Walkie Talkies

[+PavlovsDog]

I've been hunting around for a set of walkie-talkies to take with me on my hunts. Motorola makes most of small, hand held units I've seen at places like Target and Best Buy. I'm concerned about reception in heavy, dense woods. Has anyone had experience with these handhelds in this type of environment? Good reception? Poor reception?

[Mag Magician]

I've been hunting around for a set of walkie-talkies to take with me on my hunts. Motorola makes most of small, hand held units I've seen at places like Target and Best Buy. I'm concerned about reception in heavy, dense woods. Has anyone had experience with these handhelds in this type of environment? Good reception? Poor reception?

 

Our hunting trips involve the use of FRS/GMRS radios to contact other members of the party.

 

FRS is low wattage, restricted by the FCC. GMRS is up to 5 watts. The 18 mile statement on the radio is as if you were talking across a lake, or the desert, with no obstructions. We have good reception in these hills and trees at about 3-5 miles, if we're lucky.

 

You can count on probably 2 miles clear talking on GMRS (5 watt) channels.

Edited March 16, 2008 by Team Magic

[+TeamGumbo]

I've been hunting around for a set of walkie-talkies to take with me on my hunts. Motorola makes most of small, hand held units I've seen at places like Target and Best Buy. I'm concerned about reception in heavy, dense woods. Has anyone had experience with these handhelds in this type of environment? Good reception? Poor reception?

 

I have a pair of Uniden GMR-1058s. They are rated at 10 miles. but the farthest we've been able to talk over them has been about 3.5 miles...this was *almost* line-of-sight, with some nearby foliage to mix things up.

 

I have been looking to upgrade, and have pretty much settled on the Midland GXT710VP3 26-mile pair (I reckon they are good for 5-7 miles line-of-sight at best).

[+Confucius' Cat]

Two-way field technical rep here. (25 years a Motorolan)

 

Usefulness of the FRS/GMRS radios depends a lot on what your expectations are. Notwithstanding factors of quality and power, the way the radios are used and the environment they are used in will have about a 95% effect on their range and usefulness. What I am saying basically, is "don't bet you life on them."

 

The published mileage ratings are for "ideal" conditions. This would be unubstructed visual line of sight with clear atmospheric conditions. E.G. the two users are on mountain tops and can clearly see each other (perhaps with binoculars). Under these conditions, the range is nearly unlimited with quality receivers.

 

The quality of the RECEIVER is the most important factor in radio communications. You get what you pay for... the $15 unit is not going to have as good a receiver as the $200 unit. (I am accustomed to working with the $2000 commercial radios so i cannot vouch for the quality of the cheap consumer products. The design of the FRS radios, having a fixed antenna as mandated by FCC regs, does not allow for easy evaluation of TX or RX quality and specs as this typically requires a direct connection.)

 

There are many factors in receiver quality. The published "sensitivity" is only one of them and it can be rendered meaningless under typical conditions if other specs, such as adjacent channel selectivity and intermod rejection are not also excellent.

 

Another very important factor if one wants to use the radios in places such as amusement parks is the audio output power which is typically very poor on cheaper units. It does no good for the receiver to receive the transmitter clearly if the audio is not loud enough for the user to hear the call.

 

By far the most important limiting factor in radio range in the UHF band used by the common FRS/GMRS radios is the clear line of sight. Wattage makes little difference if the LOS is clear. However this is almost never the case.

 

Nothing STOPS radio waves, but virtually everything reduces their intensity. Buildings account for a very high attenuation, vegetation a little less, and atmospheric conditions a little less also. The combination of buildings, vegetation and atmospheric conditions tends to limit the range of portable radios to FAR less than the advertised ratings.

 

In the UHF spectrum, a little vegetation goes a long way to limit effective range. In my several years in Florida, I observed SEVERE attenuation in the UHF spectrum caused by the long-leaf pine trees. You get in amongst the long-leaf pine forest and your UHF reception is virtually GONE. (the needles are almost exactly resonant at UHF and thus act as billions of little antennae, absorbing the signal power)

 

Another major factor that limits range in normal WT usage is proximity of the receiving antenna to the user's body. This has three effects; it detunes the antenna, making it less effective in intercepting the radio waves, the antenna is lower in relation to the horizon, thus reducing its LOS distance, and the body attenuates the signal if the body is between the TX and RX units.

 

Thus range of a signal sent to a user who is wearing the radio on the belt will be considerably less than the range to a user who is holding the radio with the antenna straight up at head level. Since the point is often to "alert" the other party who is not carrying the radio at head level in his/her hand, the effective range consideration should take this into account. Commercially, we make "public safety mics" which get the antenna up to head level to eliminate this effect. But by law, FRS radios cannot have external antennas and thus the belt-level range cannot be improved.

 

Basically, you cannot truly put a mileage estimate on normal usage conditions because these conditions are constantly and unpredictably variable.

 

Bottom line: Don't ever expect to consistently get the radios "rated" mileage. It has been my experience of over 25 years with COMMERCIAL radios that direct portable-to-portable radio range, with one unit on the body and one unit at head level, if you get a mile or two RELIABLY (keyword), you are doing well.

 

I would not expect more than a mile or so RELIABLY from even the best FRS/GMRS radios. Sometimes you might get 20 miles, sometimes you might get 5, sometimes you won't get even 1.

 

Definitely go with the high power. It will help overcome all the aforementioned attenuation and random bad operating practices, but it is not a panacea.

 

I can take you to places where a commercial state-of-the-art repeater (def: a high power transmitter- >300W e.r.p., on a tall tower- 450ft, which rebroadcasts portable transmissions) will not be heard RELIABLY by a belt-level portable less than 5 miles from the tower. And I live and work in Indiana (flatlands m/l)

 

Footnote:

The GMRS radios REQUIRE A LICENSE FROM THE FCC (which cost $80 when I last got mine renewed). Mobile and base radios are also available for the GMRS band and can have power up to 50 watts, but you won't find them at WM or BestBuy and you can expect to spend $300 or more per unit. Repeaters are also available but because of their expense (both to purchase and for tower space lease) are not really common. Your local R.E.A.C.T. team might have one to share with members- reliable range with a repeater can often be 50 miles or more. Operating a repeater service in the GMRS band for profit is illegal, but there are a few "community repeaters" out there on the band which charge a fee to users on a "non-profit (riiight)" basis. Motorola used to make a GMRS cheapie that could be used on a repeater, but I am not sure it is still available. Cheap units that will operate with a repeater are rare, but not unheard of.

