was i right in claiming FTF?

[+hukilaulau]

If you were the first then nobody else can be FTF regardless of what the owner, finder or anybody else says.

 

A FTF is not something to be awarded. It's a simple statement of fact. Either you are first, or you aren't.

I'm kinda surprised that you're being so rigid about this. In many areas "FTF" *is* in fact an award bestowed by the cache owner, and might not necessarily be given to the literal "first" to find the cache. ("KFC" has nothing to do with Kentucky anymore.) Are you saying they can't play that way? Slippery slope...

It is more slippery when you start redefining the word "first". FTF means "First To Find (after the cache was published)". Just because an owner says that you should only find it during certain hours does not change the fact that someone Found It First.

I'm not redefining anything. I'm saying that sometimes an icon comes to replace the very thing it represented. From 1991 to 1997 there was no "Kentucky" in "KFC". There was no point in arguing what KFC "meant." Like it or not, to some cache owners, FTF for their cache might not mean a literal "first". It means "FTF", however the cache owner wants to define it.

[+UncleJimbo]

If you were the first then nobody else can be FTF regardless of what the owner, finder or anybody else says.

 

A FTF is not something to be awarded. It's a simple statement of fact. Either you are first, or you aren't.

I'm kinda surprised that you're being so rigid about this. In many areas "FTF" *is* in fact an award bestowed by the cache owner, and might not necessarily be given to the literal "first" to find the cache. ("KFC" has nothing to do with Kentucky anymore.) Are you saying they can't play that way? Slippery slope...

It is more slippery when you start redefining the word "first". FTF means "First To Find (after the cache was published)". Just because an owner says that you should only find it during certain hours does not change the fact that someone Found It First.

I'm not redefining anything. I'm saying that sometimes an icon comes to replace the very thing it represented. From 1991 to 1997 there was no "Kentucky" in "KFC". There was no point in arguing what KFC "meant." Like it or not, to some cache owners, FTF for their cache might not mean a literal "first". It means "FTF", however the cache owner wants to define it.

Who calls these "EFF TEE EFFS"? FTF is pronounced "First To Find". The "KFC" analogy does not hold. Some of us have always called it Kentucky Fried Chicken (who knew there was no "Kentucky" in it officially?)

[+hukilaulau]

If you were the first then nobody else can be FTF regardless of what the owner, finder or anybody else says.

 

A FTF is not something to be awarded. It's a simple statement of fact. Either you are first, or you aren't.

I'm kinda surprised that you're being so rigid about this. In many areas "FTF" *is* in fact an award bestowed by the cache owner, and might not necessarily be given to the literal "first" to find the cache. ("KFC" has nothing to do with Kentucky anymore.) Are you saying they can't play that way? Slippery slope...

It is more slippery when you start redefining the word "first". FTF means "First To Find (after the cache was published)". Just because an owner says that you should only find it during certain hours does not change the fact that someone Found It First.

I'm not redefining anything. I'm saying that sometimes an icon comes to replace the very thing it represented. From 1991 to 1997 there was no "Kentucky" in "KFC". There was no point in arguing what KFC "meant." Like it or not, to some cache owners, FTF for their cache might not mean a literal "first". It means "FTF", however the cache owner wants to define it.

Who calls these "EFF TEE EFFS"? FTF is pronounced "First To Find". The "KFC" analogy does not hold. Some of us have always called it Kentucky Fried Chicken (who knew there was no "Kentucky" in it officially?)

Make up your mind! According to your post, it's pronounced, "First-to-find-after-the-cache-was-published" although I've never heard anyone say that. The KFC analogy does hold. Why? Because I say it does which is about the level this debate has sunk to.

[+ChileHead]

I'm claiming FTF, as I was the FTF the cache in the group I went with months after the cache was placed.

 

I say, don't "claim" anything. Keep a list of your FTFs private and enjoy knowing whether you were FTF or not the way you play. In your log, pretend you weren't first, and just write about what a fabulous journey you had, whether it was to the ammo can 5 miles back in the woods, or the pill bottle under the lamp post.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Who says that a cache owner gets to determine what FTF means? The cache owner DOES NOT get to determine who was the first to find the cache. The cacher who found the cache first gets to determine that. My beef is that a cache cannot be found 3 months before its published. If an owner is going to put a cache out and sit on their thumbs for 3 months before publishing it, maybe they need to re-evaluate placing caches in the first place.

[+BlueDeuce]

Ya place the cache, the person to sign the log is the FTF. Doesn't matter if it was by hook or crook or by someone simply stumbling over the container.

