What Happend?

[+pigpen4x4]

So what happend to Scotts thread about the Axim's?

PP

[+Team Rijon]

It was gone when I checked early this morning (6am), was kind of wondering the same thing.

[+TheBattons]

TheBattons, Scott, & VENTUREMAN7/ "A" TEAM" listings all deemed "commercial" and thus not allowed here.

[+doingitoldschool]

Having just read the posting guidelines, I can understand the decision, but it's too bad, becuase these guys were very good to deal with and had great products.

[+pigpen4x4]

I feel strogly that these guys are providing a valuble service and hopefully some consideration could be given. Their prices don't reflect much (if any) profit, and perhaps that should be the basis of a commercial endever.

PP4x4

[+VENTUREMAN7/ "A" TEAM"]

I feel strogly that these guys are providing a valuble service and hopefully some consideration could be given. Their prices don't reflect much (if any) profit, and perhaps that should be the basis of a commercial endever.

PP4x4

 

The Guidelines from Groundspeak Do Not Allow us to have "Multiple Items' FOR SALE. There seems to be NO Consideration to whether we are Making a Profit or Simply Offering a Needed Product, Information,and Service to those Seeking to "Go Paperless". These are the Guidelines that "Big Brother" as Set, so we will work to stay Inside those Guidelines! Cache on my Friends!

[+TheBattons]

I feel strogly that these guys are providing a valuble service and hopefully some consideration could be given. Their prices don't reflect much (if any) profit, and perhaps that should be the basis of a commercial endever.

PP4x4

 

The Guidelines from Groundspeak Do Not Allow us to have "Multiple Items' FOR SALE. There seems to be NO Consideration to whether we are Making a Profit or Simply Offering a Needed Product, Information,and Service to those Seeking to "Go Paperless". These are the Guidelines that "Big Brother" as Set, so we will work to stay Inside those Guidelines! Cache on my Friends!

 

I don't see anywhere that mentions "multiple items", and have taken it up with the appeals board.

 

As stated above, we (at least I) don't make any profit on this. I am into a 4-figure deficit not including my time and labor in providing inexpensive PDAs. I

 

I'd like to add that part of get more up to speed with paperless caching usually includes Pocket Queries, pushing new cachers towards purchasing a Premium.

 

But hey, if they think we are horning in on their profits, please cancel my account, I'll spend my time fishing instead.

 

I'd suggest that anyone that has, or would like to, work with any of us that have offered PDAs and/or setup assistance in getting started in paperless caching, PLEASE let geocaching.com know. I feel that we improve the hobby, and unless geocaching.com is all about generating income for the sites owner's and not improving the experience they will allow us to continue.

 

Oh, and as long as I have an account, don't hesitate to contact me with any paperless caching "how-to" questions, I still happily answer them.

 

Cheers,

TheBattons

[+RedSky Aussies]

I, for one, hope the Powers That Be relent and allow them to continue to offer us great deals. I recently purchased a PDA from the Battons and got a great deal and freindly and efficient service. It is not like these folks are making accounts here for the sole purpose of selling their items and then vanishing after a few sales.

Good luck guys!

[+VENTUREMAN7/ "A" TEAM"]

I feel strogly that these guys are providing a valuble service and hopefully some consideration could be given. Their prices don't reflect much (if any) profit, and perhaps that should be the basis of a commercial endever.

PP4x4

 

The Guidelines from Groundspeak Do Not Allow us to have "Multiple Items' FOR SALE. There seems to be NO Consideration to whether we are Making a Profit or Simply Offering a Needed Product, Information,and Service to those Seeking to "Go Paperless". These are the Guidelines that "Big Brother" as Set, so we will work to stay Inside those Guidelines! Cache on my Friends!

 

I don't see anywhere that mentions "multiple items", and have taken it up with the appeals board.

 

As stated above, we (at least I) don't make any profit on this. I am into a 4-figure deficit not including my time and labor in providing inexpensive PDAs. I

 

I'd like to add that part of get more up to speed with paperless caching usually includes Pocket Queries, pushing new cachers towards purchasing a Premium.

 

But hey, if they think we are horning in on their profits, please cancel my account, I'll spend my time fishing instead.

