Ticks!

[+goathag]

I got slammed by ticks today! I have never seen so many in one place (me). Is DEET the best repellent? If the Lyme disease doesn't get me, the anemia will.

[Mushtang]

I don't think DEET repels ticks at all.

[+StumpWater]

My dad swears by vitamin B1. Not B complex or a multi, gotta be just B1. He takes 500 mg per day during mosquito season (in SC, no shortage of mosquitoes there). Says he hasn't had a bit in 2 years.

 

Might work for ticks ... ?

 

No idea about B and any health issues. Most vitamins your body just ... gets rid of the excess, right?

 

StumpWater

Edited April 4, 2008 by StumpWater

[+egami]

Here is the commentary from an online study I found a couple years back. The original web document has moved, but here is the source site: http://www.ct.gov/dph/site/default.asp

 

DEET and ticks: DEET will repel ticks and decrease the chances of tick bite, but depending upon the concentration, it may not provide total protection against I. scapularis. Little is known about the effectiveness of different concentrations of DEET against I. scapularis. Concentrations of DEET that might prevent tick attachment may not deter a tick from walking across the skin to unexposed and untreated areas. When applied to clothes, 30% and 20% DEET was found to be 92% and 86% effective against I. scapularis (deer ticks), respectively, but skin applications were reported to be only 75 to 87% effective against crawling ticks in a second study. For blacklegged (deer) ticks, DEET concentrations around 30 to 40% probably should be used, although the effectiveness of higher (>50%) and lower (<20%) concentrations against I. scapularis needs to be examined more closely. When applying a repellent against ticks, particular attention should be given to the shoe tops, socks, and lower portion of pants.

 

Permethrin: Several products contain 0.5% permethrin (e.g. Duranon Tick Repellent, Repel Permanone, Cutter Outdoorsman Gear Guard, Permethrin Tick Repellent), which is for use only on clothing or other fabrics such as mosquito netting or tents. A synthetic pyrethroid insecticide rather than a true repellent, permethrin works primarily by killing ticks on contact with the clothes and can provide high levels of protection against tick bites (and mosquitoes). Permethrin is available as a 0.5% aerosol spray, mainly in lawn and garden centers or sports stores. Permethrin has low mammalian toxicity, is poorly absorbed through the skin and is rapidly inactivated by the body. Skin reactions have been uncommon.

Edited April 4, 2008 by egami

[Mag Magician]

I got slammed by ticks today! I have never seen so many in one place (me). Is DEET the best repellent? If the Lyme disease doesn't get me, the anemia will.

 

What you really need is a partner who is willing to do a thorough tick search and removal after every trip out in the boondocks.

[+Chuy!]

Every Spring-Summer, some newbie asks about ticks...

 

I've used these successfully, I think it's called the Tick Twister.

 

My wife got me these for Valentine's Day (ain't she a sweety?)

 

Permethrin is the best stuff on clothing and the best ingredient in dog repellents.

 

For human skin, DEET is considered the safest and most effective.

[+egami]

For human skin, DEET is considered the safest and most effective.

 

Actually, they don't recommend it for small children because it's not something you want to ingest and kids are prone to putting fingers in their mouths and it could inadvertently be ingested that way.

 

But I've personally felt I've had the best protection with DEET.

[+briansnat]

I don't think DEET repels ticks at all.

 

It has some effect, but last year I watched a tick walking on my DEET soaked leg, so it's not foolproof.

 

The best repellent for ticks is a permethrin based one. It is used on clothing, not skin and is actually a gentle insecticide. So when a tick jumps on you it dies. Wearing permethrin treated clothing gives you a sense of satisfaction as you walk through a tick infested field knowing you are making a dent in the population.

 

For the best protection against ticks, use permethrin treated clothing, apply DEET to your bare skin, wear light colored clothing so you can see the buggers if they jump on and tuck your pant legs into your socks (if you don't mind the high geek look factor). Also check your body when you get home.

