+Delta68 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Here's the story: An event was organised for 13:00 at a pub. A 'group walk' was organised for the same day at 09:00 taking in several existing caches and five new ones. Having kids means we're not keen on caching in large groups/handing round of the box, as son and daughter enjoy the search themselves. That's part of the fun of geocaching. Adding the fact that we had already done all the existing caches in the area, we decided to do a shorter 3.5 mile walk taking in four of the new ones but still starting at approx 09:00. The log note prior to the event suggested that there was going to be Alternative short walk available for those who do not want to do the full walk. There was no sign of the shorter walk so we just invented own The five new caches were published the evening before so basically anyone could have gone and found them. We happened to be FTF of three and this seems to have totally ruined it for the main group of walkers. These logs were taken from two of the caches. Oh, and we NEVER claimed that "9am was far too early to go walking" We actually said "We're hoping to attend but probably won't be there for the 9am start" We were somewhat aggrieved at this Cache to discover that certain people had felt the need (despite claiming that 9am was far too early to go walking!) to come and claim the FTF...in future we won't rely on others 'playing the game' so if you can't cope with a little social interaction (which is the point of group Caching) we wont give you the opportunity to prove your superiority (if that's what lots of FTFs proves...) either! Caches will be released on paper at the event and not before (as is traditional for events) It's really a shame the rest of us will have to enter co-ords on-site in future, but if that's what it takes to ensure the majority are able to enjoy themselves then that's the action we'll take. Ok, so on a group Caching expedition there ARE no FTFs...but then, who's counting...? / end of rant This was logged by an FTFer on one of the caches: A rather naughty FTF :-) :-) :-) but on the Twixmas bash I was always at the back and never got the chance to "find" anything for myself so I got up at 5.45 am (or so I thought - I'd forgotten the clocks had gone forward!) to make sure I got at least one FTF. Good job I did as Delta 68 grabbed all the others and didn't even come on the walk!! I could easily have gone for a 2nd FTF but restrained myself as I felt sure this would have been breaking 'geocaching etiquette'. Obviously not everyone feels the same way! Link to comment
+Jonovich Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 (edited) Since officially you cannot have an event to go caching, I consider it quite cheeky for anyone to have a moan about your caching activities whilst they are on an event to go caching! J Edited April 7, 2008 by Dakar4x4 Link to comment
ljay Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 HMMMM. I would say that the FTF on the 2nd log was the rude cacher. Family caching is about keeping the kids amused so there is nothing amusing for your kids in doing a walk on which they would have been getting to find caches they have already done. Not sure what age the kids are but i can imagine what would have been said about them if they had run ahead of the group and were standing with the box in hand when everyone else got the GZ. I cache with my Dad, sometimes mum will tag along. Mum and I got FTF on 2 caches late last summer, dad and i were passing a few weeks ago after getting some others and decided to stop and let dad get the 2 we had previously found. There is nothing more frustrating than standing about watching someone trying to find a cache when you can see it cos you know where it is. If it were me i would not have wanted to do the long walk either. They were live caches you did nothing wrong. You obviously don't live near a FTF hound though as if you did they would all have been found before you even got up that morning It is a game and everyone plays it differently, i like to cache with other people but i can't imagine 20 of us looking for 1 cache is any fun! Happy Caching Ljay Link to comment
+currykev Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 As a self appointed caching officer (see profile) I would say that as soon as ANY cache is published it's "fair game" for all! Link to comment
+melmur Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Some people really need to get a life. Link to comment
+Bill D (wwh) Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I certainly don't think you did anything wrong. Once a cache is published it's open to all. The caches were published and you went out and found them. In some areas the FTF would have happened the previous evening, and there would have been a string of logs from would-be FTFs by the time the group walk got there. Link to comment
+Delta68 Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 Son and daughter are 14 and 12 respectively. Although they are quite grown up, it would have been unfair to expect them to spend three to four hours walking in the company of a group of adults they barely know. Although we feel our reasons for not wanting to do a group ramble are valid, not one person bothered to ask us when we met them later at the event. Needless to say, we were quite surprised at the ferocity of the comments on the cache logs. Even more bizarrely, we also nipped out to do yet another cache which was set two days earlier and we were FTF on that one as well! Link to comment
