Jump to content

Are you ever worried about your safety?


Andy73
Followers 4

Recommended Posts

Knight, see about getting her a taser. Two darts wont help in a gang situation, but one-on-one they are almost as good as firearms.

Funny you should say that. I was at a gun show last weekend and i heard what sounded like someone dropped something glass (shattered) and then an unmistakable sound of buzzing. Wow, it commanded your attention. It was a demonstration of the taser. I wasnt right there, about 25 feet away. It was really something. Also kind of irritating as many, including me, didnt know it was going to happen and it startled us.

 

BTW- My daily steal has them for $260 today.

 

My wife isnt afraid of shooting. I have seen her shoot an AR-15 and a .454 casull. ;) She just doesn't want to carry at this point. We have kids, so it is always a concern. You cant teach them safety but you still have to be careful.

 

Boy, I bet I either sound like a wet blanket or the voice of reason. :)

 

I have actually been involved in independant taser testing and developed a course of instruction for the use of tasers.

 

During our tests which lasted over a year and hundreds upon hundreds of taser cartridges expended we came up with an overall failure rate of 27%.

 

I wouldn't carry a gun if I KNEW that 1 in 4 bullets was likely to misfire let alone a taser with ONE shot.

 

During my CHL instructor training, the Commander of the Texas DPS announced a program to introduce Tasers into the DPS force continuum. I sent Commander Rodriguez my data on the model we used for our test and lo and behold, the DPS never adopted the taser program.

Edited by Snoogans
Link to comment

it was a tongue in cheek comment, I promise ;)

 

I have spent a lot of time in the states and I'm very fond of Americans, I have even dated a couple :D (neither of whom, to the best of my knowledge, brought any weaponry out with them, but of course it could have been concealed :))

 

but yes, my nervousness around guns stems from lack of exposure to them over here, and long may that state of affairs continue :D

 

eek you Americans scare me :)

 

I had the gun chat once with a taxi driver in Miami, I was telling him how scared I am of them and could never touch one, and he calmly leaned over and opened his glove compartment and there was a HUGE hand gun.

 

I screamed like a girl while he nearly wet himself laughing.

 

I stuttered "is-is-is-is-is-is i-i-i-i-it loaded????" and he laughed and said "of course it is, what use would it be if it wasn't???"

 

Sometimes I'm glad I live in England :)

 

I would contend that it is your unfamiliarity with guns is what scares you, not us Americans.

 

Understanding the hard facts of concealed weapon carry and then researching the history of why this right was written into our constitution in the first place will help you immensely in this regard.

 

Perhaps you might even consider the day when your country needs some real help and what country will proudly be there by your side faster than you would ever imagine they could be. What if we showed up to protect you with sticks?

 

Along this journey you may even learn to appreciate us a little more. We promise to put a little effort into doing the same.

It's ok, I don't like guns either. I was raised around them, my husband has them, the boys go shooting...good for them.

Although that Hello Kitty AR-15. Almost makes me like Hello Kitty! :D

So far we've been lucky and haven't felt threatened on the trail. I did trip over a homeless man sleeping while night caching once. We were with a large group. I'm pretty sure we scared him more than he scared us!

Edited by LostinReno
Link to comment

eek you Americans scare me :)

 

I had the gun chat once with a taxi driver in Miami, I was telling him how scared I am of them and could never touch one, and he calmly leaned over and opened his glove compartment and there was a HUGE hand gun.

 

I screamed like a girl while he nearly wet himself laughing.

 

I stuttered "is-is-is-is-is-is i-i-i-i-it loaded????" and he laughed and said "of course it is, what use would it be if it wasn't???"

 

Sometimes I'm glad I live in England ;)

 

I thought that violent crime was on the rise in the UK. I seem to remember reading an article recently regarding a fairly high ranking police official in London who moved rather then confront the urban youth who congregated in his neighborhood.

 

You do realize that the homicide rate in England now exceeds that in the US, right? http://www.sfu.ca/~mauser/papers/LondonTow...1Hom-EW.xls.pdf

 

You realize that your violent crime rate exceeds ours, right? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../01/ixhome.html

 

I understand you all are looking at banning knives now. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4581871.stm

 

In the meantime, the number of states in the US issuing concealed carry permits has skyrocketed over the past 20 years, and both our homicide and violent crime rates continue to drop. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-09-09-crime_x.htm

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict.htm

 

I'm very glad to live in America.

