Should a bird box be used as a cache in a Country Park?

[+Team NarrowBoat]

Should a bird box be used as a place to hide a cache in a Country Park that has protected areas for nestting birds and bird boxes in its trees ? ?

[+British Invasion]

no!

[SlytherinAlex]

Nope

[+HazelS]

Of course you'd need permission from the Countryside Rangers, and they'd never allow it.

[+Birdman-of-liskatraz]

Adds the obvious answer - No, as a bird may nest on top of the cache in the box.

[+drsolly]

I did a cache recently, which was hidden in a fake bird box. The giveaway was that there was actually no way for the bird to get in or out (and it was at a very low level). And I remember another fake bird box, with a similar giveaway

[Deceangi]

Adds the obvious answer - No, as a bird may nest on top of the cache in the box.

 

Just to clarify one point, the bird box as I hope all such which are used to hide a cache. Is a false one with no access hole of any sort for birds [rodents and woodlice are a different matter]. So there is no risk of any bird nesting on top of the container.

 

If anyone comes across any hide which they feel is inappropriate, please post a SBA log to it. Which will bring it to the attention of the Reviewers, who will review each case on it's merits.

 

Please provide as much information as possible, and not just something like "container is in a bird box". Describe the container and location if possible with photographs and the reason why it is inappropriate. If you do not wish to post a public SBA log please contact one of us directly with the above requested information.

[+Team Sieni]

I did a cache recently, which was hidden in a fake bird box.

 

Did you get fake birds nesting in it?

[+FantasticCat]

I've done a cache with a fake bird in a tree (the cache I mean, rather than having done GCX5D6 with a cross-dresser ). Also done one in a bird box in someone's drive (sure many people know this one!). Have seen them used many times as a stage in a multi or as a clue (they are normally numbered).

[+purple_pineapple]

One of ours is a birdbox. Its ESSENTIAL that the hole is blocked off (which ours is). If thats the case, I can't see a problem, with the proviso that there aren't hundreds of bird boxes in the area, encouraging cachers to tamper with real ones...

[+sssss]

as birds cant nest in it AND it has permission to be there then i do not see any problem with the cache

[+kewfriend]

All 'fake' containers have problems associated with them .

 

The setter's coordinates need to be 'spot on' otherwise the the geocacher will be tempted to explore 'non-fake' similar local containers with the potential disruption involved. The setter (without giving too much away) needs to allude to the 'fake' nature of the container or have the container available in such a way that there can be no reasonable cause for doubt. The geocacher needs to behave completely responsibly and not explore containers that 'may' be in the correct area but are quite obviosuly 'kosher' and not geo-containers.

 

As ever its swings and roundabouts.

 

I for instance have a container that looks at first glance to be a 'railing' but on closer inspection couldn't conceivably be a 'railing'. I'd expect the same of a bird box: and not having a bird entrance is a good start.

[+HazelS]

Adds the obvious answer - No, as a bird may nest on top of the cache in the box.

 

Just to clarify one point, the bird box as I hope all such which are used to hide a cache. Is a false one with no access hole of any sort for birds [rodents and woodlice are a different matter]. So there is no risk of any bird nesting on top of the container.

 

If anyone comes across any hide which they feel is inappropriate, please post a SBA log to it. Which will bring it to the attention of the Reviewers, who will review each case on it's merits.

 

Please provide as much information as possible, and not just something like "container is in a bird box". Describe the container and location if possible with photographs and the reason why it is inappropriate. If you do not wish to post a public SBA log please contact one of us directly with the above requested information.

 

Ahhhh

 

That changes EVERYTHING!!!

 

Yes yes yes yes yes it should be allowed!!!

 

I love these caches and indeed, those similar have been among some of my favourite caches!!

 

Sounds like someone has a personal axe to grind and is being particularly nasty by bringing it up in here, instead of contacting reviewers and the cacher in question.... tut tut tut... there are only 4 people in the UK who are the cache police, and I'm afraid Deegeake isn't one of them!

