No Charges Likely in Geocaching Suspicious Package

[+whereissit]

In March, a suspicious package call in Bridgeport, OH created quite a raucous as emergency responders reacted by calling out the bomb squad. It turned out the 'suspicious package' was a geocache. Initially, police said the group playing the game would likely face inducing panic charges. It is now being reported that charges are unlikely in the case as it would be nearly impossible to prove the cachers intended to cause any sort of panic.

 

We should all remember the geocachers creed before placing your next hide. In this case the hider broke all three of the suggestions.

 

Don’t place a cache near schools or government buildings unless the administration and staff are fully aware of the placement.

 

Use caution where children play. Parents are understandably concerned when strangers are near their children.

 

Don’t place a cache near critical infrastructure that might be considered a terrorist target, or create a cache that could be mistaken for a terrorist device (e.g. a pipe bomb).

[+sbell111]

In March, a suspicious package call in Bridgeport, OH created quite a raucous as emergency responders reacted by calling out the bomb squad. It turned out the 'suspicious package' was a geocache. Initially, police said the group playing the game would likely face inducing panic charges. It is now being reported that charges are unlikely in the case as it would be nearly impossible to prove the cachers intended to cause any sort of panic.

whodathunkit

We should all remember the geocachers creed before placing your next hide. In this case the hider broke all three of the suggestions. ...

Really? Let's see if I remember my geocreed:

The Geocacher's Creed

 

When placing or seeking geocaches, I will:

1) Use my brain.

2) Try to make the game fun for others

3) Try not to be too full of myself

Perhaps he didn't fulfill #1 to the best of his ability. I don't know. I dont think he violated #2 or #3. Edited April 2, 2008 by sbell111

[+Renegade Knight]

In March, a suspicious package call in Bridgeport, OH created quite a raucous as emergency responders reacted by calling out the bomb squad. It turned out the 'suspicious package' was a geocache. Initially, police said the group playing the game would likely face inducing panic charges. It is now being reported that charges are unlikely in the case as it would be nearly impossible to prove the cachers intended to cause any sort of panic.

 

We should all remember the geocachers creed before placing your next hide. In this case the hider broke all three of the suggestions.

 

Don’t place a cache near schools or government buildings unless the administration and staff are fully aware of the placement.

 

Use caution where children play. Parents are understandably concerned when strangers are near their children.

 

Don’t place a cache near critical infrastructure that might be considered a terrorist target, or create a cache that could be mistaken for a terrorist device (e.g. a pipe bomb).

 

1) The cache was and is harmless. The responce was the panic. Not the cache. Officials are not likely to charge themselves though. (They had other choices such as investigate the cache for drugs for example).

2) Since geocachers are doing nothing more than enjoying a casual and fun family friendly activity it's really hard to prove anything more than that. Living and recreating in the world we live in is not a problem.

3) It's always been bad practice to place caches near schools and government buildings like police stations and courthouses. This is regardless of what the administration thinks.

4) Adults can 'play' anywhwere they are dang well allowed. It's a sad commentary when the world becomes scared of adults near a playground. It used to be ok to go there and read, watch the kids play, walk your dog, play checkers with your buddies. More adults around means less likely that the occasional problem person will cause a problem.

5) Ever see a list of potential targers? Everthing is on it. Somethings more than others.

[+mtn-man]

We should all remember the geocachers creed before placing your next hide. In this case the hider broke all three of the suggestions. ...

Really? Let's see if I remember my geocreed:

The Geocacher's Creed

 

When placing or seeking geocaches, I will:

1) Use my brain.

2) Try to make the game fun for others

3) Try not to be too full of myself

Perhaps he didn't fulfill #1 to the best of his ability. I don't know. I dont think he violated #2 or #3.

Yeah, I wish those that promote the "Geocacher's Creed" would actually follow it. That's another topic.

 

Since this is a duplicate topic, I will close this one and refer those that wish to start this discussion back up again back to the original topic.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...howtopic=188319

 

EDITED: Actually, I changed my mind. This topic seems to be more about the creed than that particular cache. I like your interpretation of it sbell111. My issue is not the creed itself, but the fact that it isn't followed by those who promote it on their cache pages at times.

 

Topic is not closed, so feel free to discuss.