[+Fuchsiamagic]

I got slammed by ticks today! I have never seen so many in one place (me). Is DEET the best repellent? If the Lyme disease doesn't get me, the anemia will.

A word of warning if you use DEET. Make sure it's not on your fingers as it acts like paint stripper. After using this stuff during a recent trip to Florida, I found that all the markings on the control dial of my very expensive camera had been erased!

[+egami]

I got slammed by ticks today! I have never seen so many in one place (me). Is DEET the best repellent? If the Lyme disease doesn't get me, the anemia will.

A word of warning if you use DEET. Make sure it's not on your fingers as it acts like paint stripper. After using this stuff during a recent trip to Florida, I found that all the markings on the control dial of my very expensive camera had been erased!

 

Yeah, DEET is very harsh on clothing, plastics and many other surfaces. That's one of the reasons the military went away from 100% DEET usage.

[+Kymus]

DEET is a rather toxic substance. Speaking as a health professional, I really don't think that it should be marketed. There are a number of different non-toxic options one can use

 

here's the scoop:

Chemical Mosquito Repellant DEET Causes Neurological Damage, Gets Absorbed Through The Skin

[+Freth]

I've used Deep Woods Off for four years to keep ticks and mosquitoes off of me while I played airsoft. Usually I would be fully dressed in battle dress uniform, complete with tucked in pant legs, shirt and flight gloves on my hands, which covered my sleeve openings. I usually wore a boonie hat. The only place a tick could get in was my neck area. I sprayed my clothes front and back with Deep Woods Off and my neck. I never did get bitten over the course of four years. Only once or twice did I find a tick on me in that time. Yes, Deep Woods Off has DEET in it, but it's only about 10% or so if I remember right.

 

I agree. The best bet is to cache with someone who can check you for ticks. What I usually do when I get home is take my clothes off and throw them in the washer immediately and run a load. If the water doesn't kill them the heat from the dryer will. I would then get undressed and check myself in the mirror before getting in the shower.

 

I suggest tucked in pant legs (or velcro straps keeping them closed), a second shirt that you can take off and check for ticks. Run your hands around your neck and through your hair.

 

Yesterday I walked through woods for over a mile to find a cache and didn't see the first sign of a tick. I didn't wear any repellant. If you take some common-sense precautions it goes a long way. You don't necessarily have to use repellant if you check yourself often, after each cache. Also, be alert to moving things on your skin.

Edited April 7, 2008 by Freth

[+briansnat]

DEET is a rather toxic substance. Speaking as a health professional, I really don't think that it should be marketed. There are a number of different non-toxic options one can use

 

here's the scoop:

Chemical Mosquito Repellant DEET Causes Neurological Damage, Gets Absorbed Through The Skin

 

As a health professional you should know that few products have been used for so long by so many than DEET without ill effect. Used as directed adverse reactions are extremely rare. Tylenol has a worse safety track record than DEET.

 

A health professional should also know that the dangers of insect borne disease are real, potentially serious and

sometimes fatal. When weighed against using against a product that has proven safe and effective for hundreds of millions for close to 50 years, it's a no brainer.

 

I'll take DEET over the chance of picking up West Nile Virus, Lyme, Erlichosis, Babesoisis, Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, Tick Typhus, STARI, Tularemia, St. Louis encephalitis, Tick Paralaysis, Relapsing Fever and Anaplasmosis. All diseases that are carried by insects in North America.

[+softball29]

It's threads like this that make me worried about caching in the woods when the weather gets warmer.

 

I take a lot of caution when I go out, but still, things like this worry me quite a bit. I just always get fearful when out and about, though I do usually make sure to check everything at all times.

[+CM-14]

My dad swears by vitamin B1. Not B complex or a multi, gotta be just B1. He takes 500 mg per day during mosquito season (in SC, no shortage of mosquitoes there). Says he hasn't had a bit in 2 years.

 

Might work for ticks ... ?

 

No idea about B and any health issues. Most vitamins your body just ... gets rid of the excess, right?

 

StumpWater

 

I think your body turns excess vitamin C into kidney stones. Then gets rid of them.