Link to comment

Wow this thread went a little off topic so i will try to head it back in the right direction. A good strong Pepper Spray sounds like a good alternative. I do own a Pistol but i live in Suffolk county on Long Island and the Carry laws here are confusing. I cant get anyone to explain to me if or when I can carry so I dont. (if any one here can clear that up for me let me know?) I do Hike upstate NY ALOT but I dont know if I can carry up there with my Suffolk county Pistol permit. Anyway...What kind of Pepper Spray is good? Do you wear it on your belt?

Link to comment

Have I ever been worried about my safety?

Hmm... I've hiked and geocached in some strange places, to be sure.

I think the things that scare me the most are black bears, and automobile drivers.

Well, there was the guy with the crossbow standing under the "No Hunting" sign, on the Appalachian Trail. (It was not hunting season either.) But I wasn't geocaching then.

We did a cache in a park where the FTF was chased by some unruly sorts. But we did it at noon on a Sunday afternoon. We went off into the woods, and sent six kids running scared. Hmm...

Did one cache where another cacher was mugged. But we did it at noon on a Sunday. Not dusk on a weekday.

Done a few with strange people wandering about looking for sex, or having sex.

Found condoms, and needles in the woods.

Walked around homeless campsites. DNFed the one with the rats larger than many dogs.

Found caches where others have found a butcher knife, or a gun, or narcotics.

But it's black bears and automobiles that worry me the most.

Would weapons have helped in any of these situations? Nope.

The solution is knowing where you are going, and go at a safe time. Watch out, and be careful.

Link to comment
Too scared that you couldn't even touch one?? Utter nonsense.

 

Not utter nonsense, Please be more careful with your words. There IS a condition where the mere handling or thought of handling lethal weaponry causes tremendous fear in people.

 

So what do you cut your meat with, do you touch a cricket bat? How about a walking stick, they make great cudgels. Anything can be pretty much used lethally when the intent is there. How about vehicles? Cars kill more humans than any other item, I suspect that you don't use a car. Your comments are only red herrings used to disguise an elitist mentality. I see that Great Britain is considering a ban on kitchen knives: now there is a knee-jerk reaction!

Edited by Seasoned Warrior
Link to comment

I believe he is referring to the ASP collapsible baton.

 

http://www.asp-net.com/batons.html

 

I still prefer my glock 23 (or my glock 20 when in the woods) though, why let them get close enough to where you would need a handheld weapon.

 

I have been lucky though, have had a CCW for almost 8 years and never once had to draw it on someone, and hope I never do. Its there just in case though.

 

No weapon though will make up for good common sense and knowing when to make a quit exit out of an uncomfortable situation.

Isn't a Glock 23 (or 20) a handheld weapon? :(:(:P:P:P:P:rolleyes:<_<

Link to comment

My question is have you ever found yourself in a dangerous or uncomfortable situation.

 

Yeah. While doing this cache my buddy and I got caught on these rocks in the rain.

 

ontherocks.jpg

 

Whether you're carrying a weapon or not, that's about as close to being in danger as a cacher is liable to get.

Good point.

 

The only caching injury in my group was caused by a slip on a rock. I've managed to catch my foot in some rocks and take a spill while my foot remained wedged. I'm surprised I only bruised my pride on one.

Link to comment

My question is have you ever found yourself in a dangerous or uncomfortable situation.

 

Yeah. While doing this cache my buddy and I got caught on these rocks in the rain.

 

ontherocks.jpg

 

Whether you're carrying a weapon or not, that's about as close to being in danger as a cacher is liable to get.

Good point.

 

The only caching injury in my group was caused by a slip on a rock. I've managed to catch my foot in some rocks and take a spill while my foot remained wedged. I'm surprised I only bruised my pride on one.

I took a very hard fall while walking swiftly downhill and suddenly loosing my footing on slickrock. I got a big bruise on my thigh that was the exact shape of the Palm in my pocket. Two weeks later I tore my ACL while playing Volleyball. I'm still wondering if that first fall weakened my ACL and then that when I made that sudden stop while playing Volleyball it just snapped. If you want to see something really freaky, try watching your own knee bend outwards (the complete wrong way) as you go to the ground... Edited by TrailGators
Link to comment

eek you Americans scare me :huh:

 

I had the gun chat once with a taxi driver in Miami, I was telling him how scared I am of them and could never touch one, and he calmly leaned over and opened his glove compartment and there was a HUGE hand gun.

