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unacceptable cache description

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mtn-man

+mtn-man

Posted
Posted
I remember when this was a game about using a GPS to find a container. I am a huge supporter of the military, but this topic is an embarrassment.

I would really like for you to define embarrassment...embarrassment to who or what? Please feel free to e-mail me if you like on your thoughts. I don't want to read too much into the word embarrassment...but I fail to see the embarrassment in the topic...ie AGENDA caches and people stating their opinions.

I'm sorry, but if you really want to show support for the troops, putting one line on a geocache page isn't a whole lot of support.

 

Put your money where your mouth is. Volunteer at a VA hospital. Volunteer for the USO. Really support them by sending care packages to any unit overseas. Send them letters for heavens sake. Putting "Support our troops" on a cache page means absolutely nothing to the guys that are out there. Taking the time that has been put into this topic and instead writing them a simple letter would mean a whole lot more to them. You are wasting your time writing this on a cache page. Put your efforts somewhere that would actually mean something to these troops. Write them directly! They will appreciate it so much more.

 

I know. I've had a nephew over in Iraq. He is about to go back. Our family organized "Operation Little Paul." (He is Paul Jr., named after his dad, so we have called him Little Paul. We don't call him that anymore to his face since he can beat most of us up now. :lol: ) We pulled together stuff that he and his unit wanted. He told us about things they really wanted and we sent them. Part of that was just simple letters they could read.

 

If some of you channel your passion in a positive way, you can make a HUGE impact on these guys. I can guarantee you that less than one percent of the troops have any idea what Groundspeak is and could care less about having some line on a cache page. Give them some support they can really see.

 

You want to support the troops? Do it by clicking the link below and acting and not by typing four words on a cache page description.

 

http://www.ustroopcarepackage.com/

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steel city babes

+steel city babes

Posted
Posted
I remember when this was a game about using a GPS to find a container. I am a huge supporter of the military, but this topic is an embarrassment.

I would really like for you to define embarrassment...embarrassment to who or what? Please feel free to e-mail me if you like on your thoughts. I don't want to read too much into the word embarrassment...but I fail to see the embarrassment in the topic...ie AGENDA caches and people stating their opinions.

I'm sorry, but if you really want to show support for the troops, putting one line on a geocache page isn't a whole lot of support.

 

Put your money where your mouth is. Volunteer at a VA hospital. Volunteer for the USO. Really support them by sending care packages to any unit overseas. Send them letters for heavens sake. Putting "Support our troops" on a cache page means absolutely nothing to the guys that are out there. Taking the time that has been put into this topic and instead writing them a simple letter would mean a whole lot more to them. You are wasting your time writing this on a cache page. Put your efforts somewhere that would actually mean something to these troops. Write them directly! They will appreciate it so much more.

 

I know. I've had a nephew over in Iraq. He is about to go back. Our family organized "Operation Little Paul." (He is Paul Jr., named after his dad, so we have called him Little Paul. We don't call him that anymore to his face since he can beat most of us up now. :lol: ) We pulled together stuff that he and his unit wanted. He told us about things they really wanted and we sent them. Part of that was just simple letters they could read.

 

If some of you channel your passion in a positive way, you can make a HUGE impact on these guys. I can guarantee you that less than one percent of the troops have any idea what Groundspeak is and could care less about having some line on a cache page. Give them some support they can really see.

 

You want to support the troops? Do it by clicking the link below and acting and not by typing four words on a cache page description.

 

http://www.ustroopcarepackage.com/

 

Wow no offense but the OP did put her money where her mouth is? She definitely channeled her passion. She placed a cache to honor her children and sent some factual/recognition to the American Legion, who has a larger agenda then any of us in regards to vets and our troops. How do you know she isn't doing other things to help the troops outside of GS, we know she has two children, this was one small way she showed her thanks.

 

We also have had various active military persons and vets comment on this cache and others and they think they are good, anytype of support is welcomed. I think the kind thoughts on these pages logged by those that find it offer much encouragement to those in the military who do indeed geocache.

 

I have sent some coins to tsunrisebey that she shipped oversees for an event overseas at Camp Victory for our active members. Check out this thread:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=187065

Most of the comments from the military cachers involved had nothing but wonderful things to say about it. KUDOS to tsun for putting it together. Maybe you should ask them if they find her mission is an "embarrassment." I am pretty sure it will have a huge impact on those that partake in the event. I am sure a few new geocachers my arise from this event since it is giving them something to do on their day off. Wow now that is "embarrassment" yeah yeah that's right...feel the sarcasm

 

Yes it is only a small contribution (her cache and my coins) but who are you to pass judgement on weather either warrants merit. I am sure all the others that placed caches and sent coins will be glad to know that you think it is an embarrassment.....You really need to get your head out of your ***.

 

God bless your nephew, and I do wish for a safe and healthy return.

 

Steel City Babes

 

PS I think you missed the point of this topic...i.e. Agenda caches and what is or should be perceived as an Agenda and do you (in general) feel it is okay to have GS limit your wording off such said Agenda's

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mtn-man

+mtn-man

Posted
Posted (edited)
PS I think you missed the point of this topic.

Not one bit. You missed mine or you would agree with me. I am happy to report your post though. Maybe it will help you get your head in a better place than what you told me to do with mine.

Edited by mtn-man
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USA 45

+USA 45

Posted
Posted (edited)
I remember when this was a game about using a GPS to find a container. I am a huge supporter of the military, but this topic is an embarrassment.

I would really like for you to define embarrassment...embarrassment to who or what? Please feel free to e-mail me if you like on your thoughts. I don't want to read too much into the word embarrassment...but I fail to see the embarrassment in the topic...ie AGENDA caches and people stating their opinions.

