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HCx inaccuracy after upgrade to 2.60/2.60

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inaccuracy problem OR odometer bug

 

...going to buy a saw to eliminate heavy tree cover :P

 

isn't it funny :D

I'll say not! I went back behind my place, in the bush (as we call it here). My Legend HCx froze off and on until I got into a clearing again. I can't say the tree canopy was that thick. I was hoping to be able to measure the area. This of course, will not be possible if things only work only every minute or so.

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Hi,

 

I succeeded to downgrade my Vista HCX to GPS firmware version 2.30 (factory default) as follows:

 

1. Download the file from: http://www.garmin.com/software/GPSChipsetT...onFile__230.rgn and save it somewhere;

2. Connect your Vista/Legend HCX to the PC with the USB cable;

2. Make a shortcut of WebUpdater on the desktop and drag&drop the file you saved onto the shortcut;

3. WebUpdater will launch and it will install the GPS firmware to version 2.30. Ignore the WebUpdater proposal to update to a newer version (2.60).

4. After GPS reboot you can check you have 2.30 GPS firmware version and please patient to gain a fix as ephemerids data will be lost.

 

This solved the inaccuracy problem for me but reverted to the odometer bug.

 

Cheers

Thanks for the solution I have now downgraded my Legend HCx as I prefer the odometer bug to the position error.

One thing I did notice was after downgrading that when walking slowly in open country the instantaneous speed report went down to 1.1 mph. This is with 2.5 software and 2.3 GPS software. Perhaps the odometer bug may not be as bad as originally.

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I just received an email from Garmin. I told them of the problem with my unit freezing/not reading properly. I said I was reluctant to upgrade to 2.60 because of the problems indicated on Groundspeak. They indicated they have not heard of any problem with the upgrade to 2.60 and wanted to know what I meant. Hmmmmmmm.....

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I just received an email from Garmin. I told them of the problem with my unit freezing/not reading properly. I said I was reluctant to upgrade to 2.60 because of the problems indicated on Groundspeak. They indicated they have not heard of any problem with the upgrade to 2.60 and wanted to know what I meant. Hmmmmmmm.....

I'd give them the URL of this topic. (And the one about the Colorado accuracy problems too). :laughing:

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Am I relieved that I found this topic!!!

 

I has a number of DNF's today. For caches I did find, while standing over the cache, my Vista HCx would report that my error is 20ft and that I am 26ft away. My HCx used to be very reliable but it has proved to be difficult since I upgraded to 2.60. WAAS was enabled. No maps loaded (using the base map).

 

I will try downgrading the firmware using the method described in this forum. Then I will try the ones I did not find, and maybe re-visit the ones I did to see if the accuracy is better. I will contact Garmin tech support to complain.

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Please report also this link to Garmin!!!

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=184158

 

Both models vista hcx and colorado have a mediaktek chip. - both models have the inaccuracy bug

The previous version did not have the bug

 

Garmin does not know about it :D:D:laughing:

 

I am still not sure if garmin really knows about that mediatek-bug.

on JUNE 19 i was writing the same words

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...t&p=3524274

 

FUNNY :D

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Hiked this weekend with some friends so we had a 60CSx and 2 Vista HCx units running 2.60/2.60 One Vista had never had custom maps loaded and hadn't experienced the position bug yet. My Vista has had both (see earlier posts). We saw the position bug a bunch of times. My friend had his Vista set up to never use the backlight, whereas my backlight comes on with a button push. We noticed that my Vista was keeping better position than his, so I suggested he power cycle the unit. He didn't push the power button for long enough, so the backlight came on AND HIS ACCURACY IMPROVED! After that, anytime his accuracy began to degrade, he activated the backlight and the accuracy got better. It seemed like his accuracy didn't improve as much as when he power cycled, but there isn't a way to test that, so it is just a guess from comparing the numbers on the 3 units.

This problem seems like an integrator error problem where error just continues to build up until something causes it to reset. I wish Garmin would take this seriously.

