GeoCaching is more than a game.

[+gof1]

This thread is not directed at GS.com, it is simply some thoughts that I would have posted in another topic, but that conversation has been shut down. So I come here to bring up the idea that it is not a valid solution just to tell people to leave.

 

If you don't like that some with differing opinions than yours are here, you're welcome to leave the thread, and start your own GeoCaching blog on some other site.

 

If you have some valid point to make I'm glad to hear it, if you wand just to call me a whiner and attack my computer skills, then you're welcome to keep it to yourself. I have not done these things to you.

 

So you are allowed to shoot of your mouth but we have to shut up?

If all you have to say is that I am whining, or to accuse me of some malicious activity because you're not understanding the space of time between my posts, then yes you're welcome to shut up. If you actually have anything to say, then you're welcome to say it.

 

I'm simply applying the same logic used by others to this thread. I'm not telling anyone to shut up, I'm not a moderator and have no ability to do that, I'm only saying that you are welcome to.

 

I see. So you are complaining about people who tell posters to go play elsewhere? And you want me to shut up and go away? Is that correct?

[+Renegade Knight]

In my career, there have always been employees that sit around and complain about how much they hate their job. ...

 

In my career there have also been employees who offer up constructive critism that would actually make their job and the company better only to be shut down and be told to quit whining. If the employee had the power to make the change they would. They don't so all they can do is suggest. Strangly that's what happens a lot in the forums.

 

I don't mind constructive critisism... You aren't implying that the *other* thread was constructive are you? ...

 

Actually I don't know which other thread you are talking about since I read this thread a a generic take on the forums as a whole. But if you take any one post in any one thread, then yeah some are constructive. Those are the ones that say "you need to be clear on the rule" or "Why not let the benefit of the doubt go to the cache owner". The ones that say, "free speech doesn't apply" or "Tough nuts, get your own site" are not.

 

I forgot to mention: The ones who are banned are the ones who tend to be as belligerent as the sycophant crowd can be but against the site. If you are going to stand on a side opposing the site on an issue, you do need to be constructive else you are banned. That part of the equation tends to be underrepresented in the forums.

Edited April 9, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

This thread is not directed at GS.com, it is simply some thoughts that I would have posted in another topic, but that conversation has been shut down. So I come here to bring up the idea that it is not a valid solution just to tell people to leave.

 

If you don't like that some with differing opinions than yours are here, you're welcome to leave the thread, and start your own GeoCaching blog on some other site.

 

If you have some valid point to make I'm glad to hear it, if you wand just to call me a whiner and attack my computer skills, then you're welcome to keep it to yourself. I have not done these things to you.

 

So you are allowed to shoot of your mouth but we have to shut up?

If all you have to say is that I am whining, or to accuse me of some malicious activity because you're not understanding the space of time between my posts, then yes you're welcome to shut up. If you actually have anything to say, then you're welcome to say it.

 

I'm simply applying the same logic used by others to this thread. I'm not telling anyone to shut up, I'm not a moderator and have no ability to do that, I'm only saying that you are welcome to.

 

I see. So you are complaining about people who tell posters to go play elsewhere? And you want me to shut up and go away? Is that correct?

I am repeating the same statement told to one group, and applying it to the group who first used it. Obviously we will never get anywhere on that topic, as some will just use that to pick a fight.

 

"Hey, you're standing on my toes"

 

"No, I'm not"

 

"Umm...yes, you are"

 

"Are you calling me a liar"

[+Sioneva]

What an interesting signature line you have... 'If you're tired of Drive Up Micros...Don't "drive up" to them.'

 

I could draw an analogy here, but since I'm a tough Nebraskan, I won't.

 

I'll let others do it.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

What an interesting signature line you have... 'If you're tired of Drive Up Micros...Don't "drive up" to them.'

 

I could draw an analogy here, but since I'm a tough Nebraskan, I won't.

 

I'll let others do it.

My point was that just because a Micro is in a Parking Lot, doesn't mean you have to "Drive Up" to it. I sometimes will find a batch of those while making a several mile hike out of instead of driving to each one.

Edited April 9, 2008 by WRITE SHOP ROBERT

[+Renegade Knight]

I see. So you are complaining about people who tell posters to go play elsewhere? And you want me to shut up and go away? Is that correct?

 

Looks to me like it's pretty clear. Say something constructive or feel free to say nothing at all. Going away looks to be optional. While I commend you on a nice play on words, WSR is not acting like those he's calling out.

