Hello

[Mtn.Bike.Rider]

My name is Billy, and I am a new member. I was going over the list of caches in my area and most of them are listed as being premium members only caches. I thought that I read in the rules/guidelines that any cache that requires the finder to pay a fee in order to find were considered to be commercial caches. Doesn’t the paying of a fee to the web site in order to find the cache make it a commercial cache?

[+briansnat]

Not according to the guidelines.

[Mtn.Bike.Rider]

When I read the guidelines it clearly says that paying a fee makes a cache a commercial cache. So how is it not a commercial cache to pay a fee to the web site? I ask only because I am disabled and am living on a fixed income.

 

Right now I don’t have a GPS because I am saving up for it, but if I have to pay a fee to the web site in order to go hunt for the caches that are the closet to my home then in the long run it just will not be worth it.

 

And most of the caches within a short distance from my home are listed as being premium member only caches. What is a person who is on a fixed or limited income suppose to do?

[+StarBrand]

Pay the $3 fee to be a premium member for just 1 short month and go out and find and log all of those Premium member caches nearby. Repeat that 1 time per year to catch them all up. Meanwhile get out and find all of the non-PM caches in your area.

[Mtn.Bike.Rider]

Pay the $3 fee to be a premium member for just 1 short month and go out and find and log all of those Premium member caches nearby. Repeat that 1 time per year to catch them all up. Meanwhile get out and find all of the non-PM caches in your area.

 

Sadly, that isn’t an option. It’s going to take me a while as it is to scrimp and save just to get the least expensive GPS that I can find. As my disability makes it impossible for me to work, also I am limited in the distance that I can travel. And as I said most of the caches that I can get to easily are marked as premium members only type caches. There are maybe a half dozen that aren’t. I am sure that I am not the only one who wants to try geocaching that is in the same boat that I am.

 

When I was told about this hobby I was under the impression that it was something that is or was free for everyone, the cost of a GPS aside. As I said if I have to pay a fee to go and find a cache then sadly in the long run it isn’t going to be worth it to me.

[+StarBrand]

************arrg************

(((Computer is whacky today)))

 

If $3 for a 1 time month is too much then perhaps Geocaching is not the right hobby for you. PM caches is a perk for Premium members to use. It adds no addtional incremental Revenue to Groundspeak for you to seek them.

Edited March 3, 2008 by StarBrand

[+PyrateWench]

I live in the same county as you, work in St. Pete as well... There's TONS of caches within 15 miles that are easy to get to and aren't premium member caches... I understand your frustrations - but I also think you know the difference between commercial cache and premium members. There's other sites that do caching as well if you are against the member deal.... Also, if you're on a fixed income and you're so concerned about $3 a month (Groundspeak is paying for you to use these forums right now, and their website and their bandwith and everything else...) - I would suggest saving the $100 for a GPS and find a hobby more suitable to your needs.

But there really are plenty of caches you can do without being a premium member.

[+briansnat]

When I read the guidelines it clearly says that paying a fee makes a cache a commercial cache. So how is it not a commercial cache to pay a fee to the web site?

 

The difference is that you are paying the fee to THIS web site. The guideline regarding commercials caches is to keep caches from promoting other businesses through this website. This website is a business. They make the rules and the rules don't have to apply to them.

 

I did a search of your area and you do indeed have an awful lot of member only caches there. In most places they are pretty rare. It seems to be all the work of one person, so I guess you'll just have to ignore caches placed by that person. Even if you eliminate the MOCs there are still hundreds for you to find fairly close to home.

[+DaFunkyFrogs]

OR, you could try meeting up with other cachers in your area (easy to do in the regional forums) and see if you can cache with them when they go out for member only caches. This way you could also start caching before you get your GPSr, as other cachers will already have them.

[+TrailGators]

Right now I don't have a GPS because I am saving up for it, but if I have to pay a fee to the web site in order to go hunt for the caches that are the closet to my home then in the long run it just will not be worth it.

A GPS is a lot more than 3 bucks so it will be more than 3 bucks to find a handful PMOC caches around your house (if that is all you are planning to find). However, if you are planning on finding more than just those caches, then you are making a wise investment!

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Pay the $3 fee to be a premium member for just 1 short month and go out and find and log all of those Premium member caches nearby. Repeat that 1 time per year to catch them all up. Meanwhile get out and find all of the non-PM caches in your area.