I'm sorry, but if you really want to show support for the troops, putting one line on a geocache page isn't a whole lot of support.

 

Put your money where your mouth is. Volunteer at a VA hospital. Volunteer for the USO. Really support them by sending care packages to any unit overseas. Send them letters for heavens sake. Putting "Support our troops" on a cache page means absolutely nothing to the guys that are out there. Taking the time that has been put into this topic and instead writing them a simple letter would mean a whole lot more to them. You are wasting your time writing this on a cache page. Put your efforts somewhere that would actually mean something to these troops. Write them directly! They will appreciate it so much more.

 

I know. I've had a nephew over in Iraq. He is about to go back. Our family organized "Operation Little Paul." (He is Paul Jr., named after his dad, so we have called him Little Paul. We don't call him that anymore to his face since he can beat most of us up now. :lol: ) We pulled together stuff that he and his unit wanted. He told us about things they really wanted and we sent them. Part of that was just simple letters they could read.

 

If some of you channel your passion in a positive way, you can make a HUGE impact on these guys. I can guarantee you that less than one percent of the troops have any idea what Groundspeak is and could care less about having some line on a cache page. Give them some support they can really see.

 

You want to support the troops? Do it by clicking the link below and acting and not by typing four words on a cache page description.

 

http://www.ustroopcarepackage.com/

 

Wow no offense but the OP did put her money where her mouth is? She definitely channeled her passion. She placed a cache to honor her children and sent some factual/recognition to the American Legion, who has a larger agenda then any of us in regards to vets and our troops. How do you know she isn't doing other things to help the troops outside of GS, we know she has two children, this was one small way she showed her thanks.

 

We also have had various active military persons and vets comment on this cache and others and they think they are good, anytype of support is welcomed. I think the kind thoughts on these pages logged by those that find it offer much encouragement to those in the military who do indeed geocache.

 

I have sent some coins to tsunrisebey that she shipped oversees for an event overseas at Camp Victory for our active members. Check out this thread:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=187065

Most of the comments from the military cachers involved had nothing but wonderful things to say about it. KUDOS to tsun for putting it together. Maybe you should ask them if they find her mission is an "embarrassment." I am pretty sure it will have a huge impact on those that partake in the event. I am sure a few new geocachers my arise from this event since it is giving them something to do on their day off. Wow now that is "embarrassment" yeah yeah that's right...feel the sarcasm

 

Yes it is only a small contribution (her cache and my coins) but who are you to pass judgement on weather either warrants merit. I am sure all the others that placed caches and sent coins will be glad to know that you think it is an embarrassment.....You really need to get your head out of your ***.

 

God bless your nephew, and I do wish for a safe and healthy return.

 

Steel City Babes

 

PS I think you missed the point of this topic...i.e. Agenda caches and what is or should be perceived as an Agenda and do you (in general) feel it is okay to have GS limit your wording off such said Agenda's

 

VERY WELL PUT, They just finished up their VBC Meet-n-Greet Redux (Hail and Farewell) (Event Cache) The one we all sent thing to will be coming up the 17th. What a great bunch of guys. Thanks Steel City Baby. USA 45

Edited by USA 45
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steel city babes

+steel city babes

Posted
Posted
PS I think you missed the point of this topic.

Not one bit. You missed mine or you would agree with me. I am happy to report your post though. Maybe it will help you get your head in a better place than what you told me to do with mine.

 

I maintain this cache has no Agenda other than someone trying to make one magically appear.

 

No, I wouldn't, you support the troops your way, I support it mine. I got your point and your AGENDA.....but you really shouldn't pass judgement on how others support the troops. It is ridiculous.

 

I am fairly certain you won't have to report me because I am sure someone has their eyes on the topic at all times...

 

Steel City Babes

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USA 45

+USA 45

Posted
Posted (edited)

some people get all worked up over nothing these days. there is the freedom of speech in this country. if you choose to honor your son and daughter as troops and defenders of our country, you should be able to do it in any way you choose.

 

No you shouldn't.

 

No, You have opened up another can of Worm's

I feel I can honor anyone I wish and How I wish to do so. I have Ultimate Sactifice Dog Tag coins out for every soldier we have lost here in the state of Ohio and a few more out side this state , Including your's CALIFORINA

I might not set up a cache that way but NO ONE TELL's Me how to Honor any one and that in cludes you. I think the OP of this tread needs to ask their MODRATOR to shut it down before this can of worms goes any fruther. USA 45

Edited by USA 45
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USA 45

+USA 45

Posted
Posted (edited)

Can you go spray paint "support our troops" on someone's house? Nope. You cannot do it anyway you want. This site has decided you cannot spray paint their site.

 

What a joke and your a Moderator ?

 

I guess to just keep the ball rolling

Edited by USA 45
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tozainamboku

+tozainamboku

Posted
Posted

PS I think you missed the point of this topic...i.e. Agenda caches and what is or should be perceived as an Agenda and do you (in general) feel it is okay to have GS limit your wording off such said Agenda's

I think a lot of people are missing the point of the guideline.

 

Geocaching is like MySpace, Facebook, YouTube, and many other sites that depend on user generated content. All of these sites have terms of use to allow the sites to remove material they deem inappropriate to their site. Some of these sites specifically allow users to post material with a religious, political, charitable, or social agenda. Some have special areas where this is allowed and forbid it in other areas. Still some others have rules that limit what users can post even more than geocaching.com. Geocaching could potentially isolate itself from having problems with advertisers or even users who object to an agenda on the cache page by putting a disclaimer on the page saying that they are not responsible for the content of a user page. Instead, Groundspeak has decided that geocaching is a light, fun activity, not a platform for users to espouse an agenda. You don't need to put your feelings on the cache page. There are plenty of other web sites where you can post that you support the troops. You can even post here.