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Hi,

 

I succeeded to downgrade my Vista HCX to GPS firmware version 2.30 (factory default) as follows:

 

1. Download the file from: http://www.garmin.com/software/GPSChipsetT...onFile__230.rgn and save it somewhere;

2. Connect your Vista/Legend HCX to the PC with the USB cable;

2. Make a shortcut of WebUpdater on the desktop and drag&drop the file you saved onto the shortcut;

3. WebUpdater will launch and it will install the GPS firmware to version 2.30. Ignore the WebUpdater proposal to update to a newer version (2.60).

4. After GPS reboot you can check you have 2.30 GPS firmware version and please patient to gain a fix as ephemerids data will be lost.

 

This solved the inaccuracy problem for me but reverted to the odometer bug.

 

Cheers

Thanks for the solution I have now downgraded my Legend HCx as I prefer the odometer bug to the position error.

One thing I did notice was after downgrading that when walking slowly in open country the instantaneous speed report went down to 1.1 mph. This is with 2.5 software and 2.3 GPS software. Perhaps the odometer bug may not be as bad as originally.

 

Downgraded my Vista HCX back to v2.30. Then I went out fishing in my kayak. I use the vista as a speedometer. I like to troll between 1 and 2 mph. Well it turns out this is too slow for v2.3 to register consistently, v2.6 preformed much better in this regard but has other problems as previously stated. So it looks like I need both versions (2.3 for fishing and 2.6 for everything else). Is there a way to download the v2.6 gps firmware so I can make changes while not connected to the internet?

 

Thanks,

Pete

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Well, I did it. I upgraded as instructed by Garmin. I don't notice a difference. It would not read under tree cover before and it doesn't work now. It did work fine in the car. I wish Garmin would simply type in "Garmin HCx bug" and READ. This problem is not new and it is well documented. It would seem from everything I have read there is a problem with the new chip and not the software. Many other models with the new chip have the same problem. Its sensitivity seems to be interfering with the accuracy as it averages the location data. I sent another email but I am not holding out much hope as this has gone on for a long time. I wish I had come upon this link BEFORE I bought my unit. :)

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Hiked this weekend with some friends so we had a 60CSx and 2 Vista HCx units running 2.60/2.60 One Vista had never had custom maps loaded and hadn't experienced the position bug yet. My Vista has had both (see earlier posts). We saw the position bug a bunch of times. My friend had his Vista set up to never use the backlight, whereas my backlight comes on with a button push. We noticed that my Vista was keeping better position than his, so I suggested he power cycle the unit. He didn't push the power button for long enough, so the backlight came on AND HIS ACCURACY IMPROVED! After that, anytime his accuracy began to degrade, he activated the backlight and the accuracy got better. It seemed like his accuracy didn't improve as much as when he power cycled, but there isn't a way to test that, so it is just a guess from comparing the numbers on the 3 units.

I think what's really happening is that when you go to turn on the backlight, your hand covers the antenna enough to cause a lock break on at least some of the problem ranges.

 

If anyone is in a situation where this is happening, could you try an experiment? Cover up the antenna well enough to break lock on the satellites. It might be enough to just wrap your hand around it or stick it into a mylar chip* bag for a couple of seconds. See if your position snaps back to where you expect.

 

*On preview, I realize this could be read two ways. One of those anti-static bags that memory chips or circuit boards come in would work too, but I just meant something like Baked Lays. :)

This problem seems like an integrator error problem where error just continues to build up until something causes it to reset. I wish Garmin would take this seriously.

You're actually pretty close to what the problem likely is.

 

Part of the standard bag of tricks to get a smoother position is to smooth out the noisy pseudorange measurements with the carrier signal. But you can only do this as long as you don't break lock on the carrier and lose track of how many wavelengths have gone by.

