+seaf20 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 (edited) I received this email from a cacher this morning... I understand his point but did he took the time to look at the big picture before he opened his mouth? i think not.... this is what i received: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Location: Rheinland-Pfalz, Germany > Die Geoparden posted a note for The Valve (Traditional Cache) at 2/25/2008 > > Log Date: 2/25/2008 > Hello seaf20, > first of all, I have to admit, I haven't visited your cache yet, so I can't say anything pro or against it. But there are several things I do not want to leave unanswered: First, YOU ARE YELLING AT PEOPLE! Second, you do not seem to understand the difference between coins and travel bugs on one side and regular trading items on the other. Coins are *not*, as well as travel bugs, regular trade items. In most cases, they have a mission their owners wish them to accomplish. So it is entirely acceptable to take them along with you *without* any trade-in item in exchange if you can help them to accomplish their mission. It is absolutely no down-trade to take a coin and put something in what you call "crap", quite the contrary. Third, it's not a coin that makes an ordinary cache a so-called "quality cache". Four: Your caches have been visited by cachers with thousands of finds and years of caching experience combined. You might think, they know what they are doing. By contrast, you have found zero caches yet. Maybe it's a good idea to find a hundred caches and take good look around. Five, it is hardly a threat to archive this cache [}] > Think about it! ***************************************************************************************** I know my reply sounds maybe more antagonizing than the original email but that's what happens when you antagonize my good intentions: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- well, you didn't had to get work up.... CAPS don't mean YELL, they just get ATTENTION, your bad if you feel yelled at my cache my rules (and i only did it because someone came to trade and did not leave a coin because he thought there was a coin in the cache (someone logged one but didn't leave or someone picked it up and didn't logged it out) but I THINK ITS UNFAIR, i understand SOME coins have specific missions, but MOST PEOPLE WITH COINS get their coins to trade and see them around I have 0 finds because this is a NEW account... not my former one i used in PR and the US so if you don't know [anything] (edited by moderator)... (you should know how the rest goes... you sound like you've heard this before a lot) dont' try to question the rules, although they are not official geocaching rules they are MY CACHEs RULES and as far as I am concerned my visitors have been very happy and none has complained whatsoever (so i guess to some degree they agree with the rules) and like its stated 'if you don't have a coin to TRADE don't take any coins' [personal attack removed by moderator] there are hundreds of caches out there for the regular missions... but THIS ONE specifically, is for trade. besides, geocaching.com encourages people to play the game in innovative ways (so far the rules are followed) and i decided to make this a coin trading point cache. (not meaning that you must leave a coin if you visit... but i want to clear up before you send me another email) with all the humbleness i can summon i'll say this, please don't visit my caches if you feel the way you portray yourself on the message and if you ever contact me again, instead of dropping an attack like that, ask questions, but don't antagonize me because all you're doing is giving people the wrong impression because i bet [edited by moderator] that you're not half what you sound like in the email, i met many cachers in the way and we're not like that. and archiving the cache is not a threat, its a warning... [personal attack removed by moderator] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- what do you think (make sure you read both arguments completely before making any comment) Edited February 26, 2008 by Keystone Quote Link to comment
+cataclysmcow Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 (edited) I understand his argument even though it's really beyond his business and he really needs to find another hobby if something like this boils his blood. I can see where you are coming from too and I agree with you, but you may want to consider one thing. If you apply additional rules to your cache it should not be labeled as a 'Traditional'. Any owner added ALRs, rules or stipulations make it a 'Unknown' cache by Groundspeak guidelines. I'm not saying that this is going to change that guys opinion, but I know when I roll up to a traditional I don't expect any additional requirements to the cache and I'd likely make the same mistake he did. Changing your cache type to 'Unknown' since it has additional requirements might help out future incidents. Edited February 26, 2008 by cataclysmcow Quote Link to comment
+webscouter. Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 If any of my coins are stuck in your cache I hope a cacher will move them out so they can travel regardless if they have a coin to put in its place. And since the coin belongs to me my rules take precedence over your rules. So if my coin is in your cache anyone can take it out without trade. Afraid I agree with the person who tried to let you know that this "rule" is generally frowned upon. If you want to see the general feeling about it do a search for travel bug prisons. In fact since you posted your cache here don't be surprised to see a bookmark list show up on your cache page that shows it as a prison. Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I'm moving your thread from the Geocaching Topics forum to the Geocoins Discussion forum, since your cache places a trading restriction on Geocoins. I hope that Geocoin enthusiasts provide you with additional feedback about your coin prison. Please don't say that Geocaching.com encourages prison caches for trackables. They don't. As the cache owner you can set up this trading rule but that does not mean it's officially sanctioned. In fact, a reviewer would be within their rights to refuse to publish your cache as a traditional cache and instead ask you to change it to a mystery/unknown cache due to the special requirement. Finally, if you cannot post in the forums and use the Geocaching.com e-mail system without resorting to potty language and personal attacks, don't bother writing. Quote Link to comment