 

I'd suggest that anyone that has, or would like to, work with any of us that have offered PDAs and/or setup assistance in getting started in paperless caching, PLEASE let geocaching.com know. I feel that we improve the hobby, and unless geocaching.com is all about generating income for the sites owner's and not improving the experience they will allow us to continue.

 

Oh, and as long as I have an account, don't hesitate to contact me with any paperless caching "how-to" questions, I still happily answer them.

 

Cheers,

TheBattons

 

TheBattons, I agree with you all the way!!! I have already went to the Appeals Board" and this is the Response and Consideration I received from them;

 

I am sorry but the moderator is correct. The GPS Garage Sale is for the

occasional sale of items by geocachers (like, one or two spare PDA's). Selling

multiple items is not what this is for. We appreciate your helping people with

paperless caching but sales of more than a few items are not allowed.

 

 

Thank you,

 

Michael

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

 

 

I even ask for Suggestions on how We can Help Cachers who had the Desire to "Go Paperless" and still stay in the Guidelines. I feel that their Response was LESS than Helpful!!! I too will STILL help anyone who has Questions concerning Paperless Caching. Email me; mkarehart@charter.net

Edited March 8, 2008 by VENTUREMAN7/ "A" TEAM"

[Keystone]

There are dozens of threads in the Getting Started forum, the Geocaching Topics forum and the GPS Units and Software forum where helpful geocachers offer assistance with paperless caching issues. There, we typically discuss the questions directly in the forum thread, rather than inviting people to send e-mails. That way, other community members may benefit from the advice.

 

Such posts are off-topic in the GPS Garage Sale forum, however.

Edited March 8, 2008 by Keystone

[+mtn-man]

But hey, if they think we are horning in on their profits, please cancel my account, I'll spend my time fishing instead.

I find this rather telling. If you are not allowed to sell regularly in this forum, you want to cancel your account?

 

I feel that we improve the hobby, and unless geocaching.com is all about generating income for the sites owner's and not improving the experience they will allow us to continue.

I also find this rather telling too. How about we have a little reality check here...

 

This site doesn't sell equipment, it is a listing service for geocaches. This site is constantly improving the experience by adding new features, such as the pocket queries that are used in paperless caching. Without this service offered by Groundspeak, your sales of PDA's would not be needed at all for paperless caching. When you actually examine the situation, your sales *totally* depend on Groundspeak's constant efforts in improving the experience. You should be thanking them frankly. Instead, you threaten the site by saying you will quit the site if you are not allowed to continue your sales. If either of you bought too much equipment personally for whatever reason, then that is a problem that you generated for yourself. Since this site is not a GPS and/or related device sales site, the impact on Groundspeak is a big fat zero.

 

I will also echo what Keystone said. If you honestly want to be helpful, then you should be a regular poster in the GPS Units and Software Forum, not in this forum. I see that you have posted some in that forum, so I will hope you will continue to provide assistance to all members of the community, not just to those who email you.

[+BlueDeuce]

edited for content

 

I would suggest people feel free to use the forum to ask about going paperless. There are plenty of people who can answer such questions.

Edited March 9, 2008 by BlueDeuce

[Motorcycle_Mama]

I don't see anywhere that mentions "multiple items", and have taken it up with the appeals board.

 

As stated above, we (at least I) don't make any profit on this. I am into a 4-figure deficit not including my time and labor in providing inexpensive PDAs. I

 

I'd like to add that part of get more up to speed with paperless caching usually includes Pocket Queries, pushing new cachers towards purchasing a Premium.

 

But hey, if they think we are horning in on their profits, please cancel my account, I'll spend my time fishing instead.

 

I'd suggest that anyone that has, or would like to, work with any of us that have offered PDAs and/or setup assistance in getting started in paperless caching, PLEASE let geocaching.com know. I feel that we improve the hobby, and unless geocaching.com is all about generating income for the sites owner's and not improving the experience they will allow us to continue.

 

Oh, and as long as I have an account, don't hesitate to contact me with any paperless caching "how-to" questions, I still happily answer them.

