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Roadside marker searches from major roads


Papa-Bear-NYC

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Here's a question addressed to the pros (surveyors and experienced hunters):

 

There's a few marks I'm interested in for which the only access is from a major highway (limited access divided highway). Assume for this discussion that the land adjacent to the highway is not off limits (park land, state forest, etc. i.e NOT a private property issue) and that I would be out of sight for the duration of my search (30 - 60 minutes). And assume my vehicle would be WELL off the pavement on the grass. Assume also I could do the work during off hours (Sunday morning, etc.). The question is what, if anything, should I do in terms of asking/telling the police (highway patrol, whatever) of what I'm doing?

 

> Just park on the margin, do your thing and move on?

> Leave a sign on the wind shield? What kind of sign?

> Contact the police/highway patrol in advance to ask/notify them?

> Go to the police/highway patrol HQ and get permission?

> What do those goody-goodies who pick up trash do?

> Is there an established protocol for this sort of thing? Are these things published?

 

What do surveyors do when they have a job requiring this type of access? (Not working ON the road, but on land off to the side).

Edited by Papa-Bear-NYC
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I did a lot of benchmarks along US 50 which is 4 lane divided but not interstate. I pulled over as far as I could off the road. I had one person stop and ask if I needed help and a Deputy hit his siren and asked if I needed help. He didn't stop but kept driving after I said I was OK. I stopped once along I-79 to look for a cache on the other side of a mountain. I pulled off and backed in behind the guardrail. I was gone for several hours. The car was still there undisturbed when I got back.

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Here's a question addressed to the pros (surveyors and experienced hunters):

 

There's a few marks I'm interested in for which the only access is from a major highway (limited access divided highway). Assume for this discussion that the land adjacent to the highway is not off limits (park land, state forest, etc. i.e NOT a private property issue) and that I would be out of sight for the duration of my search (30 - 60 minutes). And assume my vehicle would be WELL off the pavement on the grass. Assume also I could do the work during off hours (Sunday morning, etc.). The question is what, if anything, should I do in terms of asking/telling the police (highway patrol, whatever) of what I'm doing?

 

> Just park on the margin, do your thing and move on?

> Leave a sign on the wind shield? What kind of sign?

> Contact the police/highway patrol in advance to ask/notify them?

> Go to the police/highway patrol HQ and get permission?

> What do those goody-goodies who pick up trash do?

> Is there an established protocol for this sort of thing? Are these things published?

 

What do surveyors do when they have a job requiring this type of access? (Not working ON the road, but on land off to the side).

 

Do you need permission to be on that stretch of road with your vehicle? If not, then why would you need permission to pull off the roadway and park in a safe place?

 

Most areas out here will wait 24 hours before putting a RED warning sticker on the windows, then after a varied amount of time the vehicle will be towed.

 

We just find a good spot to park the vehicle and go find the benchmarks. On rare occasions we have had police stop and ask if we needed help, but more often they just drive right on by. If we are near the vehicle and they see us, they just wave as they go past.

 

Be sure to NOT put a sign on the dash or in the window saying you will be back shortly. Burglars just love that kind of invite!

 

Unless there is a sign saying No Parking then it is fair game and legal to be there.

 

John

Edited by 2oldfarts (the rockhounders)
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Uh Oh... having just said on another thread that I'm seldom succinct... I'll try to be brief here.

 

Prior remarks are right on. However, if it's any kind of busy highway make sure you're waaaaay off the side of the road. Use your vehicle as a barrier to oncoming traffic. Wear an orange or lime-green vest (reflective if it's night time). The pros in our state have to put out 4'x4' advance warning signs (shoulder work etc), wear the reflective safety vests, & a hard hat too. Can't be too safe - and next week is National Work Zone Safety Week (watch highway construction zones - especially in bigger cities - the police will be doing a 'push' on double-fine enforcement in Work Zones). I work for a sign company that specializes in the highway work - we even block lanes next to our work zones etc.

 

Having said that, I travel (in state or out of state) with a pair of reflective vests. Makes great camo for your work. No one gives a second thought to seeing a person off the side of the road with tools, clip board, and orange vest... I've never had an LEO interaction dressed like that. No one's stopped to sign me up for a fashion photo shoot either (but my wife's delighted that no one's run me over yet!)

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John and Wes are from areas that are sort of wide open spaces. I wouldn't assume their advice applies in "over-civilized" areas. In more populated places law enforcement often keeps closer tabs on what is going on and is suspicious of anything unusual. For example, I think there was a discussion here a year or two ago where someone was told they were not supposed to be walking the fence line along a highway right-of-way.

 

There may be rules against stopping along some divided highways in non-emergency situations, and that may vary by location.

 

The safety vest sounds like a really good idea, less for safety than for camouflage, because you won't be spending significant time close to traffic.

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John and Wes are from areas that are sort of wide open spaces. I wouldn't assume their advice applies in "over-civilized" areas. In more populated places law enforcement often keeps closer tabs on what is going on and is suspicious of anything unusual. For example, I think there was a discussion here a year or two ago where someone was told they were not supposed to be walking the fence line along a highway right-of-way.

 

There may be rules against stopping along some divided highways in non-emergency situations, and that may vary by location.

 

The safety vest sounds like a really good idea, less for safety than for camouflage, because you won't be spending significant time close to traffic.

 

Wide open spaces is not quite accurate in some of the areas we have benchmarked.

 

Las Vegas Blvd is over 30 miles in length and we have benchmarked along quite a bit of it. Granted, you can't just stop on "The strip" section and jump out and grab a benchmark, but the section that runs right next Nellis Air Base does have a few benchmarks as well as the section that runs from Mandalay Bay and Luxor casinos down to Jean NV. Quite a bit of traffic and very populated, but you still can find a decent parking spot to get out and recover some benchmarks. Both NV Highway patrol and Vegas City police have yet to stop and question what we were doing.