 

I think one issue may be guidelines creep. For along time the solicitation guideline was just that. You couldn't solicit people to donate, volunteer, or act on behalf of any religious, political, charitable, or social organization. Caches that said "Support the Troops" or "Thank You to the police and firemen" were quite popular. You could even post factual information about businesses and organizations if you were careful to avoid saying anything that solicited. Somewhere along the line the interpretation changed. My suspicion is that we had complaints from people who tried to get a cache with an agenda approved and used some existing cache as argument for theirs. The volunteer reviewers wanted a line drawn that was easier to argue why one cache was acceptable and another wasn't. This move the agenda to any cache with a perceived agenda. No longer did you have to solicit. Just expressing an opinion that could be construed as an agenda could now get a cache disallowed. It is probably time for the pendulum to swing back the other way but that probably will take people taking a closer non-emotional look at where the line should be. Remember that geocaching is a light, fun activity. What should be allowed on the cache page?

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UncleJimbo

+UncleJimbo

Posted
Posted

I maintain this cache has no Agenda other than someone trying to make one magically appear.

How can you "maintain this cache has no agenda", when one post earlier (see below), you admitted there was an agenda?

 

Wow no offense but the OP did put her money where her mouth is? She definitely channeled her passion. She placed a cache to honor her children and sent some factual/recognition to the American Legion, who has a larger agenda then any of us in regards to vets and our troops.

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USA 45

+USA 45

Posted
Posted

I maintain this cache has no Agenda other than someone trying to make one magically appear.

How can you "maintain this cache has no agenda", when one post earlier (see below), you admitted there was an agenda?

 

Wow no offense but the OP did put her money where her mouth is? She definitely channeled her passion. She placed a cache to honor her children and sent some factual/recognition to the American Legion, who has a larger agenda then any of us in regards to vets and our troops.

 

I think they need to Out law Quoteing here ,to many people are cutting and using it as a defense for their needs lol

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Rockin Roddy

+Rockin Roddy

Posted
Posted
I remember when this was a game about using a GPS to find a container. I am a huge supporter of the military, but this topic is an embarrassment.

I would really like for you to define embarrassment...embarrassment to who or what? Please feel free to e-mail me if you like on your thoughts. I don't want to read too much into the word embarrassment...but I fail to see the embarrassment in the topic...ie AGENDA caches and people stating their opinions.

I'm sorry, but if you really want to show support for the troops, putting one line on a geocache page isn't a whole lot of support.

 

Put your money where your mouth is. Volunteer at a VA hospital. Volunteer for the USO. Really support them by sending care packages to any unit overseas. Send them letters for heavens sake. Putting "Support our troops" on a cache page means absolutely nothing to the guys that are out there. Taking the time that has been put into this topic and instead writing them a simple letter would mean a whole lot more to them. You are wasting your time writing this on a cache page. Put your efforts somewhere that would actually mean something to these troops. Write them directly! They will appreciate it so much more.

 

I know. I've had a nephew over in Iraq. He is about to go back. Our family organized "Operation Little Paul." (He is Paul Jr., named after his dad, so we have called him Little Paul. We don't call him that anymore to his face since he can beat most of us up now. :lol: ) We pulled together stuff that he and his unit wanted. He told us about things they really wanted and we sent them. Part of that was just simple letters they could read.

 

If some of you channel your passion in a positive way, you can make a HUGE impact on these guys. I can guarantee you that less than one percent of the troops have any idea what Groundspeak is and could care less about having some line on a cache page. Give them some support they can really see.

 

You want to support the troops? Do it by clicking the link below and acting and not by typing four words on a cache page description.

 

http://www.ustroopcarepackage.com/

 

Wow no offense but the OP did put her money where her mouth is? She definitely channeled her passion. She placed a cache to honor her children and sent some factual/recognition to the American Legion, who has a larger agenda then any of us in regards to vets and our troops. How do you know she isn't doing other things to help the troops outside of GS, we know she has two children, this was one small way she showed her thanks.

 

We also have had various active military persons and vets comment on this cache and others and they think they are good, anytype of support is welcomed. I think the kind thoughts on these pages logged by those that find it offer much encouragement to those in the military who do indeed geocache.

 

I have sent some coins to tsunrisebey that she shipped oversees for an event overseas at Camp Victory for our active members. Check out this thread:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=187065

Most of the comments from the military cachers involved had nothing but wonderful things to say about it. KUDOS to tsun for putting it together. Maybe you should ask them if they find her mission is an "embarrassment." I am pretty sure it will have a huge impact on those that partake in the event. I am sure a few new geocachers my arise from this event since it is giving them something to do on their day off. Wow now that is "embarrassment" yeah yeah that's right...feel the sarcasm

 

Yes it is only a small contribution (her cache and my coins) but who are you to pass judgement on weather either warrants merit. I am sure all the others that placed caches and sent coins will be glad to know that you think it is an embarrassment.....You really need to get your head out of your ***.

 

God bless your nephew, and I do wish for a safe and healthy return.

