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A few questions about Pocket Query & Garmin 400t


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Hi folks,

 

I just got my Garmin 400t yesterday and am VERY excited to start caching!

 

I've got everything set up, I think...

 

I decided to get some caches and was sad to learn that I can only download ONE file at a time from geocaching.com! That's just crazy!

 

Anyways...I then found this pocket query dealio and reading over it, it appears I can download up to 500 caches at a time!...well not download but have it emailed to me. Very nice! Although more than 500 caches would have been nicer! :o

 

Wow the email took a long time! I thought it might take a few minutes or at most an hour...well I got it about 8 hours later! Although I might have not done it right initially. I did a one time query, then I waited, then went to sleep, and it still wasn't there. I went to the site and noticed that no days were checked. With a one time query do I need to check a day? Anyways I just checked thursday (today) then didn't see any way to submit it so I just unchecked the day. A few minutes later I got the email. So I don't know if the file was sent to me because I checked the day or if the email just happened to show up after I did that.

 

So I opened the zipped file and saw there were two files. One appears to be the cache file and one was a waypoint file. I'm not sure what the difference is or what the waypoint file is used for so I just loaded both onto my 400t. Do I need to load both? I put both in the GPX directory, was the waypoint file supposed to go somewhere else?

 

The caches showed up in my 400t! WOW! Super easy!

 

Now a few questions about what happens next..

 

So there was a single GPX file. When I find a cache, how do I report it back to the geocaching site? I would want to log it so I don't search for it again.

 

What's the best way to load new caches to the device? I did a google map query to build my pocket cache. However if new caches show up, how do I add them to my list? For example if I download 500 caches in my city via the pocket cache, and a new cache shows up, I would want to add it to the 500 I already have but not lose any of the caches I already downloaded. I would like to append to the file I guess. Can I have more than one of these pocket query files on my device? If I download the same query to capture the new caches and load it onto my 400t will the device recognize the duplicates and not load those? What's the best way to manage my caches?

 

Sorry if I am being confusing I'm just excited and am trying to plan this out! :)

 

Thanks for your help!

 

BTW if this post is in the wrong section please let me know and I'll post it there.

Edited by maynerd_mjk
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You can get several PQs. I get them by "Date Placed" in this cache-rich area so I have a wider Search circle, instead of having several overlapping location circles. Then, you put all that data into a program like GSAK (Geocaching Swiss Army Knife). In that program you can filter, slice, and dice the data just the way you want before Exporting a .gpx file to load into the Colorado.

 

I have well over 3000 caches in three different "region" databases in GSAK so I can be prepared for whichever direction we decide to go.

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GSAK is the route many people go as Miragee suggests. If you just want to keep it simple for now here's what you can do.

 

Create a Pocket Query around the area where you cache (i.e. 500 closest caches to some center point, say your home coordinates). Make sure in the PQ you filter out your finds (check the "I haven't found" box). Set this query up so that it runs periodically, say once a week.

 

On the Colorado your process works something like this.

 

1) When you get a new PQ copy the gpx file to [drive]:\Garmin\GPX on the CO (ignore the wpts.gpx file for right now)

2) Go find caches. As you find them you can "log attempt" and mark them "found" on the Colorado.

3) Upload found caches using the Field Note support and log them as found on the site. Instructions are on the field notes page.

4) When you get receive a new PQ from Groundspeak goto 1)

 

As you find caches they will be eliminated from the PQ and you'll always have the 500 closest caches to your location.

 

If new caches come up during the week and you really want them on the Colorado you can goto the cache page and click SendToGPS. This sends a gpx file with a single cache to your Colorado. You should delete these gpx files before you download your next PQ (Step 3a above). They have names like GC12345.gpx and are in the same directory.

 

Handling child waypoints (-wpts.gpx) is a little more involved, but let's see if this makes sense first!

 

GO$Rs

Edited by g-o-cashers
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GSAK is the route many people go as Miragee suggests. If you just want to keep it simple for now here's what you can do.