Edited April 2, 2008 by mtn-man

[+CYBret]

I know there will be some who will say "it wouldn't have made a difference" but the video I saw of the incident illustrated one of my big pet peeves with decons--the labels were left on.

 

UGH...those are some freakin' scary words on that label and lid! Peeling them off and sanding them off and replacing them with geocaching labels goes a long way towards defusing a lot of situations.

 

And it's just the responsible thing to do.

[Keystone]

We should all remember the geocachers creed before placing your next hide. In this case the hider broke all three of the suggestions.

 

Don’t place a cache near schools or government buildings unless the administration and staff are fully aware of the placement.

 

Use caution where children play. Parents are understandably concerned when strangers are near their children.

 

Don’t place a cache near critical infrastructure that might be considered a terrorist target, or create a cache that could be mistaken for a terrorist device (e.g. a pipe bomb).

How did this cache near a bridge closed to vehicular traffic violate the listing guidelines? At the time I reviewed this cache, I saw the bridge on the map and put the cache on hold to quiz the hider about it. I published the cache once I learned the bridge was for pedestrians only. There are hundreds if not thousands of caches like this. I can also point to any number of cache hides in other states that are hidden on or under bridges on the Interstate Highway or US Federal Highway systems. Those hides present clearer cases for violations of the "Off Limits" guideline.

 

Apart from the bridge, can you point me to a nearby government building, school or playground that I missed during the review process? A photo would help. Also, playgrounds are not a guidelines issue unless they are school playgrounds.

[+Confucius' Cat]

I know there will be some who will say "it wouldn't have made a difference" but the video I saw of the incident illustrated one of my big pet peeves with decons--the labels were left on.

 

UGH...those are some freakin' scary words on that label and lid! Peeling them off and sanding them off and replacing them with geocaching labels goes a long way towards defusing a lot of situations.

 

And it's just the responsible thing to do.

You know, come to think of it, the first time I got a decon of my own, which had the original contents intact, I was kinda freaked out about the warnings. Was this some kind of hazmat? What was the best way to dispose of the unwanted contents? Could I safely put them in the garbage can? Would it be a federal offence if I got caught? Would it be safe to open the packets?

 

I encountered a glow-in-the-dark military compass with similar warnings, something like, "RADIOACTIVE" "if found return to nearest military facility." This was on a compass designed to be worn on one's wrist. How dangerous could the radioactivity BE anyway?

 

Military warnings DO seem to be a little overboard sometimes.

[+whereissit]

[

How did this cache near a bridge closed to vehicular traffic violate the listing guidelines? At the time I reviewed this cache, I saw the bridge on the map and put the cache on hold to quiz the hider about it. I published the cache once I learned the bridge was for pedestrians only. There are hundreds if not thousands of caches like this. I can also point to any number of cache hides in other states that are hidden on or under bridges on the Interstate Highway or US Federal Highway systems. Those hides present clearer cases for violations of the "Off Limits" guideline.

 

Apart from the bridge, can you point me to a nearby government building, school or playground that I missed during the review process? A photo would help. Also, playgrounds are not a guidelines issue unless they are school playgrounds.

 

Although I am not familar with this area, it is my understanding there is a water treatment plant that is in close proximity. This is what was reported on the day of the incident.

[+KoosKoos]

I can also point to any number of cache hides in other states that are hidden on or under bridges on the Interstate Highway or US Federal Highway systems. Those hides present clearer cases for violations of the "Off Limits" guideline.

 

I think I read that you can't use any previous hide as a precedent for/against any new listing.

[+mtn-man]

Although I am not familar with this area, it is my understanding there is a water treatment plant that is in close proximity. This is what was reported on the day of the incident.

Reading the police report,

“This put a lot of panic into people just because of the area they put it in,’’ Studenc said, referring to the container’s proximity to North Lincoln Avenue, Ohio 7 and a water treatment plant. ‘‘That’s not very smart.’’

Honestly, looking at the Google Map, I don't see any water treatment plant. It is also on the other side of the river from North Lincoln Avenue, Ohio 7 to boot. It appears to be over 2 football fields away from that road. Over-reaction? Perhaps that's part of why there are no charges.

 

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=40.07932+-80...&iwloc=addr

 

Granted, using a different container probably would have been a good idea. Still, the cache has been replaced in the same location. Sounds like the cache is OK in this location, despite the proximity to a reported water treatment plant.

