Wheelchair access

[+Amberel]

I wonder if a wheelchair user could give me some advice, please. When reporting a cache I set the wheelchair attribute if appropriate. However, there are so many possible factors governing wheelchair access that often I am unsure if it is appropriate or not. Recent factors (not all on the same cache) have included:

 

The (tow)path leading to the cache had a restricted width access from the most convenient end (about 30 feet from the cache) and open access from the other end (a mile from the cache). I think the restriction was to prevent motorcycles from using the towpath. Unfortunately there was nowhere to site the cache the other side of the width restriction.

 

The path from the suggested parking to the cache could get very muddy in wet weather.

 

The last few feet to the cache is on grass, which could become soft in wet weather.

 

Access to the cache from one direction only requires crossing a footbridge with fairly steep approaches.

 

The cache is hidden near a river.

 

The cache is hidden at a height of 5 or 6 feet.

 

Discussion on these, and other factors, would help me be more accurate in setting the attribute.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+MartyBartfast]

Not a wheelchair user myself but if you go to Handicaching.com they have a grading system for caches which covers several of the points you've mentioned.

[+FollowMeChaps]

Just another opinion link

[+scottpa100]

My reply here will be regarded un-PC but it is an opinion. I want to know where we stop on attributes and things? I'm lucky at this moment in time I have full mobility. I can manage stiles on rural footpaths no problem. My Dad, however, really struggles with them. He can't lift his knee over them problem. But he manages and gets over them. There is not an attribute for stiles or indeed number of stiles.

 

Which is my point. My Dad accepts his mobility problem and works around it. I know people will say well there isn't an attribute for stiles but you could put it in the cache description. But equally valid are cache descriptions where someone just puts something along the lines of " A nice walk along a footpath in the countryside"

 

Surely it is up to each person, physically able or not, to take responsibility for their own actions, their own routes, their method of approach and their caching using their judgement?

 

<Edit for bad grammar!>

Edited March 29, 2008 by scottpa100

[+FollowMeChaps]

 

....................Surely it is up to each person, physically able or not, to take responsibility for their own actions, their own routes, their method of approach and their caching using their judgement?

 

<Edit for bad grammar!>

 

But how can you use your own judgement without the information on the cache page?

[+Von-Horst]

 

....................Surely it is up to each person, physically able or not, to take responsibility for their own actions, their own routes, their method of approach and their caching using their judgement?

 

<Edit for bad grammar!>

 

But how can you use your own judgement without the information on the cache page?

 

And how is a wheelchair user supposed to 'manage' to get over a stile?

[+scottpa100]

But how can you use your own judgement without the information on the cache page?

 

If its there - some people do just have a rather plain vanilla cache page which does not always have information. Its easy enough, with the streetmap.co.uk on the actual cache page, to check out maps, look at contours and things. This I feel puts more onus on the cache seeker rather the cache setter.

 

And how is a wheelchair user supposed to 'manage' to get over a stile?

 

They can't - which unfortunately means a wheelchair user will not be able to do a number of caches. However, I'm reluctant to place the wheelchair friendly attribute as I am not trained / experienced enough to make that call.

 

I appreciate that the original posting was for advice regarding attributes. Where would we stand if a wheelchair using cacher had an accident attempting your cache and they had only attempted that cache because of the wheelchair attribute. I know people will say as the wheelchair user attempted it, its their problem. The wheelchair user could say "But I only attempted it because you implied it would safe for me to do so." Which is why I say that cachers should use their own judgement when seeking a cache for their own enjoyment.

[+MartyBartfast]

If its there - some people do just have a rather plain vanilla cache page which does not always have information. Its easy enough, with the streetmap.co.uk on the actual cache page, to check out maps, look at contours and things. This I feel puts more onus on the cache seeker rather the cache setter.

No it's not possible to judge that from maps alone. What if there's a 2 foot step to 'climb' on the path, what if there's a restriction on the path to stop cyclists (as the OP noted), neither of these will be visible on maps.