 

What I suspect is happening is that when there the reflected signals are too strong, it's messing up this carrier smoothing or something equivalent like carrier updates to the filter or whatever else the chip is doing that's basically the same idea. This could be because it's not detecting the lock breaks because of the high multipath, or that it loses the signal and picks up a direct reflected signal (where it can't see the unreflected signal at all, as opposed to most multipath which is a blend of the true signal and the reflections) and that makes the smoothing initialize incorrectly. Even in the latter case, it should detect it as a lock break when the direct signal is visible again.

 

It's really MediaTek's problem, but if anyone's in contact with customer service and can get something passed back to engineering, tell them that they are getting too many undetected cycle slips in high multipath environments and it's messing with the carrier smoothing.

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Odometer bug is fully back - 11.4 mile hike about 50% in heavy deciduous woodland - odometer reading 9.96 miles

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Odometer bug is fully back - 11.4 mile hike about 50% in heavy deciduous woodland - odometer reading 9.96 miles

Of course it is -- you downgraded. What did you expect? Upgrade to 2.60 and that bug will be fixed, as it is for the rest of us with 2.60.

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Did a hike with the downgraded chipset firmware (2.60/2.30) and did not experience the position drift problem, and everything (except the speed and the odometer errors) seemed to work fine. On the same route I usually got several such drifts with the 2.60 chipset fw.

 

So I'm happy (sort of)...

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Odometer bug is fully back - 11.4 mile hike about 50% in heavy deciduous woodland - odometer reading 9.96 miles

Of course it is -- you downgraded. What did you expect? Upgrade to 2.60 and that bug will be fixed, as it is for the rest of us with 2.60.

I did the upgrade and the odometer is still not working properly. It will show me as stopped frequently even in open areas with a clear view. The accuracy seems to be okay unless of course it has stopped for a minute or more in which case it was 37m off of the actual trail.

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Did a hike with the downgraded chipset firmware (2.60/2.30) and did not experience the position drift problem, and everything (except the speed and the odometer errors) seemed to work fine. On the same route I usually got several such drifts with the 2.60 chipset fw.

 

So I'm happy (sort of)...

Did you tell Garmin that it had solved your problem? That, at least, should get them to acknowledge that there is indeed a problem and get something moving.

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Did a hike with the downgraded chipset firmware (2.60/2.30) and did not experience the position drift problem, and everything (except the speed and the odometer errors) seemed to work fine. On the same route I usually got several such drifts with the 2.60 chipset fw.

 

So I'm happy (sort of)...

Did you tell Garmin that it had solved your problem? That, at least, should get them to acknowledge that there is indeed a problem and get something moving.

hi i just got the garmin legend hc and from what i have read here i am having the same problems of being off track at some points. i had turned on my (waas) and thought i screwed it up. i turned it off and had some improvement. but i am still having drifting problem and other bugs going on,some of what has been mentioned here. i to upgrade to this new 2.60 from what had come with it. so i don't know what it was like in past firmwares. so put me on the list of complaints to garmin and hope they do something about it.

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I sent the follwing email to several garmin addresses I could find on their site. I'll post any responses.

 

Dear Garmin,

 

There's a widely reported and well documented problem with accuracy of

some units with the high sensitivity MediaTek chipset (Vista HCx,

Colorado 400t, etc). These are just some of the forum topics that

cover the observed problems:

 

 

 

Garmin product support has constantly denied the existence of this

issue, even though on the forum several people have reported that they

have talked to Garmin representatives, sometimes multiple times.

 

The problem has been narrowed down to the 2.60 chipset firmware for

these units. On the forum someone posted downgrade instructions that

restores the factory default 2.30 chipset firmware, and it has been

verified to fix the accuracy problems.

 

Several factors have been eliminated as the possible cause of the

problem:

 

- bad satellite reception

- custom maps

- WAAS being turned on or off

- backlight on/off

- low battery power

 

People are very unsatisfied with the response from Garmin. We have

paid a lot of money for these otherwise excellent units, and may

rightly expect them to perform their most basic function of

determining position as accurately as possible.

 

Please respond to this email or to the forum regarding the status of

your investigation to this problem.

 

Thanks in advance.