Edited April 9, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+El Diablo]

I see. So you are complaining about people who tell posters to go play elsewhere? And you want me to shut up and go away? Is that correct?

 

gof it sounds like some one peed in your cheerios. In a couple of threads you seem unhappy.

 

I think we should all get together and give you a big group hug! Maybe you will feel better then.

 

El Diablo

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I see. So you are complaining about people who tell posters to go play elsewhere? And you want me to shut up and go away? Is that correct?

 

What's wrong...You don't think that's a valid solution. It's valid when I'm told to go play elsewhere, but not when I say that you're welcome to go discuss it elsewhere. Ironic.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

So for those who will say "if you don't undersatand the groundrules for this ballpark, rather than ask for clarification, you're welcome to leave and go play at the sandlot sown the street, as we don't want you in our community".

 

That's not being realistic.

 

Anyway. Thanks Groundspeak for creating such a comprehensive and easy to use site, which has allowed the game to grow to the size it is today. If this site were not created, then many of the players here today would never have heard of the game, or would have found it too difficult to understand and navigate.

 

You've built a beautiful superhighway that get's many people to their destinations quickly and easily, but when some people ask for the speed limit to be increased, or to add an exit to X destination (or to not close an exit) then to tell them...

 

"If you don't like our speed limit, or the placement of our exits, then you're welcome to get off our highway. Maybe you should just go and use the slow and difficult to navigate city streets, (or all those dirt roads out in the desert) to get to your destination."

 

May not be the best response.

 

Anyway, to get back on topic...

 

In a Community, to simply tell a portion of the members who differ in opinion to go away and start their own community is not really a constructive and valid way to communicate.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

This is the whine that never ends... it just goes on and on, my friends...

 

To call my topic a "Whine"...is that the same as calling me a "Whiner"?

 

<snip>

 

*thinks about it*

 

I suppose it is. If the shoe fits... anyway, I'm done.

Oh, I see...I didn't notice you were from Nebraska. I'm from California, so we are all Whiners out here. We weren't tough enough to cut it in NE, so we all came out this way.

 

 

Um, okay. If you say so. Actually, I'm from Vermont, so I must be extra tough.

Interesting location you list since you're from Vermont. I suppose you can't see

Um, okay. If you say so.

how I would think you were from Nebraska.

[+KoosKoos]

I see. So you are complaining about people who tell posters to go play elsewhere? And you want me to shut up and go away? Is that correct?

 

What's wrong...You don't think that's a valid solution. It's valid when I'm told to go play elsewhere, but not when I say that you're welcome to go discuss it elsewhere. Ironic.

The circles...they go round and round!!!

[+Totem Clan]

I see. So you are complaining about people who tell posters to go play elsewhere? And you want me to shut up and go away? Is that correct?

 

gof it sounds like some one peed in your cheerios. In a couple of threads you seem unhappy.

 

I think we should all get together and give you a big group hug! Maybe you will feel better then.

 

El Diablo

A cold pint or two and a cache or two would be good about right.

 

I will say that if you don't want to play by the guidelines the community has set than you do need to 'go play somewhere else.' However just because someone asks question or takes a position that is not favored by others does mean that they should be shoved aside. By that same standard just because some, or for that matter even the majority, of the community doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean you can shove them either. I think, at least in this case, plenty of blame can be placed on both sides. Let's all stop pushing just to push. Let's all stop complaining just to complain.

 

First round is on me.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I see. So you are complaining about people who tell posters to go play elsewhere? And you want me to shut up and go away? Is that correct?

 

gof it sounds like some one peed in your cheerios. In a couple of threads you seem unhappy.

 

I think we should all get together and give you a big group hug! Maybe you will feel better then.

 

El Diablo

A cold pint or two and a cache or two would be good about right.

 

... if you don't want to play by the guidelines the community has set than you do need to 'go play somewhere else.'

 

First round is on me.

That's kinda the problem. "The Community" is not being allowed to voice opinions in the process of setting any guidelines.

 

The guidelines are set by the Mayor, who hapens to own the town, and those who ask the Mayor to make any change(or even explain the law, or the reason for the law) are told that they can just leave town???????

 

Oh yeah, then after many have been told to leave, the few remaining are being told.

 

"Look around, you're the only one who thinks that"

[+Totem Clan]

That's kinda the problem. "The Community" is not being allowed to voice opinions in the process of setting any guidelines.