 

Cheers,

TheBattons

TheBattons, I agree with you all the way!!! I have already went to the Appeals Board" and this is the Response and Consideration I received from them;

 

I am sorry but the moderator is correct. The GPS Garage Sale is for the

occasional sale of items by geocachers (like, one or two spare PDA's). Selling

multiple items is not what this is for. We appreciate your helping people with

paperless caching but sales of more than a few items are not allowed.

 

Thank you,

 

Michael

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

 

I even ask for Suggestions on how We can Help Cachers who had the Desire to "Go Paperless" and still stay in the Guidelines. I feel that their Response was LESS than Helpful!!! I too will STILL help anyone who has Questions concerning Paperless Caching. Email me; mkarehart@charter.net

It's been a long time since I've seen such a self-serving diatribe.

 

If you want to sell products, set up your own website and advertise them there. To pose this as if you are performing some charitable public service is disingenuous at best and outright misrepresentation at worst.

 

As mtn-man suggested, if you are really concerned about helping others, hang out in the GPS forum and help people there.

[+pigpen4x4]

I feel a new cacher can come here, get a GREAT PDA for however much they can/want to spend, and then get great support too. If they can't get it to communicate, if they bought it from one of these three guys they can get direct answers to solve their problems. It's better for the buyer than sorting through the forums for more generic answers.

 

My point is these guys offer a service to this community for little or no financial gain. Let’s see if we can do something to keep their equipment available for our benefit.

 

Please?

 

PP4x4

[+Rogoo]

Looks Like I got mine just in time. Glad I got my pda from Ventureman before this was removed I couldnt find a better deal anywhere and I should save enough in ink to pay for it in about another month.

[+minnesotabrad]

Here is the question I have regarding the decision to not allow the sale of these here. I seems that people were getting a good deal from what I can read so here is my question.

What is the difference of someone selling some pocket PC's or those that post a sale of 300 or more geocoins in another topic?

We had a challenge cache archived in my area that required you to release a 100 geocoins in the wild before finding the cache and this is the reason that was posted. " The requirement to own 100 coins to log this cache makes it a commercial cache. Forcing the ownership of coins is commercial as they are sold, or traded for other things of worth. You can not require a person to own an item to log a cache as this is commercial. Commercial caches need the permission of Groundspeak to be allowed."

Don't get me wrong I love hearing and being able to see and buy new geocoins being made but I am trying to figure out if the rules are fair. Thanks for replies that will help me understand the rules.

Edited March 11, 2008 by minnesotabrad

[Keystone]

Geocoin sales are governed by the rules in the pinned thread at the top of the Geocoin Discussions forum. GPS Garage Sale transactions are governed by the rules in the pinned thread at the top of this forum. The rules for selling apples are different from the rules for selling oranges.

[+mtn-man]

What is the difference of someone selling some pocket PC's or those that post a sale of 300 or more geocoins in another topic?

Permission.

 

Let me add that there is a web site for selling things you have too much of. He can sell them on eBay all day long. You can also buy these on eBay right now. You can probably find them cheaper than he is selling them too.

Edited March 11, 2008 by mtn-man

[+Scott-N8ZUS]

Also only GC.com Trackable Geocoins can only be sold there. Meaning Geocoins which hasn't got the "Paid For Tracking Number" on them can't be sold there. Tracking numbers can only be obtained by Buying them from Groundspeak. So sell all you want! Their getting money from the sales.

Edited March 12, 2008 by Scott-N8ZUS

[+briansnat]

I feel a new cacher can come here, get a GREAT PDA for however much they can/want to spend, and then get great support too. If they can't get it to communicate, if they bought it from one of these three guys they can get direct answers to solve their problems. It's better for the buyer than sorting through the forums for more generic answers.

 

My point is these guys offer a service to this community for little or no financial gain. Let’s see if we can do something to keep their equipment available for our benefit.

 

Please?

 

PP4x4

 

Their equipment is still available for "our" benefit. Unless Keystone made them throw it all away.

[+Miragee]

<snip>

We had a challenge cache archived in my area that required you to release a 100 geocoins in the wild before finding the cache and this is the reason that was posted. " The requirement to own 100 coins to log this cache makes it a commercial cache. Forcing the ownership of coins is commercial as they are sold, or traded for other things of worth. You can not require a person to own an item to log a cache as this is commercial. Commercial caches need the permission of Groundspeak to be allowed."

