unacceptable cache description

[JASTA 11]

My QUESTION was 10 replys back. I see my reviewer is here,how about an answer. Thank you

I took your question as rhetorical. I think I'll keep thinking that.

Excuse me it was not, email the answer if you don't want to answer me here.

OK, the answer to your question is, "it depends."

 

You're welcome.

Thanks Thats all I wanted to know. That makes you think . My next cache ITS IN THE WOODS

I'm thinking more along the lines of my next cache being listed elsewhere.

 

We're with you on that one.

[+Confucius' Cat]

Contrary to popular opinion, it IS OK to type or say "God" in the NewNited States.

 

But it must be followed by "dadgum" to be politically correct.

[+ReadyOrNot]

I'm about as right-wing, love America, pro-"Destroy Islamo-fascism" as you can get... But this is Geocaching folks. What the heck does any of this have to do with Geocaching? Put something in the woods (regular sized please) and make it hard to find... I always thought cache pages were suppose to be related to finding said somethings in the woods (regular sized please)..

 

Can we get back to arguing about geocaching now?

[+UncleJimbo]

I found it hilarious that one of the times I came and looked at this thread, at the top of the page was an advertisement for JOINING THE ARMY!!!

 

Double standards anyone? You can't promote or appreciate the army but we can?!

 

(overbearing formatting removed by me.)

Those are Google ads. They respond to text in the topic. Write to Google.

Or become a Premium Member and never see the Google ads.

[+Sileny Jizda]

I found it hilarious that one of the times I came and looked at this thread, at the top of the page was an advertisement for JOINING THE ARMY!!!

 

Double standards anyone? You can't promote or appreciate the army but we can?!

 

(overbearing formatting removed by me.)

Those are Google ads. They respond to text in the topic. Write to Google.

Or become a Premium Member and never see the Google ads.

 

Or you could download Firefox and use Adblock.

[+Confucius' Cat]

I'm about as right-wing, love America, pro-"Destroy Islamo-fascism" as you can get... But this is Geocaching folks. What the heck does any of this have to do with Geocaching? Put something in the woods (regular sized please) and make it hard to find... I always thought cache pages were suppose to be related to finding said somethings in the woods (regular sized please)..

 

Can we get back to arguing about geocaching now?

OK

 

Conspiracy theory seed here:

 

I just noticed that the cache in question was archived by Michael "at the request of the owner."

 

Very interesting indeed...

 

The owner could not archive her cache herself? Did she REALLY request it to be archived?

 

And what is the point in archiving it, since the illegal "thank you" note is still in the cache description for all to read?

 

And now the owner CAN'T delete the offensive text. This is what she will get if she tries to edit it:

This cache has been archived. You will need to contact the reviewer listed at the bottom of your cache listing or your local cache reviewer to unarchive it.

[Keystone]

When Groundspeak archives a cache on its own initiative, I'm used to seeing notes by Michael saying "Archived by Groundspeak." There's no reason for him to have said anything other than what happened.

[+UncleJimbo]

Anyone remember the Tsunami Charity Virtual that got promptly shut down?

 

As my contribution to this thread, i'm going to post links to a few agenda caches:

 

Chemical Reaction

LOL!

That is a very funny cache. (Though I cringe at the improper usage of "hydrous".)

Thanks for pointing out that cache.

[+FireRef]

In 8 pages, with the exception of the moderator/reviewers, the only two basic responses to the OP's problem were:

 

1) Keep the cache the way it is (or very minor changes) - the vast majority of posts

2) People who can see the viewepoint of the reviewers, and suggest minor changes.

 

No one has said "Archive the cache". No one has said it is that bad. No one has a serious problem with it except for Reviewers/moderators (who are following the company policy) and ... um, that's it.

 

So...

 

Why isn't the company listening to the people who make this site work? Without the players, there's no game. Shouldn't they listen to the people on the site? This hasn't been addressed (unless it is "We make guidelines and we follow them")...

[+UncleJimbo]

I found it hilarious that one of the times I came and looked at this thread, at the top of the page was an advertisement for JOINING THE ARMY!!!

 

Double standards anyone? You can't promote or appreciate the army but we can?!

 

(overbearing formatting removed by me.)

Those are Google ads. They respond to text in the topic. Write to Google.

Or become a Premium Member and never see the Google ads.

 

Or you could download Firefox and use Adblock.

But don't people who use Adblock "hate Freedom"?

[+RonnieGeo]

I'm about as right-wing, love America, pro-"Destroy Islamo-fascism" as you can get... But this is Geocaching folks. What the heck does any of this have to do with Geocaching? Put something in the woods (regular sized please) and make it hard to find... I always thought cache pages were suppose to be related to finding said somethings in the woods (regular sized please)..

 

Can we get back to arguing about geocaching now?

 

I know there have been other replies with a similar message as the one above, but it finally struck me while reading this one.