 

Steel City Babes

 

PS I think you missed the point of this topic...i.e. Agenda caches and what is or should be perceived as an Agenda and do you (in general) feel it is okay to have GS limit your wording off such said Agenda's

 

VERY WELL PUT, They just finished up their VBC Meet-n-Greet Redux (Hail and Farewell) (Event Cache) The one we all sent thing to will be coming up the 17th. What a great bunch of guys. Thanks Steel City Baby. USA 45

I'm not sure you guys understand what this is truly all about! It's about agendas...not patriotism, not who honors whom the best or worst....agendas! The cache in question had an agenda, it supported an organization! The person was told to either modify the page or archive, they chose to archive.

 

I also donated coins to the package Tsun sent over btw!

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JT3Halls

+JT3Halls

Posted
Posted
I remember when this was a game about using a GPS to find a container. I am a huge supporter of the military, but this topic is an embarrassment.

I would really like for you to define embarrassment...embarrassment to who or what? Please feel free to e-mail me if you like on your thoughts. I don't want to read too much into the word embarrassment...but I fail to see the embarrassment in the topic...ie AGENDA caches and people stating their opinions.

I'm sorry, but if you really want to show support for the troops, putting one line on a geocache page isn't a whole lot of support.

 

Put your money where your mouth is. Volunteer at a VA hospital. Volunteer for the USO. Really support them by sending care packages to any unit overseas. Send them letters for heavens sake. Putting "Support our troops" on a cache page means absolutely nothing to the guys that are out there. Taking the time that has been put into this topic and instead writing them a simple letter would mean a whole lot more to them. You are wasting your time writing this on a cache page. Put your efforts somewhere that would actually mean something to these troops. Write them directly! They will appreciate it so much more.

 

I know. I've had a nephew over in Iraq. He is about to go back. Our family organized "Operation Little Paul." (He is Paul Jr., named after his dad, so we have called him Little Paul. We don't call him that anymore to his face since he can beat most of us up now. :lol: ) We pulled together stuff that he and his unit wanted. He told us about things they really wanted and we sent them. Part of that was just simple letters they could read.

 

If some of you channel your passion in a positive way, you can make a HUGE impact on these guys. I can guarantee you that less than one percent of the troops have any idea what Groundspeak is and could care less about having some line on a cache page. Give them some support they can really see.

 

You want to support the troops? Do it by clicking the link below and acting and not by typing four words on a cache page description.

 

http://www.ustroopcarepackage.com/

Well spoken and much appreciated. I know this trip overseas (my 5th) has had a different tone to it from the previous 4, but then this is an election year.

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BVnLJ

+BVnLJ

Posted
Posted

Holy smokes did this get of the original topic .... from what I am reading here this started with the OP being upset with the opinion of a fellow cacher that this cache was not hidden well enough and has now turned into how and where we are permitted to supports our troops in a Groundspeak kind of way. Yikes.

If Groundspeak truly doesn't approve of the wording of the cache listing she could just re-word it to make it honor her children who are now serving and logs could have been written wishing them well, and if she still felt the need to wish "godspeed to our troops", release a coin for that purpose.

 

Going back to the original topic, if she wants to make an easy, (lame cache as it was called), big woop-tee-do. It was her money and time put into the cache and it's location was approved by Groundspeak so I don't see the problem. Personally I would like and try to do this cache and see if it can be done as a drive by at 40 miles an hour LOL. Not everyone likes or is able to do harder kinds of caches and they should be respected as well as the ones that having you hanging from cliffs, or diving to the ocean bottom with man eating sharks, or located in a field of briars and poison ivy. If you don't like cache for whatever reason, just don't do it, really is a simple answer to a simple problem.

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Vinny & Sue Team

+Vinny & Sue Team

Posted
Posted

This thread has way too much drama for me but after 8 pages I have pull out the ace I've been holding - the same exact thing as this thread.

 

I have been asked to change the wording ONE time on a cache I submitted, you know what I CHANGED IT. I was a little ticked at first but I was able to see beyond the computer.

 

Can you see the light, can you see the light

 

Kinda my thoughts too. way too much drama. Change the wording and get on with life!

Exactly! Waay too much drama, way to much drama-queen posturing, way too much "I am a victim" posturing (closely related, of course, to drama queen syndrome), and waay too much sense of entitlement, and then the capstone was discovering that the only reason that the "victim's" cache was archived was because the putative victim (aka the cache owner) had asked Groundspeak to archive it. There is something almost magical about this threat in how it manages to draw drama queens, wannabe victims and entitlement hounds out of the woodwork. Bizarre!

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Sileny Jizda

+Sileny Jizda

Posted
Posted (edited)

My issue with this situation is that the broad terms used to paint the 'guidelines' as they are presently. What is so difficult about saying No XYZ, it's done many places. The facts are if they enforced 'agenda' to the letter there would be no caches anywhere. Cachers place lamp post micros because they like the restaurant or store alot of the time. There is an agenda. They place them in parks to draw attention to the park. There is an agenda, some you even have to pay to gain entry. I think it comes down to the money aspect of the issue because of the exceptions made at the end of the day. Otherwise, the descriptions would only include "Tupperware container containing; XYZ" not exactly a lot of interest in that now is there but hey it's all in the interest of keeping things 'light and fun'.

 

Funny because out of the caches we've found to date I've yet to be converted to any religion, had an overwhelming desire to become an enviromentalist or enlist in any military foreign or domestic.

 

and then the capstone was discovering that the only reason that the "victim's" cache was archived was because the putative victim (aka the cache owner) had asked Groundspeak to archive it.

 

It was most likely done out of frustration of dealing with Groundspeak or a fear that all of what she had placed would be archived. You'd be surprised how many times I've heard that from other people when it comes to theirs caches and situations. While it or may not be the case is is a thought and belief that people have.

