, I think that I see your point. Those poor schmuck well intended geocachers must get really confused when they try and comply with this directive:

 

"If you place the cache on public lands you need to contact the managing agency to find out about their rules. You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks."

 

Without mentioning geocaching and how it works.

 

But then it just might be possible that lots of those same geocachers don't view something like that as "begging".

 

Like I said, "The exact attitude".

 

Thanks.

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I just received a phone call from the Park Manager for a local State Park. He wants me to hold two classes at the park this summer. He also wants to know if I can hide some more caches out there.

 

Seeking permission and having a good reputation with the parks systems management has far more benefits than hiding from them and waiting for them to 'spoil your fun' when they find out about caching and your caches the wrong way.

It's also better than lying about and/or blatantly ignoring the guidelines you claim to have read.

 

I don't believe that using my park is an issue of lying or ignoring guidelines.. I have given explicit permission to myself to use my parks.

 

And that right there is the very attitude that is going to be causing trouble on top of trouble for the game of geocaching all across this country.

 

Sad thing is that you and others know this to be true and you couldn't be less concerned if your lives depended upon it.

 

I don't know it to be true. I find trouble often occurs when a well meaning geocacher wants the official sanction of park officials, who were otherwise content to let us practice the sport without their involvement.

 

It really all depends on who you're dealing with. I've only been to one CITO event, but that was a big deal. The park was located on the Hudson river and you wouldn't believe what washes down the river. They took out truck loads of garbage. The rangers were really appreciative of the help and they were so well into geocaching and working with the local cachers that the head official mentioned in his speach to the group there were still a few islands without any caches and maybe somebody could arrange to put some on them.

I believe most state parks here allow geocaching with permits.

Private property is trickier because of liabiity. I went to a local gym that had sponsored a day of geocaching to see if I could place a cache on their property. The response I got was something like don't ask and don't tell. They didn't want to commit, but if one just happened to be located there..... What put the kibosh on the whole thing was the fact that they had a paying membership and they didn't really want to have the worry about liability of nonmembers too. Now if it were just for members and not the public at large.....and if one just happened to be located there....

Edited by Luckless
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..."If you place the cache on public lands you need to contact the managing agency to find out about their rules. You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks."...

 

There is no public land owner or manager with that directive.

 

You need to know your agencies and the people working for them. If they don't want to be bothered, leave them be. If they want to know ever last detail, give them every last detail. You should have enough respect and courtesy to be willing to pay attention to learn the difference.

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I just received a phone call from the Park Manager for a local State Park. He wants me to hold two classes at the park this summer. He also wants to know if I can hide some more caches out there.

 

Seeking permission and having a good reputation with the parks systems management has far more benefits than hiding from them and waiting for them to 'spoil your fun' when they find out about caching and your caches the wrong way.

It's also better than lying about and/or blatantly ignoring the guidelines you claim to have read.

 

I don't believe that using my park is an issue of lying or ignoring guidelines.. I have given explicit permission to myself to use my parks.

 

And that right there is the very attitude that is going to be causing trouble on top of trouble for the game of geocaching all across this country.

 

Sad thing is that you and others know this to be true and you couldn't be less concerned if your lives depended upon it.

 

I don't know it to be true. I find trouble often occurs when a well meaning geocacher wants the official sanction of park officials, who were otherwise content to let us practice the sport without their involvement.

This is why it's better to have some local representitives meet with park officials. That way everyone else stays out of it and lets the reps handle things. Edited by TrailGators
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I just received a phone call from the Park Manager for a local State Park. He wants me to hold two classes at the park this summer. He also wants to know if I can hide some more caches out there.

 

Seeking permission and having a good reputation with the parks systems management has far more benefits than hiding from them and waiting for them to 'spoil your fun' when they find out about caching and your caches the wrong way.

It's also better than lying about and/or blatantly ignoring the guidelines you claim to have read.

 

I don't believe that using my park is an issue of lying or ignoring guidelines.. I have given explicit permission to myself to use my parks.