Motorcycle_Mama Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 To the OP, you, in my opinion, are wrong. First of all, repeated use of ALL CAPS is considered yelling on the internet. Brief usage might be okay, but extensive usage is yelling. It's also difficult for most people to read. Second, you as the cache owner do not control the TB and coins. As stating in the first message you quoted, the owners of those items set the rules for them. You also don't get to determine who visits your caches. And if your cache has additional rules, I would hope that you follow the rules and make it a mystery cache and not a traditional cache. And, no offense, but your credibility is severely diminished when you put stuff in your post that has to be edited out by a moderator. Adults should be able to have intelligent discussions without resorting to personal attacks. Quote Link to comment
+Eartha Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 FYI: On the internet, ALL CAPS IS CONSIDERED YELLING. Travel bugs are not trade items, one does not need to leave one to take one, see the logging instructions posted here. Caches with rules like that become what is known as a Travel Bug Prisons and there are plenty of threads in the forums about how people feel about it. The general consensus is it's wrong, there should be no trade a bug for a bug rules at all. Travel bugs and geocoins are game pieces within a game, and are not bound by any cache rules, and you will find that when you have rules, people will come and clean out the cache just to get them moving. You're reply to this person was more of an attack than his post. And I didn't even see it before it was edited. I think you may be able to tell now, by the responses that you've seen here, that the rules on your cache are wrong, and not what the community would like to see. However, the good news is, you have the power to edit your cache page. Here is another recent thread on the subject. Quote Link to comment
+ScoutingWV Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 If any of my coins are stuck in your cache I hope a cacher will move them out so they can travel regardless if they have a coin to put in its place. And since the coin belongs to me my rules take precedence over your rules. So if my coin is in your cache anyone can take it out without trade. Afraid I agree with the person who tried to let you know that this "rule" is generally frowned upon. If you want to see the general feeling about it do a search for travel bug prisons. In fact since you posted your cache here don't be surprised to see a bookmark list show up on your cache page that shows it as a prison. Ditto. If I release a coin to travel then it's just like a travel bug. If I want to trade my coins, I'll do it in a way other than through a cache container. And yes, using all caps on a web page or email is considered yelling. Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 FYI: On the internet, ALL CAPS IS CONSIDERED YELLING. Travel bugs are not trade items, one does not need to leave one to take one, see the logging instructions posted here. Caches with rules like that become what is known as a Travel Bug Prisons and there are plenty of threads in the forums about how people feel about it. The general consensus is it's wrong, there should be no trade a bug for a bug rules at all. Travel bugs and geocoins are game pieces within a game, and are not bound by any cache rules, and you will find that when you have rules, people will come and clean out the cache just to get them moving. You're reply to this person was more of an attack than his post. And I didn't even see it before it was edited. I think you may be able to tell now, by the responses that you've seen here, that the rules on your cache are wrong, and not what the community would like to see. However, the good news is, you have the power to edit your cache page. Here is another recent thread on the subject. I echo all of what has been said and ask that you seriously consider the advice given by Eartha here...correct your mistake. Welcome to the forums...you might get further w/o the attitude displayed in your response!! The person who wrote you likely wasn't trying to be mean or anything but trying to be HELPFUL...try listening and thinking before reacting in the future! Quote Link to comment
+seaf20 Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 aparently my english is terrible, people read too fast or simply can't read..... 1) I wasn't born in 1995 to think and assume CAPS are yelling... my hand writing is small and i write in caps and never had a problem with either. besides who looses his patience over the internet that (NEEDS?) to scream??? (so i am wrong because the generation after mine say CAPS in the internet are screams??? fine) 2) I DO NOT control the TB or COINS but I do control MY cache and I apply rules (if i shouldn't have listed it as a "traditional" cache then, my bad and i will fix it but to my understanding a regular container with a log, and trading items is a traditional cache) 3) I DO NOT determine who visits but I expect visitors to follow the instructions (or do you go to court in shorts? i doubt it... so you follow the rules) 4) I forgot to edit the post and already apologized to the moderator. 5) I NEVER said that geocaching encourages "prisons" but i do remember in the rules that I can make variations (and that's what i said by "geocaching.com encourages...") of the game and that is encouraged, so i did a *variation* (and this is why i say people should read and understand what they are reading so they don't attack on their misunderstandings) 6) I didn't typed most of it but copy/paste and i intended to edit it before sending it. 7) if y=one of your coins are in my cache is because a) you agreed to the note on the cache and dropped it or someone left it and picked up another one and the next cacher WILL do the same.... your coin won't be there any longer than in any other cache... WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT? (i don't see your logic behind the coin staying there...) 