 

Create a Pocket Query around the area where you cache (i.e. 500 closest caches to some center point, say your home coordinates). Make sure in the PQ you filter out your finds (check the "I haven't found" box). Set this query up so that it runs periodically, say once a week.

 

On the Colorado your process works something like this.

 

1) When you get a new PQ copy the gpx file to [drive]:\Garmin\GPX on the CO (ignore the wpts.gpx file for right now)

2) Go find caches. As you find them you can "log attempt" and mark them "found" on the Colorado.

3) Upload found caches using the Field Note support and log them as found on the site. Instructions are on the field notes page.

4) When you get receive a new PQ from Groundspeak goto 1)

 

As you find caches they will be eliminated from the PQ and you'll always have the 500 closest caches to your location.

 

If new caches come up during the week and you really want them on the Colorado you can goto the cache page and click SendToGPS. This sends a gpx file with a single cache to your Colorado. You should delete these gpx files before you download your next PQ (Step 3a above). They have names like GC12345.gpx and are in the same directory.

 

Handling child waypoints (-wpts.gpx) is a little more involved, but let's see if this makes sense first!

 

GO$Rs

 

Thanks for your reply. This makes sense. However my situation is a bit...awkward. :anitongue:

 

Here's a little layout of my situation. I live in Bellevue, work in Seattle, and my GF works in Redmond. I want to load caches for the surrounding bellevue area for my GF and I to play around with when we are together. I will from time to time bring it to work with me and want to search for caches during lunch. My GF will want to do the same when she's at work. Unfortunately there are more than 500 caches when you try to combine all 3 areas, in fact there are more than 500 in each area! LOTS of caches! :anitongue:

 

Can I load 3 different GPX files for each area? What will happen if there is some overlap?

 

Also I noticed a filter on the pocket query that is called "Is Active" I assume that this means that the cache is still available? Why would anyone NOT have this box checked?

 

There are over 5k caches within 50 miles of my home. If I go with the GSAK thing how do I get all of them and how do I update them from as there is a limit of 500? Sorry if I'm being dumb here....

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Im new to all this myself and would like to know what is a pocket query, and how do use it?

Thank you

Here is Markwell's great tutorial about Pocket Queries.

 

When I create a Pocket Query, this is how I fill out one section of the form:

 

2e19e8d7-5e21-4326-8cef-6327c29f2302.jpg

 

Because this area is so "cache-rich," I create my PQs from a centerpoint that gives me a 50-mile radius and set them up by "Date Placed." A 500-cache circle in this area is not very big . . . and it is easy to drive right out of its radius . . . :anitongue:

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Thanks for your reply. This makes sense. However my situation is a bit...awkward. :anitongue:

 

Here's a little layout of my situation. I live in Bellevue, work in Seattle, and my GF works in Redmond. I want to load caches for the surrounding bellevue area for my GF and I to play around with when we are together. I will from time to time bring it to work with me and want to search for caches during lunch. My GF will want to do the same when she's at work. Unfortunately there are more than 500 caches when you try to combine all 3 areas, in fact there are more than 500 in each area! LOTS of caches! :anitongue:

 

Can I load 3 different GPX files for each area? What will happen if there is some overlap?

 

Also I noticed a filter on the pocket query that is called "Is Active" I assume that this means that the cache is still available? Why would anyone NOT have this box checked?

 

There are over 5k caches within 50 miles of my home. If I go with the GSAK thing how do I get all of them and how do I update them from as there is a limit of 500? Sorry if I'm being dumb here....

 

You can load overlapping PQs onto the Colorado up to a maximum of 2000 total caches.

 

Managing caches in GSAK is another entire beast. I currently maintain all of New England in a database of about 15000 caches but it takes work and requires that you run many PQ's (usually organized by date) so that you can minimize overlap.

 

I'm sure there are some good tutorials on using GSAK which someone can point to you too, maybe over at http://gsak.net

 

GO$Rs

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<snip>

 

Also I noticed a filter on the pocket query that is called "Is Active" I assume that this means that the cache is still available? Why would anyone NOT have this box checked?