Edited by Sileny Jizda
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Harold14370

Harold14370

Posted
Posted

 

Exactly! Waay too much drama, way to much drama-queen posturing, way too much "I am a victim" posturing (closely related, of course, to drama queen syndrome), and waay too much sense of entitlement, and then the capstone was discovering that the only reason that the "victim's" cache was archived was because the putative victim (aka the cache owner) had asked Groundspeak to archive it.

I suspect it probably went something like this:

Groundspeak: Either change it or archive it.

Seedpicker: I'm not changing it.

Groundspeak: Well I guess you decided to archive it.

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wimseyguy

+wimseyguy

Posted
Posted

Just wondering how many of the voices in this thread, both loud and quiet really think that they truly represent the geocaching community in general? :lol:

 

Perhaps there is a reason that only a very small percentage of cachers even bother entering the forums, and an even smaller percentage post in here? :wub:

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ThePetersTrio

+ThePetersTrio

Posted
Posted

Bottom line - it's their house, it's their rules. If we don't like it then we have a choice. We can stop spending our time here (or pull membership) and thus stop our support or we can adapt to their requirements/rules and continue on with the game of geocaching.

 

Berating the moderators here is certainly uncalled for and won't change anything. If you are that upset by this situation then perhaps it's time for you to move on. That is how business is. You don't like what some company is saying or selling, then don't patronize them.

 

Simple.

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ChileHead

+ChileHead

Posted
Posted

I remember when this was a game about using a GPS to find a container. I am a huge supporter of the military, but this topic is an embarrassment.

 

I agree 100%. 99% of the caches I've found have no hint of an agenda on them. I don't know why we need to get all upset about the minority of caches - just edit them and go for a hike. Bring your kids, bring your dog (just don't leave either in the cache.)

 

 

I'm sorry, but if you really want to show support for the troops, putting one line on a geocache page isn't a whole lot of support.

 

Best post yet. That puppy is smart.

 

I remember when the phrase "We support the troops" was a tool of the conservative right (of which I belong). It really meant nothing, but they all spewed it out. What it REALLY meant was "we support the war".

 

Not wanting to be thought of as hating the military, the left adopted the phrase, and usually said it like "We support the troops - bring them home". Of course, this meant "we don't support the war, but we support our men and women who are fighting the war."

 

Both sides were full of themselves. They - for the most part - were spewing poo-poo from their mouths. Words mean nothing - only actions do. You gotta love the people with the mag ribbons on their cars saying "I support the troops". OK - what the heck does that mean anyway? Did you get that ribbon when you donated $1000 to a VA hospital or spent time volunteering there? Nope - it means you spent $5 at Walmart at the check out.

 

I suspect it probably went something like this:

Groundspeak: Either change it or archive it.

Seedpicker: I'm not changing it.

Groundspeak: Well I guess you decided to archive it.

 

Unless you were involved, you really have no idea what went on.

 

Just wondering how many of the voices in this thread, both loud and quiet really think that they truly represent the geocaching community in general?

 

I do. :lol:

Link to comment
El Diablo

+El Diablo

Posted
Posted

was because the putative victim (aka the cache owner) had asked Groundspeak to archive it.

 

It was most likely done out of frustration of dealing with Groundspeak or a fear that all of what she had placed would be archived. You'd be surprised how many times I've heard that from other people when it comes to theirs caches and situations. While it or may not be the case is is a thought and belief that people have.

 

That is ridiculus! Groundspeak isn't going to archive all of anyones cache because there is a disagreement over one. I don't know who you've been talking to, but your getting bad information.

 

El Diablo

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O-Mega

O-Mega

Posted
Posted

This has been argued up and down, left and right. OK, we understand that "agendas" aren't allowed. Could someone please explain what the "agenda" is in this case?

Sure Tracy...the agenda comes about when the OP basically endorses the organization in question. She tells you a bit of it's history and is basically "advertising" for the org. This is no longer allowed either in the cache descriptions or events (can't mention a restaurant where you're hosting the event more than ONE time on the event page...you CAN add a clickable link with the restaurant info like menu, hours etc).

 

I know it's a bit hard to understand, and even harder to set up an event/cache page. Once you get it down, it's simple as usual!! This change came about recently...MiGO members learned fast as we had a bit of "help" in the learning process!! ;-)

 

The clickable link was suggested by myself and a few others for this case...was ignored as far as I can tell!

 

First of all, I'm not Tracy. So what you're saying is that all those caches that mention Wal-Mart, public parks, libraries, and so on are promoting agendas.

 

Sorry, must be 2 TnT's on this site...

 

YES, according to the new guidelines, those are agendas. Now comes the slippery slope of it all. IF anyone now has a problem with any of these older caches, they can simply report them to cause all kinds of problems for the reviewers and themselves. I hope people are smart enough to NOT do this....but....

 

Well it's obvious that it WILL happen as the cache in question had already been published. There are many anti-Military folks out there that get a jolly from causing these kind of problems. So this is not dead by any means.

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O-Mega

O-Mega

Posted
Posted

I would like to see a number of Geocachers who are currently or have served in the military. I think it might be a surprising number. I know we would never get a full count since not all members read the forums. It would be interesting to know.

 

Well, there was a thread about How did you serve? with alot of posts and MAGC has over 400, so I venture to guess the are quite a few more who have not posted there or joined MAGC.

 

 

Here's a thread.

 

People ought to check out some of the names who have posted there before any further slandering about who hates what.