 

The guidelines are set by the Mayor, who hapens to own the town, and those who ask the Mayor to make any change(or even explain the law, or the reason for the law) are told that they can just leave town???????

 

Oh yeah, then after many have been told to leave, the few remaining are being told.

 

"Look around, you're the only one who thinks that"

So what you are saying is that you are being told what to do and don't like that?

Edited April 9, 2008 by Totem Clan

[+El Diablo]

I see. So you are complaining about people who tell posters to go play elsewhere? And you want me to shut up and go away? Is that correct?

 

gof it sounds like some one peed in your cheerios. In a couple of threads you seem unhappy.

 

I think we should all get together and give you a big group hug! Maybe you will feel better then.

 

El Diablo

A cold pint or two and a cache or two would be good about right.

 

... if you don't want to play by the guidelines the community has set than you do need to 'go play somewhere else.'

 

First round is on me.

That's kinda the problem. "The Community" is not being allowed to voice opinions in the process of setting any guidelines.

 

The guidelines are set by the Mayor, who hapens to own the town, and those who ask the Mayor to make any change(or even explain the law, or the reason for the law) are told that they can just leave town???????

 

Oh yeah, then after many have been told to leave, the few remaining are being told.

 

"Look around, you're the only one who thinks that"

 

I think you are wrong on that point. Over the years the community has played a large role on how guidlines are set. Some have caused guidelines to be set due to popular demand, and some by unpopular actions.

 

I believe Groundspeak has been very reactive to the wants of the community. By community, I don't mean just us here in the forums. We make up a very minority of cachers, and our opinions do not represent the majority.

 

As a matter of fact, the majority of cachers that I've met have never been in the forums and are quite happy with the game/sport/hobby that they play.

 

El Diablo

[+gof1]

I see. So you are complaining about people who tell posters to go play elsewhere? And you want me to shut up and go away? Is that correct?

 

gof it sounds like some one peed in your cheerios. In a couple of threads you seem unhappy.

 

I think we should all get together and give you a big group hug! Maybe you will feel better then.

 

El Diablo

 

Ok, so I can take a hint. While I think this whole topic is a crock of foul smelling refuse at least I listen to those who are trying to be reasonable.

 

So, with that I withdraw.

 

See you all again at the next match.

[+Sioneva]

This is the whine that never ends... it just goes on and on, my friends...

 

To call my topic a "Whine"...is that the same as calling me a "Whiner"?

 

<snip>

 

*thinks about it*

 

I suppose it is. If the shoe fits... anyway, I'm done.

Oh, I see...I didn't notice you were from Nebraska. I'm from California, so we are all Whiners out here. We weren't tough enough to cut it in NE, so we all came out this way.

 

 

Um, okay. If you say so. Actually, I'm from Vermont, so I must be extra tough.

Interesting location you list since you're from Vermont. I suppose you can't see

Um, okay. If you say so.

how I would think you were from Nebraska.

 

Actually, what I can't see is what difference it makes where the heck I'm from. But I guess it does to you, somehow. *shrug*

[+ReadyOrNot]

That's kinda the problem. "The Community" is not being allowed to voice opinions in the process of setting any guidelines.

 

Does anyone else find this ironic? He's posting in a forum, hosted on a server purchased by Groundspeak, inc. and voicing his opinion about the fact that people are not being allowed to voice their opinions.....

 

I remain extremely confused.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

That's kinda the problem. "The Community" is not being allowed to voice opinions in the process of setting any guidelines.

 

Does anyone else find this ironic? He's posting in a forum, hosted on a server purchased by Groundspeak, inc. and voicing his opinion about the fact that people are not being allowed to voice their opinions.....

 

I remain extremely confused.

Read again carefully...you may actually see what I said. Too bad there are so many here who only want to tell others to go away and selectivly read wrong meanings into what they say.

 

Yes, I am "...posting in a forum, hosted on a server purchased by Groundspeak, inc. and voicing his opinion..."

 

But the attempts to "voice opinions in the process of setting any guidelines." are all closed.

 

Read what you are quoting before you make some veiled attempt to ridicule someone who you disagree with.

[+mtn-man]

But the attempts to "voice opinions in the process of setting any guidelines." are all closed.

You are not talking about "any guidelines" here. Let's get real. You are talking about one thing.

