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New Colorado 400t Owner !


ctk2651

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Well ......

 

After much research, reading both good and bad reviews, I jumped in and bought the 400t from REI. This is my first gps for hiking / geocaching. Have had dedicated auto gps for years. So we'll see! First thing I did is update to the latest software (2.40). Now it is sitting on the back decking baking for a while with a fresh set of eneloop batteries in. Then we'll play around and get a feel for it. So far click wheel turns easy enough and things seem logical to me. Feel free to pass on comments, suggestions, condolences! :laughing:

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Well ......

 

After much research, reading both good and bad reviews, I jumped in and bought the 400t from REI. This is my first gps for hiking / geocaching. Have had dedicated auto gps for years. So we'll see! First thing I did is update to the latest software (2.40). Now it is sitting on the back decking baking for a while with a fresh set of eneloop batteries in. Then we'll play around and get a feel for it. So far click wheel turns easy enough and things seem logical to me. Feel free to pass on comments, suggestions, condolences! :laughing:

 

Congratulations! For not only the new purchase, but also for your first geocaching GPS unit and your excellent attitude. Something tells me you have a winning combination here. There is also something to be said about a person who is willing to ride the first technological wave of a product. This isn't your father's GPSmap 60!

 

I initially had difficulty with the Rock n' Roller, figuring out why I was always turning it the wrong way. Its quite intuitive as what needs to be done, but getting the brain wrapped around that in and automatic sense took some time. I tried switching hands at first, thinking that the brain would be fooled twice and I would get the results that I need. Somehow, and without warning, the proper internal wiring was made and I no longer have any issues with finding the proper shortcut that I need.

 

Good luck with your geocaching and your bright, shiny new toy ... tool ... caching partner. I don't think you'll ever regret your decision. - Pat

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Thanks Pat!

 

Need to understand how to use this puppy!

 

Well ......

 

After much research, reading both good and bad reviews, I jumped in and bought the 400t from REI. This is my first gps for hiking / geocaching. Have had dedicated auto gps for years. So we'll see! First thing I did is update to the latest software (2.40). Now it is sitting on the back decking baking for a while with a fresh set of eneloop batteries in. Then we'll play around and get a feel for it. So far click wheel turns easy enough and things seem logical to me. Feel free to pass on comments, suggestions, condolences! :laughing:

 

Congratulations! For not only the new purchase, but also for your first geocaching GPS unit and your excellent attitude. Something tells me you have a winning combination here. There is also something to be said about a person who is willing to ride the first technological wave of a product. This isn't your father's GPSmap 60!

 

I initially had difficulty with the Rock n' Roller, figuring out why I was always turning it the wrong way. Its quite intuitive as what needs to be done, but getting the brain wrapped around that in and automatic sense took some time. I tried switching hands at first, thinking that the brain would be fooled twice and I would get the results that I need. Somehow, and without warning, the proper internal wiring was made and I no longer have any issues with finding the proper shortcut that I need.

 

Good luck with your geocaching and your bright, shiny new toy ... tool ... caching partner. I don't think you'll ever regret your decision. - Pat

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I made the leap myself as well. It showed up from GPSNOW.com on Saturday. It is a whole new world compaired to my old Merigold. I have "played" with it about 7 hours now. The FAQ that GO$rs has kept is invaluble. Mine came loaded with 2.6/2.4. The only "wants" I have so far is waypoint averaging, and a caring case that has a see thru window. I have only seen the hard neoprene cases so far.

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I made the leap myself as well. It showed up from GPSNOW.com on Saturday. It is a whole new world compaired to my old Merigold. I have "played" with it about 7 hours now. The FAQ that GO$rs has kept is invaluble. Mine came loaded with 2.6/2.4. The only "wants" I have so far is waypoint averaging, and a caring case that has a see thru window. I have only seen the hard neoprene cases so far.

 

I don't think the Colorado needs waypoint averaging. Here's why:

 

Take a Garmin GPSmap 60 CSx and average a waypoint 8 times. Average that. They take a Garmin Colorado and let it sit for two average waypoint cycles and then take 8 (single) waypoints. Q - What do you see? A - Much more consistancy with the 8 waypoints (that all fall within the Averaged average waypoint +/- .001 minutes.)