[Mag Magician]

Two-way field technical rep here. (25 years a Motorolan)

.....(snip)......

Footnote:

The GMRS radios REQUIRE A LICENSE FROM THE FCC (which cost $80 when I last got mine renewed). ......(snip)......

 

I found this interesting. Does this mean we can't take our GMRS radios with us on our trip to from Canada to Alabama in June?

[+Too Tall John]

Two-way field technical rep here. (25 years a Motorolan)

.....(snip)......

Footnote:

The GMRS radios REQUIRE A LICENSE FROM THE FCC (which cost $80 when I last got mine renewed). ......(snip)......

I found this interesting. Does this mean we can't take our GMRS radios with us on our trip to from Canada to Alabama in June?

It means if you want to use the GMRS frequencies on your radio while on your trip you need to shell out $80.

 

I forget, is there a test involved?

[+TakeTheLongWay]

The transmit distances for FRS/GRMS radios are way over stated. Even in the completely flat open desert of Iraq we was lucky to get even half the stated distance on these radios.

[+ironman114]

Thus range of a signal sent to a user who is wearing the radio on the belt will be considerably less than the range to a user who is holding the radio with the antenna straight up at head level.

 

This is why when hunting or hiking I have mine in a holster (Camelback brand) attached to my shoulder straps up high where the signal will be better and I can hear easier. I usually use the call button to alert the other user I am with that I am going to transmit se he will be listening or have his radio in hand.

 

I use Audiovox model 1202. I can get 5 miles line of sight but in heavy trees (NW Wa. coast and mtns.) get maybe 1/2 mile. Less if there is much of a hill between radios.

[+Travelinmatt76]

Two-way field technical rep here. (25 years a Motorolan)

.....(snip)......

Footnote:

The GMRS radios REQUIRE A LICENSE FROM THE FCC (which cost $80 when I last got mine renewed). ......(snip)......

 

I found this interesting. Does this mean we can't take our GMRS radios with us on our trip to from Canada to Alabama in June?

 

Is it just a GMRS radio or are they FRS/GMRS? Most of these radios that you buy from Walmart have both FRS and GMRS and have 22 channels. USUALLY channel 15-22 are for GMRS only and require a license. Channels 1-8 are shared with GMRS and have to be used on the low power setting unless you have a license. Sometimes the radio switches to low power automatically, your manual should explain all this

 

Two-way field technical rep here. (25 years a Motorolan)

.....(snip)......

Footnote:

The GMRS radios REQUIRE A LICENSE FROM THE FCC (which cost $80 when I last got mine renewed). ......(snip)......

I found this interesting. Does this mean we can't take our GMRS radios with us on our trip to from Canada to Alabama in June?

It means if you want to use the GMRS frequencies on your radio while on your trip you need to shell out $80.

 

I forget, is there a test involved?

 

no test involved, just fill out the paperwork

[+Confucius' Cat]

Two-way field technical rep here. (25 years a Motorolan)

.....(snip)......

Footnote:

The GMRS radios REQUIRE A LICENSE FROM THE FCC (which cost $80 when I last got mine renewed). ......(snip)......

 

I found this interesting. Does this mean we can't take our GMRS radios with us on our trip to from Canada to Alabama in June?

Actually, i was surprised to see that you were in Canada with GMRS radios. I don't know what the law is up there. I even spent several hours a few weeks ago searching the web to try to find a license database in Canada. (They don't seem to make it as easy to find things up there.)

 

YES. A license id required to operate GMRS (but not FRS) in the United States.

 

So, you can do either of three things when you come to the U.S.:

1. Do like most everyone else and ignore the law. Chances of getting caught are virtually nil.
   
2. Get a license. (I don't know if that is possible for a non-citizen) or check on possible reciprocity through the Canadian authority
   
3. Use the low power FRS channels that do not require a license.
   

[+GEOPENGUINS]

Yes, it is 80 US dollars for 5 years. If you are using a FRS/GMRS radio, you still have to get a FCC license to operate in the USA. If it is FRS only, you do not have to get a license.

[+Too Tall John]

Do like most everyone else and ignore the law. Chances of getting caught are virtually nil.

Won't they deport ya if you're from Canada, though?

[+Confucius' Cat]

Yes, it is 80 US dollars for 5 years. If you are using a FRS/GMRS radio, you still have to get a FCC license to operate in the USA. If it is FRS only, you do not have to get a license.

Only need the license if you actually USE the GMRS channels.

 

See last paragraph... a little bit ambiguous perhaps, but it refers to "operating under the GMRS rules" not whether the radio has GMRS channels available.

 

It has always been the general interpretation of FCC rules (with some explicitly written exceptions such as possession of a linear amplifier merely CAPABLE of operating on CB frequencies) that there is no violation of FCC rules by having the CAPABILITY to make an unlicensed transmission. It has always been necessary to actually make an illegal transmission before one would be prosecuted under the FCC rules.

[+Confucius' Cat]

Do like most everyone else and ignore the law. Chances of getting caught are virtually nil.

Won't they deport ya if you're from Canada, though?

Deport?

 

What's that?

[+JohnnyVegas]

Two-way field technical rep here. (25 years a Motorolan)

.....(snip)......

Footnote:

The GMRS radios REQUIRE A LICENSE FROM THE FCC (which cost $80 when I last got mine renewed). ......(snip)......

 

I found this interesting. Does this mean we can't take our GMRS radios with us on our trip to from Canada to Alabama in June?

.You might want to check what frequencies your GMRS radio operates on, each country allocates frequencies above 50 megahertz as they see fit. What is a GMRS frequencies in Canada may be a public service frequencies in the USA.

A friend of mine was on vacation in Australia a few years ago, the FRS radios there operated on what in the USA are police frequencies.

IMO GMRS/FRS radios are OK for short range communications.

Myself, I use Ham Radios, the technicians class license will get you into

repeaters systems that will give can cover hundreds of miles of range.

Each person will need a license. but the license is around $10.00 for 10 years. The radios will start at about $120.00 each.

[+JohnnyVegas]

This may be a usefull link re canadian GMRS radio

GMRS canada

[Mag Magician]

This thread took of in a direction slightly different than the OP intended. Thanks for all the input. I have done some more studying and discovered that in 2004 the Canadian government opened up the border to allow FRS/GMRS radios that were being purchased in the States. We do not need a license to operate at 2 watts or less. However, as stated above, the chance of being caught with more power is very unlikely.