[+The HERB5]

I did a cache recently, which was hidden in a fake bird box.

 

Did you get fake birds nesting in it?

 

The one I found had fake eggs. Still hasn't hatched

[+Pieman]

I've got 2 caches where bird boxes feature but in both wildlife can't get inside. I think one of our esteemed reviewers has one too that has a blocked hole . There's one big clue that highlights the difference between a bird box cache and a real bird box (apart from the blocked entrance)- real bird boxes are placed so only birds and not humans can reach them!

Edited March 4, 2008 by Pieman

[+jerryo]

I had a cache where a clue was in a bird box near a road and not in a conservation area. Inside the box is a metal retractable tape measure, which itself is sealed inside a plastic box inside the bird box. There is no access to humans from outside the box and they can’t reach it anyway as it’s well high, but the bird hole is still there . The idea is to withdraw the tape from the bottom using a magnet on a long stick and read coordinates off the measure . The box has been occupied for two years by blue tits and they are quite happy*. The worst that happens to them if that there is the occasional dull thud nearby as the tape measure retracts harmlessly next to them . I bet this is the only bird box in three mile radius but I suppose the cache police* won’t like that one either.

*No I can’t prove I speak blue-tit, officer.

[+Orchards Finest]

Please be aware that not all bird boxes are of the blue tit variety where there is a very obvious hole on the front. Treecreeper boxes have a hole on the side where the box meets the tree. There may also be dormouse boxes present. These have the entrance at the back and so it will appear to be a box with no entrance. See here for examples. Bat boxes are another example where the entrance is not obvious.

[+L8HNB]

"in a Country Park that has protected areas for nestting birds"

 

Don't forget that birds also nest on the ground as well as at various levels in trees, so access could be a problem.

 

Bats also use special boxes that are provided by Wildlife Trusts etc. They have no obvious hole in the front, as a Blue Tit Box, there's usually a slot underneath. There are other types of boxes that have rearward facing holes, for Nuthatches, if I remember correctly.

 

The key is in the original post though - Permission would have to be obtained from the ranger or whoever.

 

Common sense really!

[+Malpas Wanderer]

 

Sounds like someone has a personal axe to grind and is being particularly nasty by bringing it up in here, instead of contacting reviewers and the cacher in question.... tut tut tut... there are only 4 people in the UK who are the cache police, and I'm afraid Deegeake isn't one of them!

 

Even if there is a personal axe to grind there is no reason why the topic should not be raised here.

 

It alerts all readers to the idiocy that takes place within geocaching.

 

The overall decision should be with the landowner ranger etc. whom has granted permission for the cache.

 

The whole thread seems pivoted around permission or common sense with the placement.

 

I know many of us don't have explicit permission for many of our caches, perhaps others are put off such as I was by a long drawn out process and only achieving permission on a small area, only later to see caches published on an area declined to your self knowing the placer has sought no permission.

 

I have had two such caches archived by a reviewer where I know the landower refused permission, mainly as the coordinates were so far out that even very experienced cachers did not find them within three visits.

Yet within the last fourteen days another cache has been placed again obviously without any permission being sought. Although the original permission was set up and recorded on the GAGB Landowner Agreements Database as I expected to get a large area, none of the placers seem to view this and notice said land owner has only granted permission on a small area.

 

As to "cache police" the four reviewers can not be expected to detect all infringements, have you tried reading multiple cache pages a day and fully understood them? We in effect are all cache police.

 

The permission issue will continue for a long time to come, and wont be eased until there is a simple way to identify all land ownership.

[+Bear and Ragged]

All 'fake' containers have problems associated with them .

 

The setter's coordinates need to be 'spot on' otherwise the the geocacher will be tempted to explore 'non-fake' similar local containers with the potential disruption involved. The setter (without giving too much away) needs to allude to the 'fake' nature of the container or have the container available in such a way that there can be no reasonable cause for doubt. The geocacher needs to behave completely responsibly and not explore containers that 'may' be in the correct area but are quite obviosuly 'kosher' and not geo-containers.