 

I believe the real problem here (throughout the whole thread) is NOT whether there is an agenda, but rather WHAT IS GEOCACHING. Many replies mentioned that geocaching is not about troops, agendas, tributes, etc. but only about finding containers with a GPS device.

 

I know that I am new to this, and ReadyOrNot and most others have been here a LOT longer, so I will allow that I probably have it wrong, but here it is:

 

To me, geocaching IS about locations, history, landmarks, tributes, themes, etc. It is not about what I find, but the journey there, and the place I end up (let's face it, how many keyholders, decon containers, and ammo cans filled w/.99 cent store items and little erasers can you find before you get bored to tears!). Most geocachers I have run into out there, and at events have said the same - it's about the location or theme, not the actual cache, or about a clever hide (about 50/50).

 

How many times at an event or mini-event trying for FTF have you talked to other cachers about 'that one under the rock, or tree, or LampPost? - isn't it usually... the one at the bombing range, or the VFW, or the historic prison, or the old mine, or the view of the valley, etc...

 

I am not saying this IS what geocaching should be, just what it is to me and my family. No right or wrong here, just noticing that your definition of geocaching will probably be what puts you on one side of this issue or the other. I won't threaten to pull membership, unless all of the interesting caches go away. I find that I no longer go out to "another keyholder in the park" caches unless it's a park I haven't been to.

 

For me - I will keep going to the caches that have SOMETHING to say, or teach or show - at least as long as they are still there!!!

[+Confucius' Cat]

In 8 pages, with the exception of the moderator/reviewers, the only two basic responses to the OP's problem were:

 

1) Keep the cache the way it is (or very minor changes) - the vast majority of posts

2) People who can see the viewepoint of the reviewers, and suggest minor changes.

 

No one has said "Archive the cache". No one has said it is that bad. No one has a serious problem with it except for Reviewers/moderators (who are following the company policy) and ... um, that's it.

 

So...

 

Why isn't the company listening to the people who make this site work? Without the players, there's no game. Shouldn't they listen to the people on the site? This hasn't been addressed (unless it is "We make guidelines and we follow them")...

It seems the company did not archive the cache but at the request of the owner. While that is a little strange as i pointed out earlier, it cannot be inferred that the company isn't listening to us. The best explanation I can come up with that does not involve outright lying and deceit is that the OP tired of the drama and either did not know that she could archive the cache herself or she wanted to shift the blame in some way.

 

In any case, it seems this horse is dead. (Now we can stop beating it and start the postmortem)

[+FireRef]

... which is what? Getting the company to change a policy that most people disagree with?

[+tozainamboku]

To me, geocaching IS about locations, history, landmarks, tributes, themes, etc. It is not about what I find, but the journey there, and the place I end up (let's face it, how many keyholders, decon containers, and ammo cans filled w/.99 cent store items and little erasers can you find before you get bored to tears!). Most geocachers I have run into out there, and at events have said the same - it's about the location or theme, not the actual cache, or about a clever hide (about 50/50).

 

How many times at an event or mini-event trying for FTF have you talked to other cachers about 'that one under the rock, or tree, or LampPost? - isn't it usually... the one at the bombing range, or the VFW, or the historic prison, or the old mine, or the view of the valley, etc...

There is nothing in the guidelines that prevents placing a cache in a interesting location or in providing an interesting writeup that tells the cacher something about the location. You clearly can have a cache at a war memorial. You could provide some facts about the memorial and what it commemorates. You may need to be careful not to put your opinion on the page - like saying "I'm thankful to the men and women whose sacrifice is commemorated here" or "I wish we never have to fight another war again". But do you really have to state your opinion to make it an exceptional cache? No. The visitor will stop when looking for the cache and will feel whatever emotions that they personally will have. They may say something in their log about how much they were moved. Or they may just grab the cache, sign the log, and leave a message TFTC.

 

(Are people really hiding caches on bombing ranges? )

[+paleolith]

"God" gets 0 hits, but "Buddah" has 3.

Hey, I've actually found Buddah's Belly.

 

However, it may be worth noting that "Buddha" gets 35 hits.

 

Edward

[+RonnieGeo]

 

(Are people really hiding caches on bombing ranges? )

 

The Barry M. Goldwater Range in Yuma, AZ... Really great place in the desert, just have to get a permit and call first to find out if any areas are closed. Plenty of old mines, crashed planes, and dummy missle parts on the ground!! Also they warn you to stay within 50 ft of marked roads (dirt) and to beware of unexploded ordinance.

 

Lots of desert beauty out there as well.

 

Check these, and view the galleries: GC1AAV9, GC19R98

[+Sileny Jizda]

Or you could download Firefox and use Adblock.

But don't people who use Adblock "hate Freedom"?

 

Nope, I just hate advertisements.

[+JT3Halls]

If they take you as a mod see if you can get me in as a reviewer. There is a case of beer in it for you.

 

Cheapskate! Keystone, I've got a case of 12 year old Scotch.