 

Even if it wasn't listed on any site.

[+Knight2000]

I cant take this anymore.

[+UncleJimbo]

If you were the first then nobody else can be FTF regardless of what the owner, finder or anybody else says.

 

A FTF is not something to be awarded. It's a simple statement of fact. Either you are first, or you aren't.

I'm kinda surprised that you're being so rigid about this. In many areas "FTF" *is* in fact an award bestowed by the cache owner, and might not necessarily be given to the literal "first" to find the cache. ("KFC" has nothing to do with Kentucky anymore.) Are you saying they can't play that way? Slippery slope...

It is more slippery when you start redefining the word "first". FTF means "First To Find (after the cache was published)". Just because an owner says that you should only find it during certain hours does not change the fact that someone Found It First.

I'm not redefining anything. I'm saying that sometimes an icon comes to replace the very thing it represented. From 1991 to 1997 there was no "Kentucky" in "KFC". There was no point in arguing what KFC "meant." Like it or not, to some cache owners, FTF for their cache might not mean a literal "first". It means "FTF", however the cache owner wants to define it.

Who calls these "EFF TEE EFFS"? FTF is pronounced "First To Find". The "KFC" analogy does not hold. Some of us have always called it Kentucky Fried Chicken (who knew there was no "Kentucky" in it officially?)

Make up your mind! According to your post, it's pronounced, "First-to-find-after-the-cache-was-published" although I've never heard anyone say that. The KFC analogy does hold. Why? Because I say it does which is about the level this debate has sunk to.

"Pronounced" and "means" are two different words.

 

KFC means "Kentucky Fried Chicken". It is pronounced "Kay Eff Cee".

FTF means "First To Find" (and of course includes that the find is made after publishing). I don't think many people pronounce FTF as "Eff Tee Eff". You can tell this because most people write it as "a FTF", not "an FTF".

 

Cheers, I am done with this side-track.

[+BlueDeuce]

I cant take this anymore.

 

55 posts? Man, I thought you were a seasoned poster.

[+Knight2000]

I cant take this anymore.

 

55 posts? Man, I thought you were a seasoned poster.

The same stuff, reworded over and over.

 

[+gof1]

I cant take this anymore.

 

55 posts? Man, I thought you were a seasoned poster.

 

Naw, he just smells like that.

 

I'm sorry! I'm sorry! I just couldn't resist the punchline.

I'm sure Knight2000 smells better than most cachers. Not that most cachers smell bad. I'm sure most shower regularly. Not that I keep track of those things. It's not like I peek into showers or anything. And thats not to say that baths aren't acceptable. Who am I to make such a judgment? I should just shut up now shouldn't I.

[+Jolly Roger]

Ok, so rather than starting a new thread what is everyone's take on claiming FTF when you cache as a group? There are 3 of us that go out all the time together and Im sure it will come up sometime...

[+BlueDeuce]

mmmm, seasoned poster.

[+BlueDeuce]

Ok, so rather than starting a new thread what is everyone's take on claiming FTF when you cache as a group? There are 3 of us that go out all the time together and Im sure it will come up sometime...

 

Well, usually when caching in a group you can either decide that when one finds it you can all then sign the log, or when one finds it they keep quiet, sit back and let the others take their turn.

 

Either way, the first to find it is the FTF.

[+UncleJimbo]

Ok, so rather than starting a new thread what is everyone's take on claiming FTF when you cache as a group? There are 3 of us that go out all the time together and Im sure it will come up sometime...

Just avoid the problem by never seeking unfound caches when you are with the group.

Seriously. I am not kidding.

[+Knight2000]

Naw, he just smells like that.

 

I'm sorry! I'm sorry! I just couldn't resist the punchline.

I'm sure Knight2000 smells better than most cachers. Not that most cachers smell bad. I'm sure most shower regularly. Not that I keep track of those things. It's not like I peek into showers or anything. And thats not to say that baths aren't acceptable. Who am I to make such a judgment? I should just shut up now shouldn't I.

No problem. I do smell like that!

 

Ok, so rather than starting a new thread what is everyone's take on claiming FTF when you cache as a group? There are 3 of us that go out all the time together and Im sure it will come up sometime...

My take is... Who cares? Seriously. I mean, i don't even get why people even think about this. The main reason we have went to look for new caches is my daughter hopes to get some decent swag. I have said "Hey, there is a new cache. Wanna go?" Sometimes she has said yes. Sometimes no.