[+GEOPENGUINS]

Only need the license if you actually USE the GMRS channels.

 

Actually, if the radio is capable of 1 to 5 watts of power, it is considered a GMRS under the FCC rules and regs. In the user manuals of all of those "bubble package" radios that claim long range transmission, it states that you need to apply for a license. Just a warning, there are some radio groups out there who hunt for unlicensed operators using doppler direction finders! As stated above, the chance of being caught is very slim. Just use proper radio etiquette as not draw any attention. I guess my wife is right, I'm a "Dudley Do Right", I always try and do the right thing.

[+StarBrand]

I got the Garmin Rino units to help communicate with my wife while out Geocaching. I found them to be nearly useless in the terrain types we have around here. Get a small hill and a few trees or a boulder or 2 in between us and we couldn't talk over about 1500 feet. Out in the open flats - we got as much as 3/4 of a mile before it wasn't useable. Just not reliable enough for what i was hoping to get.

[+Thrak]

Yes, it is 80 US dollars for 5 years. If you are using a FRS/GMRS radio, you still have to get a FCC license to operate in the USA. If it is FRS only, you do not have to get a license.

Only need the license if you actually USE the GMRS channels.

See last paragraph... a little bit ambiguous perhaps, but it refers to "operating under the GMRS rules" not whether the radio has GMRS channels available.

 

It has always been the general interpretation of FCC rules (with some explicitly written exceptions such as possession of a linear amplifier merely CAPABLE of operating on CB frequencies) that there is no violation of FCC rules by having the CAPABILITY to make an unlicensed transmission. It has always been necessary to actually make an illegal transmission before one would be prosecuted under the FCC rules.

 

 

Actually that is not quite accurate. The licence is required due to the POWER of the transmitter. If it is over a .5 watts then you are required to have a license. The FMRS/GMRS radios that are sold all have enough power to use the GMRS bands and, therefore, are supposed to be licensed. There is a HUGE outcry from the radio folks about all the useless chatter going on that interferes with their licensed usage. If you want to get yourself reported and smacked down by the authorities, just let your kids use the things and play with them and scream into them. Someone will nail you.

 

Radios that include the GMRS channels are powerful enough to actually use those channels. They are supposed to be licensed. Retailers are selling these "combo" radios and telling folks they don't need a license. They are wrong.

 

The last paragraph of the article linked above verifies what I'm saying and the article linked below is good for helping folks understand the issue. I realize a zillion folks out there are using these radios but some of them are getting nailed. If you find yourself facing a $3,200 fine you will not be happy.

 

HERE is something that will assist with questions.

Edited March 17, 2008 by Thrak

[+Confucius' Cat]

In all of the (admittedly few) packaged units i have seen, the power is automatically limited to the FCC maximum on the FRS freqs and the user cannot operate in any manner on the FRS freqs using the high power capability of the GMRS freqs.

 

I don't think the FCC will approve otherwise.

 

(although a commercial grade radio COULD be programmed to operate illegally at higher than allowed power- note too that if the commercial grade radio has a detachable antenna -as most do- it would be in violation of FRS rules even if programmed for <500mW)

 

The bold in the link you provided seems to back up my position, the keyword being "operate." Regardless, my interpretation is irrelevant, it's the FCC interpretation that matters and it is much better to pay your $80 and be safe rather than try to be a test case with a possible loss of a lot of money and your freedom for a few years.

[+Dryphter]

Huh. I guess I'm not to worried about the FCC bashing in my door because I was using the GMRS channels on the walkie talkies while out camping. I'll keep my $80. arrrrrr matey!

Edited March 17, 2008 by MorganCoke

[+Confucius' Cat]

Only need the license if you actually USE the GMRS channels.

 

Actually, if the radio is capable of 1 to 5 watts of power, it is considered a GMRS under the FCC rules and regs. In the user manuals of all of those "bubble package" radios that claim long range transmission, it states that you need to apply for a license. Just a warning, there are some radio groups out there who hunt for unlicensed operators using doppler direction finders! As stated above, the chance of being caught is very slim. Just use proper radio etiquette as not draw any attention. I guess my wife is right, I'm a "Dudley Do Right", I always try and do the right thing.

Like This one perhaps?

 

I used to be heavy into GMRS and had a repeater on a 450' tower that would talk over 1/3 of the state before the tower owner cut the tower down and I had to get off of it (I probably could have stayed, but my antenna was on top.)

 

Back in those days, I was very strong in going after people that operated in violation of FCC rules on the channel to which I was assigned. I especially went after those communications companies that would sell a fleet of taxicabs on the channel and tell their customer they didn't NEED a license (which of course they couldn't GET as a business entity)

 

The GMRS used to be one of the best kept secrets of personal communication and an individual could put together a DYNAMITE communication system if one had the money and / or connections to get free tower space and used commercial equipment. The channels were so little used that one had pertineer a private channel in most cases.

 

When the blister pack radio was introduced, all that went to hockey sticks. Now it would be a never ending job to track down all the children playing army and sending those annoying alert tones.

 

I let my original license lapse after I lost my repeater site and got a new license just over a year later because i believe in obeying the rules, but I find it pretty much useless anymore. I use my two blister pack portables at camp and to talk to tower workers who forget their units or if they break.

 

Generally when i am out in the woods now, I just carry my Astro 800 portable. I can call ISP or DNR directly. I figure that oughta get it. I also can go Astro on a company freq or test freq to talk back to my company vehicle if needed.

 

As far as general personal comm goes, two cellphones are actually a whole lot cheaper all-in-all with virtually limitless coverage (with exceptions) and infinitesimal up-front equipment expense. No matter how much money and contacts you got, you can't put together a wider range system and you can't get anything near worth having in private radio for a few hundred bucks- unless 1/4 mile reliability will get it for your purpose.

 

Ham is a viable option, but more expensive equipment to start (compared to either cell or GMRS) and everyone has to pass a test to get their license.

[+Zolgar]

 

As far as general personal comm goes, two cellphones are actually a whole lot cheaper all-in-all with virtually limitless coverage (with exceptions) and infinitesimal up-front equipment expense. No matter how much money and contacts you got, you can't put together a wider range system and you can't get anything near worth having in private radio for a few hundred bucks- unless 1/4 mile reliability will get it for your purpose.

 

 

Was wondering if someone was gonna get to cell phones. >.>

 

Two Trac Phones (one of the better pay-as-you-go) with around an hour a piece should run you around $100 if you don't want fancy phones. and the advantage of that, over a radio.. There's no searching for a channel that someone might be able to hear you in an emergency (not to bother mentioning what Confucius already did.)