I would do anything for either the case of beer or the case of 12-year old Scotch, as would any of the 20 guys stationed with me, but alas we are currently stationed in a country with anti-alcohol laws. We just have to wait until our deployment is over before enjoying any of those refreshing beverages. So until then, tip a glass or mug for us.

 

De Oppresso Liber

 

***Sorry to see the CO requested the cache to be archived.

[+Robespierre]

...."Please feel free to find the cache. Any "honor" which may or may not be given to the subject of the statue is purely coincidental and does not necessarily reflect an agenda or policy of the listing website."

 

Would that cover us?

Makes about as much sense as "this coffee is hot..."

Edited April 5, 2008 by Robespierre

[+gof1]

If they take you as a mod see if you can get me in as a reviewer. There is a case of beer in it for you.

 

Cheapskate! Keystone, I've got a case of 12 year old Scotch.

I would do anything for either the case of beer or the case of 12-year old Scotch, as would any of the 20 guys stationed with me, but alas we are currently stationed in a country with anti-alcohol laws. We just have to wait until our deployment is over before enjoying any of those refreshing beverages. So until then, tip a glass or mug for us.

 

De Oppresso Liber

 

***Sorry to see the CO requested the cache to be archived.

 

I will most certainly hoist a few in your honor.

Stay safe.

[+*TnT*]

This has been argued up and down, left and right. OK, we understand that "agendas" aren't allowed. Could someone please explain what the "agenda" is in this case?

[+jtbrady01]

I would like to see a number of Geocachers who are currently or have served in the military. I think it might be a surprising number. I know we would never get a full count since not all members read the forums. It would be interesting to know.

 

Well, there was a thread about How did you serve? with alot of posts and MAGC has over 400, so I venture to guess the are quite a few more who have not posted there or joined MAGC.

 

 

Here's a thread.

 

People ought to check out some of the names who have posted there before any further slandering about who hates what.

 

Been trying to read up on what has transpired overnight on this topic. I personally know quite a few ex-military cachers like myself. Not all belong to MAGC or post to this forum. It's ashame that we personally can't voice our opinion on something on the cache pages. It's not Groundspeak that's signing off on that opinion. My only problem is that we have seemed to allow agendas to be "grandfathered" in. Some that I personally don't support. That's ok. That's why I wore the uniform and would do it again. Freedom of Speech.

[+Rockin Roddy]

This has been argued up and down, left and right. OK, we understand that "agendas" aren't allowed. Could someone please explain what the "agenda" is in this case?

Sure Tracy...the agenda comes about when the OP basically endorses the organization in question. She tells you a bit of it's history and is basically "advertising" for the org. This is no longer allowed either in the cache descriptions or events (can't mention a restaurant where you're hosting the event more than ONE time on the event page...you CAN add a clickable link with the restaurant info like menu, hours etc).

 

I know it's a bit hard to understand, and even harder to set up an event/cache page. Once you get it down, it's simple as usual!! This change came about recently...MiGO members learned fast as we had a bit of "help" in the learning process!! ;-)

 

The clickable link was suggested by myself and a few others for this case...was ignored as far as I can tell!

Edited April 5, 2008 by Rockin Roddy

[+Rockin Roddy]

I would like to see a number of Geocachers who are currently or have served in the military. I think it might be a surprising number. I know we would never get a full count since not all members read the forums. It would be interesting to know.

 

Well, there was a thread about How did you serve? with alot of posts and MAGC has over 400, so I venture to guess the are quite a few more who have not posted there or joined MAGC.

 

 

Here's a thread.

 

People ought to check out some of the names who have posted there before any further slandering about who hates what.

 

Been trying to read up on what has transpired overnight on this topic. I personally know quite a few ex-military cachers like myself. Not all belong to MAGC or post to this forum. It's ashame that we personally can't voice our opinion on something on the cache pages. It's not Groundspeak that's signing off on that opinion. My only problem is that we have seemed to allow agendas to be "grandfathered" in. Some that I personally don't support. That's ok. That's why I wore the uniform and would do it again. Freedom of Speech.

 

Ummm, yes it IS!! You may have written up the cache/event page, but GS OWNS the site this page is on! GS has to be accountable for ANYTHING posted on their site including cache/event pages!!

 

You said it yourself right here....there's already agendas out there which you yourself don't agree with! You might be able to look the other way and ignore these, some can't. Some get all worked up and cause a stink about something they don't agree with giving cause for the guidelines which are now in place! Since GS wouldn't want to discriminate, they decided not to allow ANY agendas (which is the proper way to go IMHO)...this "protects" all from being nsulted by someone else's agenda!!

[Motorcycle_Mama]

A few things keep bothering me about what some people have been posting.

 

Several people keep saying that the reviewer "must have an agenda" or "must be singling out" this cache. It's been repeatedly pointed out that the review was not initiated by the reviewer but by those above the reviewer.