 

The topic was 15 pages long. The opinions were heard. They were heard over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. The answers were given. You will not accept "no" as the answer. You continue to demand that "yes" was the answer. The topic was concluded pages before it was closed and the answer was going to remain "no". Everything that needed to be said was said. The topic was closed for that reason.

 

You cannot accept "no" as the answer. I am sorry, but in the real world, "no" happens. You need to accept this. Frankly, you are saying the same thing over and over and over and over... again. The community is saying this to you in this topic, but you won't listen.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

But the attempts to "voice opinions in the process of setting any guidelines." are all closed.

You are not talking about "any guidelines" here. Let's get real. You are talking about one thing.

 

The topic was 15 pages long. The opinions were heard. They were heard over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. The answers were given. You will not accept "no" as the answer. You continue to demand that "yes" was the answer. The topic was concluded pages before it was closed and the answer was going to remain "no". Everything that needed to be said was said. The topic was closed for that reason.

 

You cannot accept "no" as the answer. I am sorry, but in the real world, "no" happens. You need to accept this. Frankly, you are saying the same thing over and over and over and over... again. The community is saying this to you in this topic, but you won't listen.

I am not talking about that 15 page thread, but rather the seperate threads which posed questions spawned by comments in that one. they were seperate issues from the totatality of that 15 page thread.

 

I have not posed any questions which can be answered with yes or no, I began this topic in reply to those who say "go play somewhere else".

 

Oh, Oh, wait I just realized something...You guys are all right...What was I thinking? There's nothing at all wrong with telling people to beat it, and go play somewhere else.

 

If I pass 20 different people that all say the sky is green, I will say over and over and over and over that it is blue.

Edited April 9, 2008 by WRITE SHOP ROBERT

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

But the attempts to "voice opinions in the process of setting any guidelines." are all closed.

You are not talking about "any guidelines" here. Let's get real. You are talking about one thing.

 

The topic was 15 pages long. The opinions were heard. They were heard over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. The answers were given. You will not accept "no" as the answer. You continue to demand that "yes" was the answer. The topic was concluded pages before it was closed and the answer was going to remain "no". Everything that needed to be said was said. The topic was closed for that reason.

 

You cannot accept "no" as the answer. I am sorry, but in the real world, "no" happens. You need to accept this. Frankly, you are saying the same thing over and over and over and over... again. The community is saying this to you in this topic, but you won't listen.

I think what you mean is "everything that I wanted to hear has been said"

[Clan Riffster]

So I come here to bring up the idea that it is not a valid solution just to tell people to leave.

I agree with the underlying premise of your statement. Telling customers that come to you with a business suggestion to "like it or leave it" is typically not a good response. However, as you know, there is a lot more to the story, at least as I read it.

 

In the OP, someone complained because TPTB wanted their cache page changed to fit their perception of the guidelines. Several suggestions were made, and the cacher dismissed any of them that came from the folks who run the website, or from those cachers who agreed with the folks who run the website.

 

At that point, every workable option had already been discussed and summarily dismissed. At that point, telling a customer to "like it or leave it" is often the only viable solution left.

 

Groundspeak is saying, "These are our guidelines if you want to list your cache on our website. Sometimes we'll be flexible, but other times we will not. The decision of the appeals department is usually final."

 

The cacher is saying, "That's not good enough".

 

Whatcha gonna do?

 

From a business perspective, Groundspeak did everything within their (guidelines controlled) ability to make the customer happy. The customer refused their solutions. Their ain't much left at that point but like it or leave it.

 

I can't honestly imagine we need another 15 page angst filled thread to discuss this.

 

First round is on me.

Make mine a Guinness... room temperature!

 

That's kinda the problem. "The Community" is not being allowed to voice opinions in the process of setting any guidelines.

Robert, I gotta say, I disagree. We all know that Groundspeak is a business, and that, as a business, they will act in their best interest. I'm OK with that, as the end result is a better, stronger and faster site for me to utilize in my favorite obsession. However, I don't see them as handing down commandments from high on the mountain. Groundspeak does listen to its customers a great deal. You just have to understand that listening doesn't always equal complying. Just because they don't leap on every suggestion that rolls down the pike doesn't mean they don't hear you.

 

It's been my experience that the only time folks throw out words to the effect of, "If you don't like it, play somewhere else" is when a topic has been beaten to death and the side doing the complaining stops listening. Kinda like the aforementioned 15 page nightmare we dealt with recently. On a related note, from what I've seen, it's not the Moderators or Reviewers that use that phrase, it's the folks that happen to agree with their perspective on an issue.