 

They can't - which unfortunately means a wheelchair user will not be able to do a number of caches. However, I'm reluctant to place the wheelchair friendly attribute as I am not trained / experienced enough to make that call.

Then don't. There's no compulsion on anyone to add any attributes to a cache other than the terrain & difficulty rating. For those who do want to add attributes to help disabled cachers make a judgement can do so with the aid of some online resources such as the one I posted earlier.

 

Where would we stand if a wheelchair using cacher had an accident attempting your cache and they had only attempted that cache because of the wheelchair attribute. I know people will say as the wheelchair user attempted it, its their problem. The wheelchair user could say "But I only attempted it because you implied it would safe for me to do so." Which is why I say that cachers should use their own judgement when seeking a cache for their own enjoyment.

 

This argument doesn't apply to wheelchair cachers more than any other cacher who might do a regular cache and trip, get attacked by cows or run over by a bus while attempting your caches. It's a pointless argument.

 

I think most of us who place caches do so in order to attract cachers and give them some enjoyment. In order to help cachers decide whether they want to and are capable of attempting our caches then it helps if we provide the information up front so that they can make an informed decision for themselves as to whether it's going to be worth the effort.

[+The Blorenges]

We've recently published a Puzzle cache which we feel merits the Wheelchair Accessible attribute - a fact that was prompted by a man in a wheelchair coming past us as we were placing the cache .

 

For some caches which may be wheelchair accessible, the cache setter may not wish to give away too much information on the cache page itself: Putting "The cache is up a 10% sloping, woodchip-covered path, at ground level, hidden behind the ornamental sundial" or whatever would be very helpful information for a wheelchair user, but would obviously down-grade the difficulty rating for the cache find.

 

We've taken the simple option of using the Wheelchair Accessible attribute but, in the short description box, I've added the words "The cache location is accessible by wheelchair - please contact us if you require more details."

 

MrsB

[+Tiger-Eyes]

My reply here will be regarded un-PC but it is an opinion. I want to know where we stop on attributes and things? I'm lucky at this moment in time I have full mobility. I can manage stiles on rural footpaths no problem. My Dad, however, really struggles with them. He can't lift his knee over them problem. But he manages and gets over them. There is not an attribute for stiles or indeed number of stiles.

 

Which is my point. My Dad accepts his mobility problem and works around it. I know people will say well there isn't an attribute for stiles but you could put it in the cache description. But equally valid are cache descriptions where someone just puts something along the lines of " A nice walk along a footpath in the countryside"

 

Surely it is up to each person, physically able or not, to take responsibility for their own actions, their own routes, their method of approach and their caching using their judgement?

 

<Edit for bad grammar!>

It would be fantastic to know where there are stiles and even kissing gates, not only do both these things prevent wheelchair access they also block buggies, I can manage quite rough terrain with my 3 wheeler buggy but often come unstuck at kissing gates, some styles I can manage to lift it over but kissing gates (my pet hate) are usually too high.

[+scottpa100]

 

Where would we stand if a wheelchair using cacher had an accident attempting your cache and they had only attempted that cache because of the wheelchair attribute. I know people will say as the wheelchair user attempted it, its their problem. The wheelchair user could say "But I only attempted it because you implied it would safe for me to do so." Which is why I say that cachers should use their own judgement when seeking a cache for their own enjoyment.

 

This argument doesn't apply to wheelchair cachers more than any other cacher who might do a regular cache and trip, get attacked by cows or run over by a bus while attempting your caches. It's a pointless argument.

 

 

I disagree. What I'm saying is that there is a judgement call. Livestock attribute - Is there livestock in the field. Yes or no. Will it take less than an hour attribute. Yes or No. Do you need to swim to get the cache - Yes or No. But the wheelchair accessibility - depends on how dependent on the wheelchair the wheelchair user is. There is a guy in my work who uses his wheelchair on longer walks (more than 500m), but less than that he'll use his crutches. With his crutches, he can, and does, go up and downstairs himself. However, with a wheelchair, no.