 

Sadly, that isn’t an option. It’s going to take me a while as it is to scrimp and save just to get the least expensive GPS that I can find. As my disability makes it impossible for me to work, also I am limited in the distance that I can travel. And as I said most of the caches that I can get to easily are marked as premium members only type caches. There are maybe a half dozen that aren’t. I am sure that I am not the only one who wants to try geocaching that is in the same boat that I am.

 

When I was told about this hobby I was under the impression that it was something that is or was free for everyone, the cost of a GPS aside. As I said if I have to pay a fee to go and find a cache then sadly in the long run it isn’t going to be worth it to me.

 

If you shop around I suspect that you'll be to find a GPS for less than a mountain bike.

[Mtn.Bike.Rider]

I live in the same county as you, work in St. Pete as well... There’s TONS of caches within 15 miles that are easy to get to and aren’t premium member caches... I understand your frustrations - but I also think you know the difference between commercial cache and premium members. There’s other sites that do caching as well if you are against the member deal.... Also, if you’re on a fixed income and you’re so concerned about $3 a month (Groundspeak is paying for you to use these forums right now, and their website and their bandwith and everything else...) - I would suggest saving the $100 for a GPS and find a hobby more suitable to your needs.

But there really are plenty of caches you can do without being a premium member.

 

I am looking for something more in the 5-mile radius range. As I said most of the caches within a short distance, to me a short distance is no more then 5 or 6-miles. Anything beyond that is too far for me to travel to.

 

I’m sorry, but if one has to pay any kind of fee to find the cache that does or should make it a commercial cache. Being as one has to pay money in order to find it, it doesn’t or shouldn’t matter to whom said money is being paid to.

 

I’ve checked out some of those other sites, and none of them have anywhere the number of caches within 5 to 6-miles of my house.

 

When I’m ready to buy my GPS I plan on shopping around and hopefully looking for a used one. It was at the urging of my doctor that I looked into geocaching. And no, she can’t help me with any costs. Plus the GPS can be used for things other then geocaching, whereas a membership to the site is only good for one thing.

[Mtn.Bike.Rider]

When I read the guidelines it clearly says that paying a fee makes a cache a commercial cache. So how is it not a commercial cache to pay a fee to the web site?

 

The difference is that you are paying the fee to THIS web site. The guideline regarding commercials caches is to keep caches from promoting other businesses through this website. This website is a business. They make the rules and the rules don’t have to apply to them.

 

I did a search of your area and you do indeed have an awful lot of member only caches there. In most places they are pretty rare. It seems to be all the work of one person, so I guess you’ll just have to ignore caches placed by that person. Even if you eliminate the MOCs there are still hundreds for you to find fairly close to home.

 

I was taught that the rules applied to everyone equally, especially to those who made them. And that if they don’t that they should be changed. I am reminded of a scene from the movie Excalibur. The scene that I am talking about is the one where Lancelot and Guinevere are accused of being lovers. Arthur makes a little speech about how as king and queen the rules apply even more to them then to everyone else. As they have to set the example.

 

Would it be possible to have a time limit placed on how long a cache can remain a Premium Members only cache? As well as a limit on the number of caches that a member can make as Premium Members only caches? Or being as I am sure that it is safe to presume that the system knows when a Premium vs. Basic member logs in just don’t show the Premium Members only caches to non-Premium Members?

[+StarBrand]

I just did a search: http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.asp...8458&dist=6

 

Only 25 of the 115 returned caches are members only caches. 21.7% of them. That still leaves 90 caches to be found or 78.3% of them.

 

Should keep you busy for a while until you decide that $3 for a single solitary month would be worthwhile.

[+briansnat]

I was taught that the rules applied to everyone equally, especially to those who made them.

 

In a dream world maybe. Not in the real world. You don't have to look much further than congress for an example of making rules for everyone else, that they don't have to follow.

 

You are in an unfortunate situation. I've never seen an area with so many MOCs. Normally I'll see one or two out of the closest 100.

Edited March 4, 2008 by briansnat

[Mtn.Bike.Rider]

OR, you could try meeting up with other cachers in your area (easy to do in the regional forums) and see if you can cache with them when they go out for member only caches. This way you could also start caching before you get your GPSr, as other cachers will already have them.

 

Ah, but if I found a Premium Members only cache would I be able to log my find? From visiting the page of one of those Premium Members only caches I would have to say that no, I would not be able to do so. Which in turn would not accurately reflect the number of caches that I had found.