 

(sorry about the spelling)

 

-Sean

Edited April 9, 2008 by Clan Riffster

[+Totem Clan]

Robert you never answered my question.

 

I'm honestly trying to understand your perspective on this. It seems that you are upset because you feel you are being told what to do and you don't like that. Is that the case?

[+mtn-man]

If I pass 20 different people that all say the sky is green, I will say over and over and over and over that it is blue.

Actually, we are saying the sky is blue. You are the one saying it is green.

[+mtn-man]

I think what you mean is "everything that I wanted to hear has been said"

Um, no. I mean exactly what I say. Geez, I read all of the topics. That should be obvious. I comprehended them very well, thank you. I disagree with the premise that you and a minority of others are putting forth. Is that so hard for you to comprehend?

 

To that end, Clan Riffster sums it up exceptionally well...

 

That's kinda the problem. "The Community" is not being allowed to voice opinions in the process of setting any guidelines.

Robert, I gotta say, I disagree. We all know that Groundspeak is a business, and that, as a business, they will act in their best interest. I'm OK with that, as the end result is a better, stronger and faster site for me to utilize in my favorite obsession. However, I don't see them as handing down commandments from high on the mountain. Groundspeak does listen to its customers a great deal. You just have to understand that listening doesn't always equal complying. Just because they don't leap on every suggestion that rolls down the pike doesn't mean they don't hear you.

 

It's been my experience that the only time folks throw out words to the effect of, "If you don't like it, play somewhere else" is when a topic has been beaten to death and the side doing the complaining stops listening. Kinda like the aforementioned 15 page nightmare we dealt with recently. On a related note, from what I've seen, it's not the Moderators or Reviewers that use that phrase, it's the folks that happen to agree with their perspective on an issue.

Your second round is on me.

[+Mule Ears]

On topic, I was actually hoping that Geocaching was in fact more a "game" than a "community." Most of the fun I've gotten has been from the "game" aspect, most of the grief from the "community" aspect.

[+Renegade Knight]

But the attempts to "voice opinions in the process of setting any guidelines." are all closed.

You are not talking about "any guidelines" here. Let's get real. You are talking about one thing. ...

 

He's talking about forum whack a mole with "go get your own site" or "go somewhere else and play" as the mallet to more than a few things that concerned cacher owners post about.

 

Geocaching is a community more than I ever thought it could be. Those with the whack a mole mentality though are not community building folks. I think that was the gist of his orginal post.

[+Renegade Knight]

On topic, I was actually hoping that Geocaching was in fact more a "game" than a "community." Most of the fun I've gotten has been from the "game" aspect, most of the grief from the "community" aspect.

 

When I first started I like the fact that I could go hunt a cache on my own with nobody else except my friends and family. What suprised me was that over time in reading the logs there were people out there like me who enjoyed the same thing. I'd be following them one day or they would be following me one day. Then the first event was held. I hate events. I had fun anyway. They were good people. This all was strange. Community from a solitary activity? Yet there it is.

 

Given5 min with my worst detractor in the forums and the odds are we would get past the forum BS and have some fun, or at least be civil. Case in point. Look at some of of the debates between El Diablo and I. Recently I've spoken with the guy on the phone on some caching things. No sparks, no fire, no war. Our interests still diverge a bit, but not so much we couldn't have a conversation to realize that, and keep the door open for other things.

Edited April 9, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+TrailGators]

On topic, I was actually hoping that Geocaching was in fact more a "game" than a "community." Most of the fun I've gotten has been from the "game" aspect, most of the grief from the "community" aspect.

 

When I first started I like the fact that I could go hunt a cache on my own with nobody else except my friends and family. What suprised me was that over time in reading the logs there were people out there like me who enjoyed the same thing. I'd be following them one day or they would be following me one day. Then the first event was held. I hate events. I had fun anyway. They were good people. This all was strange. Community from a solitary activity? Yet there it is.

 

Given5 min with my worst detractor in the forums and the odds are we would get past the forum BS and have some fun, or at least be civil. Case in point. Look at some of of the debates between El Diablo and I. Recently I've spoken with the guy on the phone on some caching things. No sparks, no fire, no war. Our interests still diverge a bit, but not so much we couldn't have a conversation to realize that, and keep the door open for other things.

I feel the same way. I think a lot of people read into things in these threads because they can't see the smile on your face or hear yuor tone of voice.