 

And that right there is the very attitude that is going to be causing trouble on top of trouble for the game of geocaching all across this country.

 

Sad thing is that you and others know this to be true and you couldn't be less concerned if your lives depended upon it.

 

I don't know it to be true. I find trouble often occurs when a well meaning geocacher wants the official sanction of park officials, who were otherwise content to let us practice the sport without their involvement.

This is why it's better to have some local representitives meet with park officials. That way everyone else stays out of it and lets the reps handle things.

 

That sounds like a really great idea.

 

How would us geocachers determine who is the rep for our area? I wonder why this process isn't more activly promoted and described on the gc.com site.

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Yeah, I think that I see your point. Those poor schmuck well intended geocachers must get really confused when they try and comply with this directive:

 

"If you place the cache on public lands you need to contact the managing agency to find out about their rules. You will be in violation of federal regulation by placing a cache in any area administered by the National Park Service (US). The National Park regulations are intended to protect the fragile environment, and historical and cultural areas found in the parks."

 

Without mentioning geocaching and how it works.

 

But then it just might be possible that lots of those same geocachers don't view something like that as "begging".

 

Like I said, "The exact attitude".

 

Thanks.

That exact attitude has been around since day 1 in this sport. In that time we've seen the popularity explode and more and more park systems officially embrace geocaching.

 

I don't see the idea that we should be allowed to use our public parks for an activity that is healthful, benign and legal without begging for permission as being especially harmful. In a few instances it has caused problems, but most of the time it hasn't.

 

I'm more concerned about the rampant placement of caches on private property without permission of the landowner. If there is a potential, long term danger to the sport that is where you will find it.

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I just received a phone call from the Park Manager for a local State Park. He wants me to hold two classes at the park this summer. He also wants to know if I can hide some more caches out there.

 

Seeking permission and having a good reputation with the parks systems management has far more benefits than hiding from them and waiting for them to 'spoil your fun' when they find out about caching and your caches the wrong way.

It's also better than lying about and/or blatantly ignoring the guidelines you claim to have read.

 

I don't believe that using my park is an issue of lying or ignoring guidelines.. I have given explicit permission to myself to use my parks.

 

And that right there is the very attitude that is going to be causing trouble on top of trouble for the game of geocaching all across this country.

 

Sad thing is that you and others know this to be true and you couldn't be less concerned if your lives depended upon it.

 

I don't know it to be true. I find trouble often occurs when a well meaning geocacher wants the official sanction of park officials, who were otherwise content to let us practice the sport without their involvement.

This is why it's better to have some local representitives meet with park officials. That way everyone else stays out of it and lets the reps handle things.

 

That sounds like a really great idea.

 

How would us geocachers determine who is the rep for our area? I wonder why this process isn't more activly promoted and described on the gc.com site.

They leave it up to the locals to organize stuff like that, but our local admin is very active in doing stuff like that.
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I don't see the idea that we should be allowed to use our public parks for an activity that is healthful, benign and legal without begging for permission as being especially harmful. In a few instances it has caused problems, but most of the time it hasn't.

 

I'm more concerned about the rampant placement of caches on private property without permission of the landowner. If there is a potential, long term danger to the sport that is where you will find it.

I agree that we should be able to use 'our' lands and parks as we wish. I also hate that so many times caches do have to beg for permission. I could never understand why we had to jump through hoops to place a cache. However because there were regulations in place about caches in the states here I of course followed the guidelines and went through the correct procedures.

That's how I got on a first name basis with the management and learned a lot about there side of the issue. I've had to have three caches remove because they were not placed with permission. One cache that was there without the right paperwork I ended up adopting and correcting.

The difference between the caches archived and the one that was fixed is that the first three were hidden in areas that could have caused harm to the park itself. One was near the waterfowl nesting area and on a slope where a geo-trail would have caused, and had began to cause, an erosion issue. Another was near a cut bank and once again erosion was an issue. In fact all the rangers want for that one was to have it moved to the other side of the picnic grounds, but the owner refused to contact the reviewer or the park. The last one was hidden without permission and the owner archived it as soon as he was contacted without even being asked to. The park wanted that one they just wanted to paperwork done per their employers instructions.