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you will get a answer like:

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin Ltd.

 

We appreciate your comments & opinions regarding our products. I have

forwarded your email to the design team as they are always interested on

customer feedback. Many of the comments/suggestions we receive (such as

yours) are often evaluated towards potential implementation into future

GARMIN products or current unit software releases. We cannot guarantee

that what you have suggested will occur, however we do appreciate you

passing along your opinions.

 

Kind regards

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We have paid a lot of money for these otherwise excellent units, and may

rightly expect them to perform their most basic function of

determining position as accurately as possible.

Thanks for this excellent summary, that I fully support, especially above quoted part.

 

All of us have been quite friendly with Garmin regarding this significant drift experienced with 2.60.

 

If Garmin continues to deny that this issue exists, the other possibility is to have a less friendly approach and explain to Garmin that inability (in some cases) for the unit to give the right position could result in damages or even death of a person.

 

I know there is a disclaimer. But what a bad image for Garmin if this happens!

 

On the other hand:

- Odometer bug has been fixed in 2.60

- drift bug doesn't exist in 2.30, but does in 2.60

 

I believe (but perhaps I am wrong) that these tow bugs are independent. By the way, solutions are basically there and it's only a matter of having them packaged in a 2.70 version, for instance.

Edited by TransFXB

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I work for a software company and I think the best approach to have this resolved is for everyone to bombard the company with these issues. If people are ringing in everyday it should be raised as a "showstopper".

 

The more people reporting this each day the quicker this issue should be resolved in a firmware update.

 

I sent my Etrex back. It was freezing all the time resulting in a total lock up. The unit was useless to me and there is no fix for this problem.. I am now waiting for another unit, but now since reading this thread I do not have high hopes for this unit at all.

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Here's the reply I got from a "Product Support Specialist":

 

Dear X Y,

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

This isn't some I have heard of as of yet. From what I read from the

forums is that a lot of this may be error of GPS. The unit will have a

drift. If you leave a unit alone in the same place 5 minutes it will

drop a track log that is jumbled.

 

For old Garmin versions:

www.Gpsinformation.net

 

I couldn't find a way to down grade the Gps SW version.

 

With Best Regards,

...

 

One has to wonder what clue level their non-specialist support staff has... Should I give this up as a lost cause, or should I explain kindly to Garmin support staff, how the GPS SW version can be downgraded on their products?

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Here's the reply I got from a "Product Support Specialist":

 

Dear X Y,

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

This isn't some I have heard of as of yet. From what I read from the

forums is that a lot of this may be error of GPS. The unit will have a

drift. If you leave a unit alone in the same place 5 minutes it will

drop a track log that is jumbled.

 

For old Garmin versions:

www.Gpsinformation.net

 

I couldn't find a way to down grade the Gps SW version.

 

With Best Regards,

...

 

One has to wonder what clue level their non-specialist support staff has... Should I give this up as a lost cause, or should I explain kindly to Garmin support staff, how the GPS SW version can be downgraded on their products?

 

You sent a well written and concise email and THAT"S the response you get?

And they send you to gpsinformation.net instead of garmin.com?

 

Pathetic. Looks like Garmin is becoming the new Magellan.

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My gut feeling is that Garmin already noticed the bug, and is working on it (do not know the priority though).

 

They just refuse to admit the 2.6 issue (so not having to make a commitment or else, face product returns) until a fix is posted.

 

Since the bug is not shown in 60csx, the fix would have been easy had HCX had the same chipset, but it is not. So the bug may even introduced by the chipset M driver (that came with the 2.6 update if you use webupdate), and is not totally under Garmin control.

 

As to if Garmin is towards to become Magellan, it is marching towards the direction.

 

I recently ordered a 2009 map update via mygarmin, since I already unlocked 2008, 2009 is the only update option from mygarmin web order. Order confirmation email also indicates it is 2009. But instead 2008 is shipped to me, contact Garmin, their reply instead of saying something like "Sorry we'll rush delivery to you the correct one", the reply is "Are you sure when you order the update, it say 2009 etc". Send back email to them will wait another 2 days to reply.