 

I screamed like a girl while he nearly wet himself laughing.

 

I stuttered "is-is-is-is-is-is i-i-i-i-it loaded????" and he laughed and said "of course it is, what use would it be if it wasn't???"

 

Sometimes I'm glad I live in England B)

 

I find it amusing that you were more afraid of the firearm in the glove box than you were of a ride in an automobile. Take a guess at which one was more likely to hurt you on that trip?

 

If you're not worried about your safety while out and about, you should be. It just takes one time to make you a believer.

 

And remember, when seconds count, the police are just a few minutes away.

 

-Mark.

Link to comment

While doing a cache in a rural area (but still a populated area) I was traveling along a pathway that had a fairly steep dropoff to the left. As I returned from the cache there were three very large dogs below me who were snarling and barking (the snarling bothered me more than the barking to be sure) and lunging up trying to climb the embankment. I was not at all sure they weren't going to make it up to where I was. I started looking around for places to put my back against a rock and use my hiking stick as a weapon of defense. That was the first time I wished I had a gun along.

 

While doing some very rural caches with a friend we ended up an a back road in the hills. After a mile or so we passed a "house". It was a shack-like affair with more shacks for outbuildings and a HUGE dog in the road. The dog was snarling and lunging at the truck. We continued on a bit and passed a long line of dead cars - mostly mercedes and such - which had obviously been stripped and some of them burned. As we continued on a bit we decided NOT to search for the cache (it turns out we didn't need to go down that road but, instead, needed to do a long hike from another location) and, as we were jockying the truck to turn around I asked my friend if he had his .40 with him. He leaned across into the back seat of the truck and dug around and pulled out his pistol. We were both concerned about not only the dog, but also the folks who owned the dog. Anybody who lived where all of those obviously stolen vehicles were wasn't somene we wanted to "visit" with. It was also quite likely that the person was operating a meth lab as well. I don't own a handgun but, at that moment, I was glad my friend did.

 

Other than being near cliffs, coming across rattlesnakes, or other natural dangers, those were the only two times I really felt unsafe caching.

Link to comment

I vaguely remember hearing about a Young lady who was Hiking the Appalachian Trail system a few months back that had a bad encounter with a man in the woods. If I remember right I dont think it turned out well...

I think it would be ignorant to believe it could never happen to you...this is not directed to anyone in particular. I'm using "you" to mean any Geo-cacher

Edited by Andy73
Link to comment

eek you Americans scare me :huh:

 

I had the gun chat once with a taxi driver in Miami, I was telling him how scared I am of them and could never touch one, and he calmly leaned over and opened his glove compartment and there was a HUGE hand gun.

 

I screamed like a girl while he nearly wet himself laughing.

 

I stuttered "is-is-is-is-is-is i-i-i-i-it loaded????" and he laughed and said "of course it is, what use would it be if it wasn't???"

 

Sometimes I'm glad I live in England B)

 

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." ("General Introduction to Psychoanalysis," S. Freud)

 

From some internet research via Google:

In the two years following the 1997 handgun ban, the use of handguns in crime rose by 40 percent, and the upward trend has continued. From April to November 2001, the number of people robbed at gunpoint in London rose 53 percent.

 

Gun crime is just part of an increasingly lawless environment. From 1991 to 1995, crimes against the person in England’s inner cities increased 91 percent. And in the four years from 1997 to 2001, the rate of violent crime more than doubled. Your chances of being mugged in London are now six times greater than in New York. England’s rates of assault, robbery, and burglary are far higher than America’s, and 53 percent of English burglaries occur while occupants are at home, compared with 13 percent in the U.S., where burglars admit to fearing armed homeowners more than the police. In a United Nations study of crime in 18 developed nations published in July, England and Wales led the Western world’s crime league, with nearly 55 crimes per 100 people.

 

I've always understood that London is the home of the almighty beating. Folks I know who live there tell me that you may not be shot, but hoodlums will beat you within an inch of your life for whatever's in your pockets and leave you lying in a gutter, choking on your own blood.

 

DCC

Link to comment

It just occurred to me that we all cache in different areas. Therefore what is the norm in one area will most certainly not be in another. All we can do is try to be responsible for ourselves (but more importantly our families).