 

It puzzles me why this is even ever brought up or discussed. I guess i never was into earning merit badges.

 

I am in the corner that FTF is a fact. Not a prize, contest, etc. Really though, how can anyone know if they really are FTF? I love it when you *might* be FTF and sign in the back of the log. That way someone else can come and scribble their FTF drool all over the first page and sleep better that night.

[+gof1]

Naw, he just smells like that.

 

I'm sorry! I'm sorry! I just couldn't resist the punchline.

I'm sure Knight2000 smells better than most cachers. Not that most cachers smell bad. I'm sure most shower regularly. Not that I keep track of those things. It's not like I peek into showers or anything. And thats not to say that baths aren't acceptable. Who am I to make such a judgment? I should just shut up now shouldn't I.

No problem. I do smell like that!

 

So I can stop looking over my shoulder? I did not sleep well last night. I was worried about some strange tights wearing caped avenger sorta something or other hunting me down. I swear I gotta learn to keep my mouth shut once in a while. Or at least to keep my fingers off the keyboard.

 

Happy caching!

May all your FTFs be legit.

Edited March 13, 2008 by gof1

[+ReadyOrNot]

My take is... Who cares? Seriously. I mean, i don't even get why people even think about this.

 

I don't understand why people who "Don't Care" about a topic feel the need to let everyone know that they don't care about that it's stupid to be debating the issue. If you truely didn't care, you wouldn't be in this thread and you wouldn't be reading it.

 

Carry on.

[+BlueDeuce]

My take is... Who cares? Seriously. I mean, i don't even get why people even think about this.

 

I don't understand why people who "Don't Care" about a topic feel the need to let everyone know that they don't care about that it's stupid to be debating the issue. If you truely didn't care, you wouldn't be in this thread and you wouldn't be reading it.

 

Carry on.

 

I believe K2 was referring to caring about FTF, not necessarily posting about it, and I agree. FTF can be a fun game but if it's causing angst is it really that important? I was involved in a FTF dispute once. I simply deleted my find and went back and signed the log again. It might not have resolved the issue on that particular cache but it did end it.

[+gof1]

My take is... Who cares? Seriously. I mean, i don't even get why people even think about this.

 

I don't understand why people who "Don't Care" about a topic feel the need to let everyone know that they don't care about that it's stupid to be debating the issue. If you truely didn't care, you wouldn't be in this thread and you wouldn't be reading it.

 

Carry on.

 

And miss out on watching all the silliness? FTF may not be important, but the entertainment value of threads like this are immeasurable.

 

 

I believe K2 was referring to caring about FTF, not necessarily posting about it, and I agree. FTF can be a fun game but if it's causing angst is it really that important? I was involved in a FTF dispute once. I simply deleted my find and went back and signed the log again. It might not have resolved the issue on that particular cache but it did end it.

 

How dare you get all sensible! Killjoy!

[+Harry Dolphin]

Ya place the cache, the person to sign the log is the FTF. Doesn't matter if it was by hook or crook or by someone simply stumbling over the container.

 

Even if it wasn't listed on any site.

 

Unless, of course, the cache owner tears the page out.

[+Isonzo Karst]

My beef is that a cache cannot be found 3 months before its published.

 

Sure it can. I found an ammo can in the woods that had sat there for easily three months waiting on a permit. I was second or third finder, post publication.

While it was waiting on the permit so it could be published here, it was found accidentally by some folks there to admire the view. And the coords were given to some friends of the cache owner, pending publication. The accidental finders were the first finders. They didn't know that they should be psyched about that. But they wrote some nice stuff in the log and left a lanyard.

 

I'm another in the "literal" camp, just so you know.

 

Regardless of how someone comes to find a cache first, they found it first. Seems incredibly simple to me....

[+BlueDeuce]

Ya place the cache, the person to sign the log is the FTF. Doesn't matter if it was by hook or crook or by someone simply stumbling over the container.

 

Even if it wasn't listed on any site.

 

Unless, of course, the cache owner tears the page out.

 

Another reason to walk away and cache another day.

[+ReadyOrNot]

My beef is that a cache cannot be found 3 months before its published.

 

Sure it can. I found an ammo can in the woods that had sat there for easily three months waiting on a permit. I was second or third finder, post publication.

While it was waiting on the permit so it could be published here, it was found accidentally by some folks there to admire the view. And the coords were given to some friends of the cache owner, pending publication. The accidental finders were the first finders. They didn't know that they should be psyched about that. But they wrote some nice stuff in the log and left a lanyard.

