Discoveries Abusing the system?

[+Zop]

Hi all,

 

I recently came across this tidbit of information of which I was fully unaware of:

 

-snip-

If you log a bogus virtual log on a TB, or offer your own TB up for virtual logging you will risk having that TB page locked forever. This means, if you never saw a bug, but got the bug number and youlog it, that bug is in risk of being taken out of the game. Don't do this to TB owners who inadvertently might post a photo, or someone else posts a photo, of their TB number. Don't log it virtually. It's considered abuse of the system. And it's not fair play.

---

 

So naturally, I can understand why this would be taboo to do this to a coin or TB which is not your own but I am curious about the following:

 

A ) Suppose a person places their own coin with pictures in an Arm-chair cache which would be impossible to visit in the first place? How does this impact the system?

 

B ) How do coin or TB discoveries (virtual or physical) abuse the system if you is your own coin being discovered?

 

PLEASE! This thread is specifically about coins and NOT virtual or Arm-chair caches.

Edited March 1, 2008 by Zop

[danoshimano]

A ) Suppose a person places their own coin with pictures in an Arm-chair cache which would be impossible to visit in the first place? How does this impact the system?

As far as the coin or TB goes, I don't think it breaks the rules.

 

B ) How do coin or TB discoveries (virtual or physical) abuse the system if you is your own coin being discovered?

There is a rule that virtual coin or TB discoveries are not allowed. Therefore, if anyone makes a virtual discovery (or sets it up to allow such discoveries) it would be breaking the rules, and breaking the rules is abusing the system.

[+FluteFace]

Speaking from the point of view of one who owned a virtual TB that was locked, they were (to my understanding) allowed at one time. Mine is a white jeep (I'm looking at it now) that I purchased at Mal-Wart and attached a TB tag to. I didn't physically release it 'cause I wanted my own white jeep (didn't want to steal an official WJTB) and I thought a virtual TB might be interesting, having seen more than a few here and there. I was quite open about sharing the number and about the fact that you would not gain a WJTB icon when you logged mine.

 

It was pretty nifty from an owner's point of view to watch it travel -- it visited all the continents and racked up nearly 141,000 miles before the PTB locked it. Although that was a disappointment, I don't mind hugely. The things that bother me a bit are 1) The rumored knee-jerk reaction to an incident that supposedly triggered the locking of all virtual TBs, and 2) I paid for that TB tag and now it's worthless for its intended purpose.

 

Now, in defense of Groundspeak, one of the things I have heard is that virtual TBs do use a bit of hard drive space. (That may be the real reason virtual TBs were locked.) I suspect that's a pretty small amount in the overall TB database, but when I look at how the game has been proliferating, it could add up to a pretty big hard drive now if virts were still allowed.

 

. . . and that's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

[+BlueDeuce]

1) The rumored knee-jerk reaction to an incident that supposedly triggered the locking of all virtual TBs, and 2) I paid for that TB tag and now it's worthless for its intended purpose.

 

It wasn't a rumor and it's not a drive space issue.

 

If you agree to delete all the virtual logs you might be able to have it unlocked.

[+BlueDeuce]

A ) Suppose a person places their own coin with pictures in an Arm-chair cache which would be impossible to visit in the first place? How does this impact the system?

As far as the coin or TB goes, I don't think it breaks the rules.

 

I believe that the people who are the ones to meet the cache requirements are allowed to log bugs through it due to a grandfather clause. However I would seriously doubt gc.com would allow people to simply dump a bug there and let anyone Discover it virtually by seeing the tracking number via a photo. If you see it happen, report it to one of the Hitchhiker Forum Mods.

 

Edit: Clarification

Edited March 1, 2008 by BlueDeuce

[danoshimano]

A ) Suppose a person places their own coin with pictures in an Arm-chair cache which would be impossible to visit in the first place? How does this impact the system?

As far as the coin or TB goes, I don't think it breaks the rules.

 

I retract my answer on that. I completely mis-read the question and didn't understand the type of cache that was being asked about.

[+BlueDeuce]

I hear ya. Personally I wish they would retract the caches.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

A ) Suppose a person places their own coin with pictures in an Arm-chair cache which would be impossible to visit in the first place? How does this impact the system?

As far as the coin or TB goes, I don't think it breaks the rules.

 

I believe that the people who are the ones to meet the cache requirements are allowed to log bugs through it due to a grandfather clause. However I would seriously doubt gc.com would allow people to simply dump a bug there and let anyone Discover it virtually by seeing the tracking number via a photo. If you see it happen, report it to one of the Hitchhiker Forum Mods.

 

Edit: Clarification

 

Correct. Allowing virtual finds on a TB or coin is not allowed. "Placing" one in a virtual cache/arm-chair cache (call it what you want) is going to get the coin locked.

[+fairyhoney]

"Correct. Allowing virtual finds on a TB or coin is not allowed. "Placing" one in a virtual cache/arm-chair cache (call it what you want) is going to get the coin locked."

 

We also wouldn't want any ore virtual caches to go by the wayside, either!

[Jake - Team A.I.]

I've recently created a tool to help people log the coins in my collection. I have a CD that has the tracking number and the link directly to the log page. In order for the log to count, I am stipulating that you have to log a find on the collection travelbug (which isn't on the CD) and provide a changing code word that accompanies the collection.

