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Garmin to release new CityNav-NT available May 2008


moonpup

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Hi all,

 

As an FYI, I just got off the phone with Garmin and found out they have asked retailers to pull the current version of CityNav-NT 2008 because of safety issues with sending people down the wrong side of streets, turning down one-ways etc. I was told they are releasing a new version come May 2008 with a lot of corrections.

 

So if you're looking to buy it, you may not find at retailers and will be stuck until the new version comes out. I have no idea what happens if you just bought it, but if you have a pre-loaded auto unit, they will allow you the new updates when they come out.

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I was surprised that the representative stated that they were pulling the current version due to safety issues. It's a good thing that they acknowledge the problem and are fixing it, but didn't think they would actually tell a customer the software has potential to be dangerous :laughing:

 

Has anyone actually run into a dangerous situation when using this software?

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I was surprised that the representative stated that they were pulling the current version due to safety issues. It's a good thing that they acknowledge the problem and are fixing it, but didn't think they would actually tell a customer the software has potential to be dangerous :laughing:

 

Has anyone actually run into a dangerous situation when using this software?

 

So if you already have CN NT V2008, will they upgrade you? or will you have to buy the upgrade to 2009 when it comes out?

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Has anyone actually run into a dangerous situation when using this software?

 

Not dangerous, no. It has given me some really silly directions though. Last week I was traveling down an Interstate and the GPSr insisted that I needed to take the next exit. It had me drive down that road until the next overpass, exit there go across the overpass, back onto the road I had just exited (heading in the opposite direction now) and back to the Interstate I had just left to continue on.

 

I have had it select a route for me based on shortest distance, then recalculated a route between the same two waypoints based on shortest time and had it come with a slightly different route that showed as faster AND shorter.

 

Always fun.

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I was surprised that the representative stated that they were pulling the current version due to safety issues. It's a good thing that they acknowledge the problem and are fixing it, but didn't think they would actually tell a customer the software has potential to be dangerous :laughing:

 

Has anyone actually run into a dangerous situation when using this software?

This strikes me as really strange. I've used City Navigator 2008 NT to navigate more than 10,000 miles of roads since I bought it, and it's never once pointed me in any sort of dangerous direction. As others have commented, it will occasionally suggest something silly, or the maps won't be totally up to date, but dangerous? No way!

 

--Larry

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Mine has done some really nutty things while stopping for lunch or a cache close to an exit while on a route from Florida to Michigan...It wanted me to get off the expressway after one cache/fuel stop then on the next exit on 75 go south on 75 and then back on at the next ramp and head north on 75. It did a few other real strange things also while on a routes if I deviated making a rest stop doing a similar thing. Most of the time it would straighten out if I just ignored it but a few times it needed a shutdown and restart the route to behave on the Colorado 300.

Edited by WoodenShoe
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Okay before the firestorm starts about this. I just called Garmin to confirm the fact CN NT2008 was being pulled because of safety concerns. Garmin denied that there has been any safety concern ever discussed with this mapping product. I just purchased two copies of this product a few weeks ago so I was greatly concerned with this thread. Once again there appears to be either a difference in tech reps for Garmin? or is this something else? No word on the next Colorado firmware update. Waiting for the next update :laughing:

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I was surprised that the representative stated that they were pulling the current version due to safety issues. It's a good thing that they acknowledge the problem and are fixing it, but didn't think they would actually tell a customer the software has potential to be dangerous :laughing:

 

Has anyone actually run into a dangerous situation when using this software?

This strikes me as really strange. I've used City Navigator 2008 NT to navigate more than 10,000 miles of roads since I bought it, and it's never once pointed me in any sort of dangerous direction. As others have commented, it will occasionally suggest something silly, or the maps won't be totally up to date, but dangerous? No way!