 

Been trying to read up on what has transpired overnight on this topic. I personally know quite a few ex-military cachers like myself. Not all belong to MAGC or post to this forum. It's ashame that we personally can't voice our opinion on something on the cache pages. It's not Groundspeak that's signing off on that opinion. My only problem is that we have seemed to allow agendas to be "grandfathered" in. Some that I personally don't support. That's ok. That's why I wore the uniform and would do it again. Freedom of Speech.

 

Ummm, yes it IS!! You may have written up the cache/event page, but GS OWNS the site this page is on! GS has to be accountable for ANYTHING posted on their site including cache/event pages!!

 

You said it yourself right here....there's already agendas out there which you yourself don't agree with! You might be able to look the other way and ignore these, some can't. Some get all worked up and cause a stink about something they don't agree with giving cause for the guidelines which are now in place! Since GS wouldn't want to discriminate, they decided not to allow ANY agendas (which is the proper way to go IMHO)...this "protects" all from being nsulted by someone else's agenda!!

Sooo, does that mean that TPTB endorse everything that has been said on this thread? I think not! Many sites distance themselves by having a clause in their guidelines saying something to the effect that they are not responsible for the content of the posts on their site. Now I don't have the time or inclination to go look, but I bet their is something here that follows those lines as well.

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Motorcycle_Mama

Motorcycle_Mama

Posted
Posted (edited)
Well it's obvious that it WILL happen as the cache in question had already been published. There are many anti-Military folks out there that get a jolly from causing these kind of problems. So this is not dead by any means.

Did you even read the whole thread? This is NOT about people being anti-military at all.

 

I'm PRO-MILITARY!! One Hundred and Fifty Percent!!!!!!! My dad went to the Naval Academy. He battled throughout the Cold War ... and WON! I lived on Naval Bases growing up. My friends in college were all in ROTC. My best friend's husband is in the Navy now. My sister works will all former Navy SEALs. My sister-in-law's father went to West Point. I live in a city with the largest naval base in the world.

 

That's not the point. I still think that the cache page expressed an agenda.

Edited by Motorcycle_Mama
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Hockeyhick

+Hockeyhick

Posted
Posted (edited)

You are correct.

 

The only agenda was a lady...wanting to publicly honor her children.

 

Geocaching.com should be proud that she chose this hobby and this site to do so, and ashamed that this is even an issue.

 

I've not forgotten that this is a business, but one in which we, as customers, should always have an input.

 

Thanks for the forum and also the ability to log caches online so others can share in their viewpoints.

Edited by Hockeyhick
Link to comment
O-Mega

O-Mega

Posted
Posted

I remember when this was a game about using a GPS to find a container. I am a huge supporter of the military, but this topic is an embarrassment.

 

I agree wholeheartedly, the reviewers and the person who reported the cache should follow your example.

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Harold14370

Harold14370

Posted
Posted

I suspect it probably went something like this:

Groundspeak: Either change it or archive it.

Seedpicker: I'm not changing it.

Groundspeak: Well I guess you decided to archive it.

 

Unless you were involved, you really have no idea what went on.

Maybe not, but neither does anybody else, so it's not really accurate to say everything is settled.

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Sileny Jizda

+Sileny Jizda

Posted
Posted (edited)

...was because the putative victim (aka the cache owner) had asked Groundspeak to archive it.

 

It was most likely done out of frustration of dealing with Groundspeak or a fear that all of what she had placed would be archived. You'd be surprised how many times I've heard that from other people when it comes to theirs caches and situations. While it or may not be the case is is a thought and belief that people have.

 

That is ridiculus! Groundspeak isn't going to archive all of anyones cache because there is a disagreement over one. I don't know who you've been talking to, but your getting bad information.

 

El Diablo

 

I just know what I've been told by several individuals and have had no reason to doubt them. Also, more than one person has the same impression in regards to placing caches and being able to keep their active caches as well if an issue was found with one that had been placed and later complained about. I don't think it's that far of a stretch either considering the comments made here basically telling people if they don't like it to pound sand. Take it as you will.

 

I've had dealings only with Keystone and I've found him to be fair but firm in all of our dealings. I've only one cache that I still, to this day, have no real understanding over why it had to be changed to be deemed acceptable to him. The reasoning wasn't consistent either. I won't go into details over it because this is neither the time nor place and I made the needed changes in order to have it published. As a result of that one cache, though, I've erred on the side of making cache descriptions as plain as possible lest I should offend anyone. Does that make it right? Nope not by a long shot. I personally don't agree with letting 0.5% of the population dictate how the majority should think, speak, feel, or do. In this instance it's clearly the majority that didn't have an issue with the cache the original poster had published by a reviewer that deemed it acceptable to begin with after slight alteration.

 

Using the OP's instance as precedent then virtually every cache would be archived because there was a reason/agenda the placement was made to begin with. Either change the rules or be more specific as to what cannot be published. Being vague does nothing but cause more frustration.

Edited by Sileny Jizda
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brokenoaks

+brokenoaks

Posted
Posted (edited)

First off, I am a veteran of the Viet Nam War so I am no stranger to conflicting opinions. I am very active in veteran’s issues and I recognize an agenda when I see one. Although the cause may be very noble, a cache located at a Legion hall that is set up for the purpose of honoring someone’s children serving in a war zone has a rather obvious agenda. Should it be deactivated for this infraction? By strict interpretation of the rules, probably so. There in lies the problem. Rules are set up and someone has to interpret them. Often the interpreter’s personality influences that decision. Fortunately we have procedures in place to deal with decisions we may disagree with. Thank a Veteran for the freedom we have to disagree and discuss issues in an open forum like this. (now, straight up theirs an agenda for you). However this plays out I hope no one lets it change how they feel about geocaching and Groundspeak in general. After all it’s just personalities and like other body parts we all have one.