 

(I don't have time/patience waiting 20+ minutes to call during the work hour)

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NO, & YES!

 

Norm

RRLover, your kind words are appreciated when there seems to be no hope. I sent a reply, explaining the downgrade process, and gently asking for the information in the original message to be forwarded to engineering. I'm now waiting for the evil magic to break.

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This is not new information, but I wanted to also confirm the results of downgrading to version 2.30. I just finished a hike (a loop) and compared the tracks to the same hike I did earlier with version 2.60 and the track log proves the problem.

 

Version 2.60 - Starting track and ending track were 427 feet different

 

Version 2.30 - Starting track and ending track were 18 feet different

 

Of course, according to the track log the hike was 7.5 miles while the odometer showed 6.0 (with version 2.30).....hmmm....I think I can live with version 2.30 more than I can live with 2.60. At least now I can tell where I am at!

 

I agree with the others....Garmin is well on their way to take over Magellan's position after Magellan closes the doors.

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It occurred to me today that Garmin presumably log faults and problems in a call database. How about asking for the reference number of your call? If they were posted in a list (say, a separate topic), any future "we haven't heard about that before" from Garmin could be followed up with "try looking up these call numbers..."

 

Somehow I doubt you'd get the reference number out of Garmin when you call them, but it might be worth a shot.

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When I called them last month, I asked for a reference number so that I wouldn't have to repeat all of the symptoms and answer all of the same questions the next time I called. I was told that there was no such reference number and no way to track a problem from call to call. During the call, however, I heard them typing something in the background. (Maybe they're just playing a really fun computer game and can't be bothered by callers.)

 

So, then I decided I would email Garmin so that all of the previous replies would be recorded in the text. This is fine, except that you have to wait 2-5 days before they reply to the email. And if they answer the wrong question, or even if they don't read the previous emails, you can get an answer that you've already tried.

 

It is frustrating either way. I sure wish they would come join the forum. We'd all like to help them get the problem figured out. It is in our best interest and theirs. Too bad they can't see that.

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I just picked up a legend hcx from cabelas and it has SW version 2.5 on it.....should I just keep that on there or are their any probs with that as well?

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I was told that there was no such reference number and no way to track a problem from call to call.

That doesn't seem like a good way to run a technical call centre. I guess it explains all the "I haven't heard of that before" replies. Presumably this information just disappears down the proverbial black hole.

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I contacted Garmin UK by email first with full details (no reply) and then by telephone and got the same response - never heard of the problem.

Their problem logging and associated database must be non existent (or they just can't be bothered to check)

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RRLover, your kind words are appreciated when there seems to be no hope. I sent a reply, explaining the downgrade process, and gently asking for the information in the original message to be forwarded to engineering. I'm now waiting for the evil magic to break.

 

After 30 yr.s of railroading I've come to these (among others) conclusions :

 

Your damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

No good deed goes unpunished.

Murphy's law always takes precedence.

The flagellation will continue . . . until the moral improves.

"I used to be a glass half full kinda guy, . . . but I'm feeling MUCH better . . . now!"

(a pessimist has AT LEAST 50% less disappointment)

 

I hope the above brought a smile of mirth, and I'm wishing you luck, as you "endeavor to persevere"!

 

Norm

Edited by RRLover

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well i have the venture hc and when i was loading maps it said it was venture hc 2.70. is that right. and when i turn on my gps it says basemap 4.00. i still have the crapy topo from garmin that is way off on it's streets thow. :D

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I mailed both USA and UK Garmin support with the following mail.

 

Hello,

I have recently updated to software version 2.60 but its is serieously bugged.It causes gps fix and accuracy problems and altimeter malfunction.

As i read in the forums (Groundspeak-gpsinformation forum and others) i am not the only user with this problem and as i understand you have been notified for this big problem but you still deny it!