 

--Larry

 

I think it's more likely that they are pulling it because the unlock key has been broken and is widely

available on p2p networks. They already said they were working on a fix to the key-break problem

and it would certainly be easier to fix the problem in the maps than in every unit's firmware. And I

think it would be better for their bottom-line to make the claim that their software is dangerous and

get people to upgrade out of fear than to let it be known that you can use an older version for free.

The way to tell will be that if it really is dangerous it should be recalled and replaced with a

corrected version. If they don't recall it from customers, then it's probably being pulled because of

the key break more than anything else IMO.

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Well, I definitely was not trying to cause alarm but simply reporting what the customer service rep had told me. It would not be the first time that we have gotten conflicting stories from different representatives. I was not aware of the crack for the map key, so that may be the very reason for the rushed map update to market. Either way, a new version will be here soon...

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I think it's more likely that they are pulling it because the unlock key has been broken and is widely

available on p2p networks. They already said they were working on a fix to the key-break problem

and it would certainly be easier to fix the problem in the maps than in every unit's firmware. And I

think it would be better for their bottom-line to make the claim that their software is dangerous and

get people to upgrade out of fear than to let it be known that you can use an older version for free.

The way to tell will be that if it really is dangerous it should be recalled and replaced with a

corrected version. If they don't recall it from customers, then it's probably being pulled because of

the key break more than anything else IMO.

Sorry, but I just can't imagine that any company would profit in any way by pretending that its product is dangerous when it isn't. That sort of thing would lessen buyers' confidence in using their products, current or future versions, and probably cause their stock to tank fairly quickly. The last thing a company needs is for buyers to lose confidence in the product, whether or not the product is available on a p2p network. I'm going to withhold judgment on all of this until I hear something official from Garmin.

 

--Larry

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Pretty strange stuff. If the do decide to pull the current version I would certainly hope they would be willing to grant a free upgrade to those of us who have recently purchased CityNavigator NT 2008. I bought it for my unit and also for my daughter - she got a 76CSx with CN, mount, cables, etc. for Christmas. (She absolutely LOVES it.)

 

These darn maps aren't cheap and I'd hate to be out well over $200 for bum products that are being pulled.

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I just got a Nuvi 250W today. I had a chance to use it a bit. One thing I noticed is no home depot or menards in my area. However, I have both in my area. The menards has been there for 10+ years.

 

Other than that the thing is really cool and so far seems spot on.

 

One thing to note. You still need to know how to drive and read the road signs. Please don't rely on the GPS only.

Edited by Paul_Aris
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I think it's more likely that they are pulling it because the unlock key has been broken and is widely

available on p2p networks. They already said they were working on a fix to the key-break problem

and it would certainly be easier to fix the problem in the maps than in every unit's firmware. And I

think it would be better for their bottom-line to make the claim that their software is dangerous and

get people to upgrade out of fear than to let it be known that you can use an older version for free.

The way to tell will be that if it really is dangerous it should be recalled and replaced with a

corrected version. If they don't recall it from customers, then it's probably being pulled because of

the key break more than anything else IMO.

 

Yup. NT 2008 as available with a key generator that will unlock it for your unit.

 

Hopefully they are releasing a new version and will update current users fee gratis if its buggy -- since I just received my copy yesterday from Amazon.

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I think it's more likely that they are pulling it because the unlock key has been broken and is widely

available on p2p networks. They already said they were working on a fix to the key-break problem

and it would certainly be easier to fix the problem in the maps than in every unit's firmware. And I

think it would be better for their bottom-line to make the claim that their software is dangerous and

get people to upgrade out of fear than to let it be known that you can use an older version for free.

The way to tell will be that if it really is dangerous it should be recalled and replaced with a

corrected version. If they don't recall it from customers, then it's probably being pulled because of

the key break more than anything else IMO.

 

Unlikely, someone is ALWAYS going to crack it. It doesn't make much business sense to pull an entire on shelf line because of this, when they can try again to fix it in the next version. But you never know, p2p is a HUGE problem for software developers. So it IS a possibility, just not a big one.