[Mtn.Bike.Rider]

Right now I don’t have a GPS because I am saving up for it, but if I have to pay a fee to the web site in order to go hunt for the caches that are the closet to my home then in the long run it just will not be worth it.

A GPS is a lot more than 3 bucks so it will be more than 3 bucks to find a handful PMOC caches around your house (if that is all you are planning to find). However, if you are planning on finding more than just those caches, then you are making a wise investment!

 

I plan on using my GPS for more then just geocaching, if that is what you’re saying.

[+briansnat]

OR, you could try meeting up with other cachers in your area (easy to do in the regional forums) and see if you can cache with them when they go out for member only caches. This way you could also start caching before you get your GPSr, as other cachers will already have them.

 

Ah, but if I found a Premium Members only cache would I be able to log my find? From visiting the page of one of those Premium Members only caches I would have to say that no, I would not be able to do so. Which in turn would not accurately reflect the number of caches that I had found.

 

There is a "back door" that will allow you to log a MOC if you were caching along with a member.

[Mtn.Bike.Rider]

Pay the $3 fee to be a premium member for just 1 short month and go out and find and log all of those Premium member caches nearby. Repeat that 1 time per year to catch them all up. Meanwhile get out and find all of the non-PM caches in your area.

 

Sadly, that isn’t an option. It’s going to take me a while as it is to scrimp and save just to get the least expensive GPS that I can find. As my disability makes it impossible for me to work, also I am limited in the distance that I can travel. And as I said most of the caches that I can get to easily are marked as premium members only type caches. There are maybe a half dozen that aren’t. I am sure that I am not the only one who wants to try geocaching that is in the same boat that I am.

 

When I was told about this hobby I was under the impression that it was something that is or was free for everyone, the cost of a GPS aside. As I said if I have to pay a fee to go and find a cache then sadly in the long run it isn’t going to be worth it to me.

 

If you shop around I suspect that you'll be to find a GPS for less than a mountain bike.

 

I am riding a bike that is at least 10-years old, and is at least a second IF not a third hand bicycle. No suspension or anything. I would love to have a new bicycle, but this is all I can afford. As I said when I have saved up the money to buy a GPS it will not be a new model I will be looking for a used one.

Edited March 4, 2008 by Mtn.Bike.Rider

[Mtn.Bike.Rider]

I was taught that the rules applied to everyone equally, especially to those who made them.

 

In a dream world maybe. Not in the real world. You don’t have to look much further than congress for an example of making rules for everyone else, that they don’t have to follow.

 

You are in an unfortunate situation. I’ve never seen an area with so many MOCs. Normally I’ll see one or two out of the closest 100.

 

Congress as well as most politicians need to be reminded that they’re in office at our leisure and NOT the other way around.

 

Which is why I asked if it wouldn’t be better to place a time limit on how long a cache can be a Premium Members only cache as well as limiting the number of caches that a member can have that are Premium Members only caches. Wouldn’t that be a fairer way of doing things?

[Mtn.Bike.Rider]

OR, you could try meeting up with other cachers in your area (easy to do in the regional forums) and see if you can cache with them when they go out for member only caches. This way you could also start caching before you get your GPSr, as other cachers will already have them.

 

Ah, but if I found a Premium Members only cache would I be able to log my find? From visiting the page of one of those Premium Members only caches I would have to say that no, I would not be able to do so. Which in turn would not accurately reflect the number of caches that I had found.

 

There is a “back door” that will allow you to log a MOC if you were caching along with a member.

 

That smells like cheating if you ask me. If one has to use a “backdoor” in order to log a found cache isn’t that also wrong?

[+Markwell]

Jeremy - the owner - knows about that backdoor and has allowed it for years. It's only cheating if you think it is.

 

I guess the important thing is: Did you find the cache? If your answer is yes, shouldn't you be able to log it as found (if you fulfilled any additional requirements...).

[+DaFunkyFrogs]

If you aren't careful, you will argue yourself right out of trying this game, which would really be a shame, it's just too much fun! Hope you figure out a way that works for you. Good luck!

[Digital_Cowboy]

When I read the guidelines it clearly says that paying a fee makes a cache a commercial cache. So how is it not a commercial cache to pay a fee to the web site?

 

The difference is that you are paying the fee to THIS web site. The guideline regarding commercials caches is to keep caches from promoting other businesses through this website. This website is a business. They make the rules and the rules don’t have to apply to them.