[+SeventhSon]

If I pass 20 different people that all say the sky is green, I will say over and over and over and over that it is blue.

Actually, we are saying the sky is blue. You are the one saying it is green.

 

What's popular is not always right. What's right is not always popular.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

But the attempts to "voice opinions in the process of setting any guidelines." are all closed.

You are not talking about "any guidelines" here. Let's get real. You are talking about one thing. ...

 

He's talking about forum whack a mole with "go get your own site" or "go somewhere else and play" as the mallet to more than a few things that concerned cacher owners post about.

 

Geocaching is a community more than I ever thought it could be. Those with the whack a mole mentality though are not community building folks. I think that was the gist of his orginal post.

Yes, that is what I was talking about. So maybe if the idea was posted in the form of a question...

 

Is Geocaching just a game, or is it a Community.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

If I pass 20 different people that all say the sky is green, I will say over and over and over and over that it is blue.

Actually, we are saying the sky is blue. You are the one saying it is green.

Well, either way, my point wasn't to say that it's green or blue, simply to point out that if I keep repeating myself, that is in reply to those who seem to misunderstand what I am saying. As far as me being out of step with "The Community" while it's clear that I am out of step with many in this thread most of those who I am instep with are not active in this thread.

 

so in other words...now that many who are instep with me have been told so many times to go play elsewhere and have given up, I'm being told "look around you, you're the only one who thinks that" But congratulations, I've grown tired of it too, so now that you have my lunch money, why don't you all go celebrate and use it to buy yourselves a round. Please close the thread, I will open a new topic posing my original question as just that...a question.

[+Thrak]

I can almost hear it from where I'm sitting............. Plonk, plonk, plonk, plonk, plonk.....................

[+mtn-man]

But the attempts to "voice opinions in the process of setting any guidelines." are all closed.

You are not talking about "any guidelines" here. Let's get real. You are talking about one thing. ...

 

He's talking about forum whack a mole with "go get your own site" or "go somewhere else and play" as the mallet to more than a few things that concerned cacher owners post about.

 

Geocaching is a community more than I ever thought it could be. Those with the whack a mole mentality though are not community building folks. I think that was the gist of his orginal post.

Yes, that is what I was talking about. So maybe if the idea was posted in the form of a question...

 

Is Geocaching just a game, or is it a Community.

OK, I can work with that. It is both as it exist today. It is a game that can be played by an individual and they can remain an island unto themselves and exist within the game and enjoy the game perfectly fine *or* it can be played as a part of a larger community and you can enjoy the community aspect of the game. Both work perfectly.

 

Now, what's the point of this topic? (Seriously.) If you can bring us to the point, that might help.

 

 

In case it is the "whack a mole" concept posted by RK, I would like an answer to a question...

 

It has been well established that the community can suggest ideas that this particular geocaching site might incorporate. It has also been well established that this site as a corporation does not have to implement these suggestions unless the corporation chooses to do so. If the corporation says "No, we don't want to do that in that way, but thanks for the suggestion", what do you suggest that you tell someone who keeps saying "But I want it anyway"?

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

But the attempts to "voice opinions in the process of setting any guidelines." are all closed.

You are not talking about "any guidelines" here. Let's get real. You are talking about one thing. ...

 

He's talking about forum whack a mole with "go get your own site" or "go somewhere else and play" as the mallet to more than a few things that concerned cacher owners post about.

 

Geocaching is a community more than I ever thought it could be. Those with the whack a mole mentality though are not community building folks. I think that was the gist of his orginal post.

Yes, that is what I was talking about. So maybe if the idea was posted in the form of a question...

 

Is Geocaching just a game, or is it a Community.

OK, I can work with that. It is both as it exist today. It is a game that can be played by an individual and they can remain an island unto themselves and exist within the game and enjoy the game perfectly fine *or* it can be played as a part of a larger community and you can enjoy the community aspect of the game. Both work perfectly.

 

Now, what's the point of this topic? (Seriously.) If you can bring us to the point, that might help.

 

 

In case it is the "whack a mole" concept posted by RK, I would like an answer to a question...

 

It has been well established that the community can suggest ideas that this particular geocaching site might incorporate. It has also been well established that this site as a corporation does not have to implement these suggestions unless the corporation chooses to do so. If the corporation says "No, we don't want to do that in that way, but thanks for the suggestion", what do you suggest that you tell someone who keeps saying "But I want it anyway"?