8) and the rest i won't bother because if blood that you carry in your body once leaves the body does not belongs to you anymore (LEGALLY) what more value has a coin? So i suppose a coin in someones pocket while it travels from cache to cache is more important than making a cacher happy with a find (WHICH BY THE WAY WILL TRAVEL AS ANY OTHER COIN) will you guys think about this for 24 hours before you reply? that way that assures me some grade of conffidence that you guys will really read and take the time to understand instead of jumping to the reply button and start complaining about nothing.... regardless of what cache you drop it ITS IN THERE UNTILL SOMEONE PICS IT UP, OR WORSE, TILL THEY DECIDE TO DROP IT if they don't steal the coin like it happened to me before and thus why i made the rule. and whoever mentioned the TBs... read the log first, you'll find that I said that TB are TBs and they should Travel so no rules for them.... first get the big picture before you talk or you'll simply look like an ignorant. Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Many of us have been thinking about this issue for years. I don't need 24 hours to decide my position on travel bug prisons and geocoin jails. It is unlikely that my position, or Geocaching.com's position, will change in the next 24 hours. Nobody can be so amusingly arrogant as a young man who has just discovered an old idea and thinks it is his own. -- Sydney Harris Quote Link to comment
+seaf20 Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 i've been a loner for many years and i am very contempt. i don't approach people, if i see something i don't like i look away AND I EXPECT TO BE TREATED THE SAME i never send anyone in gc.com a message before since i am a member until today that i get this person complaining about a cache he has not taken the time to visit... on top of that the message was an attack or other wise it wouldn't had a little devil's icon at the end I posted the message i received to share it and see the response of others to that matter and all people are saying is about the darn CAPS... the issue wasn't the caps, but i guess is to much to ask from humanity, that's why i lost faith in it so long ago if you don't like my caches, don't visit them, the people who have visited and logged a FIND have been VERY HAPPY with the cache... before you say anything about a cache make sure you've visit it first... or are you guys psychic and can even review books without reading them too???? Quote Link to comment
+webscouter. Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 aparently my english is terrible, people read too fast or simply can't read..... 1) I wasn't born in 1995 to think and assume CAPS are yelling... my hand writing is small and i write in caps and never had a problem with either. besides who looses his patience over the internet that (NEEDS?) to scream??? (so i am wrong because the generation after mine say CAPS in the internet are screams??? fine) 2) I DO NOT control the TB or COINS but I do control MY cache and I apply rules (if i shouldn't have listed it as a "traditional" cache then, my bad and i will fix it but to my understanding a regular container with a log, and trading items is a traditional cache) 3) I DO NOT determine who visits but I expect visitors to follow the instructions (or do you go to court in shorts? i doubt it... so you follow the rules) 4) I forgot to edit the post and already apologized to the moderator. 5) I NEVER said that geocaching encourages "prisons" but i do remember in the rules that I can make variations (and that's what i said by "geocaching.com encourages...") of the game and that is encouraged, so i did a *variation* (and this is why i say people should read and understand what they are reading so they don't attack on their misunderstandings) 6) I didn't typed most of it but copy/paste and i intended to edit it before sending it. 7) if y=one of your coins are in my cache is because a) you agreed to the note on the cache and dropped it or someone left it and picked up another one and the next cacher WILL do the same.... your coin won't be there any longer than in any other cache... WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT? (i don't see your logic behind the coin staying there...) 8) and the rest i won't bother because if blood that you carry in your body once leaves the body does not belongs to you anymore (LEGALLY) what more value has a coin? So i suppose a coin in someones pocket while it travels from cache to cache is more important than making a cacher happy with a find (WHICH BY THE WAY WILL TRAVEL AS ANY OTHER COIN) will you guys think about this for 24 hours before you reply? that way that assures me some grade of conffidence that you guys will really read and take the time to understand instead of jumping to the reply button and start complaining about nothing.... regardless of what cache you drop it ITS IN THERE UNTILL SOMEONE PICS IT UP, OR WORSE, TILL THEY DECIDE TO DROP IT if they don't steal the coin like it happened to me before and thus why i made the rule. and whoever mentioned the TBs... read the log first, you'll find that I said that TB are TBs and they should Travel so no rules for them.... first get the big picture before you talk or you'll simply look like an ignorant. Wow!!! You have two Groundspeak volunteers tell you that this practice is not generally acceptable You have several long time members say that the practice in not generally acceptable and point you to recent threads that show that we have discussed and thought about this for a long time. And then you ignore your own good advice here first get the big picture before you talk or you'll simply look like an ignorant. As far as I am concerned my coins are a special type of travel bug. They are trackable on the same page and have a tracking number on them. SET THE COINS FREE!!!!! Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 (edited) aparently my english is terrible, people read too fast or simply can't read..... 1) I wasn't born in 1995 to think and assume CAPS are yelling... my hand writing is small and i write in caps and never had a problem with either. besides who looses his patience over the internet that (NEEDS?) to scream??? (so i am wrong because the generation after mine say CAPS in the internet are screams??? fine) 2) I DO NOT control the TB or COINS but I do control MY cache and I apply rules (if i shouldn't have listed it as a "traditional" cache then, my bad and i will fix it but to my understanding a regular container with a log, and trading items is a traditional cache) 3) I DO NOT determine who visits but I expect visitors to follow the instructions (or do you go to court in shorts? i doubt it... so you follow the rules) 4) I forgot to edit the post and already apologized to the moderator. 5) I NEVER said that geocaching encourages "prisons" but i do remember in the rules that I can make variations (and that's what i said by "geocaching.com encourages...") of the game and that is encouraged, so i did a *variation* (and this is why i say people should read and understand what they are reading so they don't attack on their misunderstandings) 6) I didn't typed most of it but copy/paste and i intended to edit it before sending it. 7) if y=one of your coins are in my cache is because a) you agreed to the note on the cache and dropped it or someone left it and picked up another one and the next cacher WILL do the same.... your coin won't be there any longer than in any other cache... WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT? (i don't see your logic behind the coin staying there...) 8) and the rest i won't bother because if blood that you carry in your body once leaves the body does not belongs to you anymore (LEGALLY) what more value has a coin? So i suppose a coin in someones pocket while it travels from cache to cache is more important than making a cacher happy with a find (WHICH BY THE WAY WILL TRAVEL AS ANY OTHER COIN) will you guys think about this for 24 hours before you reply? that way that assures me some grade of conffidence that you guys will really read and take the time to understand instead of jumping to the reply button and start complaining about nothing.... regardless of what cache you drop it ITS IN THERE UNTILL SOMEONE PICS IT UP, OR WORSE, TILL THEY DECIDE TO DROP IT if they don't steal the coin like it happened to me before and thus why i made the rule. and whoever mentioned the TBs... read the log first, you'll find that I said that TB are TBs and they should Travel so no rules for them.... first get the big picture before you talk or you'll simply look like an ignorant. Sorry, don't need 24 hours. You are putting restrictions on an item YOU don't own. You own the cache and that's IT! If you place those rules on your cache, I will be more than happy to label it just what it is...a PRISON (if the label hasn't already been added to your cache page, don't be surprised if it shows up)! If I own my coin or TB, what makes you think you can keep it hostage in your cache by making people trade evenly (and how would you propose to make people do this anyway??). You are VERY confrontational....got a bad attitude going on?? Maybe you should stop and read what has been posted...maybe take 24 hours and THINK about what has been said. Maybe you should take the advice given and read the links provided...you OBVIOUSLY don't understaand the TB/coin concept! And, yes, ALL CAPS IS YELLING...DO YOU LIKE TO BE YELLED AT?? IS THIS THE WAY YOU SEE OTHERS TYPE THEIR RESPONSES? Born in 1995? what has that to do with anything? My son is all of 15 but has the sense to use proper internet etiquette! Edited February 26, 2008 by Rockin Roddy Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 i've been a loner for many years and i am very contempt. i don't approach people, if i see something i don't like i look away AND I EXPECT TO BE TREATED THE SAME i never send anyone in gc.com a message before since i am a member until today that i get this person complaining about a cache he has not taken the time to visit... on top of that the message was an attack or other wise it wouldn't had a little devil's icon at the end I posted the message i received to share it and see the response of others to that matter and all people are saying is about the darn CAPS... the issue wasn't the caps, but i guess is to much to ask from humanity, that's why i lost faith in it so long ago if you don't like my caches, don't visit them, the people who have visited and logged a FIND have been VERY HAPPY with the cache... before you say anything about a cache make sure you've visit it first... or are you guys psychic and can even review books without reading them too???? You seem to miss the point which is NOT about your cache as much as MY (or anyone else's) TB/coins. Your powers to regulate what goes in/out of the cache ends with the SWAG...TBs/coins AREN'T swag, they are owned by someone else. Imagine the TB/coin as a car and your cache a parking lot. I pull in and park, do my business and come back to get my car. While I'm gone, you can't tell me to go out and steal another car so I can take MY car home...sorry! AND, you CAN tell a book by it's cover just as you can tell a cache by it's page. Not rocket science to see why sooo many would be upset about your "rules"! Quote Link to comment
+mousekakat Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Rod, some things just aren't worth the effort...I do believe that this cacher falls under that category I mean, us old folks apparently don't know jack skit (poop in Swedish ) and are totally wrong...this little whippersnapper apparently knows better! Naomi :D Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I sent you a FRIENDLY pm...a message screen should pop up on your screen soon. Click the message and please read it, I am trying to be a helpful friend here! Good luck! Nah Naomi, I just think this guy got upset about a message and feels all are against him. Hopefully he'll read my pm with an open mind and calm down a bit!! It's all good! Quote Link to comment