[Keystone]

Wrong cache, mtn-man. Remember, the early posts screwed up and identified the cache on the West Virginia side. Study the Ohio side of the bridge. I still don't see a problem.

 

The cache doesn't show up there on the maps any longer because its owner relocated it to a new spot many miles away. I was happy to update the coordinates.

[+PhxChem]

UGH...those are some freakin' scary words on that label and lid!

 

Not to be a broken record, broken record, broken record...

 

But those "scary words" just don't seem close-down-a-highway scary. Look on the back of a bottle of Drano....it has similar warnings! And, would a bomb actially say "Warning: this is a bomb...it may go boom!?!"

 

Ok, rant over.

[+FireRef]

Well, McDonalds has to say "Caution - Hot coffee is hot"... so why not put warning labels on bombs? Then the people who make them and accidentally get hurt can sue the companies that made the stuff they put in them!

 

Welcome to our wonderful sue-happy and overly suspicious world!

[+Mule Ears]

Take-away point is: Remove all military markings and warning labels from cache containers. In the event of a cache's discovery by non-cachers, the container should look as innocent as possible to avoid provoking this kind of kerfluffle.

[+egami]

Take-away point is: Remove all military markings and warning labels from cache containers. In the event of a cache's discovery by non-cachers, the container should look as innocent as possible to avoid provoking this kind of kerfluffle.

 

I don't know...from the way the report read the person who called it in didn't even get a look at the container. They seemed to react purely based on what they saw the cacher doing.

 

Not that that's a bad suggestion...just that it may not of changed this particular outcome.

Edited April 3, 2008 by egami

[+Mule Ears]

Take-away point is: Remove all military markings and warning labels from cache containers. In the event of a cache's discovery by non-cachers, the container should look as innocent as possible to avoid provoking this kind of kerfluffle.

 

I don't know...from the way the report read the person who called it in didn't even get a look at the container. They seemed to react purely based on what they saw the cacher doing.

 

Not that that's a bad suggestion...just that it may not of changed this particular outcome.

 

The police spokesman quoted back the warnings embossed in the top of the decon container by way of explaining their (police) response, presumably to justify the call to the bomb squad (which was later canceled).

 

Had the finder not been spotted, the markings wouldn't have been an issue. But the cops roll up on a 'suspicious activity' call and discover a strange, military-looking box covered with warnings... It probably wouldn't gotten any further had the cache been a plain-vanilla container.

[+sbell111]

Take-away point is: Remove all military markings and warning labels from cache containers. In the event of a cache's discovery by non-cachers, the container should look as innocent as possible to avoid provoking this kind of kerfluffle.

I don't know...from the way the report read the person who called it in didn't even get a look at the container. They seemed to react purely based on what they saw the cacher doing.

 

Not that that's a bad suggestion...just that it may not of changed this particular outcome.

The police spokesman quoted back the warnings embossed in the top of the decon container by way of explaining their (police) response, presumably to justify the call to the bomb squad (which was later canceled).

 

Had the finder not been spotted, the markings wouldn't have been an issue. But the cops roll up on a 'suspicious activity' call and discover a strange, military-looking box covered with warnings... It probably wouldn't gotten any further had the cache been a plain-vanilla container.

History suggests that, once the police have arrived on the scene, it would be as likely to get blowed up if it were gladware or a rocket tube. Edited April 3, 2008 by sbell111

[+egami]

Take-away point is: Remove all military markings and warning labels from cache containers. In the event of a cache's discovery by non-cachers, the container should look as innocent as possible to avoid provoking this kind of kerfluffle.

 

I don't know...from the way the report read the person who called it in didn't even get a look at the container. They seemed to react purely based on what they saw the cacher doing.

 

Not that that's a bad suggestion...just that it may not of changed this particular outcome.

 

The police spokesman quoted back the warnings embossed in the top of the decon container by way of explaining their (police) response, presumably to justify the call to the bomb squad (which was later canceled).

 

Had the finder not been spotted, the markings wouldn't have been an issue. But the cops roll up on a 'suspicious activity' call and discover a strange, military-looking box covered with warnings... It probably wouldn't gotten any further had the cache been a plain-vanilla container.

 

That's still purely speculative.