 

There are over 5k caches within 50 miles of my home. If I go with the GSAK thing how do I get all of them and how do I update them from as there is a limit of 500? Sorry if I'm being dumb here....

I don't know if these dates will help you in your area, but these are the date ranges that worked for this "cache-rich" area.

 

01/01/00 - 12/31/04

01/01/05 - 04/25/06

04/26/06 - 12/31/06

01/01/07 - 05/26/07

05/27/07 - 10/20/07

10/21/07 - 02/15/08

02/16/08 - 05/30/08

 

I run all of these at least once a week. After running all of them, I use the "Last 2 DNF" filter in GSAK to look at the caches that were not found by the last two cachers. Some of those I Delete from my database, some I leave in, depending on the circumstances of the DNFs.

 

Then, I use the "Last .gpx Update" filter to get rid of all the caches in my GSAK database that did not update. Those are caches that were either Disabled or Archived since the last time I got that PQ. Doing that keeps me from having "stale" data in my GPS when I send a brand new set of caches to my GPS as Waypoints and as Custom POIs.

 

As to why someone would want to get caches that are Not Active, it might be useful to get a PQ of caches that are Not Active just to see how many caches need action by their owners.

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As to why someone would want to get caches that are Not Active, it might be useful to get a PQ of caches that are Not Active just to see how many caches need action by their owners.

If you are importing your PQs into GSAK the cache is updated to "Not Active" in your database. This way you don't go out looking for a cache that has been disabled, this doesn't work for archived caches but that's another story all together.

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As to why someone would want to get caches that are Not Active, it might be useful to get a PQ of caches that are Not Active just to see how many caches need action by their owners.

If you are importing your PQs into GSAK the cache is updated to "Not Active" in your database. This way you don't go out looking for a cache that has been disabled, this doesn't work for archived caches but that's another story all together.

True, but if you only get caches that are "Active" in your PQs, and use the "Last .gpx Update" filter, you will see the ones that did not Update and then can Delete them.

 

I used to get all the caches in this area, "Active" and "Not Active". The "Not Active" ones stayed that way for months and months. It was depressing . . . :anitongue: For me, it was just better to not see those neglected caches. :anitongue: If they ever go Active again, I'll get a Notification. ;)

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You can load overlapping PQs onto the Colorado up to a maximum of 2000 total caches.

 

Managing caches in GSAK is another entire beast. I currently maintain all of New England in a database of about 15000 caches but it takes work and requires that you run many PQ's (usually organized by date) so that you can minimize overlap.

 

I'm sure there are some good tutorials on using GSAK which someone can point to you too, maybe over at http://gsak.net

 

GO$Rs

 

Thanks for the info. When you say I can load overlapping PQs, are you saying that if there are two that overlap that the garmin counts that as two caches or just one? Also, when I am seeking out caches will it show the cache twice or will it be smart enough to only display one of the two caches? When I mark it found will it cause problems when sending the information to geocaching.com?

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Thanks for the info. When you say I can load overlapping PQs, are you saying that if there are two that overlap that the garmin counts that as two caches or just one? Also, when I am seeking out caches will it show the cache twice or will it be smart enough to only display one of the two caches? When I mark it found will it cause problems when sending the information to geocaching.com?

 

I'm speculating some here but based on what I know about how the Colorado builds its internal database and from some smaller scale tests, here's what I suspect:

 

- With overlapping PQ's you will get only one entry per GCID because the Colorado indexes them by a unique integer ID it gets from geocaching.com. However, if one PQ is newer than the other I'm not sure the Colorado will always pick the most current data, it would be an interesting test.

 

- Shouldn't be any problems when you mark the cache found since there is only one cache in the database.

 

- As far as the total cache count goes, I'm not sure but I'm guessing you can probably have 2000 unique caches. Probably the internal database that can only hold 2k caches. This is a guess however.