[+GEOPENGUINS]

I think the GMRS radios will go by way of CB radios. I remember as a kid in the '70's, CB radio operators had to be licensed and were mainly operated by truckers. Over the years everyone had a CB radio and were operating them without a license. Since the airway was just flooded with unlicensed operators, the FCC changed the rules and allowed CB's to be operated without a license. I think that's going to happen with GMRS.

[+Snake & Rooster]

I think the GMRS radios will go by way of CB radios. I remember as a kid in the '70's, CB radio operators had to be licensed and were mainly operated by truckers. Over the years everyone had a CB radio and were operating them without a license. Since the airway was just flooded with unlicensed operators, the FCC changed the rules and allowed CB's to be operated without a license. I think that's going to happen with GMRS.

 

Maybe. There are what, maybe 100,000 licensed GMRS users and 15 or 20 million radios sold? That's a whole lot of illegal users. The law essentially becomes unenforceable. At worst, the FCC will use its limited resources to go after businesses. It seems unlikely that the casual users who use them while camping or boating are unlikely to be bothered.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Do like most everyone else and ignore the law. Chances of getting caught are virtually nil.

Won't they deport ya if you're from Canada, though?

Deport?

 

What's that?

 

That's where de ships come in.

 

It's been a long time since I've done anything with two-way radios, but when I was living in California I used to talk to people in Austrailia on a 12 watt SSB CB radio. It was hooked to a 4 element cubicle quad antenna I built.

[+Thrak]

I've considered buying a pair and even did some research into which ones were considered good units. I eventually decided maybe I wouldn't get them due to the dang license concerns. Sigh........ the darn gov't always has to get involved.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

You learn from history or you repeat it.

 

The FCC apparently learned nothing from the CB radio debacle and has now repeated it with the current unenforceable GMRS license.

 

Nevertheless, sound reasoning or not, it is the law and the law does have teeth. Ignore it at your peril.

 

Most every area of the country has an amateur radio club that will help folks get an Amateur Radio License.

 

You can study for the test free online and twelve-year-olds regularly pass the simple test for Technician Class Operator.

 

The license costs $15 and is good for 10 years.

 

Once you have your ham ticket you can play with real radios in a pleasant well-behaved community of operators... it is nothing like the trash on CB and far more effective than FRS/GMRS radio.

 

ARRL.org for more info.

 

73 de W4AGA

[+Confucius' Cat]

Agreed, they learned NOTHING from CB.

 

IMO, GMRS already HAS gone the way of CB. It is only a matter of time till they decide to drop the useless license requirement.

 

They had the power to stop it up until they allowed the blister pack radios. Before that, the cost involved in buying and setting up commercial radios kept the "riff-raff" out fairly effectively. Back in those days the biggest problem on the band was the illegal business users (like A VERY LARGE AND RICH AMUSEMENT PARK IN FLORIDA- which actually was "grandfathered" for their license but they made MAJOR modifications in their equipment inventory and transmitter locations in violation of rules, made NO ATTEMPT whatsoever to share the channels with other licensees, failed to ID properly, etc ... Such behaviour was typical of business users)

 

But now that any child can buy their "toy walkie talkies" for $20/pair at Wally World, there isn't any real hope of cleaning it up.

 

The FRS/GMRS is still a useful band for "quickie" short range comm though and the investment is quite small. For example. they are great to have around for when your relatives come over and there are too many to fit in one car to go to dinner in a place they've never been to. Basically even FRS works well for that.

 

I have also noticed a lot of highway flaggers are using them, so you can listen and anticipate when its gonna be your turn to go... that's gotta be worth something.

 

Ham radio is still civilsed for two reasons (and one of those is almost gone) :

1. The equipment is a little costly (>$100 / unit typically) -but since it is legal to "roll your own," one can get in cheaper in many cases.

2. Hams won't talk to you if you don't have a license and ID yourself properly.

 

With no code and simple tests it is indeed open to pretty much anyone now, but hams still have PRIDE in their operating courtesy and there are a lot of "Ham Police" who, unlike the "cache police" are not looked at askance for making an effort to keep the hobby "sane."

 

The only real problem with using ham equipment for the OP purpose is that every individual has to have their own license. For some, the test IS a big deal.

 

KB4BYQ

 

(edit- thought better about naming names)

Edited March 19, 2008 by Confucius' Cat

[Geocachebandit]

You learn from history or you repeat it.

 

The FCC apparently learned nothing from the CB radio debacle and has now repeated it with the current unenforceable GMRS license.

 

Nevertheless, sound reasoning or not, it is the law and the law does have teeth. Ignore it at your peril.

 

Most every area of the country has an amateur radio club that will help folks get an Amateur Radio License.

 

You can study for the test free online and twelve-year-olds regularly pass the simple test for Technician Class Operator.

 

The license costs $15 and is good for 10 years.

 

Once you have your ham ticket you can play with real radios in a pleasant well-behaved community of operators... it is nothing like the trash on CB and far more effective than FRS/GMRS radio.

 

ARRL.org for more info.

 

73 de W4AGA

I agree... Even on backpacking trips with my handheld two meter ham radio i can swap to higher gain antennas and get much better range... and on the occasion of band openings have talked hundreds of miles with a 5/8 wave telescopic bnc antenna... Endless amount of things and ideas to play with... could even carry a hand held beam antenna on your pack and really get out there... www.qrz.com www.arrl.com www.wtars.org www.mfjenterprises.com..... Tech license was very easy to get, with practice tests on the qrz webpage.... If you are interested in radio, you owe it to yourself to check it out... Nothing compairs, all the frs, gmrs are just expensive toys that i wish i had some money back on to get some new ham antennas with:) I mean check out some of the radios you could get and talk one after passing one 35 question test... http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=Displ...mp;isArchived=0 http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=Displ...mp;isArchived=0 http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=Displ...mp;isArchived=0 and some of the antennas you can put on them... http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-1712 http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-1763 www.hamradio.com good site for prices on ht's ( handie talkies) or mobiles or whatever... Great companion hobby to geocaching, makes geocaching outings alot more enjoyable to me... Knew absoloutly very little about radio when i passed the test ... Have learned very much since, very willingly and enjoyably... Nothing has helped my spelling though would love to help anyone interested getting their license, just drop me a line...