 

As ever its swings and roundabouts.

 

I for instance have a container that looks at first glance to be a 'railing' but on closer inspection couldn't conceivably be a 'railing'. I'd expect the same of a bird box: and not having a bird entrance is a good start.

 

Agree.

 

But.

Some 'birdboxes' don't have holes in the front -because they are Batboxes.

Batboxes have a slot along the back of the base.

 

So long as the cache box isn't in an area with other boxes, and has permission...

 

G

[+HazelS]

As to "cache police" the four reviewers can not be expected to detect all infringements, have you tried reading multiple cache pages a day and fully understood them? We in effect are all cache police.

 

 

My post was meant very tongue in cheek...... I am not suggesting that our reviewers do not do a good enough job.

[+jerryo]

As to "cache police" the four reviewers can not be expected to detect all infringements, have you tried reading multiple cache pages a day and fully understood them?

My own reference to cache police alluded not to our esteemed reviewers. The term "cache police", I thought, referred only to those geocachers who, er, know best, or think they do, rather than the four people who review caches.

 

We in effect are all cache police.

... and some people really get off on the job too

[+Team Sieni]

The one I found had fake eggs. Still hasn't hatched

Did you see any fake twitchers, gazing at the box through fake binocs?

[+Simply Paul]

[+maxkim]

I had a cache where a clue was in a bird box near a road and not in a conservation area. Inside the box is a metal retractable tape measure, which itself is sealed inside a plastic box inside the bird box. There is no access to humans from outside the box and they can’t reach it anyway as it’s well high, but the bird hole is still there . The idea is to withdraw the tape from the bottom using a magnet on a long stick and read coordinates off the measure . The box has been occupied for two years by blue tits and they are quite happy*. The worst that happens to them if that there is the occasional dull thud nearby as the tape measure retracts harmlessly next to them . I bet this is the only bird box in three mile radius but I suppose the cache police* won’t like that one either.

*No I can’t prove I speak blue-tit, officer.

What a good idea... hmmmm thinks....

[+Us 4 and Jess]

I had a cache where a clue was in a bird box near a road and not in a conservation area. Inside the box is a metal retractable tape measure, which itself is sealed inside a plastic box inside the bird box. There is no access to humans from outside the box and they can’t reach it anyway as it’s well high, but the bird hole is still there . The idea is to withdraw the tape from the bottom using a magnet on a long stick and read coordinates off the measure . The box has been occupied for two years by blue tits and they are quite happy*. The worst that happens to them if that there is the occasional dull thud nearby as the tape measure retracts harmlessly next to them . I bet this is the only bird box in three mile radius but I suppose the cache police* won’t like that one either.

*No I can’t prove I speak blue-tit, officer.

 

I was going to mention your cache J, but you beat me to it, I remember you telling us it was a real bird box and its great it has been used 2 years running now

 

A good cache it is too, so now its a cache and a new home for the birds, thats putting stuff back into the environment, what caching is about, when you do what you have to do to get the co-ords for the next part of the cache I am sure it will not disturb the occupants too much.

 

M

[+Team NarrowBoat]

You have still got to get too close to the bird box to see even if it's fake!!

 

I did a cache recently, which was hidden in a fake bird box. The giveaway was that there was actually no way for the bird to get in or out (and it was at a very low level). And I remember another fake bird box, with a similar giveaway

[+Team NarrowBoat]

I up loaded the photos to be looked at by the U.K. team on one of my archived caches and was told it was being looked in too. But I was asked to remove them and did so but please have a look; GC****:.

 

Adds the obvious answer - No, as a bird may nest on top of the cache in the box.

 

Just to clarify one point, the bird box as I hope all such which are used to hide a cache. Is a false one with no access hole of any sort for birds [rodents and woodlice are a different matter]. So there is no risk of any bird nesting on top of the container.