 

One final note. Timpat and others have seen problems loading multiple 500 cache PQ's on the Colorado. The problem they observe is missing caches in their database unless they load the gpx files one at a time. I only use GSAK and a single gpx file and have never seen a case where I have missing cache (but I don't always check 100's of caches either!).

 

GO$Rs

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With a one time query do I need to check a day? Anyways I just checked thursday (today) then didn't see any way to submit it so I just unchecked the day. A few minutes later I got the email. So I don't know if the file was sent to me because I checked the day or if the email just happened to show up after I did that.

 

This is how I do it. I have never seen it explained how this works (even the link to the FAQ's).

 

If I want a PQ to run, I check today's box, wait a little bit and uncheck it. That seems to kick off the email.

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I have the 400t and I think I recall seeing the same cache twice when I had overlap. One I found and marked "found" but the other didn't go away. They were the same cache. What I do is just to take a 500 cache radius from my home coords and then see how far out the furthest cache is and then plan my next PQ to come as close to that as possible (with minimal overlap). I load up three PQs that way and cover an area from Missoula, MT to Spokane, WA to Newport, WA without having to worry about a route-based PQ. Once I find some caches during trips, I rerun the PQs, delete the old and add the new.

 

I haven't used the 400t to upload any logs yet, I still do it the old fashioned way.

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I have the 400t and I think I recall seeing the same cache twice when I had overlap. One I found and marked "found" but the other didn't go away. They were the same cache. What I do is just to take a 500 cache radius from my home coords and then see how far out the furthest cache is and then plan my next PQ to come as close to that as possible (with minimal overlap). I load up three PQs that way and cover an area from Missoula, MT to Spokane, WA to Newport, WA without having to worry about a route-based PQ. Once I find some caches during trips, I rerun the PQs, delete the old and add the new.

 

I haven't used the 400t to upload any logs yet, I still do it the old fashioned way.

 

Oh man that really sucks about the overlap if true. I hope your wrong. :anitongue:

 

Unfortunately we have a LOT of caches in the seattle area. I've got 500+ within 5 miles of my home.

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I have the 400t and I think I recall seeing the same cache twice when I had overlap. One I found and marked "found" but the other didn't go away. They were the same cache. What I do is just to take a 500 cache radius from my home coords and then see how far out the furthest cache is and then plan my next PQ to come as close to that as possible (with minimal overlap). I load up three PQs that way and cover an area from Missoula, MT to Spokane, WA to Newport, WA without having to worry about a route-based PQ. Once I find some caches during trips, I rerun the PQs, delete the old and add the new.

 

I haven't used the 400t to upload any logs yet, I still do it the old fashioned way.

 

Oh man that really sucks about the overlap if true. I hope your wrong. :anitongue:

 

Unfortunately we have a LOT of caches in the seattle area. I've got 500+ within 5 miles of my home.

I have about 6 pocket queries that cover the Phoenix area ( for what I need ).

 

I simplyl load all 6 gpx files in a single GSAK database and create a GPX file for my 400t from there. No overlap, no problems.

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I have the 400t and I think I recall seeing the same cache twice when I had overlap. One I found and marked "found" but the other didn't go away. They were the same cache. What I do is just to take a 500 cache radius from my home coords and then see how far out the furthest cache is and then plan my next PQ to come as close to that as possible (with minimal overlap). I load up three PQs that way and cover an area from Missoula, MT to Spokane, WA to Newport, WA without having to worry about a route-based PQ. Once I find some caches during trips, I rerun the PQs, delete the old and add the new.

 

I haven't used the 400t to upload any logs yet, I still do it the old fashioned way.

 

Oh man that really sucks about the overlap if true. I hope your wrong. :anitongue:

 

Unfortunately we have a LOT of caches in the seattle area. I've got 500+ within 5 miles of my home.

I have about 6 pocket queries that cover the Phoenix area ( for what I need ).

 

I simplyl load all 6 gpx files in a single GSAK database and create a GPX file for my 400t from there. No overlap, no problems.

 

Looks like I'm going to have to check into this GSAK thing.