[+Confucius' Cat]

I agree... Even on backpacking trips with my handheld two meter ham radio i can swap to higher gain antennas and get much better range... and on the occasion of band openings have talked hundreds of miles with a 5/8 wave telescopic bnc antenna... Endless amount of things and ideas to play with... could even carry a hand held beam antenna on your pack and really get out there... www.qrz.com www.arrl.com www.wtars.org www.mfjenterprises.com..... Tech license was very easy to get, with practice tests on the qrz webpage.... If you are interested in radio, you owe it to yourself to check it out... Nothing compairs, all the frs, gmrs are just expensive toys that i wish i had some money back on to get some new ham antennas with:) I mean check out some of the radios you could get and talk one after passing one 35 question test... http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=Displ...mp;isArchived=0 http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=Displ...mp;isArchived=0 http://www.yaesu.com/indexVS.cfm?cmd=Displ...mp;isArchived=0 and some of the antennas you can put on them... http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-1712 http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-1763 www.hamradio.com good site for prices on ht's ( handie talkies) or mobiles or whatever... Great companion hobby to geocaching, makes geocaching outings alot more enjoyable to me... Knew absoloutly very little about radio when i passed the test ... Have learned very much since, very willingly and enjoyably... Nothing has helped my spelling though would love to help anyone interested getting their license, just drop me a line...

Great post!

One comment about ham radio that hasn't been mentioned and glaringly stands out from this post:

Ham radio is a GEEK thing.

A lot of hams do nothing more than chat on repeaters and that is perfectly fine, but the true essence of ham radio has always been trying new things and experimenting... getting every last DROP of range out of a radio, making an old, thrown out POS TALK again, building that wierd, awkward, cumbersome antenna that is a total PITA to carry or point, but it TALKS to the moon and back (often literally).

 

For this reason, many NON-GEEK types will not find ham radio to their liking and if all they want to do with their radios is talk to their fellow cacher that went to take a smoke and tell him "hey i found the cache," The FRS/GMRS is perhaps a better way to go.

[+minnesotabrad]

So in these days of threat level orange, what do you think the chances of the government giving a license from the FCC to people from another country?

[+TotemLake]

In all of the (admittedly few) packaged units i have seen, the power is automatically limited to the FCC maximum on the FRS freqs and the user cannot operate in any manner on the FRS freqs using the high power capability of the GMRS freqs.

 

I don't think the FCC will approve otherwise.

 

(although a commercial grade radio COULD be programmed to operate illegally at higher than allowed power- note too that if the commercial grade radio has a detachable antenna -as most do- it would be in violation of FRS rules even if programmed for <500mW)

 

The bold in the link you provided seems to back up my position, the keyword being "operate." Regardless, my interpretation is irrelevant, it's the FCC interpretation that matters and it is much better to pay your $80 and be safe rather than try to be a test case with a possible loss of a lot of money and your freedom for a few years.

Actually, I have a pair of the aforementioned repeater capable Motorolas. The power is switchable from 0.5 to 2 watts.

[+Confucius' Cat]

In all of the (admittedly few) packaged units i have seen, the power is automatically limited to the FCC maximum on the FRS freqs and the user cannot operate in any manner on the FRS freqs using the high power capability of the GMRS freqs.

 

I don't think the FCC will approve otherwise.

 

(although a commercial grade radio COULD be programmed to operate illegally at higher than allowed power- note too that if the commercial grade radio has a detachable antenna -as most do- it would be in violation of FRS rules even if programmed for <500mW)

 

The bold in the link you provided seems to back up my position, the keyword being "operate." Regardless, my interpretation is irrelevant, it's the FCC interpretation that matters and it is much better to pay your $80 and be safe rather than try to be a test case with a possible loss of a lot of money and your freedom for a few years.

Actually, I have a pair of the aforementioned repeater capable Motorolas. The power is switchable from 0.5 to 2 watts.

Can you make it transmit high power on channels 8-14? (The FRS ONLY channels)

 

That would be extremely ODD since the mod characteristics for those channels are also different. I can't imagine having a built-in ability to violate FCC regs and getting FCC approval. Have they been modified?

 

I must go get my units and see... I am pretty sure I remember seeing in the book that high power will not work on the FRS channels... but could possibly work on 1-7 (FRS/GMRS interstitials) If so, this would be in violation if one does not have a GMRS license.

 

Mine are NOT repeater capable, though- for THAT I have a JEDI (MTS-2000).

Edited March 19, 2008 by Confucius' Cat

[+JohnnyVegas]

So in these days of threat level orange, what do you think the chances of the government giving a license from the FCC to people from another country?

It is done all the time, there are non US citizens that live in the USA that have Ham radio licenses issued by the FCC.

Just like anyone from the USA living overseas can get a license for the county they live in as long as they past a test.

There are a few countries were Ham Radio is illegal for anyone, norht Korea does not allow ham radio and it has been brought to an end in Iraq in the past two years.

 

In some countries you can use the license from your home county while on vacation in a foreign country.

[+JohnnyVegas]

In all of the (admittedly few) packaged units i have seen, the power is automatically limited to the FCC maximum on the FRS freqs and the user cannot operate in any manner on the FRS freqs using the high power capability of the GMRS freqs.

 

I don't think the FCC will approve otherwise.

 

(although a commercial grade radio COULD be programmed to operate illegally at higher than allowed power- note too that if the commercial grade radio has a detachable antenna -as most do- it would be in violation of FRS rules even if programmed for <500mW)

 

The bold in the link you provided seems to back up my position, the keyword being "operate." Regardless, my interpretation is irrelevant, it's the FCC interpretation that matters and it is much better to pay your $80 and be safe rather than try to be a test case with a possible loss of a lot of money and your freedom for a few years.

Actually, I have a pair of the aforementioned repeater capable Motorolas. The power is switchable from 0.5 to 2 watts.

Can you make it transmit high power on channels 8-14? (The FRS ONLY channels)

 

That would be extremely ODD since the mod characteristics for those channels are also different. I can't imagine having a built-in ability to violate FCC regs and getting FCC approval. Have they been modified?

 

I must go get my units and see... I am pretty sure I remember seeing in the book that high power will not work on the FRS channels... but could possibly work on 1-7 (FRS/GMRS interstitials) If so, this would be in violation if one does not have a GMRS license.

 

Mine are NOT repeater capable, though- for THAT I have a JEDI (MTS-2000).

It is more of a problem with terrian than power. If there is a hill between you and the other sation the odds are, that even if you could run even 100 watts on an FRS or GMRS radio, you will not be heared.

With FRS and GMRS, terrain is the big problem.