So because i am having serious problem - i have for example to turn on-off the unit to get the acuracy fixed and i cant have altitude readings except if i hardware reset the unit every time i start i hike(no no auto calibration doesn't work and if i manually calibrate then i get the same reading all the time)

PLEASE e- mail me the GPS SW version 2.50 because i cant find it(i found the software version 2.50) and i want to downgrade my unit because with the versions

2.50/2.50 it worked really fine (except of course the odometer bug wich by the way version 2.60 didn't correct it at all!)

This is my second garmin unit but now i am really disappointed.

You guys are supposed to be the LEADERS in gps market so i would expect from you faster reactions and better customer support.

The whole thing with the Vista HCX software problem seems to make you company a bad name and it's a pity.So react....

 

It's been a month or so but they don't respond....

Garmin support sucks if you ask me.

 

P.S I downgraded to 2.50/2.30 using the links found above and the accuracy problem is fixed.

I still have the problem with the altitude - any ideas what is happening?(the sensor works because i get accurate pressure readings.)

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The only suggestion I have with regard to the barometer is to make sure you have the unit set to measure altitude, not pressure. I don't remember the exact wording for the setting -- something about moving vs. fixed position?

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I sent an email and got somewhat of an acknowledgement that there's a problem. Still not a satisfactory response.

*********

 

My email:

 

Subject:

Accuracy is inconsistent

 

Message Body:

The position accuracy of my Vista HCx ramdomly changes considerably more

than what would be considered normal. It happens no matter if I'm in the

open or in tree cover. I've looked in different forums and there is

considerable documentation of this problem on the www.geocaching.com

website.

 

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?sh

owtopic=186593&st=150

 

I understand the Colorado models are having similar issues. Could you

please have someone of authority acknowledge the problem and assure

everyone that a fix is being worked on? From what I've read in the

forums, Garmin's excellent reputation is taking a beating on this one.

People's confidence in your products and tech support is dropping.

********************

The reply:

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

I am happy to help you with this. Garmin is aware of this issue and we

are constantly working to improve this limitation of the new high

sensitivity receivers but this is an issue with the technology rather

then with the design. The new receivers have a tendency to jump around a

bit more then the older models when stationary. If you were to compare

the old and new you would find the old would loose reception under heavy

canopy but the newer model would not. It is really a bit of a trade off

but the units still navigate you to the location regardless of the

accuracy which is just an estimate based on satellite geometry.

 

With Best Regards,

 

Larry Keegan

Product Support Specialist

Outdoor/Fitness Team

Garmin International

913-397-8200

800-800-1020

913-397-8282 (fax) Att: Larry Keegan

www.garmin.com

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I am happy to help you with this. Garmin is aware of this issue and we

are constantly working to improve this limitation of the new high

sensitivity receivers but this is an issue with the technology rather

then with the design. The new receivers have a tendency to jump around a

bit more then the older models when stationary. If you were to compare

the old and new you would find the old would loose reception under heavy

canopy but the newer model would not. It is really a bit of a trade off

but the units still navigate you to the location regardless of the

accuracy which is just an estimate based on satellite geometry.

 

This is how I interpret Garmin's response:

 

I've experienced the "location error" on my Colorado 400t and I was not stationary when the unit lost its mind. Yes, my 400t can go as fast as 1-2 mph while stationary :( , but the location problem this thread talks about is an entirely different beast that needs to be addressed on both the HCx & Colorado models.

 

When he mentions comparing "old with new", I seriously doubt he means to compare the 60/76CSx Sirf chipset with the HCx/Colorado MTK chipset. I haven't read where the older Sirf chipset experiences anywhere near the problem that the newer MTX chipset experiences. I have to read his response as referring to older receivers that don't have high-sensitivity chipsets, in which case his comparison means nothing.

 

I also don't buy the line about being able to navigate to your location regardless of EPE: a lot of times, I'm out bushwacking and would like to trace my exact steps back out. With the location error, the track that the 400t lays down cannot be trusted.