 

That just occurred to you? There are several web sites which list safest and most dangerous cities in America. Brick, NY (coincidently, I bought one of my kayaks at shop there) came in as the safest, and St. Louis the most dangerous. The risk of being a victim of a violent crime probably correlates fairly closely with the crime rate in which you're caching.

Link to comment

Last year I started a similar topic in the New England forum & basically had someone making fun of me. I'm female & have been caching alone more than I used to in the past. My corcern wasn't just about others action but about me sustaining an injury from a fall or slip since I have a metal rod in my back.

 

I obtained a restricted firearms license to carry pepper spray. The license is required in MA. I'm very careful about where I go or just how for I go into the woods or about being somewhere out of sight.

 

Myself & a few other ladies decided to create public bookmark lists of caches that we've done alone that meet certain criteria to help other people in picking caches they would feel safe at if alone.

 

The rest of the time I cache with other people.

Edited by wandering4cache
Link to comment

been in a bad situation? nope. not yet

 

although you may not want to get in my way when i got a gun.........or any weapon. ive shot air rifles, shotguns, machine gun(fake, in an army virtual facility) even a friggen musket! ive only used a handgun once, a six-shooter, didnt feel right to me. ive also thrown axes, cut a playing card cleanly in half doing that, throwing knives, bow and arrow, ive even tried my hand at using a whip!

 

 

 

 

did i mention im an Eagle Scout?

Link to comment

I wouldn't carry a gun if I KNEW that 1 in 4 bullets was likely to misfire let alone a taser with ONE shot.

 

One in four?? Jeez, what kind of ammo were you using? Iv'e got three pistols that I've run hundreds, maybe thousands, of rounds through and I can only remember a single mis-fire. Was it an English built bullet? :laughing:

Link to comment

I wouldn't carry a gun if I KNEW that 1 in 4 bullets was likely to misfire let alone a taser with ONE shot.

 

One in four?? Jeez, what kind of ammo were you using? Iv'e got three pistols that I've run hundreds, maybe thousands, of rounds through and I can only remember a single mis-fire. Was it an English built bullet? ;)

 

we like to give the victims a fighting chance :laughing:;)

Link to comment

I have never actually been scared while caching even with my toddler age kids but alot of times at home I get scared thinking about it.

 

I'm fairly skittish so I think me carrying a gun would be a BAD idea. I would probably end up shooting myself or one of the kids. I have considered getting some pepper spray though. I have found myself in some uncomfortable situations outside of geocaching.

 

Honestly, from watching so many ghost movies, I'm more scared of running into a ghost or monster in the woods than I am worried about a person.

 

I took karate for several years and I think I could still defend myself fairly well. I'm not sure about defending myself AND my kids. I plan to get them in self defense classes as soon as they are old enough. I've already taught my 4 year old to scream and kick for the groin if a strange man picks her up.

 

So for you guys that carry a knife... How big of a knife do you carry? Do you wear it on your belt? I've been a few places that a knife would have come in handy but I don't want to look butch.

Link to comment

I've never been in a really bad situation, and I almost always travel with at least one more person, but I still always carry my pepperspray with me! of course, I don't know how much good it does me in my pack.... :laughing:

 

Dont they make belt holsters for pepper spray...

Link to comment

Being aware of your surroundings is your best defense, as well as being alert.

I cache a lot in the woods by myself, and by nature, I always pay attention to detail... Did I notice another car or truck in the area, any fresh tracks by human or animal, noises, is it hunting season? A lot can go wrong if unprepared, and I always have a 6" hunting knife on my hip and an airhorn in my pocket.

Being a woman, I have to look like I'm not the "barbie" type, and am just bopping along listening to a mp3 player. I am a hunter and hunting camo is always what I wear. (at least a jacket at the least) I really dont think most men would mess with me if they saw me in the woods. But for the one that might... He'd better be prepared! :laughing:

Link to comment

eek you Americans scare me :laughing:

 

I had the gun chat once with a taxi driver in Miami, I was telling him how scared I am of them and could never touch one, and he calmly leaned over and opened his glove compartment and there was a HUGE hand gun.

 

I screamed like a girl while he nearly wet himself laughing.

 

I stuttered "is-is-is-is-is-is i-i-i-i-it loaded????" and he laughed and said "of course it is, what use would it be if it wasn't???"

 

Sometimes I'm glad I live in England ;)

 

I would contend that it is your unfamiliarity with guns is what scares you, not us Americans.

 

Understanding the hard facts of concealed weapon carry and then researching the history of why this right was written into our constitution in the first place will help you immensely in this regard.