[+oldsoldier]

It's threads like this that make me worried about caching in the woods when the weather gets warmer.

 

I take a lot of caution when I go out, but still, things like this worry me quite a bit. I just always get fearful when out and about, though I do usually make sure to check everything at all times.

 

Ticks are already out. I went out this weekend in new england, and pulled a bunch off of me. And it DEFINTELY wasnt warm...tick season has begun folks! Treat your clothing!!!

The best stuff is the wash in permethrin...not sure where you can get it, but it is good up to 10 washings.

[+WookieTravs]

DEET is very harsh on clothing, plastics and many other surfaces. That's one of the reasons the military went away from 100% DEET usage.

 

Imagine what it could do to your liver . Avoid pesticides. In this case (as with many), the cure can kill you.

 

Those of you who are suggesting DEET is completely safe: google Gulf War Syndrome and DEET. Or, DEET problems. Or, DEET poisoning.

Edited April 13, 2008 by WookieTravs

[+PilotMan]

DEET is very harsh on clothing, plastics and many other surfaces. That's one of the reasons the military went away from 100% DEET usage.

 

Imagine what it could do to your liver . Avoid pesticides. In this case (as with many), the cure can kill you.

 

Those of you who are suggesting DEET is completely safe: google Gulf War Syndrome and DEET. Or, DEET problems. Or, DEET poisoning.

 

Did you know water can kill you if you drink too much? Follow the instructions on the can and you'll be alright. Better than catching a disease that might kill you. Some people worry way too d*mn much.

[+briansnat]

DEET is very harsh on clothing, plastics and many other surfaces. That's one of the reasons the military went away from 100% DEET usage.

 

Imagine what it could do to your liver . Avoid pesticides. In this case (as with many), the cure can kill you.

 

Those of you who are suggesting DEET is completely safe: google Gulf War Syndrome and DEET. Or, DEET problems. Or, DEET poisoning.

 

I have. Because I use the stuff frequently I've been reading up on it for years. You'll find that nearly all serious adverse reactions to DEET came from misuse. Either drinking the stuff, bathing in it or applying it high concentrations for extend periods of time.

 

I just took you up on Googling "DEET problems". The first website that came up on the list had this to say:

 

Before DEET and other repellents may be legally distributed, sold or used in this country, they must be evaluated and registered by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (USEPA). When used according to label directions, millions of people have used DEET repellents to provide protection against mosquitoes and ticks with minimal risk. Nevertheless, no repellent is 100 percent safe and all repellents must be used carefully. Use of DEET concentrations above 50 percent have been associated with increased skin irritation and similar reactions. In very rare circumstances, slurred speech, confusion and seizures have been associated with the use of DEET, particularly in children. However, some of these persons had a history of long-term, excessive or improper use of DEET repellents. The risk of experiencing any adverse health effects is reduced when products containing DEET are used according to label instructions and concentrated DEET products are avoided. A fact sheet by USEPA about insect repellents may be found at www.epa.gov/pesticides/citizens/insectrp.htm. Additionally, an article reviewing DEET and other repellents, "Mosquitoes and Mosquito Repellents: A Clinician's Guide," may be found at www.acponline.org/journals/annals/01jun98/mosquito.htm.

 

The fact is that the risk of adverse, serious reactions to DEET based repellent when used as directed is extremely rare. The risk of insect borne diseases is real and fairly common. I'll take my chances with a product that has been proven safe for hundreds of millions of users over nearly half a century.

 

Of course no product is without risk, but aspirin, Tylenol and bath tubs are far more dangerous statistically than DEET.

Edited April 13, 2008 by briansnat

[GPS-Hermit]

Experimint with lots of stuff and try to keep poison out of the picture. Bugs don't like mint or cedar, and slimly surfaces. Stay out of tall grass when you have a choice and get help inspecting yourself. Don't use scented stuff before going. My brother told me he has great luck applying Deet to his clothes but does that with clothes he doesn't care about. I never considered hiking a fashion sport and look that way when out there. Thift stores are great for hiking clothes. You can literally wash off Chiggers if you do it soon after a hike. If you know an area is badly infected with ticks please warn others and they can probably find a way to get around it or just avoid them all together. Save that area for fall and winter.