Edited March 19, 2008 by JohnnyVegas

[+ironman114]

Only need the license if you actually USE the GMRS channels.

 

Actually, if the radio is capable of 1 to 5 watts of power, it is considered a GMRS under the FCC rules and regs. In the user manuals of all of those "bubble package" radios that claim long range transmission, it states that you need to apply for a license. Just a warning, there are some radio groups out there who hunt for unlicensed operators using doppler direction finders! As stated above, the chance of being caught is very slim. Just use proper radio etiquette as not draw any attention. I guess my wife is right, I'm a "Dudley Do Right", I always try and do the right thing.

Like This one perhaps?

 

As far as general personal comm goes, two cellphones are actually a whole lot cheaper all-in-all with virtually limitless coverage (with exceptions) and infinitesimal up-front equipment expense. No matter how much money and contacts you got, you can't put together a wider range system and you can't get anything near worth having in private radio for a few hundred bucks- unless 1/4 mile reliability will get it for your purpose.

 

Ham is a viable option, but more expensive equipment to start (compared to either cell or GMRS) and everyone has to pass a test to get their license.

 

Maybe where you live cell phones would work well but where I live and cache they are useless except on the higher peaks when you are at the top. I recently spent the night stuck in the woods and walked 5 miles at daylight before I was picked up by searchers my wife sent. I got just enough of a signal at that point to tell me i had messages but not enough to access them or call. I had to go another 7 miles before I could call out.

 

FRS/Gmrs was useless too in that terrain. I called for 2 hours as I walked aout and was less than 1 mile from some cachers coming in and they couldn't hear me. If I had a ham I could have reached them (they did have one with them and on) and maybe even my wife if I could hit a repeater.

[+TotemLake]

In all of the (admittedly few) packaged units i have seen, the power is automatically limited to the FCC maximum on the FRS freqs and the user cannot operate in any manner on the FRS freqs using the high power capability of the GMRS freqs.

 

I don't think the FCC will approve otherwise.

 

(although a commercial grade radio COULD be programmed to operate illegally at higher than allowed power- note too that if the commercial grade radio has a detachable antenna -as most do- it would be in violation of FRS rules even if programmed for <500mW)

 

The bold in the link you provided seems to back up my position, the keyword being "operate." Regardless, my interpretation is irrelevant, it's the FCC interpretation that matters and it is much better to pay your $80 and be safe rather than try to be a test case with a possible loss of a lot of money and your freedom for a few years.

Actually, I have a pair of the aforementioned repeater capable Motorolas. The power is switchable from 0.5 to 2 watts.

Can you make it transmit high power on channels 8-14? (The FRS ONLY channels)

 

That would be extremely ODD since the mod characteristics for those channels are also different. I can't imagine having a built-in ability to violate FCC regs and getting FCC approval. Have they been modified?

 

I must go get my units and see... I am pretty sure I remember seeing in the book that high power will not work on the FRS channels... but could possibly work on 1-7 (FRS/GMRS interstitials) If so, this would be in violation if one does not have a GMRS license.

 

Mine are NOT repeater capable, though- for THAT I have a JEDI (MTS-2000).

I had to go through the manual, the power is locked on channels 8-14. I haven't used the repeater mode on it though the eavesdrop reducer is pretty cool.

[+TotemLake]

Only need the license if you actually USE the GMRS channels.

 

Actually, if the radio is capable of 1 to 5 watts of power, it is considered a GMRS under the FCC rules and regs. In the user manuals of all of those "bubble package" radios that claim long range transmission, it states that you need to apply for a license. Just a warning, there are some radio groups out there who hunt for unlicensed operators using doppler direction finders! As stated above, the chance of being caught is very slim. Just use proper radio etiquette as not draw any attention. I guess my wife is right, I'm a "Dudley Do Right", I always try and do the right thing.

Like This one perhaps?

 

As far as general personal comm goes, two cellphones are actually a whole lot cheaper all-in-all with virtually limitless coverage (with exceptions) and infinitesimal up-front equipment expense. No matter how much money and contacts you got, you can't put together a wider range system and you can't get anything near worth having in private radio for a few hundred bucks- unless 1/4 mile reliability will get it for your purpose.

 

Ham is a viable option, but more expensive equipment to start (compared to either cell or GMRS) and everyone has to pass a test to get their license.

 

Maybe where you live cell phones would work well but where I live and cache they are useless except on the higher peaks when you are at the top. I recently spent the night stuck in the woods and walked 5 miles at daylight before I was picked up by searchers my wife sent. I got just enough of a signal at that point to tell me i had messages but not enough to access them or call. I had to go another 7 miles before I could call out.

 

FRS/Gmrs was useless too in that terrain. I called for 2 hours as I walked aout and was less than 1 mile from some cachers coming in and they couldn't hear me. If I had a ham I could have reached them (they did have one with them and on) and maybe even my wife if I could hit a repeater.

Yup. I had both radios on and never heard a peep on the FRS/GMRS. Too many bends in that road going around those mountains. I was able to hit a repeater 25 miles away at that time.

[+Confucius' Cat]

In all of the (admittedly few) packaged units i have seen, the power is automatically limited to the FCC maximum on the FRS freqs and the user cannot operate in any manner on the FRS freqs using the high power capability of the GMRS freqs.

 

I don't think the FCC will approve otherwise.

 

(although a commercial grade radio COULD be programmed to operate illegally at higher than allowed power- note too that if the commercial grade radio has a detachable antenna -as most do- it would be in violation of FRS rules even if programmed for <500mW)

 

The bold in the link you provided seems to back up my position, the keyword being "operate." Regardless, my interpretation is irrelevant, it's the FCC interpretation that matters and it is much better to pay your $80 and be safe rather than try to be a test case with a possible loss of a lot of money and your freedom for a few years.

Actually, I have a pair of the aforementioned repeater capable Motorolas. The power is switchable from 0.5 to 2 watts.

Can you make it transmit high power on channels 8-14? (The FRS ONLY channels)

 

That would be extremely ODD since the mod characteristics for those channels are also different. I can't imagine having a built-in ability to violate FCC regs and getting FCC approval. Have they been modified?

 

I must go get my units and see... I am pretty sure I remember seeing in the book that high power will not work on the FRS channels... but could possibly work on 1-7 (FRS/GMRS interstitials) If so, this would be in violation if one does not have a GMRS license.

 

Mine are NOT repeater capable, though- for THAT I have a JEDI (MTS-2000).

