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European Taxes on coins


avroair

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Mr Ellandel is correct

 

Sales in the EEC = Pay VAT

Sales outside the EEC = NO Vat

 

In order for a vendor to be able to justify these sales, goods must be sent including an invoice of the correct sales value, a customs export declaration should be included again showing the correct sales value, and of course the goods must be sent via recorded / register delivery to prove export.

 

So hopefully the lower costs you will all see, will justify the higher mail costs we have here in Europe, especially when sending stuff to the USA.

 

RGZ to all and be assured as we open our Geocaching shop this summer - non eec customers will not pay any vat.

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I think it is time an answer was forthcoming on this.

 

Do you think there is a definitive answer, that fits all businesses?

 

The admin involved in registering for VAT, completing the forms and collecting certificates of posting for every non-EU order could very easily put more than 17.5% onto each and every coin sold. Smaller businesses would need quite some turnover before it became practical to do anything than trade as a non VAT registered business and absorb the input VAT.

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I think it is time an answer was forthcoming on this.

 

Do you think there is a definitive answer, that fits all businesses?

 

The admin involved in registering for VAT, completing the forms and collecting certificates of posting for every non-EU order could very easily put more than 17.5% onto each and every coin sold. Smaller businesses would need quite some turnover before it became practical to do anything than trade as a non VAT registered business and absorb the input VAT.

 

Yes, I do think there is a definitive answer to this, it was given several posts back. Every other European coin vendor that I know of has been able to exclude the VAT when sending orders outwith the EU. Every business within the EU has to follow EU legislation when it comes to applying tax - why should one vendor decide to be the exception.

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Yes, I do think there is a definitive answer to this, it was given several posts back. Every other European coin vendor that I know of has been able to exclude the VAT when sending orders outwith the EU. Every business within the EU has to follow EU legislation when it comes to applying tax - why should one vendor decide to be the exception.

 

 

My point was that small part-time coin producers and sellers with a low turnover (below £69,000?) aren't required to register for VAT. If they register merely to allow them to reclaim the input tax and then knock the output tax off exports it could be counter-productive if the administrative costs lead to an overall increase in coin prices for all their customers.

 

As an example a coin that costs £3 to buy in, would have a VAT element of 52.5p that a non VAT registered seller would absorb. They wouldn't charge any VAT on the price they sold at but they VAT on their purchases would influence their sale price. The price that customers are willing to pay may mean that they don't pass th eentire 52.5p on.

 

If they register for VAT specifically to avoid passing this on to non-EU customers and if the trip to the post office to get a certificate of posting during business hours costs more than 52.5p and then a bit is charged for the admin as well, the non-EU customer buying the coin could easily wind up paying more for the coin than they would have without fighting over the principle.

 

And thats just a very simplified version of the possible scenarios :huh:

 

Principles are fine but real-life and taxes are rather more complex :huh:

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My point was that small part-time coin producers and sellers with a low turnover (below £69,000?) aren't required to register for VAT.

 

Absolutely, if a business is not required to register for VAT then why the hell are they charging me for it?

Selling 1000 coins every two weeks at 8 euros would in fact be well above 69,000 but that isn't the point. The point is, regardless of whether the coin store adds VAT or is exempt from it, I should always be exempt from it.

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My point was that small part-time coin producers and sellers with a low turnover (below £69,000?) aren't required to register for VAT.

 

Absolutely, if a business is not required to register for VAT then why the hell are they charging me for it?

Selling 1000 coins every two weeks at 8 euros would in fact be well above 69,000 but that isn't the point. The point is, regardless of whether the coin store adds VAT or is exempt from it, I should always be exempt from it.

 

Personally I'm sure that I pay taxes I shouldn't on some of my web transactions in this age of global buying or on my rare foreign holidays. If I didn't agree with the bottom line price I wouldn't be checking out and I somehow can't get to concerned about the make-up of the price. Sometimes the simplistic viewpoint is the least stressfull :huh:

 

We are looking into this issue for our own coins and you probably need that £60k turnover to realistically spread the costs of implementing a robust system to zero-rate non-EU exports. It may well end up coming off the tax and going straight back onto the coin price or a shipping/handling/admin charge which is passed on to software vendors and accountants :huh:

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I have, on several occasions, gone to this Vendor with the intention of purchasing some coins. However, after adding the VAT/Shipping charges, I just can't bring myself to justify the $17.00+ per coin I would have to pay and I CANCEL my order!

 

Perhaps if everyone that has voiced such STRONG opinions about this did the same, they would get the message and DO something about it. I'm fairly certain that a substantial percentage of their sales go to Non-Block Countries and it would impact their "Bottom Line". As long as people continue to pay these

"Union Dues" they will continue to charge them!

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I don't understand what is so hard for them to sort it out.

We have a simular tax in NZ. I have been to a class about tax and even small companies are expected to NOT charge it to overseas sales.

On the form where you state to the tax man your sales there is even a space for income that is zero rated (that is has no tax).

If the other sites can deal with it why are they dragging their feet on it.

 

As for postage that is getting more and more expensive here. Post office are trying to get more money from those of us selling things online as less people post letters.

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My point was that small part-time coin producers and sellers with a low turnover (below £69,000?) aren't required to register for VAT.

 

Absolutely, if a business is not required to register for VAT then why the hell are they charging me for it?

Selling 1000 coins every two weeks at 8 euros would in fact be well above 69,000 but that isn't the point. The point is, regardless of whether the coin store adds VAT or is exempt from it, I should always be exempt from it.