Edited April 13, 2008 by GPS-Hermit

[+Apex]

Permethrin has been used by the military to ward off ticks. They contact the clothing and die. You can spray your clothing or soak your clothing.

PERMA-KILL® 13.3% PERMETHRIN SOLUTION

Previously sold under the PERMAKILL 4-WEEK TICK KILLER label, the new name best describes the product and its attributes. This has long been used as an economical means of applying permethrin to tents, camping gear, building premises, surrounding grounds, dogs, dog bedding, kennels and clothing. Permethrin is the product referred to by the CDC for use by travelers. The following information is gleaned from several sources including the US Army:

Permethrin Fabric Treatment

There are three specific dosages used to impregnate fabric with Permethrin.

For protection up to one year (52 weeks):

0.125-mg permethrin per square centimeter of fabric. The protection will last for the life of the garment, 50 detergent launderings, or 1 year, whichever comes first. It is accomplished by applying a dosage of 1 pint of .8% mixture to a garment using Perma-kill 13.3% Permethrin solution by way of Controlled Wicking, Spraying or Soaking (see below).

For protection up to 6 weeks:

0.026 mg per square centimeter of fabric will yield 6 weeks of protection or 6 launderings and is accomplished by applying by 2 1/2 ounces of .5% (1/2%) mixture to a garment by aerosol spray or non-aerosol spray.

For protection up to 2 weeks:

0.008 mg per square centimeter of fabric will yield 2 weeks of protection or 2 launderings and is accomplished by applying by 1 1/2 ounces .5% (1/2%) mixture to a garment by aerosol spray or non-aerosol spray.

TOTAL FABRIC IMPREGNATION USING PERMAKILL 13.3% SOLUTION

Controlled Wicking - The ideal application (preferred method) is to follow the prescribed military procedure that maximizes protection and minimizes waste. The process is a controlled wicking process where a specific amount (dose) of permethrin is introduced to an individual garment under controlled conditions.

You will need:

a - pint measuring cup

b - 1 ounce measurer

c - several 2 gallon sealable plastic bags (e.g. Ziploc ™)

d - a bottle of 13.3% permethrin

e - water

f - clothing (Do not treat any under garments, treat outer garments only).

g - several large rubber bands

h - rubber gloves

Instructions: Wear rubber gloves when handling wet solution. Add 1 ounce of Perma-kill 13.3% Permethrin to measuring cup and top off with 15 ounces of clean water to make 1 pint. Roll garment to be treated tightly to a size that will fit into bag and secure roll with rubber bands. Place garment into the bag, add the mixed (1 pint) of permethrin solution and seal the bag while removing excess air. Put bag aside for 2 hours minimum to allow thorough wicking. Remove garment, unroll the garment to ensure entire garment is damp without dry spots, air dry, mark with treatment date (month/year) and store. If wicking is not complete, roll garment and return to bag.

This method has been tested and delivers protection within the following guideline - Properly completed, this procedure will impregnate the garment with a dosage of approximately 0.125-mg permethrin per square centimeter. The protection will last for the life of the garment, 50 detergent launderings, or 1 year, whichever comes first.

Note: Measuring cups (a) & ( and sealable plastic bags ©, must be dedicated only to this process and not used for ANY other purpose. Clothing to be treated must be washable and suitable for exposure to water. Dry Clean Only products should not be treated. Do not treat underwear.

Spraying - Wear rubber gloves when handling wet solution. Mix 8 ounces of Perma-kill 13.3% Permethrin with 120 ounces of water to make 1 gallon of mixed solution in an appropriate pump up garden sprayer. Lay clothing out and spray until wet, flip over and spray until wet, hang and let dry. One gallon of mixed solution will treat eight garments (@ 1 pint per garment) with the proper dosage of permethrin. See section on garments for proper definition of garment.