 

Perhaps you might even consider the day when your country needs some real help and what country will proudly be there by your side faster than you would ever imagine they could be. What if we showed up to protect you with sticks?

 

Along this journey you may even learn to appreciate us a little more. We promise to put a little effort into doing the same.

 

It's amazing how much is forgotten in a matter of about 60-70 years....

Link to comment

Having cached in Florida in a lot of hidden away places I think the biggest scares have come from the element of surprise. All I pack is a nice Gerber knife and a hiking stick. Two days ago after work I was doing a solo mountain biking maintenance run 5 miles into a deep preserve. I was pedalling down an old trail with pines and palmettos on both sides when out of the silence, the area literally exploded with dozens of big wild hogs as they were rooting around just off the path. We scared the **** out of each other and luckily there was no collision as I had about 25 lbs of gear on my back. Have had that happen pretty often here. And when you're out in places like that alone and things like that happen, or you're trekking along and see big fresh panther tracks in the trail, it makes you wonder what the heck you are doing. But getting back is always a good feeling. I sometimes think that, even as foolish as this may sound, that element of danger is part of the fun of the adventure.

 

Oh yeah, and I lost that nice Gerber knife from it's sheath once while I was literally running out of a freshly rooted up and heavily populated hog area and could hear them pretty close by... and I had to back track about a 1/2 mile right into the same place to retrieve it.... ::sigh::

Link to comment

I have never actually been scared while caching even with my toddler age kids but alot of times at home I get scared thinking about it.

 

I'm fairly skittish so I think me carrying a gun would be a BAD idea. I would probably end up shooting myself or one of the kids. I have considered getting some pepper spray though. I have found myself in some uncomfortable situations outside of geocaching.

 

Honestly, from watching so many ghost movies, I'm more scared of running into a ghost or monster in the woods than I am worried about a person.

 

I took karate for several years and I think I could still defend myself fairly well. I'm not sure about defending myself AND my kids. I plan to get them in self defense classes as soon as they are old enough. I've already taught my 4 year old to scream and kick for the groin if a strange man picks her up.

 

So for you guys that carry a knife... How big of a knife do you carry? Do you wear it on your belt? I've been a few places that a knife would have come in handy but I don't want to look butch.

 

Hahahaha! Safety < fashion!

Link to comment

My story: I was going to tell you my story but I will just say YES, and as a 260lb (at the time), 6ft ex bouncer and combat shooter, open carry (trained and certified by the FBI) and concealed carry (trained and certified by the Federal Marshal) permit holder, I’m certainly glad all I needed in this large public park was a strong limb.

Being aware of your surrounding isn’t always enough and if you are traveling you may not know what is a bad area and what is not (criminals depend on this a lot)

My advice: BS or use humor or threat or reason or anything else you think will work to keep the situation from escalating but never, ever bluff. Never carry anything you have not practiced using and are not willing to use because instead of saving you, any weapon you carry for protection but are not actually willing to use, can get you seriously harmed. What you practice is most likely what you will do. Practice nothing and most likely that is what you will do.

Encountering danger is not exclusive to my neck of the woods nor exclusive to my country.

Link to comment

dadgum, I want that Hello Kitty AR-15!

 

I cache by myself, only because I haven't found a willing partner yet. It stinks, but I create a safe situation by caching in areas that are open and not in questionable locations. Granted, I know any location could be deemed dangerous, but I try to choose places that were recently visited, or are in such rural or high-traffic areas that it would be tough for someone to get away with a mugging/attack.

 

My brother has a CCW, and I have always thought about getting myself one. Though I don't even have my firearms cert/permit, so I guess I'd have to start there. :unsure:

 

I've never carried around any form of protection (pepper spray, ASP, taser) , including a multi-tool or knife. I've never felt the need to, really.

Link to comment

My story: I was going to tell you my story but I will just say YES, and as a 260lb (at the time), 6ft ex bouncer and combat shooter, open carry (trained and certified by the FBI) and concealed carry (trained and certified by the Federal Marshal) permit holder, I’m certainly glad all I needed in this large public park was a strong limb.

Being aware of your surrounding isn’t always enough and if you are traveling you may not know what is a bad area and what is not (criminals depend on this a lot)

My advice: BS or use humor or threat or reason or anything else you think will work to keep the situation from escalating but never, ever bluff. Never carry anything you have not practiced using and are not willing to use because instead of saving you, any weapon you carry for protection but are not actually willing to use, can get you seriously harmed. What you practice is most likely what you will do. Practice nothing and most likely that is what you will do.