 

If you bake your Colorado, you bake your GPSmap 60. If you allow the Colorado to sit on site for 5 minutes, you let your GPSmap 60 sit on site for 5 minutes. (You'll treat the new unit as well as or better than your previous unit.) You'll get accuate information WITHOUT wasting valuable time, simply because the new unit is as accurate as or even a little more accurate and stable as your old unit that averaged waypoints.

 

You have to realize here that once the GPS attains accuracy within that +/- .001' range, averaging waypoints is a waste of time and battery life. A scientist will (or at least should) know this. Most GPS users aren't scientists! The Colorado simply doesn't need waypoint averaging.

 

Don't believe me. Go out (under controlled conditions) and test it for yourself.

Edited by LifeOnEdge!
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[Don't believe me. Go out (under controlled conditions) and test it for yourself.

 

It's not that I don't believe you, but how is one gps more accurate than another. I don't have a 60 series, but the claimed accuracy is the same per Garmin. What is the best controlled conditions to test? Not a scientist, just an engineer, so I understand controlled test conditions.

Thanks

Flattie

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A scientist will (or at least should) know this. Most GPS users aren't scientists!

 

Is this a statement of fact or an assumption? Do you have concrete scientific data to back up this theory? If so, can we see the raw data? What was your null hypothesis? Did you perform a T or Z-test? What was your sample size? How do you define scientist? What percentage of handheld GPS receiver users are scientists and/or have formal scientific training? What percentage of geocachers are scientists and/or have formal scientific training? Would you say scientists are smarter than other users of handheld GPS receivers? Would you say you are smarter than other geocachers?

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Waypoint averaging does normally give you a better waypoint. Regrdless of all the "theories" all you need to do is go out and try it with a unit that does it and then go back and see how weel that point is placed. I've done a lot of this and the averaging creates a more accurate waypoint.

 

I really wish the armchair GPS users would find something else to talk about or go out and run some experiments....

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I recently placed a geocache with my Colorado 400t. I marked the point and then stared at it confused. It didn't look right. So I clicked on it and hit "GO" and it said it was 170 feet away. I REALLY want waypoint averaging in my 400t. I re-waypointed the spot and it was better but waypoint averaging would fix that. Just to be sure I averaged the point with my GPSMAP76C. One second of averaging would have fixed that little error...I am guessing it lost itself for a second just as I was entering the woods.

 

That aside, the Colorado is AWESOME. I just (this morning before work) hiked 4 miles thru the woods and hit 4 regular caches. I easily scrolled between the map page, cache description, previous logs, and marked them as found. Then I uploded them to my field notes and logged them...followed with pictures from my digital camera. In the woods this thing is awesome. The Topo maps were dead nuts on the terrain and elevation changes. And now that I am home I can dissect my hike with the data I took.

 

You will love this thing for hiking (just be sure to have plenty of rechargeables if you want to have it on all day...but what a little price to pay for such awesomeness).

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Add another new 400t owner to the mix!

 

I finally gave up on my Magellan Triton, returned it to REI and got the right tool for the job. Picked it up yesterday and have only very little time to play with it.

 

Two questions for other 400t folks.

 

1) Have you figured out if there's a specific order for connecting it to your PC? I've got all the software installed, but have only gotten it to recognize that it was connected once. Do I power it on, then connect? Connect, then power on? Do I need MapSource started first?

 

2) When I did have it connected I was able to SEND TO GARMIN directly from the GC.COM site a small number of caches. I had it outside for the first time on my drive home and noticed a lot more caches on the map than the 3 I loaded! Did Garmin preload a set or something?

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I don't use any specific order to power on/plug in. I've plugged in both powered off or powered on.

 

Does the CO go into Mass storage mode? The screen of the CO would have a picture of a computer attached to the GPS if it is. Can you see the CO as a drive letter on your PC? I'm assuming you are on a PC not a Mac.

 

I don't remember any geocaches loaded. Maybe the guys at REI were using it demo something. If you get it connected to your PC check to see if there are any gpx files in [drive]:\Garmin\GPX and delete them if you don't want them.