+Steinwälzer Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 (edited) I had a look at your cache. And first let me say thank you very much for adding a German description! (I guess it was made by automatic translation because it is somewhat strange, for example it says that you have stolen the Micro cache.... but the fact alone that you have provided the description in another language is a good thing. Not all Germans understand English, especially older Cachers didn't learn it at school. If you want me to help you with that, you can contact me, but I will not translate anything about the coin trading thing). But I have to agree with the others about the coin trading thing. I want my coins to be moved along. Coins are no trade items. They can be taken and left without being exchanged for anything. When I have a coin with me I might exchange it with another coin I take from a cache. But if I feel that the cache is not safe or not visited often enough I just take the coin(s) with me. Or I drop more than one coin in a cache if I think that they will be retrieved soon and the cache is safe for them. Two things are important for me when moving a coin along: if I can help the coin with its mission (give it some miles, and if it has a special mission, help it with this one too), and give it a place to wait for the next cacher where it is safe and will not wait for too long to be retrieved again (for example no 5/5 caches, and no caches which are regulary muggled). I ignore rules from cache owners. Edited February 26, 2008 by Steinwälzer Quote Link to comment
+AtlantaGal Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 (edited) Activated geocoins are not cache swag and should never be treated like a required trade item in any cache. Edited February 26, 2008 by AtlantaGal Quote Link to comment
+Eartha Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Has the term Groundspeak Volunteer escaped you? Both Keystone and I have been telling you how the community feels, and how Geocaching.com feels about travel bug prisons, and it's one of those things that is not encouraged. It's not a new idea, people have tried it, people don't like it, and their views on this subject have been discussed for years. There is a big difference between a TB hotel and TB prison. The difference is "hospitality" and "solitary confinement". Please note the little line under our avatars, that kind of tells you that we know of what we speak. You see, we read these forums, we read them a lot, and we know how people feel about this. This is not about the CAPS (although you are still yelling at us, and I'm no spring chicken, and I know it's considered yelling) it is about the cache requirements. You will not find a whole lot of people to agree with you. It's a simple matter of editing the cache page, and I guarantee you, if it is a good Travel Bug HOTEL (read: not prison) it will still get the same activity, if not better. As far as people taking a bug, and leaving an item, that's called trading up, because they are leaving a trade item, and not taking trade item. Travel bugs and coins are not trade items. So your cache should be well stocked. There is no difference between a traveling travel bug and traveling geocoin. They are both meant to travel in the same manner. Whatever the trackable's goal might be, is what should be followed. Don't be surprised if you get a visit from this travel bug. Quote Link to comment
+Steinwälzer Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 If you want a coin in your cache, one thing that is quite common in Germany is to put a laminated copy of your favorite coin into the cache and write into the description that the coin should remain in the cache and that it may only discovered by the cachers who found it. Works quite well. You have always an icon for a coin in your description, Icon hunters can get the icon, people who don't care just ignore it, and real coins can travel like they should do. Quote Link to comment
+Clarkbowman Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Rules, Don't take a coin unless you leave a coin, Translates into Take all of the coins and leave a handful of nothing. FREEEEEEEE THE COINS And yes that is in CAPS Quote Link to comment
+kdv Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I think the OP started with the agression calling swag people leave in his cache 'random crap'. I don't know if 41 is old enough, but I also consider USING CAPS to be yelling. Does the word 'convention' ring a bell? It's when the vast majority of a community applies a specific meaning to something. CAPS=YELLING is a long standing convention of the whole internet community. Also I don't like how the OP mentions that he had planned to edit out the bad language the mod has removed for him. I don't think that a 'pimped up' version of the mail he sent would have given a fair idea of the whole exchange. I believe the person who posted the note was simply trying to be helpful and had nothing to gain from it (except to try and improve geocaching practices world wide). I see his note has been removed, but if I were the OP I would remove a lot of other things from the cache page if I was worried that I might look bad. Nobody has added a PRISON bookmark to the page yet (the cache is GC198K6). The cache is also still a traditional and not an unknown/mystery cache (which it should be if the OP applies this ALR). If I were in the neighborhood, I'd be happy to drop by and violate the coin swap rule, so the cache would get archived Quote Link to comment
+Nachtraaf Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 (edited) OMG... Aren't you guys getting tired of holding this type of discussions over and over again...? This <edited by moderator> needs his own revolution by not following rules... I am pretty sure he didn't read them when signing up for the member program, but he just tick the box "accept terms and conditions". He needs attention...don't give it, he will rest his case much faster. For fellow geocachers, one advice: if you visit his cache, follow the rules: grab trackables and let them travel. That's what they are meant for. My 2 cent... Regards, weedboer <moderator note: Please remember the guidelines call for respect in these forums> Edited February 26, 2008 by Eartha Quote Link to comment