Don't get me wrong I love hearing and being able to see and buy new geocoins being made but I am trying to figure out if the rules are fair. Thanks for replies that will help me understand the rules.

YIKES! I'm glad a cache like that wasn't ever posted in this area. Having to own, and release, 100 Geocoins is asking a lot of the average Geocacher who might be having a hard time just budgeting for caching adventures with gas at $3.50 a gallon.

 

As to the OPs post, eBay has always been my chosen site for purchasing things like PDAs, not the Garage Sale Forum.

[+mtn-man]

Also only GC.com Trackable Geocoins can only be sold there. Meaning Geocoins which hasn't got the "Paid For Tracking Number" on them can't be sold there.

I'm touched. You *actually* read the guidelines. I just makes me want to cry.

 

Funny. eBay charges fees. It is how you stay in business. Welcome to business in the real world.

 

Groundspeak supports cachers who utilized their services and allows people to advertise their coins with the Geocoin forum. That makes perfect sense. People pay a premium to make their coins trackable. Groundspeak offers benefits for that. One is trackability and another is the use of the forum. I think that is cool of them to do that frankly.

 

But we are not talking about geocoins in this forum now are we. Let's see if we can stay on topic.

 

The Garage Sale forum is a service for the individual cacher who wants to sell one item so they can either upgrade to something better or so they can get out of geocaching and offer their item to those who need it. It most certainly isn't a venue for you to avoid seller fees if you are going to sell multiple items of the same type so you can avoid eBay type fees. If you want to sell multiple items, there are places for that. As I have said, the items you guys were selling can be found cheaper on eBay. You just appear to want to make more money here and want to avoid fees.

 

I just did a search and found one of your sales for a Dell axim x3i. You sold it for $120.00. How about one on eBay right now for $14.50. Here is another for $50.00 Sure, the price will probably go up. I would guess they won't go over $120.00 though. I might be bidding on those since I want to get into Wherigo. At least this one for a buy-it-now price of $140.00 also includes a 2GB card and a Dell folding keyboard. The keyboard runs for $40.00 on eBay, so you can do the math there.

 

You guys need to quit the moaning and move on.

[+Scott-N8ZUS]

Yeah! I've been down the Geocoin road, and Paid my dues for the tracking numbers. So I know all about it! Just there is one line in the Geocoin Rules that doe's say "For Personal Profit" I had to mention.

 

Just a note, and not a debate I have seen the prices drop on PPC's so my last post that was deleted for them was lower than the quote you just gave. I also ate Shipping, and PayPal fees so you can take that off the current bargain prices.

 

Anyway's I've quit my moaning so now it's time to close this thread, and put this Debate to a end before it gets more off topic!

 

Agreed?

Edited March 13, 2008 by Scott-N8ZUS

[+Mopar]

Just to echo mtn-man a bit. I too was in the market for a cheap PDA for caching. I end up killing at least one a year caching, so no need for top of the line. I also have a good idea of what these things are worth since I've been through 6-7 of them caching.

Anyway, someone suggested to me that I email one of the people here because it seemed like other people thought he had good prices. His "good deal" was $60 for a Palm M500 to my door. That seemed pretty steep, especially considering almost 3yrs ago I bought a M500 from someone here in the forums for $35. So, I did my usual ebay route instead, and got a Palm M500 and a Palm V, with all their assorted cradles and cases etc, for a grand total of $32.50 with the shipping.

[+pigpen4x4]

I feel a new cacher can come here, get a GREAT PDA for however much they can/want to spend, and then get great support too. If they can't get it to communicate, if they bought it from one of these three guys they can get direct answers to solve their problems. It's better for the buyer than sorting through the forums for more generic answers.

 

My point is these guys offer a service to this community for little or no financial gain. Let’s see if we can do something to keep their equipment available for our benefit.

 

Please?

 

PP4x4

 

Their equipment is still available for "our" benefit. Unless Keystone made them throw it all away.

 

TOUCHE'!

But will the new guys know to contact them?

 

On a second note, it may be time to put this one to bed.

Good night!

PP4x4

[Keystone]

Thanks to a helpful forum community member who used the "report this post" feature, I was alerted to the OP's desire to close their thread.

 

Closing thread.