Submersion - Wear rubber gloves when handling wet solution. Follow all instructions for Controlled Wicking. Limit garment or equivalent (see section on garments for proper definition of garment) to 1-pint of mixed solution. Substitute pail or other dedicated container for sealable plastic bags.

Storage - The ideal storage is to pack into plastic bag after it's completely dry (black garbage bags are perfect) and store in a dark place when not in use.

Garments - A garment consists of one pair of long pants (or an alternate of two pairs of short pants) or one long sleeve shirt (or an alternate of two T-shirts). Garments to be treated must be treated individually except when treating an alternate. When treating an alternate both items (e.g.: two pair of shorts or two T-shirts) must be treated at the same time. An alternate pair must be made of like material to ensure accurate wicking of the full dosage. Example - do not combine cotton blend with a nylon garment.

PARTIAL FABRIC IMPREGNATION USING .5% (1/2%) PERMETHRIN

Other Permethrin Dosages - There are two other dosages that have been tested for clothing treatment. Both rely on a .5% (1/2%) solution, which is available in pre-mixed 6-ounce containers (either aerosol or non-aerosol).

0.026 mg per square centimeter of fabric will yield 6 weeks of protection or 6 launderings and is accomplished by applying by 2 1/2 ounces to a garment by aerosol spray or non-aerosol spray. Retreat garments after 6 weeks or sixth laundering.

0.008 mg per square centimeter of fabric will yield 2 weeks of protection or 2 launderings and is accomplished by applying by 1 1/2 ounces to a garment by aerosol spray or non-aerosol spray. Retreat garments after 2 weeks or second laundering.

Note: For trips of short duration (6 weeks or less) the use of Duranon Tick & Mosquito Repellent is far more convenient in either the aerosol or non-aerosol pump. By pre-treating before the trip and re-treating once during the trip, you'll find these products to be the perfect answer.

There are many recipes for use of this product while only a few have been tested. Only rely on tested methods for best protection. One frequently mentioned method is WRONG; here it is - Add the concentrate to the final rinse cycle while washing your clothing. DO NOT DO THIS! First you will over dilute the product thereby reducing its strength and effectiveness significantly. Secondly, you will be flushing the excess product into the environment through sewers or septic systems.

Always follow manufacturer's instructions as the basis for use. The use of permethrin clothing treatment requires that you use a DEET based repellent on skin. The DEET repellent can be any repellent of less than 35% DEET concentration. This combination is known as the DOD system (Department Of Defense) and is known to perform at nearly 100% effectiveness. Keep in mind that no protection system will be 100% effective and that you must use other means to supplement the repellent.

This would include:

Proper clothing, worn in a defensive manner.

Awareness of your environment and disease threats you're likely to encounter. Your choice to remain, or retreat from a threatening environment.

The choice is ultimately yours!

[+paleolith]

I'm absolutely with briansnat on this: insect-borne diseases pose risks a couple of orders greater than the risk of DEET, even in a place like the US which has no malaria or yellow fever these days.

 

Like most others, I have found DEET only weakly effective against ticks. Last year I tried to hike a trail that turned out to be seriously infested at the time. Check after the hike? After each cache? HAH HAH HAH!!! It was check every 50' and knock off a dozen. I turned back about a half hour into the hike when I got my first bite. Came back a week later with lots of DEET and managed to complete the hike, but even with heavy application (mostly to clothing, since with so many ticks I was using clothing as part of the barrier), I had to stop and flick them off frequently. (The trail isn't usually infested.)

 

But I was somewhat worried about applying DEET so heavily to trousers made of synthetic material, since DEET does indeed dissolve many plastics. They didn't suffer any damage, and I don't have a list of what materials are DEET-safe and what are not. (Many years ago, a bottle of 100% DEET dripped very slowly onto a vinyl floor at my place. The vinyl softened and suffered some damage from my attempts to clean it, but over a couple of years it otherwise recovered.)