 

Also, some people keep trying to imply that those that think that the cache owner is espousing an agenda are "offended" by the sentiments she expressed. This is not necessarily true either. It's possible to AGREE with the sentiment and STILL think that it's an agenda.

 

This is an excerpt from Wikipedia's page on "political agenda", "Individual people with strong opinions on social or political issues are also often referred to as "having an agenda" or "pushing an agenda"."

 

It is in this context that I believe the cache page expresses an agenda.

 

And I will repeat that I AGREE with the sentiment, but I still think that it is an agenda and as such doesn't belong on the cache page.

[+*TnT*]

This has been argued up and down, left and right. OK, we understand that "agendas" aren't allowed. Could someone please explain what the "agenda" is in this case?

Sure Tracy...the agenda comes about when the OP basically endorses the organization in question. She tells you a bit of it's history and is basically "advertising" for the org. This is no longer allowed either in the cache descriptions or events (can't mention a restaurant where you're hosting the event more than ONE time on the event page...you CAN add a clickable link with the restaurant info like menu, hours etc).

 

I know it's a bit hard to understand, and even harder to set up an event/cache page. Once you get it down, it's simple as usual!! This change came about recently...MiGO members learned fast as we had a bit of "help" in the learning process!! ;-)

 

The clickable link was suggested by myself and a few others for this case...was ignored as far as I can tell!

 

First of all, I'm not Tracy. So what you're saying is that all those caches that mention Wal-Mart, public parks, libraries, and so on are promoting agendas.

[+Rockin Roddy]

In 8 pages, with the exception of the moderator/reviewers, the only two basic responses to the OP's problem were:

 

1) Keep the cache the way it is (or very minor changes) - the vast majority of posts

2) People who can see the viewepoint of the reviewers, and suggest minor changes.

 

No one has said "Archive the cache". No one has said it is that bad. No one has a serious problem with it except for Reviewers/moderators (who are following the company policy) and ... um, that's it.

 

So...

 

Why isn't the company listening to the people who make this site work? Without the players, there's no game. Shouldn't they listen to the people on the site? This hasn't been addressed (unless it is "We make guidelines and we follow them")...

 

I don't see the reviewers/mods having a SERIOUS problem with this (seems the ones having the serious problem with this are those who don't understand this IS an agenda and not allowed any more per recent guideline changes). The PTB asked for a simple change which would allow this cache to be published...nothing no other cache or event page is required to follow now! No singling out, no one is gunning for this ONE cache!

 

The OP had a problem listening to the instructions and felt censored...and then stopped listening and went into injured mode (in my opinion) where she put all blame on the PTB for not allowing her agenda (supporting the org in question). If she'd have listened to many of us who gave her an EASY fix, this would have ended with the cache still up and running! Many of you here jumped BLINDLY onto the bandwagon before even stopping to think what is really being done here...many cried censorship, claimed the PTB to be unpatriotic etc. The truth, TPTB are TRYING to keep this a fun and agenda free area where ALL can come in here and enjoy CACHING (not politics, not any other agenda...hidden, accidental or other)!!

 

A few of you even ranted so boisterously that you slung slanderous shots at the PTB...lucky I'm not in charge as some wouldn't have the site to play with anymore....you want to scream murder and act the martyr, I'd let you be one!

[+SeventhSon]

It's been repeatedly pointed out that the review was not initiated by the reviewer but by those above the reviewer.

 

From a posted email from Mr Ollivander:

 

My e-mail to you was generated by a request to re-review the cache description page. That request came from another cacher and another reviewer.

[+Rockin Roddy]

This has been argued up and down, left and right. OK, we understand that "agendas" aren't allowed. Could someone please explain what the "agenda" is in this case?

Sure Tracy...the agenda comes about when the OP basically endorses the organization in question. She tells you a bit of it's history and is basically "advertising" for the org. This is no longer allowed either in the cache descriptions or events (can't mention a restaurant where you're hosting the event more than ONE time on the event page...you CAN add a clickable link with the restaurant info like menu, hours etc).

 

I know it's a bit hard to understand, and even harder to set up an event/cache page. Once you get it down, it's simple as usual!! This change came about recently...MiGO members learned fast as we had a bit of "help" in the learning process!! ;-)

 

The clickable link was suggested by myself and a few others for this case...was ignored as far as I can tell!

 

First of all, I'm not Tracy. So what you're saying is that all those caches that mention Wal-Mart, public parks, libraries, and so on are promoting agendas.

 

Sorry, must be 2 TnT's on this site...

 

YES, according to the new guidelines, those are agendas. Now comes the slippery slope of it all. IF anyone now has a problem with any of these older caches, they can simply report them to cause all kinds of problems for the reviewers and themselves. I hope people are smart enough to NOT do this....but....

[bogleman]

This thread has way too much drama for me but after 8 pages I have pull out the ace I've been holding - the same exact thing as this thread.