 

Had any one of those officers, as I myself can do without a military background, known that to be a military style container then they'd of likely responded the same way.

 

Frankly, having been in their shoes in a previous job, I would have been MORE suspicious of such container with removed markings.

 

I can play the speculation game both ways. The fact is, it's NOT a guarantee and I did say it's still not a bad idea. Additionally, a better idea yet, is to include geocaching or other such markings to replace the warnings. Even that won't be fool proof in preventing something like this, however.

Edited April 3, 2008 by egami

[+Prime Suspect]

From the news story:

Studenc said this was a bomb scare with an unlikely outcome, and most likely no charges to be filed.

 

This situation revealed that the county, and the entire Ohio Valley, is not equipped with any bomb backup. The closet bomb squad support is in Columbus.

I just want to know what the bomb squad is so ashamed of, that they have to be "in the closet". Come on, guys! It's 2008! Come out of the closet. Shout to the world, "I'm a bomb defusement technician, and I'm proud!".

 

Maybe even have a parade. Eh, ... maybe not.

[+Geoaddict]

Looking at the video it appears that the hider did not put a sticker on the outside of the container or anything on the exterior that indicated that it was a geocache. Without that information, what you have left is a military container with all sorts of nasty warnings.

[Kyul_and_Carbon]

[

How did this cache near a bridge closed to vehicular traffic violate the listing guidelines? At the time I reviewed this cache, I saw the bridge on the map and put the cache on hold to quiz the hider about it. I published the cache once I learned the bridge was for pedestrians only. There are hundreds if not thousands of caches like this. I can also point to any number of cache hides in other states that are hidden on or under bridges on the Interstate Highway or US Federal Highway systems. Those hides present clearer cases for violations of the "Off Limits" guideline.

 

Apart from the bridge, can you point me to a nearby government building, school or playground that I missed during the review process? A photo would help. Also, playgrounds are not a guidelines issue unless they are school playgrounds.

 

Although I am not familar with this area, it is my understanding there is a water treatment plant that is in close proximity. This is what was reported on the day of the incident.

According to the original news story, it was near a highway, a water treatment plant, and a school (or daycare).

 

Now... on a side note - this is gonna sound way off base but what does replacing labels with a geocache label do? You do realize people could use a geocache label on something that IS dangerous and is not a cache, right? If all law enforcement were told "oh, this is the geocache label, no worries if you find something with that on it"..... well, people will take advantage and use the labels to guise something dangerous. Dangerous things can be put in any container, same as a cache.... so while removing the original labels may "help" it doesn't defuse the original issue: strange container hidden.

 

I'm glad that the hider isn't going to be charged for "enducing panic".... that was taking it a bit too far. Its a shame that all this suspicion infects our society so thickly.

[+Jackalgirl]

From the news story:

Studenc said this was a bomb scare with an unlikely outcome, and most likely no charges to be filed.

 

This situation revealed that the county, and the entire Ohio Valley, is not equipped with any bomb backup. The closet bomb squad support is in Columbus.

I just want to know what the bomb squad is so ashamed of, that they have to be "in the closet". Come on, guys! It's 2008! Come out of the closet. Shout to the world, "I'm a bomb defusement technician, and I'm proud!".

 

Maybe even have a parade. Eh, ... maybe not.

 

What? Columbus is a closet? I'm confused. Waaaah!

[+Chuy!]

Take-away point is: Remove all military markings and warning labels from cache containers. In the event of a cache's discovery by non-cachers, the container should look as innocent as possible to avoid provoking this kind of kerfluffle.

 

I don't know...from the way the report read the person who called it in didn't even get a look at the container. They seemed to react purely based on what they saw the cacher doing.

 

Not that that's a bad suggestion...just that it may not of changed this particular outcome.

 

Yep, I agree, the cacher's movements/behavior is what caught folk's attention. How many of our decon containers have gotten muggled with no bomb squad intervention? It's the cacher's behavior that mostly contributes to this type of reaction/response.

 

Our bomb squad blew up a cache in my neighborhood this past weekend, also based on cacher behavior. I tell new cachers not to act as if they're hiding something. Once you make a decision to find something, do it deliberately; look over your shoulder only after you find the cache; that way, you can go explain your actions to anyone watching you. Lucky for us, our bomb intervention did not make the news. But a sheriff deputy did leave his business card on the pole with a request he/she be called.