 

I have put this on information on a small business card CD with instructions that it is not a trade item and for for single use.

 

My biggest fear is that it disk will be passed to other people but I have no problem with deleting logs for people who don't log the collection travelbug.

[+Zop]

Correct. Allowing virtual finds on a TB or coin is not allowed. "Placing" one in a virtual cache/arm-chair cache (call it what you want) is going to get the coin locked.

 

Thank you, this helps a little however, maybe I should have phrased my question a little differently.

 

I was assuming that the "system" was the infrastructure (servers, bandwidth etc...) and not a set of rules, I was trying to understand how a virtual find was abusing the system.

 

Now that I understand that it is simply against the rules, I understand that it is an abuse but I am at further loss as to why.

 

In all reality, is this no different than a geocoin proxy? both are pictures, neither represent the actual coin and either can be grabbed and dropped in to another cache.

 

If this method of sharing a cool design is against the rules and abuses the system, what about sharing your coins and tbs for discovery at an event? There, it is not as though they are being found and moved from cache to cache, wouldn't that too be an abuse?

[+BlueDeuce]

If this method of sharing a cool design is against the rules and abuses the system, what about sharing your coins and tbs for discovery at an event? There, it is not as though they are being found and moved from cache to cache, wouldn't that too be an abuse?

 

Virtual logging was at one time generally acceptable in both claiming and moving, meaning that gc.com didn't expend much effort to prevent it. When the practice went a little overboard it became restricted. Kind of the same thing Jeremy currently says about multiple loggings of caches and events. To paraphrase, he doesn't care much for the practice but he's not going to restrict it unless it starts being abused....

 

Anyway, sharing coins at an event means you were in actual proximity to the traveler and you are not logging it virtually. People generally do this to collect icons and stats. That practice is acceptable to gc.com and is not considered abuse.

 

So in short, gc.com decides what they consider abuse of their system. While one thing is restricted they may not consider it so in a different setting even though it seems like it should be.

 

 

edit: typos

Edited March 2, 2008 by BlueDeuce

[+Butterfly_lady]

I just got a log on one of my coins that is here in my collection, from a German cacher that has not been to NZ.

A polite email has been sent. I see 755 caches found, and 697 Trackables logged.

I shall await their response, with the possilbility of deleting their log in a couple of days.

But it made aware of how easy it is to go through the trackables page, searching by codes until you find one that is active, then logging it. All it really needs is patience and the ability to keep track of the # as you go.

 

SO, is there a name & shame forum for this sort of logger?

It really seems contrary to the spirit of geocoins.

And, no - The photos on my coin page does not have the tracking # on it

 

Edit to update,

After a pleasant email, the logger has deleted their log...

Seems they were at an event and did get some coins to discover.

Edited May 2, 2008 by Butterfly_lady

[Jake - Team A.I.]

I just got a log on one of my coins that is here in my collection, from a German cacher that has not been to NZ.

A polite email has been sent. I see 755 caches found, and 697 Trackables logged.

I shall await their response, with the possilbility of deleting their log in a couple of days.

But it made aware of how easy it is to go through the trackables page, searching by codes until you find one that is active, then logging it. All it really needs is patience and the ability to keep track of the # as you go.

 

SO, is there a name & shame forum for this sort of logger?

It really seems contrary to the spirit of geocoins.

And, no - The photos on my coin page does not have the tracking # on it

 

Edit to update,

After a pleasant email, the logger has deleted their log...

Seems they were at an event and did get some coins to discover.

 

I also just had one of my coins discovered by a German cacher. I've sent an email asking about the discovery, but haven't received a response.

 

Since his discovery didn't include a discovery of my collection travel bug, the log gets deleted.

[+BlueDeuce]

I just got a log on one of my coins that is here in my collection, from a German cacher that has not been to NZ.

A polite email has been sent. I see 755 caches found, and 697 Trackables logged.

I shall await their response, with the possilbility of deleting their log in a couple of days.

But it made aware of how easy it is to go through the trackables page, searching by codes until you find one that is active, then logging it. All it really needs is patience and the ability to keep track of the # as you go.

 

SO, is there a name & shame forum for this sort of logger?

It really seems contrary to the spirit of geocoins.

And, no - The photos on my coin page does not have the tracking # on it

 

Edit to update,

After a pleasant email, the logger has deleted their log...

Seems they were at an event and did get some coins to discover.

 

It is possible to typo and pull up the wrong traveler. Glad to see they agreed to delete it.

 

There's is no place to list cachers that appear to be abusing the system, such things are against forum guidelines.

[+Six Little Spookies]

Since I'm not independently wealthy, discoveries at events are the best way for me to add to my icon collection. On the flip side, logging discoveries without actually seeing the coins is wrong to me. Out in the field I've had cachers offer me a list of their coins' numbers, but I've turned them down since they didn't actually have the coins with them for me to see. (I'm ok with a proxy as long as it actually has a photocopy of the coin, but that's a topic for another thread)

[fivedime]

I, too, had a German "cacher" log one of my coins...which had never even been released into the wild! It took a few testy emails to get him to stop re-logging the deleted logs.

 

Idiots.