Distance from posted to real puzzle coordinates

[+Silny Jako Bek]

Aren't the posted and actual coordinates for puzzle (mystery) caches supposed to be within 2 miles of each other? I've noticed a lot of these caches published lately where the actual coordinates are way, way farther away (one more than 25 miles away!). Have the rules changed, or are the reviewers not abiding by them?

[+palmetto]

Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles (2-3 kilometres) away from the true cache location.

 

Quote from the relevant section of the listing guidelines - bold emphasis mine. Perhaps the cache owner(s) are providing good reason?

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#mystery

[+Silny Jako Bek]

Hard to image what kind of good reason one could have to not be within the 1-2 miles...but 25?

[+TrailGators]

Unless a good reason otherwise can be provided, the posted coordinates should be no more than 1-2 miles (2-3 kilometres) away from the true cache location.

 

Quote from the relevant section of the listing guidelines - bold emphasis mine. Perhaps the cache owner(s) are providing good reason?

 

http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#mystery

I'm thinking that they were granted an exception. Edited March 10, 2008 by TrailGators

[+Michael]

Aren't the posted and actual coordinates for puzzle (mystery) caches supposed to be within 2 miles of each other? I've noticed a lot of these caches published lately where the actual coordinates are way, way farther away (one more than 25 miles away!). Have the rules changed, or are the reviewers not abiding by them?

 

So whats the GC# of the cache you submitted and were told to change it?

[+Silny Jako Bek]

"Michael", I didn't submit anything. I have just been figuring some puzzle caches and have noticed that some recent ones have been way beyond 2 miles. It's just a question; no need to be snippy...

[+J-Way]

I've seen a few that were over 2 miles off, but not much more than that. I'm planning one near Chattanooga where I'm thinking about requesting an exception to that rule (yes, I do have what I think is a valid reason, but we'll see if my local approver agrees). It'll be about 2.2 miles if I get it approved.

 

But 25 miles is a bit extreme... are you sure you solved the puzzle right?

 

That far off will throw off travel bug mileage, and maybe even put the cache in the wrong county, Delorme Grid, or even State, which could affect people working on certain "Challenge" caches.

[+Silny Jako Bek]

Yes, it's really that far off; there's a coordinate checker on the cache page and the CO confirmed as I was surprised by the distance . There is another closer to my home base that just was published and that one is 5 or 6 miles miles away from the posted coordinates (and they are the correct coordinates).

[Keystone]

1. An exception may have been granted.

2. The cache owner could have provided false information about the final cache location.

3. You could have solved the puzzle wrong.

4. The cache may have been published by one of those darn "human" reviewers. The robotic reviewers who never miss an issue like the two mile test are still in the development phase. Right now they're being programmed to archive a cache submission if it's 527 feet from an existing cache.

 

Could you post a few GC numbers for us to look at?

[+Walts Hunting]

I don't think that distance is that uncommon. Here are three

 

Marines and Sailors from the MCCC in 29 Palms by Bob & Bev of The L.O.S.T. Team (1/1)

N34° 08.194 W116° 03.281 (WGS84)

UTM 11S E 587160 N 3777702

Use waypoint: GCJQ10

 

Desert Trail by Bob & Bev of The L.O.S.T. Team (1/1.5)

N34° 08.270 W116° 03.281 (WGS84)

UTM 11S E 587158 N 3777842

Use waypoint: GCJQ0X

Size: Micro Hidden on 6/12/2004

In California, United States

 

Details are from the offline database last updated on 3/5/2008 (Online waypoint URL)

 

Cattle Days in Hidden Valley by Bob & Bev of The L.O.S.T. Team (1/1.5)

N34° 08.350 W116° 03.279 (WGS84)

UTM 11S E 587160 N 3777990

Use waypoint: GCJQ0W

Size: Micro Hidden on 6/12/2004

In California, United States

 

They are all in 29 Palms but the cache is in Yucca Valley (check the hint) which is 22 miles away. Some of the others in the sequence are 5 miles away. I got quite a shock when I started a couple and the distance was so far.

[Keystone]

Your examples from 2004 help to illustrate why the "mile or two" guideline was added. These older caches are grandfathered.

[+Mule Ears]

Sounds like a feeble effort to bolster a weak puzzle.

[+Silny Jako Bek]

Okay, I'll post some GC numbers....but I would like to say that I did not start the thread to make problems for puzzle cache creators.... It's not an condemnation of the reviewers either; I know they are human and do their best, I was just wondering if the guidelines had been changed.

 

To quote another cacher: "Even if the guideline did not exist, courtesy and common sense dictate that the posted coords should be in the ballpark". I just think that making coordinates way beyond the 2 mile guideline makes solving them much harder plus it ties up a spot (posted coordinates) in one place where no nearby cache exists.

 

Here's some examples of recently published caches where the posted coordinates are significantly farther than 2 miles from the posted coordinates.

GC15G67

GC19YH4

GC15FJ9

 

Of course, most of you will have to take my word for it because I'm not posting the actual coordinates....