Edited by VA3HST
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I don't buy the fact they want new software out because there are cracks out for the unlock codes.....software always gets cracked and it happens pretty fast. Garmin did this to themselves by their pathetic current unlock terms. You never saw any crack software for garmin until they started doing the single unlock codes for $130 software and then not allowing discounts for extra unlock codes or any discount for software upgrades etc. I've heard the navtec excuse before, I don't buy it.

 

On that note while I have had some pretty crazy routes selected for me by city nav 2008, I have never had it route me the wrong way up a one way, or onto oncoming traffic, etc.

 

However, I'd also bet if a potential safety issue is why garmin is pulling the software, I'd be willing to bet the rep that told you that is probably looking for a new job, and a memo issued not to mention that to customers anymore. That way garmin avoids a recall and thousands and thousands of free updates/etc. when panicking customers start calling worried about being routed in an unsafe manner. They just mask the issue with a new version and vendors are mysteriously out of product for awhile.

 

You would never tell a customer that you were pulling software due to safety issues when in reality it was due to an unlock code issue and cracked software.....that's like telling someone not to use their water due to drought not to use their water because it is contaminated with nuclear waste.

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Garmin probably has seen decreased sales of city navigator 2008 due to their change of the unlock policy(you used to get two unit unlocks). They probably attribute these decreased sales to P2P download and software cracks that are available, when in reality customers like me who won't buy any newer maps because they can't load it to more than one GPS receiver they own.

I've heard many claims that its the Navteq data is what makes Garmin street maps cost so much, one only has to look at Microsoft Streets & Trips(which also uses Navteq data) to see that the stand alone software for the whole US is under $40(with GPS puck under $100).

 

Because of the high price of these maps I only upgrade every couple years, If Garmin charged less for these maps I would upgrade more often so they would make as much if not more in sales. That's not even looking at how many more people will actually buy the maps. If this story is true I bet its more likely due to some software/hardware conflict with one of its receivers, most manufactures don't go after software Pirates because its a never ending & loosing battle.

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Not dangerous, no. It has given me some really silly directions though. Last week I was traveling down an Interstate and the GPSr insisted that I needed to take the next exit. It had me drive down that road until the next overpass, exit there go across the overpass, back onto the road I had just exited (heading in the opposite direction now) and back to the Interstate I had just left to continue on.

 

I have had it select a route for me based on shortest distance, then recalculated a route between the same two waypoints based on shortest time and had it come with a slightly different route that showed as faster AND shorter.

 

Always fun.

I've seen all you describe above - I went for an interesting drive in rural Mississippi a year ago; I knew how to get to where I was going efficiently, but it was a nice day and I had plenty of time, so I just followed the GPSr.

 

I believe these problems are caused by the routing algorithms in the GPSr - in my case a 60CSx - rather than the data in the map product; I have never been able to duplicate my results in MapSource, which presumably has more robust and lest buggy routing algorithms.

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I can confirm that CityNav2008NT (North America) does have serious flaws that could be dangerous. On two occasions, my C550 directed me to turn at places that would result in a fatal accident. Once it directed me to make a U-turn on the Coronado Island Bridge in San Diego, California (suicidal). Another time it miss-plotted a street address about 100 yards in the Pacific Ocean! I was directed to turn right across a berm, over a beach, and out to sea. Of course, only an idiot would follow such blatantly dangerous directions, but I could easilly see being tricked into turning the wrong way down a one-way street. That said, I find both my Garmins to be valuable tools despite their flaws. As a bleeding-edge technogeek, I expect some growing pains as the technology matures. Only 10-12 short (product development) years ago, my very expensive GPS receiver could only give me numerical coords and a direction of travel. Now, today's receivers can route you cross-coountry with only an occasional glitch. That's progess.