Edited by brokenoaks
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O-Mega

O-Mega

Posted
Posted
Well it's obvious that it WILL happen as the cache in question had already been published. There are many anti-Military folks out there that get a jolly from causing these kind of problems. So this is not dead by any means.

Did you even read the whole thread? This is NOT about people being anti-military at all.

 

I'm PRO-MILITARY!! One Hundred and Fifty Percent!!!!!!! My dad went to the Naval Academy. He battled throughout the Cold War ... and WON! I lived on Naval Bases growing up. My friends in college were all in ROTC. My best friend's husband is in the Navy now. My sister works will all former Navy SEALs. My sister-in-law's father went to West Point. I live in a city with the largest naval base in the world.

 

That's not the point. I still think that the cache page expressed an agenda.

 

Hmm, so that makes you pro military? I just find it interesting that there has been a SPECIFIC rule against caches with "Support the Troops" on them. Are there any SPECIFIC rules against "Support the (enter any group here)"? I think not! Sorry, something smells, and it's not the pier.

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Motorcycle_Mama

Motorcycle_Mama

Posted
Posted
Hmm, so that makes you pro military? I just find it interesting that there has been a SPECIFIC rule against caches with "Support the Troops" on them. Are there any SPECIFIC rules against "Support the (enter any group here)"? I think not! Sorry, something smells, and it's not the pier.

Well, I certainly don't need to prove to you that I'm pro-military.

 

And yes, there are specific rules against "Support (enter any group here)" on cache pages. It's called the Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines which have been referenced several times in this thread.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

Caches that Solicit

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

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O-Mega

O-Mega

Posted
Posted

I just find it interesting that there has been a SPECIFIC rule against caches with "Support the Troops" on them.

 

Obviously not

 

Now I guess that one will be "re-reviewed" too. As this post clearly states ther IS a SPECIFIC rule against them.

 

I have read this thread after receiving several messages about it.

 

The only thing that troubles me are the suggestions that the reviewer is pursuing his own personal agenda in regards to this cache. That is not the case, and I thank those few posters who noted this. The reviewers are under very clear instructions not to publish "Support our Troops" caches -- even the mere mention of those words is enough to flag a cache and hold it until it's fixed. I've lost count of how many "agenda" caches I've handled. Add to the "Support our Troops" caches all the disease awareness caches and religious-themed caches, and it's quite a bit of work. The number of replies to this thread rather proves the point -- it is a subject that promotes emotional responses, none of which have anything to do with GPS receivers.

 

Enforcing the "no agenda" guideline has absolutely nothing to do with my personal feelings. As it happens, I am a supporter of US military policies, a committed Christian, and a member of a family directly affected by a number of scary diseases. That doesn't matter. It's Groundspeak's site, and they'd like it to stay free of social, political and religious agendas. They're little boxes in the woods, not platforms. I can talk about politics at a politics website and I can talk about religion with my prayer group. But if I want to be a volunteer for Groundspeak, I need to follow their instructions. A reviewer who is adamantly opposed to the war should take the same approach to a "Support our Troops" cache, and an agnostic reviewer should deal with a religious-themed cache the same way that I do.

 

If some other caches with agendas have slipped through, or been edited after being published, that doesn't justify listing the next one to come through the review process.

 

Please stop calling the reviewer names or suggesting that he's pursuing some sort of personal vendetta against this or any similarly-themed cache. I would have handled it the same way. Thank you.

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O-Mega

O-Mega

Posted
Posted
Hmm, so that makes you pro military? I just find it interesting that there has been a SPECIFIC rule against caches with "Support the Troops" on them. Are there any SPECIFIC rules against "Support the (enter any group here)"? I think not! Sorry, something smells, and it's not the pier.

Well, I certainly don't need to prove to you that I'm pro-military.

 

And yes, there are specific rules against "Support (enter any group here)" on cache pages. It's called the Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines which have been referenced several times in this thread.

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx

 

Caches that Solicit

Solicitations are off-limits. For example, caches perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is supposed to be a light, fun activity, not a platform for an agenda.

 

No proof is necessary.

 

As for the guidelines, that is the point of contention. Solicitation being wrapped up with agenda without further clarification seems to mean that the page listing can't SOLICIT for those purposes, is doesnt mean they can not be mentioned.

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tozainamboku

+tozainamboku

Posted
Posted

Hmm, so that makes you pro military? I just find it interesting that there has been a SPECIFIC rule against caches with "Support the Troops" on them. Are there any SPECIFIC rules against "Support the (enter any group here)"? I think not! Sorry, something smells, and it's not the pier.

Hmm? That's not how I read what Keystone and the other reviewers have posted. It sounded like the issue is with any cache that has an agenda. I would guess the any cacher who uses their cache page to make a statement that supports any group or organization other than a geocaching group is going to be asked to change the cache page. My understanding is that MAGC members may put their logo on and a link to their site on their cache pages, they have simply been asked not to have additional comments directly on the page. My guess that was because there are other organizaitions of Christian cachers. Perhaps these groups wished to have a religious message on their cache pages. Groundspeak wants cachers to form their own interest groups but they want to make sure that the purpose of these groups is geocaching and not something else. These just so happen to be people who are associated with the military or people who happen to be Christians and also geocache. At their meetings and on their own websites they can promote whatever they like. But on the geocaching.com website they can only promote geocaching.