Edited March 10, 2008 by Silny Jako Bek

[+Silny Jako Bek]

Sounds like a feeble effort to bolster a weak puzzle.

 

That's just it; in most cases the puzzles are great and aren't aided by the distant coordinates. The COs don't need the added distance to make the puzzles work.

[Keystone]

The guidelines haven't changed.

 

Thanks for the examples. They fall into three of the four possible explanations I listed in my prior post, so it's a good sample.

 

::: shrug :::

[+the hermit crabs]

The robotic reviewers who never miss an issue like the two mile test are still in the development phase.

Speaking of the robot reviewers, does anyone know what sort of things are considered tempting or irresistible to robots? I've got a good bribe list for human reviewers (chocolate, beer, pizza, foot rubs, cheese, etc.) but that list will be obsolete one of these days.

[Mr.Yuck]

Your examples from 2004 help to illustrate why the "mile or two" guideline was added. These older caches are grandfathered.

 

Yup, I hid one in '05 or '06 where I say it's within 5 miles on the cache page, although it's 3 at the most in reality. There was no policy, I just figured 5 miles was a good distance to give. The only puzzle cache I've hidden after the guideline change is distant compliant, which I knew about from hanging around in these lovely forums.

[+uxorious]

"Michael", I didn't submit anything. I have just been figuring some puzzle caches and have noticed that some recent ones have been way beyond 2 miles. It's just a question; no need to be snippy...

 

I may be off base here, but I didn't feel "Michael" meant to be "snippy". I think he was just asking for a GC#. When reading the forums, it can be hard to get a feel for a posters intentions. It is usually better for your own peace of mind and for the poster your reading, to assume the best.

 

Of course it is possible he was being "snippy". In which case he may have deserved a rebuke.

[+bflentje]

Aren't the posted and actual coordinates for puzzle (mystery) caches supposed to be within 2 miles of each other? I've noticed a lot of these caches published lately where the actual coordinates are way, way farther away (one more than 25 miles away!). Have the rules changed, or are the reviewers not abiding by them?

 

So whats the GC# of the cache you submitted and were told to change it?

 

Combatative post coming from a moderator?

[+PilotMan]

Who cares? If it's too far away, don't go to it. If you went through all the trouble of solving the puzzle, then go find it. It's only 25 miles. Do it on a weekend. Make an afternoon of it. There are plenty of other, better things to waste time griping about.

[+the pooks]

Who cares? If it's too far away, don't go to it. If you went through all the trouble of solving the puzzle, then go find it. It's only 25 miles. Do it on a weekend. Make an afternoon of it. There are plenty of other, better things to waste time griping about.

 

Almost by definition, geocaching lets you discuss something that is not important. The whole game is not really important. If you want to be practical, don't cache in the first place - I mean writing your name in a book in a plastic box and then logging it online and getting excited about it. I think the OP is entirely justified in asking the question. Oops - now we are deviating off the topic.

[+Prime Suspect]

Who cares? If it's too far away, don't go to it. If you went through all the trouble of solving the puzzle, then go find it. It's only 25 miles. Do it on a weekend. Make an afternoon of it. There are plenty of other, better things to waste time griping about.

Who cares? Someone who is trying to place a cache, and did the due diligence of checking out the puzzles within a 2 mile radius, only to have the cache denied because of a puzzle 14 miles away.

[+puppymonster]

The robotic reviewers who never miss an issue like the two mile test are still in the development phase.

Speaking of the robot reviewers, does anyone know what sort of things are considered tempting or irresistible to robots? I've got a good bribe list for human reviewers (chocolate, beer, pizza, foot rubs, cheese, etc.) but that list will be obsolete one of these days.

Yes, even for robot reviewers.

 

Of course, one strike for you on your record for not including them on your existing list.

[+the hermit crabs]

The robotic reviewers who never miss an issue like the two mile test are still in the development phase.

Speaking of the robot reviewers, does anyone know what sort of things are considered tempting or irresistible to robots? I've got a good bribe list for human reviewers (chocolate, beer, pizza, foot rubs, cheese, etc.) but that list will be obsolete one of these days.

Yes, even for robot reviewers.

 

Of course, one strike for you on your record for not including them on your existing list.

oh, but I did... that's what the "etc." stood for. Edible Tibia-shaped Cookie.

 

Glad to know they'll work for robots too

[+puppymonster]

Edible Tibia-shaped Cookie.

 

Glad to know they'll work for robots too

Mmmmmm... nice one. Happy puppy again!

[+UncleJimbo]

Who cares? If it's too far away, don't go to it. If you went through all the trouble of solving the puzzle, then go find it. It's only 25 miles. Do it on a weekend. Make an afternoon of it. There are plenty of other, better things to waste time griping about.

The line has to be drawn somewhere. If I am going to take the time to solve a puzzle, I want to have some assurance that the cache will be in the area and not 1000 miles away.

 

25 miles seems to be over the line to me (and to GC.com).