 

If anyone comes across any hide which they feel is inappropriate, please post a SBA log to it. Which will bring it to the attention of the Reviewers, who will review each case on it's merits.

 

Please provide as much information as possible, and not just something like "container is in a bird box". Describe the container and location if possible with photographs and the reason why it is inappropriate. If you do not wish to post a public SBA log please contact one of us directly with the above requested information.

 

Edit: Cache number removed by Lactodorum to prevent disclosure of confidential information

Edited March 5, 2008 by Lactodorum

[+MeerRescue]

...but fake looking enough for you to get close enough, open it and then to take a photo and then publish it ?.

 

To save everyone else any concern..... 4' off the ground, sealed, very good co-ords, good clue.

 

Oh, and to save Deegeake any more sleepless nights...

 

i) I have permission

 

ii) I occasionally work there in an official ' animal expert' capacity

 

iii) I am an offical keyholder for the premises.

 

Ta muchly

 

MeerRescue

[+currykev]

I did a cache recently, which was hidden in a fake bird box.

 

Did you get fake birds nesting in it?

 

Don't laugh but...I actually have a plastic duck in my kitchen that is awaiting a good spot to act as a cache.

[+Renegade Knight]

I have one in a zoo that has several bird houses that are active. It's there with permisson and the zoo helped install it.

 

At first blush "no" sounds reasonable. but the reality is that there is a way. Not every time, but some times.

[+Stuey]

To save everyone else any concern..... 4' off the ground, sealed, very good co-ords, good clue.

 

I wonder if a Red Jeep would fit in it?

[Mrs Red]

It has been very interesting reading comments made about bird boxes, has anyone considered that birds cant read, children will think that it is ok to disturb boxes, and if they do put their hands in and find a wasp nest instead who’s responsible, it was very refreshing to find something that all the family could do together, that was affordable to all, taught children about the countryside, and to be aware of their surroundings, and to respect the places they visited i.e. replace things as they find them. I was very excited to hear about the area as conservation and the introduction of a safe environment for wildlife is of importance to me, and I will be visiting with my grandchildren, what I will not be doing is disturbing any nest boxes even if they are fake, we are now approaching the breeding season for many species of wildlife, I am the visitor not the resident and will respect their home as I would any other home.

 

Edited to remove a potential spoler (Lactodorum)

Edited March 13, 2008 by Lactodorum

[Lactodorum]

Hello Mrs Red, I see that you registered last week and have yet to actually do any geocaching. Once you have done so and once you have read some more of the forums I think you will discover just how responsible Geocachers tend to be. I hope you find the area lives up to your expectations. Thank you for your first post.

 

Lactodorum

UK Forum moderator

Edited March 13, 2008 by Lactodorum

[+currykev]

Currykev had too much wine last night so has retracted this comment.

Edited March 14, 2008 by currykev

[+Bear and Ragged]

Snipped (a lot!) but...

 

if they do put their hands in and find a wasp nest instead

 

taught children about the countryside, and to be aware of their surroundings,

 

Wasps and bees can nest anywhere... We did a cache last summer, and a farmer/local had put a notice on the footpath gate to warn of a wasps nest in the hedge along the footpath.

 

There were a couple of stragglers buzzing around the tree the cache was hidden in.

They could well have made their home in that tree...

 

Look before you leap.

Caching is about using your eyes, don't just poke your hand in blindly, think first.

Be prepared to walk away without finding the cache.

 

And welcome to caching and the forums!

Edited March 13, 2008 by KandG

[+Cushie Butterfield]

Should a bird box be used as a place to hide a cache in a Country Park that has protected areas for nestting birds and bird boxes in its trees ? ?

Don't be ridiculous!..hide the b***y thing elsewhere!

 

Oh for heaven's sake.

 

As previously stated in the thread, the box in question isn't a bird box. It has no holes in it. It's 4' off the ground and only just into the tree, it's so obvious it isn't a real one, it's the easiest cache in the series in question (which is brilliant)

 

There is a protected section of the park put aside for nesting birds which is closed to the public during the season. The cache is nowhere near that area.