 

I have been asked to change the wording ONE time on a cache I submitted, you know what I CHANGED IT. I was a little ticked at first but I was able to see beyond the computer.

 

Can you see the light, can you see the light

[+*TnT*]

This has been argued up and down, left and right. OK, we understand that "agendas" aren't allowed. Could someone please explain what the "agenda" is in this case?

Sure Tracy...the agenda comes about when the OP basically endorses the organization in question. She tells you a bit of it's history and is basically "advertising" for the org. This is no longer allowed either in the cache descriptions or events (can't mention a restaurant where you're hosting the event more than ONE time on the event page...you CAN add a clickable link with the restaurant info like menu, hours etc).

 

I know it's a bit hard to understand, and even harder to set up an event/cache page. Once you get it down, it's simple as usual!! This change came about recently...MiGO members learned fast as we had a bit of "help" in the learning process!! ;-)

 

The clickable link was suggested by myself and a few others for this case...was ignored as far as I can tell!

 

First of all, I'm not Tracy. So what you're saying is that all those caches that mention Wal-Mart, public parks, libraries, and so on are promoting agendas.

 

Sorry, must be 2 TnT's on this site...

 

YES, according to the new guidelines, those are agendas. Now comes the slippery slope of it all. IF anyone now has a problem with any of these older caches, they can simply report them to cause all kinds of problems for the reviewers and themselves. I hope people are smart enough to NOT do this....but....

 

This is all very sad. Soon your cache description will have to say: "Ammo can - come find it" or "Bison tube - well hidden"

[+ifloydian007]

This has been argued up and down, left and right. OK, we understand that "agendas" aren't allowed. Could someone please explain what the "agenda" is in this case?

Sure Tracy...the agenda comes about when the OP basically endorses the organization in question. She tells you a bit of it's history and is basically "advertising" for the org. This is no longer allowed either in the cache descriptions or events (can't mention a restaurant where you're hosting the event more than ONE time on the event page...you CAN add a clickable link with the restaurant info like menu, hours etc).

 

I know it's a bit hard to understand, and even harder to set up an event/cache page. Once you get it down, it's simple as usual!! This change came about recently...MiGO members learned fast as we had a bit of "help" in the learning process!! ;-)

 

The clickable link was suggested by myself and a few others for this case...was ignored as far as I can tell!

 

First of all, I'm not Tracy. So what you're saying is that all those caches that mention Wal-Mart, public parks, libraries, and so on are promoting agendas.

 

Sorry, must be 2 TnT's on this site...

 

YES, according to the new guidelines, those are agendas. Now comes the slippery slope of it all. IF anyone now has a problem with any of these older caches, they can simply report them to cause all kinds of problems for the reviewers and themselves. I hope people are smart enough to NOT do this....but....

 

This is all very sad. Soon your cache description will have to say: "Ammo can - come find it" or "Bison tube - well hidden"

 

After GS censors it, more like "**** can - come find it" or "***** tube - well hidden"....

 

Then were will we be?

[Keystone]

After GS censors it, more like "**** can - come find it" or "***** tube - well hidden"....

 

Then were will we be?

Sitting at home on your asterisk? Or, have some fun and go out geocaching.

[+Rockin Roddy]

This has been argued up and down, left and right. OK, we understand that "agendas" aren't allowed. Could someone please explain what the "agenda" is in this case?

Sure Tracy...the agenda comes about when the OP basically endorses the organization in question. She tells you a bit of it's history and is basically "advertising" for the org. This is no longer allowed either in the cache descriptions or events (can't mention a restaurant where you're hosting the event more than ONE time on the event page...you CAN add a clickable link with the restaurant info like menu, hours etc).

 

I know it's a bit hard to understand, and even harder to set up an event/cache page. Once you get it down, it's simple as usual!! This change came about recently...MiGO members learned fast as we had a bit of "help" in the learning process!! ;-)

 

The clickable link was suggested by myself and a few others for this case...was ignored as far as I can tell!

 

First of all, I'm not Tracy. So what you're saying is that all those caches that mention Wal-Mart, public parks, libraries, and so on are promoting agendas.

 

Sorry, must be 2 TnT's on this site...

 

YES, according to the new guidelines, those are agendas. Now comes the slippery slope of it all. IF anyone now has a problem with any of these older caches, they can simply report them to cause all kinds of problems for the reviewers and themselves. I hope people are smart enough to NOT do this....but....

 

This is all very sad. Soon your cache description will have to say: "Ammo can - come find it" or "Bison tube - well hidden"

 

After GS censors it, more like "**** can - come find it" or "***** tube - well hidden"....

 

Then were will we be?

 

Really?

 

Check out my event page which was published AFTER the guidelines and was given the once over several times resulting in a few changes: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...22-bf3e3d390221

 

Sure seems like a bunch of words there...you may also note the clickable link at the bottom of the description. This is how you are allowed to add info w/o putting it right out in front of everyone! THIS was suggested more than once to solve this problem, the OP decided to stop trying and quit!