+HazelS Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Oh lord... sounds like the people who wrote the logs - and NO, I don't know who they are, need to get a life!! ANY cache is fair game to ANYONE that is bothered about going out and getting it. I know people who put out caches for camping events, and the locals snaffle the FTF's - who cares??? So what?? lol At the end of the day, you went to the cache, found it and claimed FTF. I have no problem with that, what I have a problem with is the rudeness and the absolute gaul those 2 cachers who wrote the logs have to make accusations and to be that nasty. Sometimes, some people are best reminded that it's a hunt for a plastic box in the woods... not life or death, and nobody died. they should GET OVER IT!!!! (/me ducks and runs and goes to investigate who wrote the logs to see if she should buy body armour for the camping events coming up!!!) Link to comment
+Alibags Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 NO, you were not in the wrong. I would ignore the above logs, it says more about them than it does about you. If event organisers want to keep some caches back specially for event attendees, then they can always hand out cache sheets at the event and then ask the reviewers for the caches to go live later. Link to comment
+reddeeps Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I dont post here often, but OMG, surely this isnt what caching is about. There shouldn't be politics involved, I dont go to event caches as we do it just as a family activity, so I dont even read event logs. Surely if it is published then anyone can go get it. Please lets not ruin caching by being stupid, so what if they got ftf, does it really matter, nobody died! Link to comment
+Cushie Butterfield Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 It's all been said, if they are that sort of people you wouldn't ever want to go on a group walk with them anyway would you? They would have been found overnight if they were in our area. Link to comment
+The Bongtwashes Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Congratulations on getting the FTFs, if it had been around here they would all have been found the previous night! If people want to save the FTF for someone attending an event they should hand out paper sheets or enable downloads at the event. Otherwise they should accept that the information is in the public domain, and so anyone who opens a GC.com account can go along and find them first. It seems to me that they are the ones who are bothered about the numbers if they're so aggrieved. Link to comment
+kennamatic Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 The Bongtwashes have just made a point I was going to. What has put "their" noses out is that they wanted to keep the FTF for themselves. Geocaching, for those involved through geocaching.com is a community event and that means for the thousands across the world who participate, not a very small group who attend an event. I think that makes the thousand of individual and team cachers "the majority", not the people at an event. And as Dakar said earlier, you can't hold an event with the purpose of going caching. By complaining they hang themselves from their own petard, as they say, the event was obviously for the puropse of caching, not for going on a hike. Link to comment
+Alibags Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 [nit pick] That's hoist by their own petard, as a petard is a bomb designed to blow the doors of beseiged castles, etc. The phrase means to be blow up by your own bomb [/nit pick] Around these parts, as the Bongtwashes say, you have to be pretty canny and come out with various wheezes to stop Bob getting FTF on ever newly published cache or learn to chill out and let the Bongtwash have his fun! However, once the cache page goes live, it's fair game from then onwards... Link to comment
+HazelS Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 LOl.. I'm with you on FTF's... Here, if I wanted to ensure that the FTF went at the event, I'd have to go round to Philpamandrob's house and tie him to the chair, have the caches published and then get to the event. Phil has been known to be out ALL night FTFing before work the next day... and if Phil doesn't get there, then USNU or Ac-p will! The general rule of thumb has to be: If you want someone at the event to get FTF... print out cache sheets, hand them out to EVERYONE (not just your mates!) and then have the event published later that day. Link to comment
+Delta68 Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 Thanks for the replies and it's reassuring to know that the rules hadn't changed. I must admit that the comments (there were one or two more as well) did put a bit of a dampener on things for us but it's nice the see that on the whole the geocaching community are still a friendly bunch and competitive in a light-hearted way. Link to comment
fraggle69 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 It's a bit bloody stupid to think that if your caches are activated before time that cachers are gonna wait till you want them to go find them. I alway give printouts at my events if I've hidden any caches, no complaints yet! I do it to irritate people who don't like putting the digits in their GPSr manually Nah really I do it because its my way of saying ta for coming to the event, you can have first shot at FTF! I know that the moment I hide a cache round these parts, there isn't a herd of wild horses that would prevent the usual suspects grabbing it within 24hrs, well normally a hell of a lot faster than that. No big deal, it's just a game! Enjoy and celebrate your FTF's and kick yerself for not getting them all! You're right, they're wrong! Happy Caching! Link to comment
+Jonovich Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I alway give printouts at my events if I've hidden any caches, no complaints yet! Ohh... Does this mean as well as FTF's there are also FTFUC's to be had by people attending events. Can I pass cache printouts of my caches to friends so they can get a FTFUC before I get them published as well? J ( FTFUC - First To Find Unpublished Cache ) Link to comment