 

Garmin could have (apparently) delivered a much better product by sticking with Sirf.

 

J

Edited by jmedlock

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I have a Vista Hcx and have also regularly experienced the seemingly random, wide position errors. I can walk back and forth the same trail several times in the space of 20 or 30 minutes and have three out of four tracks reasonably close to one another and the fourth track can be as much as 50 or 60 feet off from the other three.

 

Since I'm retracing the same route, the reception conditions in terms of tree cover, multipath etc. should be very similar. All of the tracks are recorded with eight or 10 satellites available.

 

I'm glad to hear people are calling it to Garmin's attention. Returning to an earlier situation where the Trip Computer readings were essentially unuseable at hiking speeds it not a good solution. If we are a looking at a flawed hardware design, it may not be fixable with firmware upgrades.

 

Don

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Latest response: "I will forward you concern and see what I can do to research this a bit

more."

 

(RRLover: thanks. And long live the railways!)

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The only suggestion I have with regard to the barometer is to make sure you have the unit set to measure altitude, not pressure. I don't remember the exact wording for the setting -- something about moving vs. fixed position?

 

Well i measure altitude but look what happens;

1. If i hardware reset the unit and leave it to auto calibrate it works OK with average accuracy.

2. If i calibrate then to a known position during my hike then it works fine for the rest of the hike.

3. But if i stop the hike and then close the unit at a position lets say 1000 m and return to my town for example (or start another hike at a different altitude) and then power the unit again then it still shows 1000 m and it doesn't auto calibrate.

I have to hardware reset again or recalibrate with the known altitude and so on....

It seems like a bug to me and i don't know if other users experience it.

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FWIW, Ms. Imajeep got a Vista HCx in early May with firmware version 2.6 pre-installed. We haven't experienced any of the problems described in this thread. Accuracy is consistently about twenty feet, measured against USGS benchmarks. We do sometimes get a slightly greater inaccuracy against Topo US 2008, or US Nat Parks West, but we are satisfied the inaccuracy is with the maps, not the unit. Accuracy is about the same as my 60 CSx.

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*sigh* I have been trying to decide between a GPSMAP 60CSx and a Vista HCx. I was strongly leaning towards the HCx because it is nice and compact and about $80 cheaper. Considering a new unit is likely to come with new firmware, should I just go with the 60CSx? I'm leaving on a big trip in 2 weeks so i want to get one right away, not wait for a bug to be fixed. Is it possible this is just happening in a small % of units and I might get lucky?

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The only suggestion I have with regard to the barometer is to make sure you have the unit set to measure altitude, not pressure. I don't remember the exact wording for the setting -- something about moving vs. fixed position?

 

Well i measure altitude but look what happens;

1. If i hardware reset the unit and leave it to auto calibrate it works OK with average accuracy.

2. If i calibrate then to a known position during my hike then it works fine for the rest of the hike.

3. But if i stop the hike and then close the unit at a position lets say 1000 m and return to my town for example (or start another hike at a different altitude) and then power the unit again then it still shows 1000 m and it doesn't auto calibrate.

I have to hardware reset again or recalibrate with the known altitude and so on....

It seems like a bug to me and i don't know if other users experience it.

 

I recently hiked a route that climbed to just over 10,700 feet and the altitude calculated by the unit was within 5-10 feet of published figures. I then hiked back down to my car at 8,900 feet, turned the unit off and drove back to the house at 6,300 feet. Upon turning the unit back on at the house, the altitude remained at 8,900 feet and would not change until I recalibrated the unit.

 

So yes, I have experienced the same thing as you have described.

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The reply:

 

Thank you for contacting Garmin International.

 

I am happy to help you with this. Garmin is aware of this issue and we

are constantly working to improve this limitation of the new high

sensitivity receivers but this is an issue with the technology rather

then with the design. The new receivers have a tendency to jump around a

bit more then the older models when stationary. If you were to compare

the old and new you would find the old would loose reception under heavy

canopy but the newer model would not. It is really a bit of a trade off

but the units still navigate you to the location regardless of the

accuracy which is just an estimate based on satellite geometry.