 

GO$Rs

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1) Have you figured out if there's a specific order for connecting it to your PC? I've got all the software installed, but have only gotten it to recognize that it was connected once. Do I power it on, then connect? Connect, then power on? Do I need MapSource started first?

 

2) When I did have it connected I was able to SEND TO GARMIN directly from the GC.COM site a small number of caches. I had it outside for the first time on my drive home and noticed a lot more caches on the map than the 3 I loaded! Did Garmin preload a set or something?

 

1) Should not matter. It powers on by itself when connected. Sounds like a PC side problem.

 

2) I have no idea. Look on the unit. All caches are in GPX files at \Garmin\GPX or below.

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1) Should not matter. It powers on by itself when connected. Sounds like a PC side problem.

 

2) I have no idea. Look on the unit. All caches are in GPX files at \Garmin\GPX or below.

 

Interesting. Tried several times to connect and it didn't power itself on. I jiggled the connector to the unit then it went on, then off. Seems if I play with the connection I can get it to just power on, or power on and connect. Then it showed a message, something about "Saving Waypoints to GPX format... 1%" then the screen fades away and off.

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OK... got it to connect and looked in the /Garmin/GPX directory and found a 7+MB file called COLORADO.GPX.

 

In the top of the source code of the file is:

 

<gpx xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema"
xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance"
version="1.0" creator="Groundspeak Pocket Query"
xsi:schemaLocation="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/0 http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/0/gpx.xsd http://www.Groundspeak.com/cache/1/0 http://www.Groundspeak.com/cache/1/0/cache.xsd http://www.gsak.net/xmlv1/2 http://www.gsak.net/xmlv1/2/gsak.xsd"
xmlns="http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/0">
<desc>Geocache file generated by GSAK (HasChildren)</desc>
<author>GSAK</author>
<email>support@gsak.net</email>
<time>2008-02-29T20:51:37.8125000-07:00</time>
<keywords>cache, geocache, Groundspeak</keywords>
<bounds minlat="38.21545" minlon="-78.02963333" maxlat="39.489233" maxlon="-76.544683"/>

 

Does this mean that I actually got a pre-owned unit? Seems kinda odd that all the caches are in my area.

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it gets stranger.... in the root directory there it a file called GEOCACHE_VISITS.TXT

 

In the file is:

 

17H3E N,2008-03-01T12:35Z,Found it,""
18TCN N,2008-02-29T12:52Z,Found it,""
17JQF N,2008-02-29T13:21Z,Found it,""
193K0 Y,2008-02-29T13:53Z,Found it,""
193K0 Y,2008-02-29T13:55Z,Found it,""
17TXP N,2008-03-01T14:14Z,Found it,""
19862 N,2008-03-01T14:30Z,Found it,""
18CV1 N,2008-03-01T14:53Z,Found it,""
18X83 N,2008-03-01T15:18Z,Found it,""
17R3P N,2008-03-01T15:55Z,Found it,""
18H78 N,2008-03-01T16:25Z,Found it,""
17N41 N,2008-03-01T16:53Z,Found it,""
17QEP N,2008-03-01T18:07Z,Found it,""
14DKV N,2008-03-01T18:18Z,Found it,""
17PV7 N,2008-03-01T20:19Z,Found it,""
1383Z N,2008-03-01T20:19Z,Found it,""
14CE8 N,2008-03-01T21:08Z,Found it,""

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any idea how to decipher the visits file? I search on the first code sequence for caches by that code, but nothing comes up.

Add "GC" in front. They look like caches in Virginia. There were a few visits to those caches on the same day as in the visits file by the same people. No one mentioned carrying a Colorado but I didn't look at all the logs.

 

GO$Rs

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any idea how to decipher the visits file? I search on the first code sequence for caches by that code, but nothing comes up.

 

If you edit the file to add "GC" in fornt of the names, you can upload it to your field notes in order to see the caches in question. They must have exported in GSAK using %drop2....

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If you edit the file to add "GC" in fornt of the names, you can upload it to your field notes in order to see the caches in question. They must have exported in GSAK using %drop2....