Encountering danger is not exclusive to my neck of the woods nor exclusive to my country.

 

That right there is sound advice. You fight like you train. :unsure:

Link to comment

:)

CCW = cache collecting wand?

 

So far I am happy to report that I have not needed to inflict violence on anyone since I was in grade school. Why is it that "regular" people think they need to armed at all times?

 

I'll give you an example why: My husband sent an employee to a local grocery store to pick up some coffee. It was 10AM in the morning and not in a crummy neighborhood. He (the employee) was standing in line when an ARMED robber came into the store. As he was leaving, the police arrived and there was a shoot-out. The employee is a former marine, has a CCW, but was not carrying. Hmmm.... he sounds like a "regular" guy.

 

I am petite, 5'2". I'm taking karate and concentrate on self-defense techniques. I'm known in my dojo as the "takedown queen." I would never want to be in close enough to contact to have to take someone down, OR pull my weapon which I carrry at all times - caching or not. I train at least once a month on the range and I keep myself updated on the law. I do not put myself in dangerous situations either, just because I carry a gun. There are caches on my ignore list for just this reason. It's all about safety - not playing "cowboy" - although I think I'd make a pretty good cowgirl!

 

By the way - know where I can get a cache collecting wand? That sounds like something I could use! :)

Link to comment

Here in suburbia, we often find ourselves hunting the urban micro in their native environments. While there have been several occasions where we may come across seedy people, I was caching with a buddy in one city where the hide was in an alley way - well, just as we got out to make the grab, we found ourselves amidst several obvious gang bangers. Fortunately, we went fairly un noticed but none the less, I would have felt a lot better with my 92SBF to protect my 60CSx.

 

The problem here in the left coast is that if you're a good guy caught with a gun or any concealed weapon for that matter, you suddenly become the bad guy. Getting a CCW in this area is impossible unless you make serious financial contributions to the local government officials - under the table.

 

So much for the 2nd Amendment! :)

Link to comment

but never, ever bluff. Never carry anything you have not practiced using and are not willing to use because instead of saving you, any weapon you carry for protection but are not actually willing to use, can get you seriously harmed. What you practice is most likely what you will do. Practice nothing and most likely that is what you will do.

If you draw you better shoot. I am pretty sure it is illegal to just draw as a threat. And if you shoot, you shoot to kill. I am pretty sure that is the law (in my state).

Link to comment

ghurka.jpg

 

If you draw you better shoot.

 

:blink::D:):wacko::huh::)

 

Are we all Ghurkas that have vowed that our blade must taste blood when unsheathed? Where is the logic in that? The mere sound of a slide being racked, a hammer being cocked, or a rifle/shotgun action being racked can end a conflict without bloodshed. :unsure:

 

It's called visual deterrant. :blink:

 

I am pretty sure it is illegal to just draw as a threat.

 

It's illegal to brandish a firearm in anything other than a true threat situation. Pointing a gun to a guy who is attempting to mug or carjack you and NOT shooting is perfectly okay if you are licensed to carry or otherwise within the perameters or your state's gun laws.

 

I've pointed a gun at someone on two different occasions. One was a guy trying to open my car door at a stop sign. The other was a guy about to break into my car. In both cases I was justified and in both cases the situation ended immediately WITHOUT shooting.

 

If I'm ever FORCED to shoot someone they will be soooo freakin' close to me that I won't miss. The entry wound will be in the front of their body as they advance on me and their clothes will probably catch fire from the muzzle blast due to proximity while all the time I'm yelling "STOP!!!" at the top of my lungs. Unless THEY have a gun at which point I'd drop 'em the instant I saw it and was certain they had a gun.

 

And if you shoot, you shoot to kill. I am pretty sure that is the law (in my state).

 

NO ONE who has been trained shoots to KILL or to wound. You shoot AT center of mass and you shoot to STOP a threat. Intent to kill opens a HUGE can of worms. Grand juries don't cotton to the word kill. :huh:

 

Frankly, if you're NOT PREPARED for the outcome of a justified shooting/stabbing/asp-ing/what-the-heck-ever you have no business even carrying a weapon. Carry pepper spray and RUNNNNNN.