 

I did a search of your area and you do indeed have an awful lot of member only caches there. In most places they are pretty rare. It seems to be all the work of one person, so I guess you’ll just have to ignore caches placed by that person. Even if you eliminate the MOCs there are still hundreds for you to find fairly close to home.

 

I was taught that the rules applied to everyone equally, especially to those who made them. And that if they don’t that they should be changed. I am reminded of a scene from the movie Excalibur. The scene that I am talking about is the one where Lancelot and Guinevere are accused of being lovers. Arthur makes a little speech about how as king and queen the rules apply even more to them then to everyone else. As they have to set the example.

 

Would it be possible to have a time limit placed on how long a cache can remain a Premium Members only cache? As well as a limit on the number of caches that a member can make as Premium Members only caches? Or being as I am sure that it is safe to presume that the system knows when a Premium vs. Basic member logs in just don’t show the Premium Members only caches to non-Premium Members?

 

I have to agree with the OP that there should be some sort of time limit as to how long a MOC can be a MOC. As well as limiting the number of MOC that a given member can hide over a certain timeframe, like say only say a 2 to 1 ratio, i.e. for every MOC they must place two open caches. Or not displaying the MOCs to basic members at all as he suggested. I don’t think that any of those suggestions is asking for too much.

 

As like the OP I am also on a fixed income as well as ride a bike for transportation, and I think that we might live in or around the same area as I’ve noticed one cacher has around a hundred or so caches and the bulk of them, at least those that are the closest to my house are flagged as being MOCs.

 

Unlike the OP I am willing to ride 20 - 30 miles both ways to look for caches, so I have a few more available to me then he does, but riding a bike for transportation really does limit one as to the distance that one can travel in order to find a cache.

[+Zolgar]

OR, you could try meeting up with other cachers in your area (easy to do in the regional forums) and see if you can cache with them when they go out for member only caches. This way you could also start caching before you get your GPSr, as other cachers will already have them.

 

So far I think this is the best advice you've gotten.

 

Most cachers are nice people, and more than willing to help someone get in to the hobby. (As they say, first hit is always free)

 

If you find some local cachers, odds are you can find at least one who'd be willing to let you tag along. Some might even still have an older model GPSr they'd since upgraded from laying around you could borrow for the trip.

 

It would give you a good feel for geocaching, and let you decide for 100% sure if you're interested in picking it up. From there, save until you can afford a GPSr.

Then, put aside any little but of money you can afford to save, and either alternate on and off if you have a premium account every few months (for $3) or save to $30 and get one year.

 

I'd honestly hazard a guess (though I don't know how FL is on prices) that you could probably get enough every month picking up cans (and maybe bottles) from the area of caches, to pay for a premium membership.

And you'd be doing good for the environment at the same time.

[+DaFunkyFrogs]

If you decide to meet up with other cachers in your area, this could also help with another of your problems: transportation. If you offer to help with gas costs, you could ride along with them to look for caches that are too far for you to travel on your bike.

[+softball29]

Though I feel for you and such, I just can't agree with the thought process.

 

If you can afford to save up for a GPS, you can afford one measly month of a membership here (it's $3!) to get the member caches, go find them, log them and then cancel your membership.

 

If a member chooses to make the caches member's only, that's his/her right, just like it's Groundspeak's right to charge a fee to see those caches. This is their site, their listings etc. You have to abide by their rules and that's how it works.

 

I bought a GPSr. I paid my membership fees. Therefore, I'll be steamed if someone gets it for free. There are perks to being a member, this is one of them. For those who do pay the fee, it wouldn't be right if Groundspeak had waivers for others, because to be honest, I'm sure all of us could come up with a reason we don't want to or can't afford the $3 a month or $30 a year.

 

I'm not on a fixed income, per say, but I can say that my bills (including ridiculous student loans) take up a lot of my play money and I needed my tax return to even consider a GPSr. As for the $3 per month fee, I consider it my donation to the company who upkeeps the site (I have my own sites and know bandwidth can add up), so any small thing I can do to help this new hobby of mine is OK with me.

 

Just my two cents, of course.

Edited March 20, 2008 by softball29

[+P'ville Lions R Us]

Another thing to consider is the amount of time and money some people put into their caches. Some caches take hours to plan and build. Maybe some of these MOC's are placed by these cache builders who feel that they put their whole heart into furthering the sport. In doing so, they only wan't members who support this site to be able to access their cache.

 

You sound like a persistant person so don't give up. I'm sure you will find a way to work it out.