[+PhxChem]

The police spokesman quoted back the warnings embossed in the top of the decon container by way of explaining their (police) response, presumably to justify the call to the bomb squad (which was later canceled).

 

I think it was just to save face. Look...with all these warnings!!

 

Plenty of non-military item have been blown up by bomb squads. I'm not sure how "corrosive materials," or "toxic" would make anyone think it was a bamb....

[+Renegade Knight]

... You do realize people could use a geocache label on something that IS dangerous and is not a cache, right? If all law enforcement were told "oh, this is the geocache label, no worries if you find something with that on it"..... well, people will take advantage and use the labels to guise something dangerous....

 

I sponsored a class by the Idaho State Police that said that criminals do just that if it will work. The police know this and factor it into any responce.

[+CYBret]

The police spokesman quoted back the warnings embossed in the top of the decon container by way of explaining their (police) response, presumably to justify the call to the bomb squad (which was later canceled).

 

I think it was just to save face. Look...with all these warnings!!

 

Plenty of non-military item have been blown up by bomb squads. I'm not sure how "corrosive materials," or "toxic" would make anyone think it was a bamb....

 

But is there anything there to make them think it wasn't?

 

Was there anything there to identify exactly what the container was being used for?

 

I used to sell a product that had the words "corrosive" and "toxic" all over the label. I had to give people special instructions about how to use it and what could happen if they did something wrong. Today that product can't even be purchased without a license because it was being misused.

 

As I said earlier, properly labeling caches may not keep them from being blown up but it's just plain responsible. I'm not sure what kind of laziness possess people to not take the time to remove the old labels, sand the lid or put a geocaching sticker on a container, but it's not doing any of us any favors.

[+sbell111]

How many people actually sand the lid of a decon container? I've found many caches that use this kind of container and I've never seen one with a sanded lid.

[Keystone]

How many people actually sand the lid of a decon container? I've found many caches that use this kind of container and I've never seen one with a sanded lid.

I made this exact same point in a regional forum, and someone promptly responded that they had bought 100 decon's, sanded off the markings, and then re-sold them to geocachers. I said that meant there are a whole lot of decon caches out there that I still need to find.

[+larryc43230]

What? Columbus is a closet? I'm confused. Waaaah!

We've been accused of worse!

 

--Larry (just east of Columbus)

[CoyoteRed]

We should all remember the geocachers creed before placing your next hide. In this case the hider broke all three of the suggestions.

 

Don’t place a cache near schools or government buildings unless the administration and staff are fully aware of the placement.

 

Use caution where children play. Parents are understandably concerned when strangers are near their children.

 

Don’t place a cache near critical infrastructure that might be considered a terrorist target, or create a cache that could be mistaken for a terrorist device (e.g. a pipe bomb).

Quite honestly I'm not seeing anything against the creed. I've looked at the location on various maps, videos from news reports, etc. I'm certainly not seeing anything against the specifics you mention.

 

It's certainly within the parameters of various safety agencies to be a certain amount of paranoid, but I'm simply failing to see your point on this cache being one that would induce panic. It seems here in the U.S. panic of situations and actually dangerous situations seldom coincide. I've read accounts of terrorist attacks that show all kinds of "normal" activity: a package in the basket of a bicycle exploding killing someone in an armored vehicle, briefcase "forgotten" in a pub exploding killing everyone inside, backpacks "forgotten" on a bus killing or injuring everyone on board. That list goes on and on. The Olympic Park bombing was a "forgotten" backpack. Abortion clinic bombing disguised as delivery packages.

 

How many bombings have we heard of that was the result of a bomb in the same or similar situations where we find a geocache? I'm not thinking of one myself.

 

Yes, IMHO, the creed should be taken into account when geocaching, either or both versions. Just don't start "creed thumping" if something out of the ordinary happens. No one can control, or even sometimes predict, how strangers think or will act. You just do your best and go from there.

[+Zolgar]

! And, would a bomb actially say "Warning: this is a bomb...it may go boom!?!"

 

<derail>

If I ever build a bomb, I am SO writing that on the side.

</derail>

[+egami]

Take-away point is: Remove all military markings and warning labels from cache containers. In the event of a cache's discovery by non-cachers, the container should look as innocent as possible to avoid provoking this kind of kerfluffle.