 

I'm finding your use of "censor" when speaking about GS like this to be a bit off the mark. There's TONS of words you aren't allowed to use every day (try fire in a theater or bomb in an airport), asking all to be considerate of one another ISN'T censorship, it's reality in today's world! GS is actually trying to keep their site friendly for ALL since we aren't ALL Americans using this site! It's not that hard to understand once you stop viewing it as a slap towards patriotism. Claiming GS is censoring someone's work is kinda rude IMHO.

 

Had this come about because of a cache called "I'm loving it" and placed at a McD's, would we be hearing the same outrage?? Nope, doubtful! The outrage is because some perceive this as a slant to Americans and being patriotic....far from it!

[+Rockin Roddy]

After GS censors it, more like "**** can - come find it" or "***** tube - well hidden"....

 

Then were will we be?

Sitting at home on your asterisk? Or, have some fun and go out geocaching.

 

Yep, great idea Keystone!! Right after work, I'm off to hide about 20 caches for the event I linked to above!

[+edscott]

152 happy finders and one complainer. From reading this forum one could get the idea that most cachers agree with GC.Com on this one, but in the real caching world outside the forums they have certainly gone against their membership.

[+Team Cotati]

152 happy finders and one complainer. From reading this forum one could get the idea that most cachers agree with GC.Com on this one, but in the real caching world outside the forums they have certainly gone against their membership.

 

Hard to believe, isn't it?

[+3doxies]

After GS censors it, more like "**** can - come find it" or "***** tube - well hidden"....

 

Then were will we be?

Sitting at home on your asterisk? Or, have some fun and go out geocaching.

 

Funny how attempts at being so pure and utterly agenda-free seem to just suck a whole lot of the enjoyment out of it...kinda get tired lookin over my shoulder, wonderin when the PC police will knock at my door. Most zealously pursued attempts to avoid any and all agendas (or, whatever else trips your PC-ish trigger point) end up similarly...kinda like the scene from "Red October"..."You arrogant *******! You've killed us!"

 

Yet, let commercialistic creep continue...but I guess that's survival agenda, thus OK?

[+steel city babes]

In 8 pages, with the exception of the moderator/reviewers, the only two basic responses to the OP's problem were:

 

1) Keep the cache the way it is (or very minor changes) - the vast majority of posts

2) People who can see the viewepoint of the reviewers, and suggest minor changes.

 

No one has said "Archive the cache". No one has said it is that bad. No one has a serious problem with it except for Reviewers/moderators (who are following the company policy) and ... um, that's it.

 

So...

 

Why isn't the company listening to the people who make this site work? Without the players, there's no game. Shouldn't they listen to the people on the site? This hasn't been addressed (unless it is "We make guidelines and we follow them")...

 

I don't see the reviewers/mods having a SERIOUS problem with this (seems the ones having the serious problem with this are those who don't understand this IS an agenda and not allowed any more per recent guideline changes). The PTB asked for a simple change which would allow this cache to be published...nothing no other cache or event page is required to follow now! No singling out, no one is gunning for this ONE cache!

 

The OP had a problem listening to the instructions and felt censored...and then stopped listening and went into injured mode (in my opinion) where she put all blame on the PTB for not allowing her agenda (supporting the org in question). If she'd have listened to many of us who gave her an EASY fix, this would have ended with the cache still up and running! Many of you here jumped BLINDLY onto the bandwagon before even stopping to think what is really being done here...many cried censorship, claimed the PTB to be unpatriotic etc. The truth, TPTB are TRYING to keep this a fun and agenda free area where ALL can come in here and enjoy CACHING (not politics, not any other agenda...hidden, accidental or other)!!

 

A few of you even ranted so boisterously that you slung slanderous shots at the PTB...lucky I'm not in charge as some wouldn't have the site to play with anymore....you want to scream murder and act the martyr, I'd let you be one!

 

This is crap, so the mere mention of the history of the location of the cache is indeed an agenda, then there are a heck of a lot of caches that need archived- "I place this cache in a seldomly visited quaint park" --archive please has an agenda others may not like---ie more foot traffic to this quaint park). She mentions a big thank you to our troops KUDOS to her. Her wording is fine, it doesn't make me want to go and donate/volunteer or whatever at the local American Legion....Do they have beer there If anything it makes me more aware. If awareness and agenda go hand in hand so be it because I don't know to many people that aren't trying to better themselves/educate themselves on a regular basis. I like caches that educate me or provide some history about the location. the only thing I know about the American Legion prior to reading the cache page was that was were the summer league baseball games were held for the elite baseball players in the area---yes I know shame on me, but that is one reason I like geocaching...it isn't just go find the ammo can in the woods description.

 

I don't remember anyone crying censorship at all, most said was "We" don't see the perceived AGENDA.