 

Thanks! I found that if I search the code of the pocketquery GPX file it points me right to the cache URL. Looks like a team of three cachers were all out caching together, as each cache had entries from the same three guys. (WWCD, donbadabon, and GLM)

 

Guess its another trip to REI tomorrow. Is there a certain serial number range or something I should make sure the replacement has?

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Holy cow..... I'd be screaming that they re-sold a returned unit......

 

Found the culprit. Post in this very form!

 

I'm a HUGE fan of REI and this just really disappoints me. I thought it was great of them to pull the Magellan Unit to force the mfg to get them right and not sell them to customers till they do. After much debating, I returned the Magellan, some troublesome trekking poles and used my member dividend to get this unit. Thinking I'll bring the laptop with me and test the replacement in the store.

 

Thanks for your help guys!

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I've been Geocaching now for less than a year and have been using my 60CSx and love it.I'm a techno geek and must have the latest and best of anything so I bought a 400T today. I did even after reading all the negative stuff but some good stuff also.Well, I'm very disappointed to the point where I am returning it tomorrow and will probably just continue to use my 60CSx until Garmin fixes the problems with the 400T. Here is what I've found I don't like about the 400T:

 

1. Yes, it is way to dim. In the store it looked fine but I took it outside when I got home and it was HARD to see the screen because of it being to dim. I turned on the backlight all the way and it was still to dim. I had it next to the 60CSx and the difference was like night and day....this was not acceptable.

 

2. Boot time REALLY SLOW

 

3. Satellite reception- really poor compared to the 60CSx. When both were next to each other outside where there are some trees (I live in Oregon) the 60CSx had 10 satellites where the 400T had only 4. Inside my house, the 60CSx was able to maintain 8 satellites and the 400T droppd down to 1. I think the 400T has a really crappy receiver.

 

4. Must take many many steps from point A to point B where with the 60CSx you only had maybe 4-5max.

 

5. Here was the worst problem. I use NiMH batteries in my 60CSx and I attempted to use them in the 400T. On boot up you get the screen and after a short while, it just turned itself OFF. I have tried using known fully charge batteries and no difference. I would use alkaline batterie though. Does this mean I have one of those defective units? I'm not sure.

 

At this point, I'm returning the unit tomorrow after work. If they want to exchange to see if the other one works properly, I'll give that a try for a day or two. If I don't see any changes, I'll return it for a full refund. Does anyone have any advice regarding the 400T. Should I keep and tell me why. Convince me that this isn't just a Triton with a Garmin label. Or am I doing the right thing in returning it and continue using my 60CSx until these problems are FIXED. :ph34r::)

Edited by stroute
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I recently placed a geocache with my Colorado 400t. I marked the point and then stared at it confused. It didn't look right. So I clicked on it and hit "GO" and it said it was 170 feet away. I REALLY want waypoint averaging in my 400t. I re-waypointed the spot and it was better but waypoint averaging would fix that.

I'm not sure if waypoint averaging would fix the issue you describe above. If you have 'outliers' in your data, they're just going to skew your final waypoint value. If you have 5 points that are x +/- 5 feet, and one that is x +/- 170 feet, you've just screwed up your final waypoint, by adding that point that's clearly erroneous into the averaging algorithm. That said, perhaps someone in the know could state whether the algorithm that Garmin uses would be smart enough to eliminate that spurious data.

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Traded my 400t in for another one at REI. They took it back no problem. Only issue was the last 400t they had left was the display. Took the laptop with me and made sure it connected before I took it. Didn't see anything preloaded.

 

Just ran the updater and tit did a firmware update and Chipset M update.

 

Looking at the properties in windows, out of the box, what should the amount of free space be? I'm showing 2.65GB used and 1.07GB free. Seems like it should have more free. In the /garmin/ directory is a file I don't remember on the other one called gmapprom.img that is 2.7GB. Any ideas?

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Traded my 400t in for another one at REI. They took it back no problem. Only issue was the last 400t they had left was the display. Took the laptop with me and made sure it connected before I took it. Didn't see anything preloaded.