 

GW

Edited by Glenn W
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I did have a routing issue this weekend as well. Colorado ran great with a pre-made route from my casa to the Texas Challenge with one minor flaw. The final turn off the highway into the park was indicated a good 300-400 yards beyond where it actually was. We missed the proper turn and it re-routed us down a dead-end road in redneck land.

 

Other than that the routing works pretty well and it appears the auto zoom feature actually zooms a routable map in and out as your speed changes. When stopped, you zoom into the level you want, and when you start rolling the Colorado zooms out more and more as your speed increases. The warning for each turn occurs more in advance the faster you drive, and each warning turns the backlight on to the preset level so if you have the backlight time-out turned on you don't have to mess with it each time.

 

If you think Garmin is bad about delayed updates, check this spoof out. Be sure to watch the battery meter and the release date.

 

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While on the subject, can anyone, in simple terms, tell me the difference between City Navigator and Navigator NT.

 

And to maps, they are only as good as the information that goes in, and most of it is bad at the local level. It's alomost impossible to keep up with changes, but the street I live on (my block and the next), are in a different 100 block than the rest of town, and everything gets it wrong. Not a big deal, just an example.

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First of all... Garmin SHOULD have some sort of FREE upgrade to those who have the Not-So-Safe version of NT 2008. This is obvious! (I guess the requirement will be that you should have had your software registered @ Garmin.com)

 

Some of the problem(s) ? I had was... I made a waypoint to go from my home. I have reached that point. Now for the return trip, why would it calculate totally different route when I've selected exactly same options? (Garmin 60CSx). I really do not understand that. Shouldn't it just calculate the same route ?

 

Also, there are a lot of intersection streets where it's got different street name. (Drewry to west but Cummer to easy). How does it know which street name to display? Because it sure doesn't display both.

 

Finally, no wonder it had safety issue... it directed me to take the on coming highway ramp! (just kidding)

 

It should be some sort of FREE DOWNLOAD UPDATE? Not sure how it would work but IT! SHOULD! BE! FREE! FOR! CURRENT! OWNERS!

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I can confirm that CityNav2008NT (North America) does have serious flaws that could be dangerous. On two occasions, my C550 directed me to turn at places that would result in a fatal accident. Once it directed me to make a U-turn on the Coronado Island Bridge in San Diego, California (suicidal). Another time it miss-plotted a street address about 100 yards in the Pacific Ocean! I was directed to turn right across a berm, over a beach, and out to sea. Of course, only an idiot would follow such blatantly dangerous directions, but I could easilly see being tricked into turning the wrong way down a one-way street. That said, I find both my Garmins to be valuable tools despite their flaws. As a bleeding-edge technogeek, I expect some growing pains as the technology matures. Only 10-12 short (product development) years ago, my very expensive GPS receiver could only give me numerical coords and a direction of travel. Now, today's receivers can route you cross-coountry with only an occasional glitch. That's progess.

 

GW

 

I think this is an attempt by technologists to get rid of idiots ! Our society is becoming more and more complex, we are too many on this planet competing for scarces ressources, even clean water and fresh air !

Some culling is becoming necessary as war even famine or disease can't cope with the task ! :laughing:

 

Not the first time GPS have been accused to be indirectly the cause of accident, be it by misdriection or simply distraction !

 

Nothing new since the fisrt fingers crushed by a hammer refusing to hit a nail.

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Some of the problem(s) ? I had was... I made a waypoint to go from my home. I have reached that point. Now for the return trip, why would it calculate totally different route when I've selected exactly same options? (Garmin 60CSx). I really do not understand that. Shouldn't it just calculate the same route ?

Not necessarily. Based on my observations, the autorouting algorithm seems to be biased toward keeping you on a given road for as long as reasonably practical and minimizing the number of turns (or other driver actions required). This makes sense to me from the standpoint of reducing the workload on the driver and minimizing the likelihood of missed turns. So a difference in the starting location could result in a different route being the one that would minimize turns.