 

I'm another in the "literal" camp, just so you know.

 

Regardless of how someone comes to find a cache first, they found it first. Seems incredibly simple to me....

 

That's funny.. Maybe you can explain how a cache owner can delete the "literal" FTF then? I'm assuming that you believe the rule breaking cacher should be allowed to keep the FTF right?

 

Isonzo Karst's literal view of FTF

Edited March 13, 2008 by ReadyOrNot

[+gof1]

What rule was broken? There are no rules pertaining to FTF.

[+ReadyOrNot]

What rule was broken? There are no rules pertaining to FTF.

 

They hunted the cache during hours that the park was closed.

[+gof1]

A rule of the park, not FTF. Perhaps we should turn 'em in for the reward?

[+gof1]

Oh! THAT cache on THAT thread.

 

I probably would delete that log to. Nothing to do with FTF. Every thing to do with breaking the law and risking getting caching banned from another area. I wouldn't have listed FTF on the cache page.

[4wheelin_fool]

My beef is that a cache cannot be found 3 months before its published. If an owner is going to put a cache out and sit on their thumbs for 3 months before publishing it, maybe they need to re-evaluate placing caches in the first place.

 

Perhaps I shouldn't, but I'm going to ask. .

 

Why?

 

I've hidden quite a few caches that had been unlisted for more than 6 months or more. Why? Checking out how the camo is holding up, checking property ownership and access, waiting for warm weather, procrastinating writing HTML, last minute TB drop.....are a few of the reasons and I don't see anything wrong with it. The last two were hidden about 5 months previous before publishing.

 

Perhaps I should be concerned that an accidental finder may disrupt the natural order of FTF hierarchy? I'll have to ponder that thought..

Edited March 14, 2008 by 4wheelin_fool

[+ReadyOrNot]

Perhaps I should be concerned that an accidental finder may disrupt the natural order of FTF hierarchy? I'll have to ponder that thought..

 

Good, I'm glad you see the big picture here!

[+Isonzo Karst]

Oh THAT thread - deleting the log doesn't alter who was FTF!!!

 

The cacher who came in after hours was is and will always be FTF. The cache owner can delete the log as being "out of bounds" per the parks and his/her rules, but it doesn't alter the reality of who found the cache first.

[+ReadyOrNot]

Oh THAT thread - deleting the log doesn't alter who was FTF!!!

 

The cacher who came in after hours was is and will always be FTF. The cache owner can delete the log as being "out of bounds" per the parks and his/her rules, but it doesn't alter the reality of who found the cache first.

 

Ok At least you are being consistent ...

[GPS-Hermit]

I think FTF means all seekers had the same opportunity to go get it ASAP and using the published time is the only way. To me, even if you know it is about to be published and have your guard up - is cheating. I usually feel proud of the person beating me if it is done that way. I think of it being, surprized to see a new one and making a plan really fast. It is such an effort - I have long given up trying. If the cache is published on more than one site - the effort could be pointless. You could hurry out there and be beat by days.

Edited March 26, 2008 by GPS-Hermit

[+CSpenceFLY]

yesterday we went after 2 fairly new caches both published in the last week that had not been found yet the one in paticular was called a moose loose in the woods and was pub 3/2/08 we found it and when we opened the container there were a couple of names above mine but the dates were 11/27/07 and dec 2,07 i signed my name and when i logged it on the cache page i noted the names already there and said that since it was just published this week i was still claiming FTF. Was i right to do that?

 

Why don't you e-mail the owner and ask him about it. Seems like the quickest way to find out what is up with the cache.

[+Harry Dolphin]

yesterday we went after 2 fairly new caches both published in the last week that had not been found yet the one in paticular was called a moose loose in the woods and was pub 3/2/08 we found it and when we opened the container there were a couple of names above mine but the dates were 11/27/07 and dec 2,07 i signed my name and when i logged it on the cache page i noted the names already there and said that since it was just published this week i was still claiming FTF. Was i right to do that?

 

Why don't you e-mail the owner and ask him about it. Seems like the quickest way to find out what is up with the cache.

 

This has got to be one of the silliest answers I've seen!

It would probably get the answer, but would take all the fun and angst out of posting it in the fora!

[+TeamGumbo]

I'm just glad to see that there is something we can all agree on.

[+clevek]

i FREQUENTLY do a " F T D A S D A C S" (first to do a silly dance at cache site) even when I'm just out caching and finally find the DNF that I've logged two or three times, Take Care and keep on caching (T C A K O C)!