 

Just ran the updater and tit did a firmware update and Chipset M update.

 

Looking at the properties in windows, out of the box, what should the amount of free space be? I'm showing 2.65GB used and 1.07GB free. Seems like it should have more free. In the /garmin/ directory is a file I don't remember on the other one called gmapprom.img that is 2.7GB. Any ideas?

 

That is correct. That file is the Topo Map.

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A scientist will (or at least should) know this. Most GPS users aren't scientists!

 

Is this a statement of fact or an assumption? Do you have concrete scientific data to back up this theory? If so, can we see the raw data? What was your null hypothesis? Did you perform a T or Z-test? What was your sample size? How do you define scientist? What percentage of handheld GPS receiver users are scientists and/or have formal scientific training? What percentage of geocachers are scientists and/or have formal scientific training? Would you say scientists are smarter than other users of handheld GPS receivers? Would you say you are smarter than other geocachers?

 

Blah, blah, and blah. What kind of smoke are you blowing my way? Hey, while you're ... :)

 

I stopped reading the post, but did catch the last question. Answer: Considerably (on average, of course.)

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I recently placed a geocache with my Colorado 400t. I marked the point and then stared at it confused. It didn't look right. So I clicked on it and hit "GO" and it said it was 170 feet away. I REALLY want waypoint averaging in my 400t. I re-waypointed the spot and it was better but waypoint averaging would fix that.

I'm not sure if waypoint averaging would fix the issue you describe above. If you have 'outliers' in your data, they're just going to skew your final waypoint value. If you have 5 points that are x +/- 5 feet, and one that is x +/- 170 feet, you've just screwed up your final waypoint, by adding that point that's clearly erroneous into the averaging algorithm. That said, perhaps someone in the know could state whether the algorithm that Garmin uses would be smart enough to eliminate that spurious data.

 

I have to agree here. I am almost positive that Mike did the following, but want to point this out for the person reading who is not aware:

 

On site, and after you have placed your geocache, you really need to let the GPS scan the sky for several minutes before taking data. I will "bake" my GPS for an hour under clear conditions before even going out and then try to take data for my caches with a clear sky and an optimal satellite configuration (Birds not too high and not too low, with an open distribution in the sky.)

 

I then take multiple points, but with the Colorado not taking near the time I would have with my GPSmap 60CSx.

 

You always, ALWAYS attempt to "find" the newly planted cache using some averaged waypoint for your cache. Do you come from different directions? Yes, if you can. Do you make this an all-day project? Depends. How much beer did you bring? :)

 

After seeing that you have a reasonable value for estimated GPS accuracy, I would suggest taking 10 data points (waypoints) with the Colorado, throwing out the farthest point, plotting the point and taking an average. Having the GPSmap 60 unit do this for me always made me feel uneasy.

 

NEVER, ever go out there, turn on your GPS, take one point and go home happy. If you live where I do. you'll have one geocacher all over your data ... LifeOnEdge!

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A scientist will (or at least should) know this. Most GPS users aren't scientists!

 

Is this a statement of fact or an assumption? Do you have concrete scientific data to back up this theory? If so, can we see the raw data? What was your null hypothesis? Did you perform a T or Z-test? What was your sample size? How do you define scientist? What percentage of handheld GPS receiver users are scientists and/or have formal scientific training? What percentage of geocachers are scientists and/or have formal scientific training? Would you say scientists are smarter than other users of handheld GPS receivers? Would you say you are smarter than other geocachers?

 

Blah, blah, and blah. What kind of smoke are you blowing my way? Hey, while you're ... :)

 

I stopped reading the post, but did catch the last question. Answer: Considerably (on average, of course.)

 

Wow!! A self proclaimed genius scientist resorting to weak and shameless middle school humor is sad....very sad. At least you didn’t suffer us to another unrelated parable about checking a babies diaper.

 

By the way, the only smoke being blown around here is that emanating from those who feel it is their responsibility to berate and insult those expressing their honest experiences and expectations in these forums.