 

I think the reasons are 1) we act like we belong there and don't act like we are sneaking around & 2) we make sure we have parked in a safe place and manner so there is no reason for the police to stop and investigate.

 

For the record, we have had more Highway Patrol stop and see if we need anything while out in the middle of nowhere, than we have had Local/city police stop and ask. Of more than a dozen encounters, only 1 has asked why we were in the area.

 

We suggest that you look for benchmarks in a manner that says you belong in the area and don't act like you are worried about being questioned. If someone does stop and ask just give a simple explanation as in "I'm looking for survey marker 'XXXX'". That is all most people want to hear about what you are doing.

 

John

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For the state of North Carolina, § 20‑161 subsection "E" states that:

"When any vehicle is parked or left standing upon the right‑of‑way of a public highway, including rest areas, for a period of 24 hours or more, the owner shall be deemed to have appointed any investigating law‑enforcement officer his agent for the purpose of arranging for the transportation and safe storage of such vehicle and such investigating law‑enforcement officer shall be deemed a legal possessor of the motor vehicle within the meaning of that term as it appears in G.S. 44A‑2(d)."

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Have you considered This option?

Hmm, I wonder whether putting a light bar and a magnetic sign on a 944 would be convincing? I suppose not... :D

 

Hey, does anyone have suggestions for what to look for in a safety vest? Just something orange with a couple of pockets?

 

Patty

 

About as convincing as a light bar on a ’68 Eldorado. :)

 

I use a light vest, orange with yellow reflective bands. It was cheap and does not take up much room in the truck. But I see the latest “fashion” for roadside workers is the full length jumper with long sleeves, orange with lots of yellow reflective stripes. This is in the tropics. I think they are going for protection from the sun.

 

I got my vest from a welding supply store, but when I was in the surveyor supply store I saw several types. There was orange with yellow reflective stripes, florescent green with reflective stripes both with and without pockets.

 

I think I’ll get my next one from the surveyor supply store.

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Thanks for the many replies. One thing that remains a concern is that for several marks on my list is that I would be out of sight for the period of the search since the target area is several hundred yards or more from the road. One involves a mark in an abandoned rest area in the center median of the highway (with the old off/on ramps blocked). This would either involve parking on the left of the road (not usually a good idea for any purpose) or parking on the right and crossing the road (also not the best idea).

 

Most suggestions rightly point out that if I'm dressed appropriately and "look like I belong" I'll be OK. Actually I'm an old pro at that game already (although I'm not sure I really "looked like I belonged" in parts of Harlem or the South Bronx in my home town :lol:). But these marks are not ON the right of way, they are a ways from the road. What I worry about for these searches is that the police will see the car parked, but not me.

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First, if parking along a busy highway, or anywhere near a curve, be sure to pull well off. If you can park behind a guardrail or highway sign, better. Be sure not to block the view of any sign for other drivers.

 

The safety vest and hardhat, if you have one, will most likely make most of the public think you belong. Folks normally don't question those that "look official".

 

The yellow strobe and signs really add to the official look. Keep in mind that most state limit the use of blue and red to emergency responders only, stick with yellow.

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In order for a surveyor to perform work along a State Route or Highway (in California) CalTrans (CDOT) requires a permit. Many surveyors don't have them, but they are required. Most LEOs leave us alone - they have more important things to do - but CalTrans employees (particularly Right-of-Way field Engineers and Permit Agents) do stop and talk to us if they feel we are within and/or too close to their Right-of-Ways. I have been "talked to" on-site by permit agents, who were called by other CalTrans employees who saw us working. I have also been asked to cease work (only once) as I didn't have a current permit. (I had one leg of my tripod in the Right-of-Way! The rest of my equipment, including my truck, was outside of the CalTrans Right-of-Way. Two days and a $250 permit later, and I was back finishing the job.) Caltrans does not issue permits for surveyors to work on major highways or interstates for work unrelated to the highway itself; only CalTrans survey crews are allowed there.

 

In California, there are many Public lands along State Routes, however, that does not mean that the lands are legally accessable from those State Routes. The land must be accessed by a legal ingress/egress along the State Route. Parking on the shoulder is only to be for emergencies and leaving the car will get it tagged as abandoned and ticketed quickly. I imagine that California has a law similar to the North Carolina law stated by WWFLover13. It would probably be safe to assume that most States have a similar law. All that said, if you are worried about leaving your car on the side of the road, have someone drop you off and then pick you back up an hour later at the same spot.

 

As far as talking to an LEO about what you're doing: just be honest. You could talk to LEOs about access and they may not care, but be prepared to hear that they don't want you there. And if they tell you "no" and then find you there, you'd be worse off. You could wear a vest and pretend to pick up trash, but most of the Adopt-a-Highway people need permits too. You could also put flashing lights on an Acura, a VW bus, or a '63 Studebaker Lark, for all that goes. From a safety standpoint it's all good, but it may actually draw more attention to you from persons in authority. You may "look like you belong" to the general public, but to those who work on the highways daily (LEOs, DOT workers, etc.), you may stick out like the proverbial sore thumb.

 

- Kewaneh

Edited by Kewaneh & Shark
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I would guess that the situation will apparently vary from state-to-state...and possibly your 'exposure' may vary depending on the area of the state in question.

Here in Arizona, (like the 2 O.F.), I have pulled off the freeway to look for marks more than once, and there have been plenty of times I was away from the vehicle for more than an hour. I have NEVER had any negative consequences of these searches...not even an orange sticker on my window. I have been asked if everything was OK, but never told I needed to 'move on'. I have heard that others have been told that the freeway shoulder is for emergency parking only, but no citation was issued.

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