 

I don't know...from the way the report read the person who called it in didn't even get a look at the container. They seemed to react purely based on what they saw the cacher doing.

 

Not that that's a bad suggestion...just that it may not of changed this particular outcome.

 

Yep, I agree, the cacher's movements/behavior is what caught folk's attention. How many of our decon containers have gotten muggled with no bomb squad intervention? It's the cacher's behavior that mostly contributes to this type of reaction/response.

 

Our bomb squad blew up a cache in my neighborhood this past weekend, also based on cacher behavior. I tell new cachers not to act as if they're hiding something. Once you make a decision to find something, do it deliberately; look over your shoulder only after you find the cache; that way, you can go explain your actions to anyone watching you. Lucky for us, our bomb intervention did not make the news. But a sheriff deputy did leave his business card on the pole with a request he/she be called.

 

Wow, that cache was short lived.

[+Renegade Knight]

How many people actually sand the lid of a decon container? I've found many caches that use this kind of container and I've never seen one with a sanded lid.

I made this exact same point in a regional forum, and someone promptly responded that they had bought 100 decon's, sanded off the markings, and then re-sold them to geocachers. I said that meant there are a whole lot of decon caches out there that I still need to find.

 

Sand the lid? Never thought about it. Now I have to go read the lid.

[+Mule Ears]

Given the persuasive arguments that removing the markings would not have helped the situation, and might have worsened it, I amend my suggestion:

 

Urban caches should consist of stainless-steel cylinders and/or roadway flares connected to a rat's nest of wires and batteries, with an LED counter that decrements once a second. If possible, a tiny speaker should be wired in to produce a plink-plonk sound each second. This ridiculous parody of a bomb will signal that the suspicious object is nothing to worry about, and the explosives techs can get on with the serious business of detonating lost Hello Kitty lunchboxes.

 

Somehow this thread reminds me of the Battle of Wits scene in The Princess Bride. Vizzini would be proud (if he weren't dead of Iocaine poisoning).

[+sbell111]

Given the persuasive arguments that removing the markings would not have helped the situation, and might have worsened it, I amend my suggestion:

 

Urban caches should consist of stainless-steel cylinders and/or roadway flares connected to a rat's nest of wires and batteries, with an LED counter that decrements once a second. If possible, a tiny speaker should be wired in to produce a plink-plonk sound each second. This ridiculous parody of a bomb will signal that the suspicious object is nothing to worry about, and the explosives techs can get on with the serious business of detonating lost Hello Kitty lunchboxes.

 

Somehow this thread reminds me of the Battle of Wits scene in The Princess Bride. Vizzini would be proud (if he weren't dead of Iocaine poisoning).

I can't imagine watching any movie called 'The Princess Bride', so could you just tell us if we should be insulted? If we should be really, really insulted, don't bother to reply, just go ahead and report yourself.

[+egami]

I thought everybody had seen that movie. Then again, I thought everybody had seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

[+Mule Ears]

I can't imagine watching any movie called 'The Princess Bride', so could you just tell us if we should be insulted? If we should be really, really insulted, don't bother to reply, just go ahead and report yourself.

 

I'm merely the writer of the statement. Are you saying that I failed to take precautions to avoid the possibility that some reader of the statement might construe my pop-culture reference as an insult? I contend that it's the culture of suspicion and fear that causes some to look for insults--that's entirely beyond my control.

[+CYBret]

I contend that it's the culture of suspicion and fear that causes some to look for insults--that's entirely beyond my control.

 

Ironically it's the same culture of suspicion and fear blows up geocaches.

 

How anyone could have not seen that movie (and therefore not gotten the countless references to it in both this forum and geocaching in general) is.......

 

 

 

[+Renegade Knight]

...I can't imagine watching any movie called 'The Princess Bride',... .

Inconcievable! That's one great movie even if the opposition has watched it and enjoyed it too. It's one of the few areas of common ground that mankind has to build on. When I wrote that post I was using my left brain. I'm really right brained. Fortunatly I don't have to rely on my forum immunity built up over the years to survive some of the more challenging forum duels.

Edited April 4, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+Confucius' Cat]

I thought everybody had seen that movie. Then again, I thought everybody had seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

But everybody HAS seen the holy grail.

 

(everybody with any class and a sense of humour, that is)