+Mad H@ter Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 We weren't expecting someone not on the walk to get here first as it was placed explicitly for the walk. Note: My hi-lighting Think this say's it all!! You did nothing wrong, they were published, in the public domain, so fair game to all. Well done on your FTF's Link to comment
+Alice Band Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Sounds like a serious case of sour grapes to me. Ignore them, as a published cache is there for anyone I've seen a couple of Nottingham cachers moan on logs when a TB is taken by a non-nottingham cacher. Some people really need to get a life! Link to comment
+Stuey Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 (edited) haha, that's quite funny! A plot to make sure that only a select bunch of cachers had a FTF handed to them on a plate backfired. What's the point in a FTF being handed to you on a plate? It's not the same as a "proper" FTF is it? As everyone else has said, you did nothing wrong. Edited April 7, 2008 by Stuey Link to comment
+kennamatic Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 [nit pick] That's hoist by their own petard, as a petard is a bomb designed to blow the doors of beseiged castles, etc. The phrase means to be blow up by your own bomb [/nit pick] Of course it's hoist, I was obviously having a funny 5 minutes. To nit pick slightly further, is the petard not just the launching equipment for the bomb, and thus, if you did not get out of the way on putting it in place, you were "launched" or hoist(ed) with it. I haven't googled it so I am relying on a very old brain to remember! Link to comment
+Skate and Jane Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I agree you did nothing wrong. This does raise an issue though. Should attendees of an event have the right to be the only cachers able to be first to find of a new cache? If you chose not to attend an event you are being prevented from having the chance even though events are not supposed to be for finding caches. Link to comment
fraggle69 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 It's up to the cache owner! Link to comment
+keehotee Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Just read the cache page and the log - doesn't seem to be anything on the page to suggest that it was placed specifically for people on the walk (and wouldn't that be against the rules anyway?) - and the offensive logger, well, she really should get a life...... Link to comment
+Bear and Ragged Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 The caches were published. Open to all. (Even someone not going to the event at the pub.) Ok, so on a group Caching expedition there ARE no FTFs...but then, who's counting...? Don't publish them until after the event. -Ooo they don't count as "Defiled caches" on GeocacheUK, if published the day after! Now whose after numbers! G Link to comment
+mongoose39uk Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 (edited) [nit pick] That's hoist by their own petard, as a petard is a bomb designed to blow the doors of beseiged castles, etc. The phrase means to be blow up by your own bomb [/nit pick] Of course it's hoist, I was obviously having a funny 5 minutes. To nit pick slightly further, is the petard not just the launching equipment for the bomb, and thus, if you did not get out of the way on putting it in place, you were "launched" or hoist(ed) with it. I haven't googled it so I am relying on a very old brain to remember! Nah, some poor bu__ger lit it, ran up to the door and attached it, meanwhile getting fired on by both sides. If they were still alive when they got there the chances were probably pretty good it would blow up and take them with it. Edit to say No the OP did nowt wrong. Edited April 7, 2008 by mongoose39uk Link to comment
fraggle69 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 what's a burger got to do with it? Link to comment
+currykev Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 If I ever go to another event..(they're always fun and you meet some great people)I'll make sure I arrive 1 day earlier than everyone one else! Link to comment
fraggle69 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 And I'll be there one day earlier than you! Link to comment
+Bill D (wwh) Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 fraggle69 wrote:what's a burger got to do with it? The lunch in the pub afterwards perhaps...? Link to comment
fraggle69 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Not if they're gonna moan at me for getting FTF! Link to comment
+Jan and the Percey Boys Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 And I'll be there one day earlier than you! and as Hazel said Phil will still get to it first Link to comment
+schnarff Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 As the organiser of the event in question whilst I do not want to get into this debate I would like to remind everyone that there are two sides to every story and therefore perhaps people should not be so quick to judge based on snippets of information that are provided. Happy Caching Schnarff Link to comment
+Simply Paul Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I'm curious about the other side of the story. Anyone else? Based on what I've read so far, the caches had been published, and that means they're free for all. I suppose you could put a request on each page to ask cachers not doing the walk to avoid them, but I really can't see how a setter can insist that only an organised group get the FTFs... I'm making no judgements here, I'm just commenting on the situation as it's been presented. Shame it's come to this, but the original posters were clearly unimpressed with the comments received. Link to comment