Highland Geofairy Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Nobody really likes to be criticized, but constructive criticism is useful and you have been given it here in heaps. Take a step back, do some deep breathing and relax. The concensus of opinion tells you that caches with ALR such as yours are not welcome. Writing in capitals has always been considered as shouting, look at any forum guideline notes, look anywhere on the internet about etiquette and you will see that this is so. Occassional use of caps is sometimes used for emphasis, but it is not really necessary if one has expressed oneself clearly. It is sometimes harder to admit one is in the wrong, taking a stance in the belief that you are right and everyone else is in the wrong achieves nothing. I would strongly suggest you remove the additional logging requirements on your cache, if you want to see coins in your cache put your own in there, and state that their mission is to remain in the cache for visitors to discover and enjoy. That to me would seem to be a good compromise all round. Quote Link to comment
Maine Family Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 When I go to a regular cache and it has a geocoin or TB I trade because the next person might get there before I get home to log it as taken and I don't like to see someone disappointed. So I leave one in its place. But a cache that is for geocoins and TB's I don't. When a cache says it is a one for one trade and it is their cache and their rules it does make it a prison. Some sit there a long time because I for one don't want to see one of mine or anyone elses stuck there until someone else is willing to give up one. A lot of people write please don't place me in a geocoin or TB cache but it still happens. It is your cache and your rules so I have a question. Why do you need to have geocoins and TB's there? Do you go discover them for numbers.? How many of yours are in it? If you want to put restrictions on geocoins then when a coin sits there take some of your own there and trade them to get them moving because the owners of such caches really do get upset when someone goes and just moves them. Why do you want to put restrictions on geocoins? Maybe if an owner of such caches could help us understand why this is so important to them maybe it would change peoples mind. But just saying it is my cache and my rule isn't going to. Makes me kind of suspicious. Quote Link to comment
+va griz Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 You sound as if you can't understand why your rule would restrict coin movement. The simple reason is a lot of folks abide by the cache owners wishes and will leave the coin there even if they could help it move along as the coin owner would want. So yes, a rule restrciting coin movement to trading will restrict coin movement. And this: on top of that the message was an attack or other wise it wouldn't had a little devil's icon at the end has me puzzled. A smilie is a devil's icon? Quote Link to comment
+sbell111 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 i've been a loner for many years and i am very contempt. ...I'm not sure that this is what you meant to post. I agree with it, but I think you might have meant something else. Quote Link to comment
+GATOULIS Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 FYI: On the internet, ALL CAPS IS CONSIDERED YELLING. Travel bugs are not trade items, one does not need to leave one to take one, see the logging instructions posted here. Caches with rules like that become what is known as a Travel Bug Prisons and there are plenty of threads in the forums about how people feel about it. The general consensus is it's wrong, there should be no trade a bug for a bug rules at all. Travel bugs and geocoins are game pieces within a game, and are not bound by any cache rules, and you will find that when you have rules, people will come and clean out the cache just to get them moving. You're reply to this person was more of an attack than his post. And I didn't even see it before it was edited. I think you may be able to tell now, by the responses that you've seen here, that the rules on your cache are wrong, and not what the community would like to see. However, the good news is, you have the power to edit your cache page. Here is another recent thread on the subject. Hello Eartha! Oups! I did not know the caps is considered Yelling too! when I made an acount here, I placed all my info in caps! even my code name is in caps! Is that rude? How can I change that and even my codename look ok? I am not yelling for sure! Since my codename is male kitten in greek language, I am not yelling...I am only saying.. miaow!!! Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Gatoulis, you can change your profile with the edit button, but it could be a bit of a chore if you wrote a long one! As for teh name, no biggie, but you can get that changed by asking GS for help!! I'm sure someone can give you the link or addy! Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 2) I DO NOT control the TB or COINS but I do control MY cache and I apply rules (if i shouldn't have listed it as a "traditional" cache then, my bad and i will fix it but to my understanding a regular container with a log, and trading items is a traditional cache) first get the big picture before you talk or you'll simply look like an ignorant. Travelers are not trade items and no one has any business trying to decide who can and who cannot move my bug. I paid for them, I released them, and just because they ended up in your cache doesn't give you the right to say it can't be moved until another traveler replaces it. Quote Link to comment
+GATOULIS Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Thank you my friend! I already changed my profile, into small letters, I had to cahnge verification cade too! I still do not know how to change my code name, without lose my finds etc! :-) Quote Link to comment