 

I'll take your advice about not using the attribute (I don't think I do, but I'll check!) but I don't think the wheelchair attribute is a yes or no, one size fits all type of argument.

[+Von-Horst]

Perhaps the attribute should only be used where there is no doubt that the cache is wheelchair friendly?

[+MartyBartfast]

 

Livestock attribute - Is there livestock in the field. Yes or no. Will it take less than an hour attribute. Yes or No. Do you need to swim to get the cache - Yes or No. But the wheelchair accessibility - depends on how dependent on the wheelchair the wheelchair user is.

 

I really don't see the distinction between all these attributes. Can you get to the cache in a wheelchair? Yes or No. How is that more of a judgement call than if you need to swim to get to it? I suppose in theory there could be a hill involved and you need to judge whether a wheelchair user could make it up the hill, but then you're also making judgements about others abilities when you say they can do it in under an hour or that they can swim to it.

 

I've got a cache placed right on the pavement, can you get to it by wheelchair? absolutely yes, so the wheelchair attribute is appropriate. My other caches all have either steps, uneven tracks through trees or stiles to cross; can you get to them by wheelchair? absolutely not so they don't get the attribute.

 

As for fine tuning the attribute then that's where the Handicaching rating comes in useful, it also provides information to disabled cachers (not just wheelchair users) so that they can see how far the walk is, how steep the slopes are, how high off the ground the cache is, whether the ground is uneven or not,etc. without giving the game away to regular cachers who don't need/want to know.

[+Amberel]

Not a wheelchair user myself but if you go to Handicaching.com they have a grading system for caches which covers several of the points you've mentioned.

Thanks, that was very useful. I've now gone over all my caches and handicache rated them (took an hour and a half!) and tried to make relevant notes on the cache page.

 

Rgds, Andy

[+careygang]

Nice to see an owner taking the trouble to set a cache properly. I found one out near me that has the Wheelchair friendly icon. It's under a bridge over a storm culvert and even if the cacher has a 4x4 all terrain super cart, it's still about 2mtrs high under there. I PM'd the owner to tactfully advise that she might want to check the attribute icons and she never replied.

I have all my mobility, but it does peeve me when attributes are wrong. The cache has several DNF - probably people who discounted climbing down into the rocks because of the wheelchair icon.

Edited March 29, 2008 by careygang

[+Nochipra]

First of all, thank you for taking the time to ask about the accessibility of your cache. It is always nice to see someone who takes us wheelchair users into consideration. When I look for caches the first thing I do look for is the wheelchair attribute but I do not think it really needs to be something that the person placing the cache should fret over too much. The best thing you could do is put the attribute on the page and say to your best judgement if you think a wheelchair person could reach it or not. The actual description is really what tells that wheelchair individual whether they can get it or not. If you have doubts about certain inclines or reachability for wheelchair users, say that in the description by giving a general idea how big the incline might be, or how long an arm reach it might require, etc. I believe you can do this without giving too much away and taking away from the difficulty of the hide. There are all kinds of people in this world with all kinds of abilities and disabilities and all you can do is describe the cache to the best of your ability and it really is up to the person to decide if they want to try it or not based on the description.

[+Alice Band]

I have a friend who is in a wheelchair with a bolt inserted into her spine to hold her up. Because of this I've set some caches that are wheelchair friendly (also buggy friendly considering how many parents with toddlers cache). However they may not be as challenging for everyone else; some might see them as boring. But I don't mind because it means that everyone can have a go and not just the ones who can vault and leap gazelle-like over stiles!

I use the Handicaching system to let people know what kind of access the site has and judging by the PM's I received people are pleased I've done this.

 

The only thing I suggest is that more cachers are encouraged to place at least one or two caches taking people with mobility problems in mind. I'm sure people would love to see more caches appearing regardless of their difficulty!