 

The average justified killing costs the defendant between $12K and $30k to be represented before a grand jury. The little clause in the law that says "civil penalties not withstanding" averages out to another $75k+ depending on whether you win or lose when/if the criminal's family decides to sue you. That's just an average for my state. Your mileage may vary.

 

I doubt there'd be so many cowboy attitudes if folks took the time to train and prepare properly for the moment when they might be in a shootin' match. I have trained for 20 years and I'm still not ready enough for what comes after. I hope I never hafta be. :D

Edited by Snoogans
Link to comment

eek you Americans scare me :blink:

Sometimes I'm glad I live in England :huh:

 

Actualy statistics show, that per capita the UK ranks 6th in leading the world on crime, the US follows at 8th, but both places are becoming more and more dangerous. I'm just glad I can protect myself in the US, the UK has taken away these rights, now only the bad guys have the guns.

 

eek, you Brits scare me :unsure:

 

Crime Statistics > Total crimes (per capita) (most recent) by country

 

Showing latest available data.

Rank Countries Amount (top to bottom)

#1 Dominica: 113.822 per 1,000 people

#2 New Zealand: 105.881 per 1,000 people

#3 Finland: 101.526 per 1,000 people

#4 Denmark: 92.8277 per 1,000 people

#5 Chile: 88.226 per 1,000 people

#6 United Kingdom: 85.5517 per 1,000 people

#7 Montserrat: 80.3982 per 1,000 people

#8 United States: 80.0645 per 1,000 people

#9 Netherlands: 79.5779 per 1,000 people

#10 South Africa: 77.1862 per 1,000 people

#11 Germany: 75.9996 per 1,000 people

#12 Canada: 75.4921 per 1,000 people

#13 Norway: 71.8639 per 1,000 people

#14 France: 62.1843 per 1,000 people

#15 Seychelles: 52.9265 per 1,000 people

#16 Hungary: 44.9763 per 1,000 people

#17 Estonia: 43.3601 per 1,000 people

#18 Czech Republic: 38.2257 per 1,000 people

#19 Italy: 37.9633 per 1,000 people

#20 Switzerland: 36.1864 per 1,000 people

#21 Portugal: 34.3833 per 1,000 people

#22 Slovenia: 33.6236 per 1,000 people

#23 Poland: 32.8573 per 1,000 people

#24 Korea, South: 31.7267 per 1,000 people

#25 Mauritius: 29.1982 per 1,000 people

Edited by Hobo2
Link to comment

I browse the forums every day but I have never posted before. I had a interesting experience at a cache here in South Dakota. The cache is sort of famous around here for being in an interesting location and because it can be hard. Walk the Plank - GCVVJ3. I managed to find it but it was frozen in place. My wife decided not to walk the plank so she was 300 or so feet away. As I was trying to get the cache loose a guy was walking on the river (it was frozen) every once in a while I heard a loud POP! I wasn't sure what it was but I was really interested in getting the cache loose. He was getting closer so I decided to watch him. This guy was walking along and then would randomly stop and raise a handgun and fire off a few rounds. I watched him do this several times before I felt that I might never walk away from the cache. I decided if he were going to shoot me, that running wouldn't help because he was near the plank so I kept trying. After a while he just walked by and asked if I was having luck ice fishing. I said that I wasn't and he went on his way randomly shooting things.

 

It is only South Dakota after all...

Link to comment

ghurka.jpg

 

If you draw you better shoot.

 

:ph34r::):ph34r::ph34r::ph34r::ph34r:

 

Are we all Ghurkas that have vowed that our blade must taste blood when unsheathed? Where is the logic in that? The mere sound of a slide being racked, a hammer being cocked, or a rifle/shotgun action being racked can end a conflict without bloodshed. :)

 

It's called visual deterrant. B)

 

I am pretty sure it is illegal to just draw as a threat.

 

It's illegal to brandish a firearm in anything other than a true threat situation. Pointing a gun to a guy who is attempting to mug or carjack you and NOT shooting is perfectly okay if you are licensed to carry or otherwise within the perameters or your state's gun laws.

 

I've pointed a gun at someone on two different occasions. One was a guy trying to open my car door at a stop sign. The other was a guy about to break into my car. In both cases I was justified and in both cases the situation ended immediately WITHOUT shooting.