+MustangJoni Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Thank you my friend! I already changed my profile, into small letters, I had to cahnge verification cade too! I still do not know how to change my code name, without lose my finds etc! :-) I wouldn't worry about your name. If I see a name in all caps, I don't really think of it as yelling. But statements and such, I do. Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Thank you my friend! I already changed my profile, into small letters, I had to cahnge verification cade too! I still do not know how to change my code name, without lose my finds etc! :-) Your name looks fine to me, I wouldn't worry about it!! Quote Link to comment
+redtech Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Forgive me... I'm new. Isn't what he's doing called a travelbug hotel? ... except with coins. thanks Quote Link to comment
+Marky Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 seaf20, Regardless of what restrictions you put on your cache, travelbugs and geocoins are not trade items, so it is perfectly fine to take them without leaving anything. Most cachers know this, so what you are asking is outside of the norm. A lot of people find traditional caches without reading the cache description, so you can't expect them to know about your extra rules. You should ask your local approver to change the cache type to Unknown, so people will read the cache page and know that there are extra logging requirements. Regarding your restrictions, I don't agree with them, so I wouldn't go for your cache that had these restrictions on them. I might consider visiting your cache and freeing all the prisoned travelbugs and geocoins, and not log a find. That's what I'd want someone to do if one of my travelbugs or geocoins got jailed in one of your caches. Kind regards, --Marky Quote Link to comment
+Marky Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Isn't what he's doing called a travelbug hotel? ... except with coins. With a hotel, guests can check in and out anytime. If you place restrictions on when you can check out, that is a jail, not a hotel. Quote Link to comment
+GEO*Trailblazer 1 Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 I learned fast CAPS are yelling. I don't yell so it hit me hard to find out and very seldom use caps in forums. I have freed some from these Travel Bug Prisions. I do not like them either. And some things are lost in translation but I get your point very well. I think you need to listen to what the majority says about this topic. Moderators,Geocachers and newbies and of course us Old people. Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 IF I FIND OUT SOME INCONSIDERATE CACHER DO THAT AGAIN I WILL ARCHIVE THE CACHE. hmmm, Quote Link to comment
avroair Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 dont' try to question the rules, although they are not official geocaching rules they are MY CACHEs RULES and as far as I am concerned my visitors have been very happy and none has complained whatsoever (so i guess to some degree they agree with the rules) If I ever found your cache, I would release all the imprisoned travel bugs and coins and set them free... go forth little ones for you are now free! IF I FIND OUT SOME INCONSIDERATE CACHER DO THAT AGAIN I WILL ARCHIVE THE CACHE. How about saving a person a trip and doing that now? Quote Link to comment
+BilLow Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 By the logic of the original poster it would seem to follow that any travel bug or Geocoin you pick up in a cache could now be considered your own property… hmmm – come on, even language and generation differences can’t qualify this kind of false reasoning. I suppose that everyone now and in the future will need to note on *their* coin’s page a specific list of caches where we don’t want the coins placed because the owner of the cache would then have dominion and authority over them. Please don’t place my personal property in ________ cache, because the owner then believes it belongs to him. Quote Link to comment
+wutzebear Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 hmmm, Sorry, 50km to far away. Quote Link to comment
+LadyBee4T Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 7) if y=one of your coins are in my cache is because a) you agreed to the note on the cache and dropped it or someone left it and picked up another one and the next cacher WILL do the same.... your coin won't be there any longer than in any other cache... WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT? (i don't see your logic behind the coin staying there...) Lets say I drop a coin in your cache and the next day a cacher comes along who could help it on its mission BUT (caps for emphasis) he doesn't have a coin to trade for it so he leaves it there. That means that the coin has been there longer than it would have without your restriction first get the big picture before you talk or you'll simply look like an ignorant. Take your own advice here. Quote Link to comment
Motorcycle_Mama Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 ... snip 2) I DO NOT control the TB or COINS but I do control MY cache and I apply rules (if i shouldn't have listed it as a "traditional" cache then, my bad and i will fix it but to my understanding a regular container with a log, and trading items is a traditional cache) For your information, here's a link to the Geocaching Listing Requirements/Guidelines that you agreed to when you placed your cache. Mystery or Puzzle Caches Caches with mandatory requirements in addition to signing the logbook should be listed as mystery caches. Examples include sending the cache owner a verification codeword found inside the logbook, performing some task at the cache location and taking a photograph, or writing the online log in a format or with content that satisfies the cache requirements. The mystery cache designation assists finders in identifying that something extra is required in order to log a find. ... snip first get the big picture before you talk or you'll simply look like an ignorant. Good advice. Quote Link to comment