It is more of a problem with terrian than power. If there is a hill between you and the other sation the odds are, that even if you could run even 100 watts on an FRS or GMRS radio, you will not be heared.

With FRS and GMRS, terrain is the big problem.

I think you misunderstood the thread there. We were not discussing the usability of the radio but the legality of operating it without a GMRS license by using >500mW on an FRS only frequency. (which would be illegal even WITH a license)

 

Absolutely the A #1 most important consideration of all in UHF is terrain. You could use a hundred MEGAWATTS and you ain't transmitting through a substantial hill. You might get a series of reflections going over or around it that result in a usable signal though.

 

UHF is strictly line-of-sight. But it reflects VERY readily off of just about anything. Thus, with sufficient power, it can take multiple unpredictable hops and overcome quite substantial obstructions at times. It will on very regular occasions, even bounce around BETWEEN atmospheric layers and can by this means travel several hundred miles (even with just a few watts). This phenomenon is called "tropospheric ducting," but most common folk erroneously call it "skip." It is common enough that commercial users experience interference from stations 200-300 miles away twice a day almost every day for a few weeks in spring and fall on the 800 band (which is popularly touted as being "skip free")

 

The reflection propagation could be roughly compared to light from the sun illuminating a room with a window facing away from the sun. There is in no way line-of-sight to the sun, but because of the power density, there is enough light to see even in remote corners of the room. Similar is the effect of high power to overcome radio obstacles. But the difference is "night and day." (pardon the analogy) Going from 1 watt to 2 doesn't cut it. From 1 to 100 makes a big difference- but still not enough to get around substantial obstacles as you stated.

[+Confucius' Cat]

Maybe where you live cell phones would work well but where I live and cache they are useless except on the higher peaks when you are at the top. I recently spent the night stuck in the woods and walked 5 miles at daylight before I was picked up by searchers my wife sent. I got just enough of a signal at that point to tell me i had messages but not enough to access them or call. I had to go another 7 miles before I could call out.

 

FRS/Gmrs was useless too in that terrain. I called for 2 hours as I walked aout and was less than 1 mile from some cachers coming in and they couldn't hear me. If I had a ham I could have reached them (they did have one with them and on) and maybe even my wife if I could hit a repeater.

A lot of that big little "IF" word there. Even a ham radio is "iffy" in areas like you describe. Especially the "IF I could hit a repeater."

 

About the only thing that would be reliable in the conditions you describe would be satellite comm- provided you could find a clearing.

 

It is unquestionable in mountainous terrain that FRS/GMRS will be unreliable. But if you had a GMRS repeater capable radio you would at least have a chance "IF you could hit a repeater." There are a lot fewer of them, so the ham would definitely have a better chance. You might even hit a repeater a hundred miles away that ISN'T blocked by the mountain... and that's good enough.

[+ironman114]

Maybe where you live cell phones would work well but where I live and cache they are useless except on the higher peaks when you are at the top. I recently spent the night stuck in the woods and walked 5 miles at daylight before I was picked up by searchers my wife sent. I got just enough of a signal at that point to tell me i had messages but not enough to access them or call. I had to go another 7 miles before I could call out.

 

FRS/Gmrs was useless too in that terrain. I called for 2 hours as I walked aout and was less than 1 mile from some cachers coming in and they couldn't hear me. If I had a ham I could have reached them (they did have one with them and on) and maybe even my wife if I could hit a repeater.

A lot of that big little "IF" word there. Even a ham radio is "iffy" in areas like you describe. Especially the "IF I could hit a repeater."

 

About the only thing that would be reliable in the conditions you describe would be satellite comm- provided you could find a clearing.

 

It is unquestionable in mountainous terrain that FRS/GMRS will be unreliable. But if you had a GMRS repeater capable radio you would at least have a chance "IF you could hit a repeater." There are a lot fewer of them, so the ham would definitely have a better chance. You might even hit a repeater a hundred miles away that ISN'T blocked by the mountain... and that's good enough.

 

Like you said FRS is good only for short distances like talking to someone in a vehicle ahead of you or just up the trail. Less than a mile basically. Not good to summon help in mountainous terrain.

 

Totemlake was near me, about a mile when I got picked up and quit broadcasting. He did have his ham with him and could hit a repeater just 25 miles from us. Most valleys here point towards that repeater.

 

When we were in the North side of our state he could hit that same repeater even though it was 205 miles from us. another closer one was blocked and another has too short an antennae to be of much value.

 

There are a lot of areas in our state not populated enough to warrant the expense of cell towers still. Especially when hilly terrain means more of them have to be used.

[+TotemLake]

Maybe where you live cell phones would work well but where I live and cache they are useless except on the higher peaks when you are at the top. I recently spent the night stuck in the woods and walked 5 miles at daylight before I was picked up by searchers my wife sent. I got just enough of a signal at that point to tell me i had messages but not enough to access them or call. I had to go another 7 miles before I could call out.

 

FRS/Gmrs was useless too in that terrain. I called for 2 hours as I walked aout and was less than 1 mile from some cachers coming in and they couldn't hear me. If I had a ham I could have reached them (they did have one with them and on) and maybe even my wife if I could hit a repeater.

A lot of that big little "IF" word there. Even a ham radio is "iffy" in areas like you describe. Especially the "IF I could hit a repeater."

 

About the only thing that would be reliable in the conditions you describe would be satellite comm- provided you could find a clearing.

 

It is unquestionable in mountainous terrain that FRS/GMRS will be unreliable. But if you had a GMRS repeater capable radio you would at least have a chance "IF you could hit a repeater." There are a lot fewer of them, so the ham would definitely have a better chance. You might even hit a repeater a hundred miles away that ISN'T blocked by the mountain... and that's good enough.

There are more sure things in this state than cellular coverage. HAM is one of them. You get near the top of a mountain and you can hit just about anything. Satellite is just too expensive for the limited use. I can get 20 miles off of one of the highway corridors and lose cellular signal. I would have to be in the middle of the Olympic Peninsula to lose signal of any repeater and I couldn't say that would happen for sure. There are enough of them around I can probably very easily get a relay for help.

 

As for GMRS repeaters in this state, I know of only one and it is in a location that makes it useless for the general hiker in the Olympics and most of the Cascades.

 

In fact, when we had our major blackout in this area in 2006, it was the HAM repeaters that kept the official forces in touch with each other. Even Puget Sound Power has repeaters throughout the state for public use until emergency needs arise.