[Mtn.Bike.Rider]

OR, you could try meeting up with other cachers in your area (easy to do in the regional forums) and see if you can cache with them when they go out for member only caches. This way you could also start caching before you get your GPSr, as other cachers will already have them.

 

So far I think this is the best advice you’ve gotten.

 

Most cachers are nice people, and more than willing to help someone get in to the hobby. (As they say, first hit is always free)

 

If you find some local cachers, odds are you can find at least one who’d be willing to let you tag along. Some might even still have an older model GPSr they’d since upgraded from laying around you could borrow for the trip.

 

It would give you a good feel for geocaching, and let you decide for 100% sure if you’re interested in picking it up. From there, save until you can afford a GPSr.

Then, put aside any little but of money you can afford to save, and either alternate on and off if you have a premium account every few months (for $3) or save to $30 and get one year.

 

As I said earlier it was my doctor’s suggestion that I try it. She showed me this site and after reading about it, I know that it is for me.

 

That is what I am doing right now I have one of those 5-gal water bottles that I drop my change into at the end of the day. I use that for my “rainy day/mad money” money. That way I’m able to save up for things that I can’t afford to buy right away.

 

I’d honestly hazard a guess (though I don’t know how FL is on prices) that you could probably get enough every month picking up cans (and maybe bottles) from the area of caches, to pay for a premium membership.

And you’d be doing good for the environment at the same time.

 

Sadly here in Fl there isn’t a deposit collected for either cans or bottles. I think that IF were to collect cans that I’d have to take them to some sort of junkyard. And I’m pretty sure that any quantity of cans that I’d collect that would make it worthwhile to turn in for that would be too heavy to carry on my bicycle.

 

Also most of the perks from a premium membership are unusable to me as I do not have a computer at home. I use the computers at my neighborhood library.

[Mtn.Bike.Rider]

Though I feel for you and such, I just can’t agree with the thought process.

 

If you can afford to save up for a GPS, you can afford one measly month of a membership here (it’s $3!) to get the member caches, go find them, log them and then cancel your membership.

 

If a member chooses to make the caches member’s only, that’s his/her right, just like it’s Groundspeak’s right to charge a fee to see those caches. This is their site, their listings etc. You have to abide by their rules and that’s how it works.

 

I bought a GPSr. I paid my membership fees. Therefore, I’ll be steamed if someone gets it for free. There are perks to being a member, this is one of them. For those who do pay the fee, it wouldn’t be right if Groundspeak had waivers for others, because to be honest, I’m sure all of us could come up with a reason we don’t want to or can’t afford the $3 a month or $30 a year.

 

I’m not on a fixed income, per say, but I can say that my bills (including ridiculous student loans) take up a lot of my play money and I needed my tax return to even consider a GPSr. As for the $3 per month fee, I consider it my donation to the company who upkeeps the site (I have my own sites and know bandwidth can add up), so any small thing I can do to help this new hobby of mine is OK with me.

 

Just my two cents, of course.

 

I’ve just read in another thread where a member said that a member in this area has made their caches as being premium members only so that they wouldn’t get “hundreds” of E-Mails in their inbox on a daily basis. IF that’s their reason then I have to agree that they’re more or less abusing the premium members only cache listing.

 

Also as I just said in another reply in this thread I don’t have a computer at home so the bulk of the perks for being a premium member are of no use to me. Such as pocket queries, that can be downloaded, or mapping routes that again can be downloaded. In short anything that I have to download and then transfer to my computer is useless to me as they don’t allow you to install software on the libraries computers.

[+Always & Forever 5]

I have to agree with the OP that there should be some sort of time limit as to how long a MOC can be a MOC. As well as limiting the number of MOC that a given member can hide over a certain timeframe, like say only say a 2 to 1 ratio, i.e. for every MOC they must place two open caches. Or not displaying the MOCs to basic members at all as he suggested. I don’t think that any of those suggestions is asking for too much.

 

As a PM, why should I be limited to the number of MOC's I place (by the way, I don't own any), or how long they could remain a MOC if I choose to place one in the future? Too many rules spoil a good thing.

 

Not every sport in the world is suitable for everyone. If the OP can't cache in his area because a $3 fee is stopping him, then just maybe he should find a pasttime more suited to his financial situation.

 

I don't skydive because I can't afford it...maybe all the skydiving schools should waive their costs for me, hmm?