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I have several GPX files that have overlapping caches. I upload them to my Colorado and only see one cache for each of the overlaps.

 

O'rly? that's good news. Can you comment on some of the things that g-o-cashers was speculating on? He was being quite helpful but I don't know if he knows for SURE on some of the things he was mentioning. Perhaps you could help?

 

Here's what he said...

 

I'm speculating some here but based on what I know about how the Colorado builds its internal database and from some smaller scale tests, here's what I suspect:

 

- With overlapping PQ's you will get only one entry per GCID because the Colorado indexes them by a unique integer ID it gets from geocaching.com. However, if one PQ is newer than the other I'm not sure the Colorado will always pick the most current data, it would be an interesting test.

 

- Shouldn't be any problems when you mark the cache found since there is only one cache in the database.

 

- As far as the total cache count goes, I'm not sure but I'm guessing you can probably have 2000 unique caches. Probably the internal database that can only hold 2k caches. This is a guess however.

 

One final note. Timpat and others have seen problems loading multiple 500 cache PQ's on the Colorado. The problem they observe is missing caches in their database unless they load the gpx files one at a time. I only use GSAK and a single gpx file and have never seen a case where I have missing cache (but I don't always check 100's of caches either!).

 

GO$Rs

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O'rly? that's good news. Can you comment on some of the things that g-o-cashers was speculating on? He was being quite helpful but I don't know if he knows for SURE on some of the things he was mentioning. Perhaps you could help?

 

I just ran a test where I loaded almost exactly the same PQ into the Colorado with two different names. All 480 caches that were in both files showed up once and only once. Each file also had a single unique cache just to make sure both files were getting processed. Both of these unique caches also showed up.

 

GO$Rs

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One final note. Timpat and others have seen problems loading multiple 500 cache PQ's on the Colorado. The problem they observe is missing caches in their database unless they load the gpx files one at a time. I only use GSAK and a single gpx file and have never seen a case where I have missing cache (but I don't always check 100's of caches either!).

 

GO$Rs

 

I've seen this with loading 2 GPX files generated by GSAK. I had GPX file 'A' (+/- 600 caches) on the Colorado 300. I deleted it and added GPX files 'B' (+/- 650 caches) and 'C' (10 caches). The caches in file 'B' show up but not file 'C'. I regenerated file 'C' from GSAK, deleted the original file 'C' from the Colorado and replaced it with the new version. Then the caches from both files showed up.

 

I subsequently deleted file 'C' and added file 'D' (+/- 200 caches) which was also generated by GSAK. The caches from 'D' seem to be there although I only spot checked a few.

 

I have firmware 2.4 on a Colorado 300. I used GSAK (latest version) default GPX export settings to generate the GPX files so child waypoints are included in the export. I am accessing the GPX file from the Colorado's internal memory and not the SD card.

 

I've seen this issue mentioned in the FAQ/Issues list related to PQ's being directly loaded, but have others seen this when loading multiple GSAK generated GPX files? I tried to find a thread that addresses this issue specifically but was not able to. If I understand correctly this is a random thing. Is that correct? Are there any updates or insights anyone can offer me? For now I guess I'll follow the advice of loading only one GPX file at a time.

 

Thanks.

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I've never seen this particular issue but most of the time I'm loading a single file and maybe one or two small files.

 

I did have a discussion with Timpat and one one thing he looked at was whether it had something to do with child waypoints. There did seem to be a correlation. When multiple PQ were loaded it seemed like the caches with child waypoints in the -wpts.gpx file were getting dropped. Usually in gsak this isn't the case because the children and the caches are all in the same gpx file unless you are doing something special to break them into two files.

 

In the end Timpat found he could load multiple PQs if he loaded all of his PQ cache .gpx files first, rebooted and then loaded all of the -wpts.gpx files.

 

From your description it sounds like you are seeing something different. Any time you have a problem like this I would suggest just what you did either delete and replace or rename the gpx file. This will cause the CO to reload on the next boot cycle.

 

GO$Rs

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