I've learned that there may be issues with a cache site that you the don't know about because you don't know the land like the folks that work there everyday. There are place I wanted to place caches in the parks around that I have reconsidered now that I see it from their perspective. We don't need to see these land mangers as I block to our hobby but as an aide to our responsible enjoyment of it.

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I just received a phone call from the Park Manager for a local State Park. He wants me to hold two classes at the park this summer. He also wants to know if I can hide some more caches out there.

 

Seeking permission and having a good reputation with the parks systems management has far more benefits than hiding from them and waiting for them to 'spoil your fun' when they find out about caching and your caches the wrong way.

It's also better than lying about and/or blatantly ignoring the guidelines you claim to have read.

 

I don't believe that using my park is an issue of lying or ignoring guidelines.. I have given explicit permission to myself to use my parks.

 

And that right there is the very attitude that is going to be causing trouble on top of trouble for the game of geocaching all across this country.

 

Sad thing is that you and others know this to be true and you couldn't be less concerned if your lives depended upon it.

 

I don't know it to be true. I find trouble often occurs when a well meaning geocacher wants the official sanction of park officials, who were otherwise content to let us practice the sport without their involvement.

This is why it's better to have some local representitives meet with park officials. That way everyone else stays out of it and lets the reps handle things.

 

That sounds like a really great idea.

 

How would us geocachers determine who is the rep for our area? I wonder why this process isn't more activly promoted and described on the gc.com site.

They leave it up to the locals to organize stuff like that, but our local admin is very active in doing stuff like that.

 

I know about local volunteer reviewers however I am not familiar with local administrators.

 

How do we go about determining who our local admin is? It sure would be helpful if this process were more widely known outside these fourms.

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...

That sounds like a really great idea.

 

How would us geocachers determine who is the rep for our area? I wonder why this process isn't more activly promoted and described on the gc.com site.

In your area it's not going to be you. Unless you save your abrasivness for just the forums and in real life you are a peach. That said, locally cachers know who's involved, whos already done a good job and so on. Plus it depends on the circumstance. We have a cacher from the school district. If we wanted to talk to the school district about a cache on some of their raw land, they are a good contact. If you want to talk about the Greenway, I'm a good contact. If you want to talk about other locations someone else may fit the bill.

 

If you are an active local, this is all stuff you would know. The best person for the job tends to fall into place because you know the job, you know the people, and you know their track records.

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...I know about local volunteer reviewers however I am not familiar with local administrators.

 

How do we go about determining who our local admin is? It sure would be helpful if this process were more widely known outside these fourms.

Given you don't know I'm going to speculate that you more in tune with being the local troublemaker and not so much the go to person for cache problems.

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...Another was near a cut bank and once again erosion was an issue. In fact all the rangers want for that one was to have it moved to the other side of the picnic grounds...There are place I wanted to place caches in the parks around that I have reconsidered now that I see it from their perspective. We don't need to see these land mangers as I block to our hobby but as an aide to our responsible enjoyment of it.

 

Nice job. I've seen the cutbank issue first hand. It's one of the few emails I've sent to cache owners about their caches being a problem due to their location.

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In your area it's not going to be you. Unless you save your abrasivness for just the forums and in real life you are a peach. That said, locally cachers know who's involved, whos already done a good job and so on. Plus it depends on the circumstance. We have a cacher from the school district. If we wanted to talk to the school district about a cache on some of their raw land, they are a good contact. If you want to talk about the Greenway, I'm a good contact. If you want to talk about other locations someone else may fit the bill.

 

If you are an active local, this is all stuff you would know. The best person for the job tends to fall into place because you know the job, you know the people, and you know their track records.

Exactly.

UND now allows caches on campus because of the staff members that are cachers. If I had approached the university leaders to get permission for cache on campus they probably would have shown me the door. However I was the right person at the right place at the right time as far the state parks were concerned.

Get to know your local cacher and the local caching groups. You might be surprised how many great contacts you already have in place.

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