 

With Best Regards,

 

This reply brings up a question and a couple of comments:

 

1) When he says "stationary" does he actually mean not moving at all or the fact that the unit is not designed to detect movement slower than 3 MPH...because I experience this issue while hiking not while it is sitting on a table

 

As for the comments:

 

My guess is that a majority of these hand held units are used in activities that involve low speeds. Therefore, I find it completely unacceptable that the chip Garmin choose to use is not suited for these types of activities. These units are faulty by design because Garmin choose the wrong chip manufacturer. I can only imagine that this decision was a financially based decision which makes this situation even more intolerable. I would have gladly paid more for a SIRF chip that is proven to be reliable. Instead, Garmin is going to profit from selling a faulty product. This is my first experience with Garmin (former Magellan supporter) and may very well be my last. I may consider exchanging this unit for the 60csx, but other than that I doubt I will be supporting Garmin in the future. Let's all hope that Delorme will wake Garmin up when they introduce the PN-40 this fall! Similar features, better compass, better maps, better customer service...what's not to like? Ohh...did I mention that Delorme uses a different chip manufacturer? It isn't the SIRF but at least it isn't the same piece of $#@% that Garmin is using in the Vista HCX.

Edited by TopherAC

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I recently hiked a route that climbed to just over 10,700 feet and the altitude calculated by the unit was within 5-10 feet of published figures. I then hiked back down to my car at 8,900 feet, turned the unit off and drove back to the house at 6,300 feet. Upon turning the unit back on at the house, the altitude remained at 8,900 feet and would not change until I recalibrated the unit.

 

So yes, I have experienced the same thing as you have described.

 

Well any ideas is this a bug ? or some kind of standard feature because for example the unit doesn't get pressure measurement's when it is off and so gets confused?

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but the units still navigate you to the location regardless of the

accuracy which is just an estimate based on satellite geometry.\

 

How could it possibly navigate me to my location if the GPS thinks it is 400 feet from where it actually is. Anybody ever find a micro cache when they got within 400 feet? Sure, I'll find my campsite and I'll be able to get back to my car, but should I really have to put up with these inaccuracies that doesn't exist with three year old technology (i.e. 60 CSX)? I promise....I am not bitter. I just think that Garmin is trying to blame the chip manufacturer instead of owning up to the problem and devoting the resources to fix it. Besides, if accuracy is good using version 2.30 and becomes very unreliable using version 2.60, how can this be a hardware issue? Sounds to me like they need some better software engineers.

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Well said, TopherAC. The Colorado seems to be aimed at geocachers (judging by the geocaching features). But that seems to be negated by the accuracy problems. Right now if I'm caching in woodland, I trust my 76CSx over my Colorado. And I originally bought the Colorado to REPLACE the 76. I wouldn't be surprised if some HCX owners here "upgraded" from a 60 or 76.

 

(Sorry, didn't mean to threadjack a HCX discussion, but the same thing is being discussed in the Colorado thread).

Edited by Crid

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I recently hiked a route that climbed to just over 10,700 feet and the altitude calculated by the unit was within 5-10 feet of published figures. I then hiked back down to my car at 8,900 feet, turned the unit off and drove back to the house at 6,300 feet. Upon turning the unit back on at the house, the altitude remained at 8,900 feet and would not change until I recalibrated the unit.

 

So yes, I have experienced the same thing as you have described.

 

I have this exact same problem: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...mp;hl=altimeter

 

I'm running 2.60.

 

I went around and around with Garmin via email until they told me to send it in for repair. I still haven't sent it in because I needed the unit for a trip. Not sure if I want to send it in because it might not get fixed. I wish they could just fix it with a firmware update.

 

I have a 60CS and it does not do this at all. Like everyone else, I'm also really disappointed with the HCx's odometer which is wildly inaccurate compared to my 60CS.

Edited by tnle2

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