 

Let's talk about the caches that are grandfathered in...I think they too should be made to edit or archive, this sends a mixed message to me and newbies, and portrays the exact agenda message GC.com is trying to eliminate. The archived message should indicate gc.com is going in a new direction, cache doesn't meet "NO" agenda guidelines but had an excellent run. This would be a black eye if someone ever stumbled across them. Now do you think GC.com wants those kinda of questions to arise....from newbies, when they have some hard headed old schoolers around here.

 

I do think if we as geocachers come across an agenda cache it should be reported afterall that was what started this topic, acute awareness of the rules and guidelines by a particular cacher, which they suggested should be re-reviewed. We do have to police the site, the reviewers are human and can make mistakes nothing wrong with politely pointing out and error or getting clarification. I would think gc.com should/would welcome any and all reported AGENDA caches afterall "we" (meaning gc.com and myself) don't want a blackeye do we. I surely don't want to be linked to that Agenda, do I. I mean because I do use the site I must do/say and believe everything the site says and has to offer. You are what you eat right....very similiar to previous post if you are friends with bully you too must be a bully....Give me a break.... you define yourself by your own actions.

Trust me I don't want to see agendas on the cache pages as mentioned there is a time and place for everything or advertisements(for that matter)

 

But like another has mentioned it all boils down to $$$$ and if you think not then you are sadly mistaken. CITO is a perfect examples...it generates revenue for the site. Geocoins and TBs are another example of items that generate money and some have very blatent AGENDAs. But honestly who is going to deny this awesome agenda(CITO) -looking forward to my first CITO event This site has turned into a profitable business and if you think not why would Garmin put in a bid to purchase (or was that rumor?). Heck that is what businesses are for. They apparently want their cake and to eat it too.....I wish I would have thought of geocaching.......

 

Anyways I am disappointed in the outcome of this cache being archived(albeit owner's choice), but I am not going to stop using this site-I am way too hooked (not going to play the martyr). Just paid for my PM and went paperless . The site is much more user friendly than the others available. But it doesn't stop me from educating myself about the agenda of gc.com or should I say lack there of or their flip flop. I am not saying the game shouldn't change or evolve because according to others it has. Some for the good some for the bad that is how things go. This is going to make a great topic on Sunday when a bunch of us meet to hunt for a local cache, it will be interesting to see what others who don't visit these forums think. We are only a small majority right now of the whole gc community

 

Steel City Babes

[+ccak123]

some people get all worked up over nothing these days. there is the freedom of speech in this country. if you choose to honor your son and daughter as troops and defenders of our country, you should be able to do it in any way you choose.

[+steel city babes]

After GS censors it, more like "**** can - come find it" or "***** tube - well hidden"....

 

Then were will we be?

Sitting at home on your asterisk? Or, have some fun and go out geocaching.

 

Funny how attempts at being so pure and utterly agenda-free seem to just suck a whole lot of the enjoyment out of it...kinda get tired lookin over my shoulder, wonderin when the PC police will knock at my door. Most zealously pursued attempts to avoid any and all agendas (or, whatever else trips your PC-ish trigger point) end up similarly...kinda like the scene from "Red October"..."You arrogant *******! You've killed us!"

 

Yet, let commercialistic creep continue...but I guess that's survival agenda, thus OK?

 

Excellent Point

 

SCB

[+USA 45]

I would like to see a number of Geocachers who are currently or have served in the military. I think it might be a surprising number. I know we would never get a full count since not all members read the forums. It would be interesting to know.

 

Well, there was a thread about How did you serve? with alot of posts and MAGC has over 400, so I venture to guess the are quite a few more who have not posted there or joined MAGC.

 

 

Here's a thread.

 

People ought to check out some of the names who have posted there before any further slandering about who hates what.

 

Been trying to read up on what has transpired overnight on this topic. I personally know quite a few ex-military cachers like myself. Not all belong to MAGC or post to this forum. It's ashame that we personally can't voice our opinion on something on the cache pages. It's not Groundspeak that's signing off on that opinion. My only problem is that we have seemed to allow agendas to be "grandfathered" in. Some that I personally don't support. That's ok. That's why I wore the uniform and would do it again. Freedom of Speech.

Becareful what you post or you might get a 7 day rest from the forums as one of our MAGC members did after posting his opinion.

Edited April 5, 2008 by USA 45

[+mtn-man]

I remember when this was a game about using a GPS to find a container. I am a huge supporter of the military, but this topic is an embarrassment.

[+DudleyGrunt]

I believe GS needs to alter / remove the agenda clause. It is obvious that some "agendas" don't get as much negative attention as others. As a private organization, they can do what they want, but I think they should opt for a policy more in line with the idea Freedom of Speech and let us members decide what caches we feel are over the line by not doing them. When you try to control speech to keep some people from being offended, you'll never succeed and end up alienating others.

[+steel city babes]

I remember when this was a game about using a GPS to find a container. I am a huge supporter of the military, but this topic is an embarrassment.