Edited March 20, 2008 by TotemLake

[+Thrak]

The units I had been considering were the Midland GXT800VP4. They seemed like pretty good units but I don't really want to deal with the license and the entire call sign deal since I would rarely use them anyway. I thought they would be good for when we were in two vehicles or camping, etc.

[+Dryphter]

With every big box store selling the 'blister pack' version of these radios, there has to be hundreds of thousands of them out there. I'm pretty sure the FCC isn't funded well enough to go after license violations for GMRS radios.

 

Thrak - you are probably ok getting them for the uses you listed. That's what I have them for. Camping, 2 vehicles on highway, maybe on a vacation (ie cruise ship) - basically anywhere that cell coverage is spotty.

[+TeamGumbo]

OK, after reading all the pro-ham replies, I ordered a ham radio study guide.

 

I took part of a sample test online and did very well (I already have an FCC GROL), so I'll take the test in a few weeks.

[+TotemLake]

The units I had been considering were the Midland GXT800VP4. They seemed like pretty good units but I don't really want to deal with the license and the entire call sign deal since I would rarely use them anyway. I thought they would be good for when we were in two vehicles or camping, etc.

I honestly thought I wouldn't get much use out of mine as well. But a few months worth of hikes made me decide it was time to add a mobile unit on the jeep so it can act as a local repeater. As noted above, even 5 watts won't push much through a forest unless you have good line of sight, but it sure gets better distance than a 2 watt radio. With the 50 watt mobile acting as a repeater my only obstacle will be a mountain or ridge between us for most situations.

 

The call sign is an itty bitty pain when you consider the multitude of channels available to you and the willingness of other users to help out in a pinch including letting you get a word in edgewise. You won't get that from abusive teens putzing around on an FRS/GMRS for giggles.

 

Between vehicles, you'll get better distance locally as well as remotely, again, largely due to the higher mobile power and repeater availability.

 

You can start off small with a handheld, and attach the antenna to an adapter hooked to the window for better distance than you can get with a FRS/GMRS. Granted, it isn't the best of the HAM world, but it is a far better capability than those toys. I did that for almost a year before I got my mobile.

 

I've already chatted by repeater through the Internet to folks in Colorado and Hawaii. It's an amazing capability that goes beyond just chatting it up in the woods.

Edited March 20, 2008 by TotemLake

[+Thrak]

The units I had been considering were the Midland GXT800VP4. They seemed like pretty good units but I don't really want to deal with the license and the entire call sign deal since I would rarely use them anyway. I thought they would be good for when we were in two vehicles or camping, etc.

I honestly thought I wouldn't get much use out of mine as well. But a few months worth of hikes made me decide it was time to add a mobile unit on the jeep so it can act as a local repeater. As noted above, even 5 watts won't push much through a forest unless you have good line of sight, but it sure gets better distance than a 2 watt radio. With the 50 watt mobile acting as a repeater my only obstacle will be a mountain or ridge between us for most situations.

 

The call sign is an itty bitty pain when you consider the multitude of channels available to you and the willingness of other users to help out in a pinch including letting you get a word in edgewise. You won't get that from abusive teens putzing around on an FRS/GMRS for giggles.

 

Between vehicles, you'll get better distance locally as well as remotely, again, largely due to the higher mobile power and repeater availability.

 

You can start off small with a handheld, and attach the antenna to an adapter hooked to the window for better distance than you can get with a FRS/GMRS. Granted, it isn't the best of the HAM world, but it is a far better capability than those toys. I did that for almost a year before I got my mobile.

 

I've already chatted by repeater through the Internet to folks in Colorado and Hawaii. It's an amazing capability that goes beyond just chatting it up in the woods.

 

The thing about HAM is that the folks like to talk. I freaking hate to talk. I rarely answer the telephone. My dad calls me constantly and I only answer once per weekend. I don't feel the need to gab with folks all the time. On the other hand, I'm fairly prolific when it comes to posting. I can do that on my own time and either do it or not depending on my mood. I don't have to be nagged and hassled by a freaking ringing phone and someone demanding my time and attention. I'm a total phone curmudgeon. If I was a character on "The Waltons" I'd be some crabby old man who, "won't have that infernal contraption in my house!" Phone lines are for Internet access and an occasional call to Papa Murphy's for pizza. Given that state of mind, I don't think I'm cut out for the HAM community.

[+TotemLake]

The units I had been considering were the Midland GXT800VP4. They seemed like pretty good units but I don't really want to deal with the license and the entire call sign deal since I would rarely use them anyway. I thought they would be good for when we were in two vehicles or camping, etc.

I honestly thought I wouldn't get much use out of mine as well. But a few months worth of hikes made me decide it was time to add a mobile unit on the jeep so it can act as a local repeater. As noted above, even 5 watts won't push much through a forest unless you have good line of sight, but it sure gets better distance than a 2 watt radio. With the 50 watt mobile acting as a repeater my only obstacle will be a mountain or ridge between us for most situations.

 

The call sign is an itty bitty pain when you consider the multitude of channels available to you and the willingness of other users to help out in a pinch including letting you get a word in edgewise. You won't get that from abusive teens putzing around on an FRS/GMRS for giggles.

 

Between vehicles, you'll get better distance locally as well as remotely, again, largely due to the higher mobile power and repeater availability.

 

You can start off small with a handheld, and attach the antenna to an adapter hooked to the window for better distance than you can get with a FRS/GMRS. Granted, it isn't the best of the HAM world, but it is a far better capability than those toys. I did that for almost a year before I got my mobile.

 

I've already chatted by repeater through the Internet to folks in Colorado and Hawaii. It's an amazing capability that goes beyond just chatting it up in the woods.

 

The thing about HAM is that the folks like to talk. I freaking hate to talk. I rarely answer the telephone. My dad calls me constantly and I only answer once per weekend. I don't feel the need to gab with folks all the time. On the other hand, I'm fairly prolific when it comes to posting. I can do that on my own time and either do it or not depending on my mood. I don't have to be nagged and hassled by a freaking ringing phone and someone demanding my time and attention. I'm a total phone curmudgeon. If I was a character on "The Waltons" I'd be some crabby old man who, "won't have that infernal contraption in my house!" Phone lines are for Internet access and an occasional call to Papa Murphy's for pizza. Given that state of mind, I don't think I'm cut out for the HAM community.

People talk to people that they know. I rarely "gab" with anybody on the radio. I was engaged in a onversation only a couple of times and it lasted all of 2 or 3 mintues. I do chat with Criminal now and then when our schedules mesh. Like the phone or the forums, you can choose when to use the radio