 

Because if you don't register for VAT - you can't claim back the VAT you pay on the goods you buy in for resale.

 

No store is exempt from VAT. They will be charged VAT on purchases. VAT Registered Companies are the ones who can not charge VAT on Non-Europe Sales, if they believe the paperwork involved is worth the extra business it may create.

 

Non VAT Registered companies and individuals have no choice but to include the VAT they paid out as part of the selling price - even though they won't show VAT as a separate item on any invoice.

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I don't understand what is so hard for them to sort it out.

We have a simular tax in NZ. I have been to a class about tax and even small companies are expected to NOT charge it to overseas sales.

On the form where you state to the tax man your sales there is even a space for income that is zero rated (that is has no tax).

 

 

The form is the easy part, the systems and paperwork that you have to implement in order to ensure that you don't get retrospectively charged VAT on past sales are likely to be the major cost issue :laughing:

 

I don't know who the store everyone is complaming about are or what their circumstances are, but we still have to bear in mind that for some smaller sellers implementing a system to recover VAT on their purchases and then zero rate exports may put more onto the price of their coins than the input VAT itself would :laughing:

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I don't understand what is so hard for them to sort it out.

We have a simular tax in NZ. I have been to a class about tax and even small companies are expected to NOT charge it to overseas sales.

On the form where you state to the tax man your sales there is even a space for income that is zero rated (that is has no tax).

 

 

The form is the easy part, the systems and paperwork that you have to implement in order to ensure that you don't get retrospectively charged VAT on past sales are likely to be the major cost issue :laughing:

 

I don't know which their store everyone is complaining about are or what their circumstances are, but we still have to bear in mind that for some smaller sellers implementing a system to recover VAT on their purchases and then zero rate exports may put more onto the price of their coins than the input VAT itself would :laughing:

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Personally I'm sure that I pay taxes I shouldn't on some of my web transactions in this age of global buying or on my rare foreign holidays. If I didn't agree with the bottom line price I wouldn't be checking out and I somehow can't get to concerned about the make-up of the price. Sometimes the simplistic viewpoint is the least stressfull :D

 

Something about the can-do attitude of Brits! :D

 

Still the bottom line is, the stores were going to check on VAT and now they have disappeared? Does it really take 8 weeks to check this out with an attorney? :D

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Personally I'm sure that I pay taxes I shouldn't on some of my web transactions in this age of global buying or on my rare foreign holidays. If I didn't agree with the bottom line price I wouldn't be checking out and I somehow can't get to concerned about the make-up of the price. Sometimes the simplistic viewpoint is the least stressfull :D

 

Something about the can-do attitude of Brits! :D

 

Still the bottom line is, the stores were going to check on VAT and now they have disappeared? Does it really take 8 weeks to check this out with an attorney? :D

 

I imagine that it could take quite some time to work out a system where you could refund VAT paid in the past without leaving yourself open to a later attempt to reclaim this money by the tax office. If the correct paper work wasn't raised at the time of the order it may be impossible :lol:

 

This wouldn't excuse a lack of communication by the seller IMO. Even if their answer was that it wasn't possible to refund the VAT that has been paid in the past duw to a lack of the necessary supporting paperwork. At least everyone would know where they stood.

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Personally I'm sure that I pay taxes I shouldn't on some of my web transactions in this age of global buying or on my rare foreign holidays. If I didn't agree with the bottom line price I wouldn't be checking out and I somehow can't get to concerned about the make-up of the price. Sometimes the simplistic viewpoint is the least stressfull :D

 

Something about the can-do attitude of Brits! :lol:

 

Still the bottom line is, the stores were going to check on VAT and now they have disappeared? Does it really take 8 weeks to check this out with an attorney? :D

 

I imagine that it could take quite some time to work out a system where you could refund VAT paid in the past without leaving yourself open to a later attempt to reclaim this money by the tax office. If the correct paper work wasn't raised at the time of the order it may be impossible :D

 

This wouldn't excuse a lack of communication by the seller IMO. Even if their answer was that it wasn't possible to refund the VAT that has been paid in the past duw to a lack of the necessary supporting paperwork. At least everyone would know where they stood.

 

According to another EU store, the postal receipts for registered mail and the paypal receipt showing a non-EU delivery address are good enough for required records. Since we're asking for refunds in 2008 and PayPal history is able to be accessed, there really isn't an excuse not to refund the money.

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Good News:

After several discussions with our accountant and the local tax office we now found a solution to skip the VAT for export into USA/Non-EU countries.

 

What does that mean for our customers?

From now on all invoices to USA / Non-EU countries will no longer include the 19% VAT. In our shop system you will recognize this after you have logged into your personal account, provided that you have a delivery address in USA / Non-EU.

 

Since first quarter of 2008 is already booked, customers can directly contact the German custom authorities for any refund.

(Unfortunately we ourselves have no chance to get the money back for first booked quarter).

 

For invoices from second quarter, please contact us via e-mail until June, 13th latest for refund of payed VAT.

 

We hope this is a solution for all benefit.

If you have questions, please contact us via e-mail: info ( A T ) geocoinshop.de with your invoice number and the date of purchase.

 

Best regards,

Your Geocoinshop.de

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Extract from newsletter received today.................

 

we are happy to make a special announcement in this newsletter:

From now one, we are offering VAT free orders for NON EU customers. If you are living in the USA, you can save a lot of money in our shop now.

 

No idea if anyone has been able to obtain a refund for tax already paid, but glad to see that at least from now this is no longer a problem. Thank you to the folks at Geocoinshop.de for finally resolving this.

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