 

Sometimes there are several routes that are similar in terms of distance or time. While one of them may theoretically be “best” for distance or time, my experience has been that the routing algorithm also seems to consider other factors. This sometimes leads to differences in routing results which may seem surprising. While I can understand that it might seem puzzling, it doesn’t seem like it should be considered a problem.

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I would say Aug 2008

 

NA v2008 has mapdate May 2007 and released on DVD Aug 2007

NA v8 has mapdate May 2006 and released on DVD Aug 2006

NA v7 released on DVD Jun 2005

I believe you are correct for updates; but the full-install version was available earlier than the update last year. In 2007, the full-install NA v2008 started shipping by the 3rd week of June. (Based on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GarminGPSpublic/message/6304 If you aren't a member of that group, you won't be able to read the post, but the poster said he had talked to Garmin and his DVD was shipped on June 21.)

 

I don't mean to split hairs; but as someone who is waiting for the next release of CNNA-NT before buying a 76CSx, the distiction matters to me. Any possibility of an earlier-than-usual release has me doing the happy-hop. :unsure:

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I was surprised that the representative stated that they were pulling the current version due to safety issues. It's a good thing that they acknowledge the problem and are fixing it, but didn't think they would actually tell a customer the software has potential to be dangerous ;)

 

Has anyone actually run into a dangerous situation when using this software?

 

Moonpup,

 

I live in Chicopee, Massachusetts. We have a very, very busy street at a very dangerous intersection. About 15 years ago, the City changed the traffic flow from a two way pattern to a one way pattern. All traffic coming over the Davitt Memorial Bridge into the City must take a right hand turn. If you turn left, you would be entering onto a 3 lane, one way section of Front street, heading against the traffic.

 

My son, who is a relatively new driver, was relying on the GPS, which he shouldn't have been in our own City, but, nonetheless was. When he was told to turn left onto Front Street, he did exactly that. Once on Front Street, he realized that he was now facing three lanes of oncoming traffic. He froze and started flashing his headlights to give the oncoming traffic a heads up that he was going the wrong direction. It took an alert Police Officer to come to his aid and block the oncoming traffic until he was able to get the vehicle reoriented. He got off with a warning and not a ticket thank goodness.

 

The inaccuracy of the map and resultant intruction to "turn left onto Front Street" could have resulted in a head on collision.

 

I guess that would qualify as a dangerous situation.

 

Gil

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I got this message from tvnav.com this morning:

 

Hi, GARMIN just announced the City Navigator North America NT 2009 update. They expect to start shipping in May

 

This retail map update DVD offers full coverage of North America - United States, Canada and Puerto Rico. This new generation of Garmin Map Update allows customers a simple and convenient way to update the detailed maps and the nearly 6 million points of interest in their NT-compatible Garmin product. Customers will have all the latest details to navigate with confidence.

 

This update is compatible with the following units for both PC and Mac:

 

StreetPilot® i5, c330, c340, c530, c550, c580, 7200, 7500, 2720, 2730 and 2820

 

Nuvi series

 

zumo™ 450 and 550, GPSMAP® 478 and 496, Quest® 2

 

For PC users this will also update MapSource® City Navigator® North America NT when used with eTrex Legend® Cx, Venture® Cx, Vista® Cx, GPSMAP® 276, 376, 60Cx, 60CSx, 76Cx, 76CSx.

 

PC & Mac requirements:

 

Internet access is required. USB interface cable is required (not included with all Garmin GPS devices).

 

PC: Windows® 2000 or newer; 256 MB RAM, at least 800x600 display, 16-bit color monitor; 2 GB free disk space, USB port, DVD drive

 

Mac®: Any Intel-based Mac or PowerPC G3 or later Mac, 512 MB RAM, Mac OS X 10.4 or later, 1024x768 display, 2 GB free disk space, USB port, DVD drive

 

(bolding mine)...

 

Very interesting!

 

--Bill

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