+mongoose39uk Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 As the organiser of the event in question whilst I do not want to get into this debate I would like to remind everyone that there are two sides to every story and therefore perhaps people should not be so quick to judge based on snippets of information that are provided. Happy Caching Schnarff Care to enlighten us then. Seems pretty clear cut at the mo. Link to comment
+mongoose39uk Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 As the organiser of the event in question whilst I do not want to get into this debate I would like to remind everyone that there are two sides to every story and therefore perhaps people should not be so quick to judge based on snippets of information that are provided. Happy Caching Schnarff Care to enlighten us then. Seems pretty clear cut at the mo. Link to comment
+Mad H@ter Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 As the organiser of the event in question whilst I do not want to get into this debate I would like to remind everyone that there are two sides to every story and therefore perhaps people should not be so quick to judge based on snippets of information that are provided. Happy Caching Schnarff and Link to comment
+Birdman-of-liskatraz Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Having just run an event here in Cornwall, I put out two new caches for the event and one was published the evening before - the other in the morning of the event. It's not impossible that an "non-event" person could have FTF'd - as it happens both were found by event attenders - but I wouldn't have been bothered in the slightest if a non event attender - got them first. Published = available for everyone. Link to comment
+rutson Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Tony and John beat me to it! Published cache = available cache. Would very much like to hear "the other side of the story"... Link to comment
+HazelS Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 As the organiser of the event in question whilst I do not want to get into this debate I would like to remind everyone that there are two sides to every story and therefore perhaps people should not be so quick to judge based on snippets of information that are provided. Happy Caching Schnarff My, my... those grapes DO seem a little sour. Link to comment
+Beds Clangers Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Have to agree, published cache free for anyone Every body looks for caches for their own reasons, I cache to WASTE TIME I "flit" all over the UK so will do a PQ in the morning for the area I'm working in. If I have time I'll go for any local caches and may get a FTF, miles from home as I'm usually about quite early, say before 06:00 a.m. I would have no knowledge of an "event" in the area as I only do PQs on local trads/virtuals. Rarely have time for anything but trads so usually just go for them Just saying that if you set specific caches for an event, can't you disable/postpone the "publishing" until you want them to be active In case I pop in an "event" area, this week I'm in Cumbria, down to Stafford, home for weekend, HOPEFULLY, next week I'm all over Suffolk/Essex, you've been warned Cheers Nick Link to comment
+Gushoneybun Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 I see you have done nothing wrong. So well done on your FTF's Like Beds Clangers I travel a lot, so run a PQ for the area I am going to be in just for 'easy' traditionals, virtuals and webcams. Sometimes I do not run the PQ and finish work a bit early, so look a few up on the way home before leaving work. I have grabbed three FTF's on my way home in this way (and a DNF) including one only 13miles from home, shame I was 245 miles away at the time 245miles for an FTF!. If they are published go for them I say. I to would like to hear the other side! Link to comment
+schnarff Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 no sour grapes on my part at all HazelS - my event but not my logs or opinons questioned here hence my statement not wanting to get involved with the debate. Link to comment
+mongoose39uk Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 There is no debate, only one side has been put. Still waiting. Link to comment
+HazelS Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 no sour grapes on my part at all HazelS - my event but not my logs or opinons questioned here hence my statement not wanting to get involved with the debate. Maybe not in your name, but in the name of your partner.... It WOULD be most helpful to have both sides of the story, like you say. Until we know more, we are bound to make judgements on the information available. Link to comment
+HazelS Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 (edited) Grrr - double post Edited April 7, 2008 by HazelS Link to comment
+Alibags Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 [nit pick] That's hoist by their own petard, as a petard is a bomb designed to blow the doors of beseiged castles, etc. The phrase means to be blow up by your own bomb [/nit pick] Of course it's hoist, I was obviously having a funny 5 minutes. To nit pick slightly further, is the petard not just the launching equipment for the bomb, and thus, if you did not get out of the way on putting it in place, you were "launched" or hoist(ed) with it. I haven't googled it so I am relying on a very old brain to remember! I hope your old brain does not remember back that far, as the petard is a 17th Century item (probably earlier). It was a container, often bell shaped, containing an explosive charge, that was attached to the fortress door and the then the explosion all went out of the open end and into the door. It was not launched. Luckily, I only have to remember back to last summer for full recall of the 17th C Link to comment
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