 

If I had this kind of problem very often, I'd go the permethrin route.

 

The hooks pictured in another post are effective and very cheap. I carry one. Got mine from a vet, but I'm sure they are widely available.

 

Edward

[+Shenron]

Permethrin has been used by the military to ward off ticks. They contact the clothing and die. You can spray your clothing or soak your clothing.

 

Awesome post SCRODMAN. I have been wanting to give permethrin a try, but wasn't sure what the best way to do it was. I can't wait to try this.

[+JohnnyVegas]

DEET is a rather toxic substance. Speaking as a health professional, I really don't think that it should be marketed. There are a number of different non-toxic options one can use

 

here's the scoop:

Chemical Mosquito Repellant DEET Causes Neurological Damage, Gets Absorbed Through The Skin

The website you linked to contains false information,IMO.

I would not trust it, it appears to be a website with a agenda that is less than honest.

In the article about deet there in no mention of any double blind studies, there is just a claim. Well, lets see the proof.

 

Just reading the section regarding vaccines and a claim that vaccines cause autism, they even refer to a Larry King segment in which Jenny McCarthy on the panel as an expert on autism. She is a second rate celebrity with no medical training. But of course, people in the USA tend to think celebrities are experts on everything because they are celebrities, Ha!!! Give be a break. They are celebrities with opinions nothing more.

[+JohnnyVegas]

DEET is very harsh on clothing, plastics and many other surfaces. That's one of the reasons the military went away from 100% DEET usage.

 

Imagine what it could do to your liver . Avoid pesticides. In this case (as with many), the cure can kill you.

 

Those of you who are suggesting DEET is completely safe: google Gulf War Syndrome and DEET. Or, DEET problems. Or, DEET poisoning.

 

Did you know water can kill you if you drink too much? Follow the instructions on the can and you'll be alright. Better than catching a disease that might kill you. Some people worry way too d*mn much.

Thats right. someone was killed by drinking to much water in Sacramento last december, it was part of a radio station promotion in which the person that drank the most water would win a nitendo wii. The entire radio station staff was fired.

[+JohnnyVegas]

NJM and Deet

 

I will stick with what works

[+Isonzo Karst]

I've damaged the screen on my GPS with DEET spray. I'd removed the cover that I usually have on it, and got it directly on the screen - resulting some milky spots.

 

DEET is wonderful stuff, and it works as well in lower percentage mixes - a nice study was done at UF about that.

 

I spend zero time worrying about the health risks of DEET - there may be some for me - I'm nearly a daily user, but the risks diseases from mosquitoes is high here. Every year there's an outbreak of one thing or another. I personally know someone now deceased of mosquito bites (West Nile and encephalomyelitis simultaneously - antibiotics couldn't keep ahead of it).

 

Ticks are tough; there are many species. Some crawl up from the ground, some drop down from limbs. I generally go Nerd and tuck my trow into my socks and do a heavy DEET application around the ankles. I've got a Permethrin product but don't use it much.

[+WookieTravs]

 

A health professional should also know that the dangers of insect borne disease are real, potentially serious and

sometimes fatal. When weighed against using against a product that has proven safe and effective for hundreds of millions for close to 50 years, it's a no brainer.

 

 

I disagree. I will continue to use my brain as I avoid using toxic chemicals in my home and on my body.

 

When it comes to ticks, the best solution for me is a thorough tick check at the end of a day spent outside. Tick borne diseases are (generally speaking) transmitted after the tick has attached to the host for many hours. Manually removing ticks is a viable alternative to using pesticides.

 

Happy earth day!

[+NeoAddict]

I use a product called Sawyer Gold, it's got plenty of DEET in it and I'm not twitching or having an aneurysm yet.

 

I am paranoid about having ticks on me, but I always seem to pick them up. Same with mosquitoes... I think my blood is sweet or something. Just a thorough check when I step out of the woods, and a very thorough check when I take a shower that night keeps the ticks off. Thankfully the deer ticks here are not that bad, as I'm awful at spotting those tiny little buggers.