 

If you'd like, I could re-cap all of the insults some have thrown out since the Colorado's release. There are only two or three offenders, so even us average geocachers should have no problem retracing the thread posts. They are not flattering and only support the fact that some of the more self absorbed are not nearly as intelligent or wise as they believe themselves to be.

 

Here are the simple facts:

 

1) Some have had no reported issues with their Colorado.

2) Some have had real issues that have nothing to do with user error.

 

If you had been unlucky enough to receive one (or more) of the “bad” units, you might have an entirely differing opinion. Opinion and perceived reality are often related to first impression and first hand experience.

 

Why did Garmin use the word “corrected” in their update/Firmware lists for the Colorado? They also use words like “added, changed, and enhanced.” Nobody held a gun to Garmin’s head when they put together and published these lists. In order for something to be corrected, it first must be incorrect. I won’t bore you with the definition of incorrect. To quote an unnamed poster; “Would you like me to draw you a picture?”

 

I’m glad you have a strong self image. Good for you! I’m glad your Colorado is perfect. Good for you! You first hand experiences are valued in these forums, but nobody is qualified to tell someone their first hand experiences have no value and/or their expectations are unrealistic.

 

Please refrain from attempting to pass off opinion as fact. Please try to limit your insults to yourself. You are entitled to your opinion, but some things just don’t need to be said in these forums.

 

Thanks!!

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I don't use any specific order to power on/plug in. I've plugged in both powered off or powered on.

 

Does the CO go into Mass storage mode? The screen of the CO would have a picture of a computer attached to the GPS if it is. Can you see the CO as a drive letter on your PC? I'm assuming you are on a PC not a Mac.

 

I don't remember any geocaches loaded. Maybe the guys at REI were using it demo something. If you get it connected to your PC check to see if there are any gpx files in [drive]:\Garmin\GPX and delete them if you don't want them.

 

GO$Rs

 

I have no idea what im doing with my Colorado.

 

Also, when i plug in my 400t its recognized as a mass storage device if anything (has the garmin connected to a pc picture on screen). Whats my point? i forgot.

 

i still cant load caches from gc.com. guess i have to read the manual. ughh. how do i load caches to my 400t? seems EasyGPS doesnt send them cuz when i press "send to device", nothing is there when turning on my colorado under geocaches. im confused.

Edited by DodgerBlues
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how do i load caches to my 400t?

 

Generate your GPX file on your PC.

 

Copy that GPX file to [drive]:\Garmin\GPX

 

Disconnect the unit from your computer.

 

Turn it on.

 

Your caches will be there.

 

Thanks Don. Actually they were showing up as waypoints.

 

After 3 hours of going nuts, i have figured it out.

 

GC.com..... click on the cache and it has a button to press "send to garmin" and walah!! It sends it to the Colorado along with all the info and comments. Not only that, but they fall right into the "Geocache" part of the Colorado. Finally!! It's so simple. I dont have to deal with EasyGPS or any other 3rd party. Its all there in one click.

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Hello to all,

 

I have had my 400t for two days now. I have updated to 2.4 firmware and like the feel of the unit. After reading the manual and playing with it I am quite happy with the unit.

 

I do have some questions though....

 

1.) Has anyone experienced issues with some caches locking up the unit? If I send directly to the unit from the GC web site the cache page displays fine. If I open the full description using the gpx file from GSAK or GC.com my unit locks up and requires batteries bieng pulled to reset unit.

 

Try this cache for your self to see if you get the same problems.... GC12EVG

 

2.) Also, I am not getting my description / comments to display when I upload custom poi. Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

 

Happy Caching!

Edited by flatkatz
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Yes on both points...

 

1) Some caches cause the unit to lock up. There is a whole thread or three on the subject.

 

2) Comments don't show on custom POIs... However, the "Name" field holds 1023 characters, so you can store whatever you want there.

 

Here is a custom POI screenshot that I have.

168.jpg

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After 3 hours of going nuts, i have figured it out.

 

GC.com..... click on the cache and it has a button to press "send to garmin" and walah!! It sends it to the Colorado along with all the info and comments.

 

But this is a one-click per one-cache action, correct?

 

If you were to load 2000 caches for a long trip, wouldn't that mean 2000 clicks?

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