 

It's been approved by the park owners who may just know a little bit about birds and placed with their permission.

 

Nobody is being forced to go and look for it, there are plenty of other caches out there. I know we have only been geocaching since October and we are quite new, out of our meagre 50+ this series was the best caching day out we have had so far. If all of the caches were as good as these and placed with as much consideration it would guarantee a brilliant day out every time we went caching.

[+Pharisee]

I once had a small cache hidden in a hole in a wall.... No, not a dry stone wall but an old Beeching'd railway bridge. It was disabled for most of one summer and subsequently moved after a small bird decided to build it's nest right on top of my cache box.

[+Nochipra]

We recently did one in the area that was a fake bird box. It was pretty cool. It took us forever in the woods to find it. We never thought to look up, lol.

[+currykev]

Currykev was hurry Kev with his comments..see below.Apologies.

Edited March 14, 2008 by currykev

[+MooToo]

Should a bird box be used as a place to hide a cache in a Country Park that has protected areas for nestting birds and bird boxes in its trees ? ?

Forgive me but your 1st post states it IS a bird box.

I'd recommend a fake bird would make a better cache!

If you have permission from the relevant authorities then...

Unless your feeling somewhat morally guilty!

I built the said "Birdbox"Which in fact was built as a cache hide and disguised as a bird box therefore is it is first and foremost a cache hide box.Myself and MeerRescue consulted the park warden who is more than happy with afore mentioned ,there is no moral guilt here,its a great fun hide that takes us away from the usual plastic pot covered with sticks!!

[+Lost in Space]

Forget about Bird Boxes, what about gravestones?

 

One of the best caches I ever did was a fake gravestone in a cemetery............

 

And no humans, past, present, or future were affected by it. In fact, visitors were made more aware of their surroundings.

[+mongoose39uk]

Should a bird box be used as a place to hide a cache in a Country Park that has protected areas for nestting birds and bird boxes in its trees ? ?

Forgive me but your 1st post states it IS a bird box.

I'd recommend a fake bird would make a better cache!

If you have permission from the relevant authorities then...

Unless your feeling somewhat morally guilty!

 

perhaps it would help if you read the thread?

[markandlynn]

Forget about Bird Boxes, what about gravestones?

 

One of the best caches I ever did was a fake gravestone in a cemetery............

 

And no humans, past, present, or future were affected by it. In fact, visitors were made more aware of their surroundings.

This one ?

 

 

NB its an American one before anyone accuses me of posting spoilers.

[+Lost in Space]

 

This one ?

 

 

Nope. The one I am thinking about was in Hertfordshire.

[+Simply Paul]

And a very fine cache The Little Cemetery Safari by sparafucile (GCHPYY) was.

 

On topic, I've done a couple of bird-box-esque caches and they were both fine. Neither was a real box with access that could be used by bat, bird or bee and neither was hidden close to anything else that could be mistaken for the hide. Good co-ords, a clear clue and several hundred feet from a real bird box *that could be reached by a cacher- most are way up in trees!* are all that a responsible cacher needs to do to ensure their BB hide is a sensible one. That's on top of the usual permissions of course. If any cacher has a concern about a specific cache hide they should bring it up with reviewers by email or SBA log...

 

It seems to me this particular cache has been hidden following all the rules and the hider has defended their reasoning for using such a hide in the park very well. Long live creative containers and cunning hides!

[+currykev]

Should a bird box be used as a place to hide a cache in a Country Park that has protected areas for nestting birds and bird boxes in its trees ? ?

Forgive me but your 1st post states it IS a bird box.

I'd recommend a fake bird would make a better cache!

If you have permission from the relevant authorities then...

Unless your feeling somewhat morally guilty!

 

perhaps it would help if you read the thread?

Currykev can only agree and I apologise to MooToo too.