To try once again to explain my point would just add another "and over" to the list. To see my point one can read carefully what I have said in the previous "and over"s.

 

I've opened a new thread with the point posed as a question, with the hopes of steering the question to a more civil tone and invite a broader array of responders, I'm only asking for answers to that question, not arguements. I think that thread will better serve my point. I am not trying to plonk, troll, mole, or any of whatever those other things are.

[+mtn-man]

I would actually like a clear answer. In addition, would you answer my question in the second part please?

 

After you do, can this topic be closed?

Edited April 9, 2008 by mtn-man

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I can almost hear it from where I'm sitting............. Plonk, plonk, plonk, plonk, plonk.....................

I'm not an expert at internet forums. this is the only one I go to. I have asked that this thread be closed and have brought up one idea from here as a question posed as a simple question. I don't know what a plonk is.

 

I've now been accused of Plonking, Trolling, Bumping. I'm just trying to carry on a conversation. If one reads the quesyion in my new topic, one will see that it is clearly stated in a manner which hopes to steer the responses to that question AWAY from the topics in this thread.

[+ReadyOrNot]

I fear we will not get an answer to the question... This whole thing reminds me of what I will be going home to this evening.. A 12 year old son.

 

SON: Can I stay up late tonight?

DAD: No, you need to go to bed at the normal time

SON: But you get to stay up late

DAD: That's different, because I'm an adult

SON: Well, why can't I stay up late

DAD: Because I said so.

SON: Well, that's not an answer, I want a reason

DAD: Because I said so.

SON: That's stupid. I should be able to stay up late

DAD: If you keep bugging me, I'm going to make you go to bed early

SON: You're not answering my question

DAD: Ok, go to bed NOW

SON: That's not fair, Tyler gets to stay up later than me (his sibling)

DAD: Tyler isn't out here bugging me

SON: This isn't fair. Mom!! Dad isn't being fair

MOM: Listen to your father

SON: You both hate me!

 

Anyone else experience this, or is it just me? I.B.L!!!!!!!

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I would actually like a clear answer. In addition, would you answer my question in the second part please?

 

After you do, can this topic be closed?

 

I would love for this topic to be closed, and for my new question to stay open. Hopefully we will see a broad variety of new replies which will steer us away from the bickering on this thread.

 

My point was simply that: to tell a group of people they should just move away or start their own town is not an appropriate solution to someone asking a law to change, or be explained.

 

As for the second part,

 

"It has been well established that the community can suggest ideas that this particular geocaching site might incorporate. It has also been well established that this site as a corporation does not have to implement these suggestions unless the corporation chooses to do so. If the corporation says "No, we don't want to do that in that way, but thanks for the suggestion", what do you suggest that you tell someone who keeps saying "But I want it anyway"?"

 

I think you are hinting at the discussions in the infamous "other thread". After being told "No, we don't want to do that in that way, but thanks for the suggestion", When that person decides to go out into the community and see if there are others that feel the same way as them, is the point they were told to "go play somewhere else" in fact that statement seems directed at any and all who sopport their ideas.

 

I hope that answers the question, because I gotta het on the road now. Looking forward to seeing peoples answers to my other thread.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

I fear we will not get an answer to the question... This whole thing reminds me of what I will be going home to this evening.. A 12 year old son.

 

SON: Can I stay up late tonight?

DAD: No, you need to go to bed at the normal time

SON: But you get to stay up late

DAD: That's different, because I'm an adult

SON: Well, why can't I stay up late

DAD: Because I said so.

SON: Well, that's not an answer, I want a reason

DAD: Because I said so.

SON: That's stupid. I should be able to stay up late

DAD: If you keep bugging me, I'm going to make you go to bed early

SON: You're not answering my question

DAD: Ok, go to bed NOW

SON: That's not fair, Tyler gets to stay up later than me (his sibling)

DAD: Tyler isn't out here bugging me

SON: This isn't fair. Mom!! Dad isn't being fair

MOM: Listen to your father

SON: You both hate me!

 

Anyone else experience this, or is it just me? I.B.L!!!!!!!

Hey, let's make someone out to be a child because they type slowly, and I can make fun of them befire they are even done speaking. By the way you're not my real daddy anyway.

[+ReadyOrNot]

When that person decides to go out into the community and see if there are others that feel the same way as them, is the point they were told to "go play somewhere else" in fact that statement seems directed at any and all who sopport their ideas.