Edited March 21, 2008 by Always & Forever 5

[Digital_Cowboy]

I have to agree with the OP that there should be some sort of time limit as to how long a MOC can be a MOC. As well as limiting the number of MOC that a given member can hide over a certain timeframe, like say only say a 2 to 1 ratio, i.e. for every MOC they must place two open caches. Or not displaying the MOCs to basic members at all as he suggested. I don’t think that any of those suggestions is asking for too much.

 

As a PM, why should I be limited to the number of MOCs I place (by the way, I don’t own any), or how long they could remain a MOC if I choose to place one in the future? Too many rules spoil a good thing.

 

Because other then equipment this is/was suppose to be a game/hobby/pastime that anyone could play for FREE without limits. And it’s too late to say:

 

Too many rules spoil a good thing.

 

As when Dave Ulmer first created this game there were ONLY four rules:

• take something
  leave something
  record it in the logbook
  have fun
  

Now there are a whole bunch of rules and opinions as to what should go in a cache or where it should be located.

 

And because MOCs put an elitist spin on a hobby that’s suppose to be FREE for all to enjoy. It’s like saying you’re not worthy to play with me. Or it’s like the kid who gets upset about something and taking his ball home.

 

Not every sport in the world is suitable for everyone. If the OP can’t cache in his area because a $3 fee is stopping him, then just maybe he should find a pastime more suited to his financial situation.

 

Again this a game/hobby/pastime that was suppose to be enjoyable to EVERYONE regardless of of financial situation.

 

I don’t skydive because I can’t afford it...maybe all the skydiving schools should waive their costs for me, hmm?

 

That is an asinine comparison, as skydiving schools have to pay instructors, insurance, airplane maintenance, fuel for airplanes, rent or mortgage on school buildings.

 

Also the OP said the following:

 

Also most of the perks from a premium membership are unusable to me as I do not have a computer at home. I use the computers at my neighborhood library.

 

So even if it’s just the $3.00 every couple of months to get the MOCs, why should he pay for the rest of the perks that are useless to him?

[+TeamGumbo]

My name is Billy, and I am a new member. I was going over the list of caches in my area and most of them are listed as being premium members only caches. I thought that I read in the rules/guidelines that any cache that requires the finder to pay a fee in order to find were considered to be commercial caches. Doesn’t the paying of a fee to the web site in order to find the cache make it a commercial cache?

 

I think you are confusing commercial caches with member perks. From the guidelines page:

 

"Commercial Caches

 

Commercial caches attempt to use the Geocaching.com web site cache reporting tool directly or indirectly (intentionally or non-intentionally) to solicit customers through a Geocaching.com listing. These are NOT permitted. Examples include for-profit locations that require an entrance fee, or locations that sell products or services. If the finder is required to go inside the business, interact with employees, and/or purchase a product or service, then the cache is presumed to be commercial. "

 

I'm sure you can see the difference. If not, well, I think you've made up your mind.

 

There was a time when I was very poor (not so long ago). I cut out pretty much *all* extra-curricular activities that cost me ANYTHING. The public beach was my only recreation. I made a CONSCIOUS decision to save money.

 

And now I'm rich beyond my wildest dreams!

[+TeamGumbo]

P.S. Weird that the St. Petersburg posts are suddenly such small fonts!

[+Always & Forever 5]

Because other then equipment this is/was suppose to be a game/hobby/pastime that anyone could play for FREE without limits.

Please tell me where it states that in the rules, terms and conditions, or anywhere else, for that matter...

 

Again this a game/hobby/pastime that was suppose to be enjoyable to EVERYONE regardless of of financial situation.

Again, where does it say that? And, it is, except if you opt to become a PM. Nobody is forced to join.

 

That is an asinine comparison, as skydiving schools have to pay instructors, insurance, airplane maintenance, fuel for airplanes, rent or mortgage on school buildings.

And, the operators of this website have no overhead, right? No fees to pay, no salaries to cough up money for, nothing, hmm?

 

So even if it’s just the $3.00 every couple of months to get the MOCs, why should he pay for the rest of the perks that are useless to him?

He doesn't have to. It's an option. He could opt not to, like so many others have.

[+Glamisguy99]

It’s going to take me a while as it is to scrimp and save just to get the least expensive GPS that I can find.

Just be sure it has everything you are looking for. I just picked up a Magellan eXplorist 100 for $25 on clearance as a backup unit or for friends to use when we go Geocaching, but I didnt realize I couldnt download coordinates to it, I have to enter them manually. Might be acceptable to some but I prefer to load waypoints directly to the unit. My bargain wasn't so sweet once I realized that.