+tozainamboku Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 (edited) 7) if y=one of your coins are in my cache is because a) you agreed to the note on the cache and dropped it or someone left it and picked up another one and the next cacher WILL do the same.... your coin won't be there any longer than in any other cache... WHY WOULD YOU THINK THAT? (i don't see your logic behind the coin staying there...) Clearly requiring leave a coin to take a coin causes a coin to remain in the cache longer. If a geocacher without a coin finds your cache and could've move the coin to help it on it's goal, he would have to leave the coin and it would sit there waiting till someone with a coin to trade finds your cache. I don't see why you have trouble understanding that. 8) and the rest i won't bother because if blood that you carry in your body once leaves the body does not belongs to you anymore (LEGALLY) what more value has a coin? So i suppose a coin in someones pocket while it travels from cache to cache is more important than making a cacher happy with a find (WHICH BY THE WAY WILL TRAVEL AS ANY OTHER COIN) I agree, the coin and travel bug community has way to much of an attitude about controlling the coins and travel bug they have put out. Once they have put a coin or travel bug in cache they have no control over it. It could be stolen or lost; it could sit in a cache for a long time; it could sit with a cacher for a long time; it could travel to a place that is further from it goal. Cache owners who put rules for trading coins and bugs is just one more thing that coin and bug owners have no control over. Coin and travel bug owners have invented this concept that coins and travel bugs are not for trading and foisted it on the geocaching community as it it is some official rule. It seem reasonable for various reasons to assume that part of the goal of every travel bug or geocoin is to move and therefore the idea that a trade isn't required is clearly going to help with this goal. However cache owners have a conflicting interest, that being that people trade fairly to keep their cache well stocked. If a cache owner puts out a cache with some geocoins in it and the first cacher who comes along takes all the coins and leaves the cache empty for the next cacher, is this any more "right" than a geocoin prison. I would suggest that people who want to take a coin or travel bug from a cache should trade for it when possible - not necessarily one coin per coin, but leave some nice swag for the next cacher. Edited February 26, 2008 by tozainamboku Quote Link to comment
+GATOULIS Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Thank you my friend! I already changed my profile, into small letters, I had to cahnge verification cade too! I still do not know how to change my code name, without lose my finds etc! :-) Your name looks fine to me, I wouldn't worry about it!! Thank you my friends for your posts! So... if it is ok like that, I will keep it! Ladybee4T, thank you for your kind message!!! Quote Link to comment
R/GBOTS Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 This argument has been done to death, and there is no point in arguing it again with this person. See this log by seaf20: February 9 by seaf20 (0 found) [got stolen...] many muggles (kids) in the area... please, get neutered, too many kids in the world! [view this log on a separate page] Quote Link to comment
avroair Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 It seem reasonable for various reasons to assume that part of the goal of every travel bug or geocoin is to move This has been argued ever since travel bugs have been in existence, and 90% of geocachers out there agree travel bugs should move. It's the sad minority that think they are more important than the community at large. Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 (edited) Ah, so it's the bug community trying to control the bugs and foisting rules, silly me. I could have sworn it was the cache trade restrictions Trade restrictions do not help travel bugs move, they do not help other cacher's find bugs, (they can't take the one until they go find one in another cache), and they go against the whole idea easy access to bugs which is the purpose of a hotel. (Notice: when I say bugs I mean travelers, coins etc.) Edited February 26, 2008 by BlueDeuce Quote Link to comment
+Driver Carries Cache Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 1. CAPS ON THE INTERNET IS SCREAMING. It doesn't matter how old you are, it's just obnoxious. 2. Coins without a tracking number are for trading. Those with a tracking number are travelers. Travelers do not require a trade. I for one encourage cachers to empty out these bug/coin prisons and get the travelers moving again. Extra rules set up by individuals to hinder the travel of bugs/coins should be willfully (and merrily) ignored. DCC Quote Link to comment
+Rockin Roddy Posted February 26, 2008 Share Posted February 26, 2008 Here's the response I got from the OP.... i appreciate you taking tyhe time to write a formal response. I understand perfectly the point that people want to see their coins travel, i know most cachers carry multiple coins so that's no problem because whoever comes to my cache probably has a coin to trade... the problem lies when people come to the cache and they log that they leave coins and they really didn't leave anything, then the next cacher comes along hoping to see that coin there and when he don't find a coin i receive messages saying there are no coins and that i should give maintenance (but the cache is in my backyard so everytime i see a new log i walk outside and check it so i know it does not needs maintenance) another reason is that i got a cache stolen from close by and this way having a coin in the cache helps ME track who's come by who has left what and since there shold always be a coin in the cache the day it goes missing its easier to see who might got it because i know nobody likes to have their coins stolen but if i try to explain all this in the caches log nobody will ever finish reading it... people just see a prison... it is not its not even a hotel like others like to call it its a method to keep track of the actual cachers and to prevent them from being stolen. now if you would do me a favor and try to explain this to the rest because i'm not even going to bother going on the forums again. i will highly appreciate it. and again thanks for taking your time and talking to in a formal way and as a human being. if everyone would take the time, like you... Quote Link to comment
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