 

There are many caches that are place in honor of our troops or in honor of police and firemen that have been killed in the line of duty. This apparently used to be allowed. Somewhere along the line it seems the rules were changed. It sounds like the OP could have place a cache in honor of her own children, but somehow went over the line when she thanked all those who served before, currently serving and those who will serve in the future. I would like TPTB to explain where the line is drawn when placing a tribute cache. It may be that any cache place in tribute to a person or organizaiton or maybe even one's pet is no longer allowed? When people are able to find examples where reviewers have recently allow such tributes and other caches with similar tributes had to be reworded, it it likely that Groundspeak has not made the new interpretation clear enough for the reviewers to implement them consistently. If the reviewers can't decide if a cache is OK how do they expect us to know how to comply with the guidelines. That said, there is no doubt in my mind that by adding the historical information about the American Legion in the same paragraph where she thanked those who have served, the OP had a agenda, whether intentional or not. It implied an endorsement of the American Legion.

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Clan Riffster

Clan Riffster

Posted
Posted
What the heck does any of this have to do with Geocaching? Put something in the woods (regular sized please) and make it hard to find... I always thought cache pages were suppose to be related to finding said somethings in the woods (regular sized please)..

Isn't this a direct quote from one of your cache pages, American Honor, GCNR2Q?

"I have seen the face of terror, I have felt the stinging cold of fear. I have lived the times most would say are best forgotten. But at least I can say I am proud of what I was -- a Soldier." -- Author unknown.

 

While enjoying this hunt, please take a moment to reflect on the dedication and sacrifice of members of the armed forces.

This statement, "Please take a moment" is a blatant call for action, which, as we've seen in many a dictionary, is an agenda. Will you be archiving this one any time soon? How does seeing the face of terror and reflecting on dedication have to do with geocaching?

 

Seems a little two sided to me...

 

There is nothing in the guidelines that prevents placing a cache in a interesting location or in providing an interesting writeup that tells the cacher something about the location.

As long as you don't thank anyone. <_<

 

Could someone please explain what the "agenda" is in this case?

Apparently, Groundspeak has its own, top secret dictionary in which thanking folks, expressing pride and offering historical tidbits equals an agenda.

 

This is an excerpt from Wikipedia's page on "political agenda", "Individual people with strong opinions on social or political issues are also often referred to as "having an agenda" or "pushing an agenda"."

Well, I reckon Wikipedia has spoken. Personally, if I were unclear on what a particular word meant, I'd prefer to obtain my definition from a real dictionary, (as several folks here have already done), rather than one that can be edited by anyone with an Internet connection.

 

The biggest problem with your Wiki-definition is that it falls in the face of logic. Your definition indicates that someone who had strong opinions, but never expressed them to anyone, could be said to have an agenda. Promoting your strong opinion in social and political situations could be seen as pushing an agenda, but simply having such thoughts, does not. Unfortunately, in this case, the OP's cache did not qualify as pushing an agenda.

 

If I thanked BillyBobCacher for his way kewl cache, am I pushing an agenda? Apparently, Wiki thinks so, since my thanks would constitute a strong opinion and the global interaction of geocaching certainly meets the criteria for a social issue.

 

Groundspeak has decided that geocaching is a light, fun activity, not a platform for users to espouse an agenda.

Great post! I agree 100% with Groundspeak's "No Agenda" policy. If the cache in question had even so much as hinted at having an agenda, I would've been happily joining forces with those who wanted it changed or archived. However, since the cache in question did not have an agenda, I can't see that their policy applies here.

 

A cache was published by a reviewer after some changes were made. Not an uncommon act. I am not a reviewer, but I'd be willing to guess that part of their job entails checking the cache pages that are submitted for review. Since this cache was published, I'd also hazard a guess that it met the guidelines. Obviously, some caches that don't meet the guidelines occasionally slip through the cracks, but considering the amount of discussion between the cacher and the reviewer prior to publication, I can't honestly believe such was the case here. It's my guess that the reviewer who published this cache checked it with due care to ensure it met the guidelines.

 

My take:

 

Some cacher felt that the cache in question was pushing an agenda, (perhaps they subscribe to Wikipedia too?), and complained about it to a different reviewer. (Enter agenda, stage left) This cacher made a call for action, which is the textbook definition of an agenda. Apparently their call for action wasn't stopped by the reviewer they complained to, as it should have been, with a simple note explaining the real definition of an agenda. Instead, this reviewer contacted the original reviewer and asked that he/she take another look at the cache page. He/She did, and discovered that the cache page read exactly as it did when it passed the guidelines.

 

In my opinion, this is where the train should've stopped. The cache met the guidelines then. It hadn't changed. Suddenly it no longer meets the guidelines, even though the guidelines hadn't changed in this time? Sorry, I can't make the leap.

Link to comment
PhxChem

+PhxChem

Posted
Posted
I'm sorry, but if you really want to show support for the troops, putting one line on a geocache page isn't a whole lot of support.

 

You want to support the troops? Do it by clicking the link below and acting and not by typing four words on a cache page description.

 

While you may indeed be the law (moderator) on this board, you are not the "support the troops" police.....are you? Has the illusion of power gone to your head?

 

Can you go spray paint "support our troops" on someone's house? Nope.

 

Yeah, that's against the law, you see. There I killed your straw man for you. That was easy...but that's the point...a straw man isn't a real argument....you didn't seriously think that's what the poster meant, right? Sounds like something a kid might say to "win" and argument.

 

The unprofessionalism you have shown in this thread is astounding. You said this topic was an embarrassment, then you went on to comment over...and over....and over. Apparently participating in the embarrassment. Instead of stating things manner-of-factly...you decided to get personal. Why? Because they did?

 

Keystone on the other hand....class act. And he kicks butt when it's needed....but always a class act.

 

All moderators are not created equal. <_<

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