 

If I'm ever FORCED to shoot someone they will be soooo freakin' close to me that I won't miss. The entry wound will be in the front of their body as they advance on me and their clothes will probably catch fire from the muzzle blast due to proximity while all the time I'm yelling "STOP!!!" at the top of my lungs. Unless THEY have a gun at which point I'd drop 'em the instant I saw it and was certain they had a gun.

 

And if you shoot, you shoot to kill. I am pretty sure that is the law (in my state).

 

NO ONE who has been trained shoots to KILL or to wound. You shoot AT center of mass and you shoot to STOP a threat. Intent to kill opens a HUGE can of worms. Grand juries don't cotton to the word kill. :)

 

Frankly, if you're NOT PREPARED for the outcome of a justified shooting/stabbing/asp-ing/what-the-heck-ever you have no business even carrying a weapon. Carry pepper spray and RUNNNNNN.

 

The average justified killing costs the defendant between $12K and $30k to be represented before a grand jury. The little clause in the law that says "civil penalties not withstanding" averages out to another $75k+ depending on whether you win or lose when/if the criminal's family decides to sue you. That's just an average for my state. Your mileage may vary.

 

I doubt there'd be so many cowboy attitudes if folks took the time to train and prepare properly for the moment when they might be in a shootin' match. I have trained for 20 years and I'm still not ready enough for what comes after. I hope I never hafta be. :D

 

Well said. Everyone should be aware of the results of shooting someone whether you are in the right or not.

 

-Mark.

Link to comment

I had a guy pull a shotgun on me once. Thats why Im afraid to hunt caches in the woods at night. He thought I was a drug dealer.

 

You must have done exactly what he told you because you are still here able to write about it. ;)

Of course I did, I can understand why he was freaked out, the place has had some bad things happen there.

Link to comment

Where I live we do not have "large game" like bears to worry about. Snakes are there but with respect to the species, snakes will give you plenty of warning before attacking. Coyotes, sure, but just like most wildlife, if you don't trap it, the critter would rather run away than fight.

 

I was raised around guns. I have no problem with guns. I do not carry a gun when I cache.

 

As for being a realist: If I have my GPS in hand, leash for the cache hound in the other, and two children in tow... where is the knife going to be? the gun? the pepper spray? ... its going to be in a POCKET of some sort... and what good is that if I'm jumped? All it really does is give a good percentage change the item that was supposed to protect me is now in the hands of someone who would rather kill me. Where do you carry your gun when you cache? Where is your knife? Seems you would be a perceived threat if you carried it in the one place that guaranteed it to actually help you: your hand. But... caching with gun or knife in hand isn't very logical... is it? Not all attacks are "seen" - some can be a blindside attack... dunno, seems I'm more of a realist to know I can't walk around with a gun in my hand while caching. I also know I can't live my life in fear. What kind of life is that?

 

If its robbers - they can have my GPS and cell phone. I don't care. Its just a GPS and cell phone.

 

BUT, I have never been in this situation. Again, it comes down to assessment of your surrounding environment. I don't care if the arrow is pointing down a long, dark and damp alley. The hider can kiss my arse - I'm not going down there.

 

I cache in the late morning, early afternoons and I go to areas where there is public: on foot or in cars. I do not walk around acting as if I'm going to get attacked at any moment. I pay attention to where I am and who and what is around me. I don't shut the world out. Listen to your surroundings. If you are caching in the woods... I have yet to find one person who can travel silently on dried leaves and twigs. If so... boy, they are good. They can have my GPS anyway!

 

I think when I'm out, I fear more about falling down and twisting my ankle than I do being attacked. It is possible I could be attacked but I'm not going to walk around with that fear 100% of the time.

Link to comment

Yep. Scared as hell driving back on the 101 freeway after finding seven caches out in the woods.

 

Yeah, I carry. Carry 3 liters of water, or a filter when wild water is around. Far and away the most dangerous situation I've encountered while caching was running out of water on a hot day with an hour left to get back to the car.

 

Edward

Link to comment

If you are trained and you double tap at the body mass you are most likely going to kill. I did not mean that you empty trying to take the person out. Stopping them is the goal.

 

I just so happens that your vital areas are clustered around your center of mass. Shooting AT center of mass does not imply intent to kill even though that can be the result. As you say, stopping them is the goal. It's not so much what you say to a grand jury in the aftermath of a shooting so much as how you phrase it.

 

Now, bullets do interesting things inside the human body. If you understand the fluid dynamics of the human body and what can happen when a bullet enters it it's easier to understand.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Followers 4
×
×
  • Create New...