 

Groundspeak told them "No". The community told them "No"... All avenues were exhausted, but that still wasn't good enough.. "Go play somewhere else" is an appropriate response to someone who refuses to accept "No" for an answer..

[+ReadyOrNot]

I fear we will not get an answer to the question... This whole thing reminds me of what I will be going home to this evening.. A 12 year old son.

 

SON: Can I stay up late tonight?

DAD: No, you need to go to bed at the normal time

SON: But you get to stay up late

DAD: That's different, because I'm an adult

SON: Well, why can't I stay up late

DAD: Because I said so.

SON: Well, that's not an answer, I want a reason

DAD: Because I said so.

SON: That's stupid. I should be able to stay up late

DAD: If you keep bugging me, I'm going to make you go to bed early

SON: You're not answering my question

DAD: Ok, go to bed NOW

SON: That's not fair, Tyler gets to stay up later than me (his sibling)

DAD: Tyler isn't out here bugging me

SON: This isn't fair. Mom!! Dad isn't being fair

MOM: Listen to your father

SON: You both hate me!

 

Anyone else experience this, or is it just me? I.B.L!!!!!!!

Hey, let's make someone out to be a child because they type slowly, and I can make fun of them befire they are even done speaking. By the way you're not my real daddy anyway.

 

I'm not even referring to you DUDE... Isn't this all about the lady from the *other* thread that refused to take NO for an answer... Are you the same person? I'm confused..

[+sbell111]

That's the biggest problem with this thread. The rant simply isn't clear enough.

[+mtn-man]

You did not answer my question at all. My question was...

 

If the corporation says "No, we don't want to do that in that way, but thanks for the suggestion", what do you suggest that you tell someone who keeps saying "But I want it anyway"?

You keep telling us what the unacceptable answer is. Tell us what the acceptable answer is. Make it clear for us that want to know how to say it correctly.

[+Totem Clan]

WRITE SHOP ROBERT why won't you answer my question? This is the third time I've asked it. Are you avoiding it? Because I'm trying to see this from your perspective. If you would answer me, maybe I could.

 

I'm honestly trying to understand your perspective on this. It seems that you are upset because you feel you are being told what to do and you don't like that. Is that the case?

[+mtn-man]

[+Renegade Knight]

... If the corporation says "No, we don't want to do that in that way, but thanks for the suggestion", what do you suggest that you tell someone who keeps saying "But I want it anyway"?

 

You tell them. Ok, here is your off topic forum.

 

Seriously. There is give and take. I champion owner causes. Most all of my posts though support new owners with an old problem we have all heard before. Most all of the site supporting posts are in responce to the new owner's well worn problem. I know that a change is the exception, the new owner doesn't. They learn they are not alone in their thinking. Perhaps on occasion we will get a change in site thinking. Maybe not. It's understood that you have to keep putting pressure on the things worth fixing if you think it's worth it. It's also understood that the odds are it won't change. That's how we all can post and not lose sleep.

 

Every now and then something does change. The off topic champions got their forum. The the cache has to be a box champions got Waymarking to move all those non box chaces too. These were both after years of waiting.

 

So what do you tell them? Same thing you told them last time, and the time before or like this sites key players do don't say much at all to anyone. Others will dig up the old post and say "it hasn't changed".

[+mtn-man]

RK, you still haven't answered the question. Are you suggesting that we say "just wait around and you might get it"? Frankly, that one has been done already. It obviously isn't an acceptable answer.

 

What answer other than "go play somewhere else" is the answer that these people should be given? It is a very clear question.

 

This is what WRITE SHOP ROBERT said:

After being told "No, we don't want to do that in that way, but thanks for the suggestion", When that person decides to go out into the community and see if there are others that feel the same way as them, is the point they were told to "go play somewhere else" in fact that statement seems directed at any and all who sopport their ideas.

 

WRITE SHOP ROBERT seems to have this all figured out. Those that say "go play somewhere else" within the community probably would like to know so they can address this concern that WSR brought up better.

 

I have a point here, and it is probably pretty obvious what it is. I am still waiting for *his* answer to my question.

 

So is Totem Clan, in addition, by the way.

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Well, this is the first internet access I've gotten since my post yesterday afternoon, so if you're waiting, please be patient until I have more time to reply. I've already used the thirty minutes I have to spend checking my email, and might get to a coffe shop where I can reply to your questions.