I would really like for you to define embarrassment...embarrassment to who or what? Please feel free to e-mail me if you like on your thoughts. I don't want to read too much into the word embarrassment...but I fail to see the embarrassment in the topic...ie AGENDA caches and people stating their opinions.

[+FireRef]

I would like to see a number of Geocachers who are currently or have served in the military. I think it might be a surprising number. I know we would never get a full count since not all members read the forums. It would be interesting to know.

 

Well, there was a thread about How did you serve? with alot of posts and MAGC has over 400, so I venture to guess the are quite a few more who have not posted there or joined MAGC.

 

 

Here's a thread.

 

People ought to check out some of the names who have posted there before any further slandering about who hates what.

 

Been trying to read up on what has transpired overnight on this topic. I personally know quite a few ex-military cachers like myself. Not all belong to MAGC or post to this forum. It's ashame that we personally can't voice our opinion on something on the cache pages. It's not Groundspeak that's signing off on that opinion. My only problem is that we have seemed to allow agendas to be "grandfathered" in. Some that I personally don't support. That's ok. That's why I wore the uniform and would do it again. Freedom of Speech.

Becareful what you post or you might get a 7 day rest from the forums as one of our MAGC members did after posting his opinion.

 

As did I several times - for stating my opinion. They said it was for violating the guidelines, but what it came down to was it was me being censured for disagreeing with the company line.

 

I think, as I've said several times, Jeremy needs to listen a little more to his users, and a little less to his accountant. Support the people who support your site. If the majority feel this is the way it should be done, that is the way it should be done (barring illegal activities, and such...).

[+Trucker Lee]

this is the section the reviewer wants deleted:

 

The text portion that needs to be removed is, "I would like to thank all those who served before, currently serving and those who will serve in the future. God's speed to you! Thank-you for our FREEDOM! The American Legion was chartered by Congress in 1919 as a patriotic, mutual-help, war-time veterans organization. A community-service organization which now numbers nearly 3 million members -- men and women -- in nearly 15,000 American Legion Posts worldwide. These Posts are organized into 55 Departments -- one each for the 50 states, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, France, Mexico, and the Philippines."

 

There is nothing inflammatory or out of line in that passage. I see a simple thank you to those that have and will serve, as well we should thank them for protecting our liberties. And I see simple history of an organization that is a part of many communities. I see no reason for any cacher to have complained about this desription, or any reason to change anything in it.

 

Could it be then that the reviewer for your area has a political or personal agenda? Or someone close to him/her? There is no problem with your description. Refer the reviewer to this thread where so many others also express my viewpoint, might even gather some responses together on a notepad document and send it to the reviewer. Be ready to bounce this up the ladder, don't back down.

 

One person complain and the world has to bend is no way to operate any organization or hobby. Leave the description alone.

[majormajor42]

 

I think, as I've said several times, Jeremy needs to listen a little more to his users, and a little less to his accountant. Support the people who support your site. If the majority feel this is the way it should be done, that is the way it should be done (barring illegal activities, and such...).

 

Perhaps he is also thinking how international this hobby is? I see UK forum is extremely popular as well as the German (Speaking) forum (both former violent non-supporters of US troops).

[Keystone]

As did I several times - for stating my opinion. They said it was for violating the guidelines, but what it came down to was it was me being censured for disagreeing with the company line.

No, moderators take action for violations of the forum guidelines, not the nature of the opinion expressed. You have made several posts in this thread which "disagree with the company line," yet you are still allowed to post. This proves the fallacy of your statement. You are still posting because (thus far) your posts do not violate the forum guidelines. Others have, as noted above.

 

The forum guidelines at issue here are the "respect" guideline -- which applies to Groundspeak and its volunteers, as well as all community members -- and the "no personal attacks" guideline.

 

Could it be then that the reviewer for your area has a political or personal agenda? Or someone close to him/her? There is no problem with your description. Refer the reviewer to this thread where so many others also express my viewpoint, might even gather some responses together on a notepad document and send it to the reviewer. Be ready to bounce this up the ladder, don't back down.

I am going to give you the benefit of a doubt, and assume you haven't read the entire thread, including my prior posts. This is a reviewer who is following the instructions given to him by Groundspeak. Do NOT accuse him of having a personal agenda. Questioning his motives or patriotism is disrespectful.

 

And, to recap, the cache owner has already discussed their cache with Groundspeak, and chose to have the cache archived rather than edit the text as requested by Groundspeak. There is no further appeal in regards to this individual cache.

[+BCandMsKitty]

This thread has way too much drama for me but after 8 pages I have pull out the ace I've been holding - the same exact thing as this thread.

 

I have been asked to change the wording ONE time on a cache I submitted, you know what I CHANGED IT. I was a little ticked at first but I was able to see beyond the computer.

 

Can you see the light, can you see the light

 

Kinda my thoughts too. way too much drama. Change the wording and get on with life!