Underwater cache in cold climates.

4k · February 22, 2008

What should be done about underwater caches in colder climates?

If an owner doesn't want to give away the location (underwater) in the description, what should be done in times where the water is frozen?

Should it be marked as disabled?

February 22, 2008

well if its in the middle of a lake and someone uses google maps there going to see that theres no land there so eventually it will be known that the cache is underwater. during winter i would disable it so no one goes and kills them self due to the weather.

February 22, 2008

Greetings

how about a photo log cache to prove the find.

Regards

Uminski

2.5k · February 22, 2008

I'd like more info, please.

Is it your cache? If not, what does the owner think?

Is it still do-able when iced under?

Does it require diving when it isn't frozen?

...and if so, Would I be allowed to cut the ice if I wanted to go after it in proper cold water dive gear?

You say the owner doesn't want to "give away" the fact that it's under water, but how could you hide the fact that it's under water once a person gets to the area anyway? I don't get that part at all.

2.8k · February 22, 2008

You say the owner doesn't want to "give away" the fact that it's under water, but how could you hide the fact that it's under water once a person gets to the area anyway? I don't get that part at all.

Could it be that the cache is puzzle, so the seeker would not know the location is under water until the puzzle is solved. By disabling it, it could tip off a seeker of it's whereabouts without solving the puzzle.

4k · February 22, 2008

We are planning an underwater cache. (I blew that for the locals....ugh!)

It is in a small pond where the coords would not necessarily mean that it was underwater or in the dry area around the pond.

Depending on the thickness of the ice, i am assuming that sure it would be possible, but very difficult. So basically it would not be available when the ice is at 1/4" thick or more

No diving required. Maybe some wading, i am not sure as the pond is still iced over and we have not got any exact specifics. Still in the research stages.

I was thinking that the only way to know it was underwater was too make the difficulty higher, although i am unsure how high as i have not checked the clayjar ratings.

I seem to find that caches are within 30' of what my GPS says. This pond is so small it could easily be in the water or around the water as there are potential hiding places around the pond. The pond is frozen over now. I don't want to cause cachers any undue trouble or trips. At the same time i dont want to wrap camo duct tape on film can and chuck it into a nearby hole. (Too many of those already.) It needs to be at least a nice area or interesting hide. Preferably both.

February 22, 2008

well if its in the middle of a lake and someone uses google maps there going to see that theres no land there so eventually it will be known that the cache is underwater. during winter i would disable it so no one goes and kills them self due to the weather.

Come on, let's not do away with the law of Natural Selection!!!!!

1.8k · February 22, 2008

Just up the difficulty in winter. If the pond is really frozen over, some enterprising cacher might even put an ice shanty over it, drill a hole, and go fishing for cache with a gaff. If so, I want to see that log.

24.7k · February 22, 2008

What should be done about underwater caches in colder climates?

If an owner doesn't want to give away the location (underwater) in the description, what should be done in times where the water is frozen?

Should it be marked as disabled?

Caches is there. It's merely seasonally harder. If you SHOULD not hunt it. Disable it. If you can log it if you can get it...leave it active.

2.5k · February 22, 2008

Thanks for the additional info....I agree with Renegade Knight when he says If you SHOULD not hunt it, Disable it.

I have one hide that may be a bit like what you are talking about. Certain times of year, the water from the nearby river is over the entire access area to the cache and you would need a boat to get to it. Most of the year you can park six feet from the cache. I just said on my cache page something about certain times of the year you may require special equipment to reach the cache and you should consider the cache a higher level at those times. I don't change the rating, and no one has gone after it yet when the water is up.

If there were some reason cachers could not/should not try a cache at certain times, I would disable it for the season. And that would probably be all that I would say "Disabled for season"--Cachers still wouldn't really know exactly why you had disabled it...It may be against the rules of that park to go to that location in that season, under water or under ice, too easily seen in winter, or too easily frozen into the ground etc. Yes, cachers will have more info on your cache, but perhaps not quite as much as you'd think.

4k · February 23, 2008

I just found out that the water goes from shallow to about 60" in steps. I could put it deeper if i chose but the coords will give away the water part.

I want it to be fun, but i still want people to find it.

It is a nice location. Not Hawaii or anything but a nice private pond. Permission has been acquired.

If it was 50" underwater, i wouldn't think you would need diving equipment. But you would obviously have to get wet in some way.

I wonder how many people would do it. No one wants to have a cache that no one visits.

Would you get wet to find a cache that is 50" underwater?

1.1k · February 23, 2008

I'm likely to put out some underwater caches this year.

you would need a boat in summer to get them.

BUT

I was thinking the other day that it wouldn't be a bad thing if during the winter, someone simply walked out to the cache on the ice, and bored a hole over it with an ice fishing auger.

would require a bit of fishing to pull up the container if the water was deep, but would still be doable... though difficult.

4k · February 23, 2008

I'm likely to put out some underwater caches this year.

you would need a boat in summer to get them.

BUT

I was thinking the other day that it wouldn't be a bad thing if during the winter, someone simply walked out to the cache on the ice, and bored a hole over it with an ice fishing auger.

would require a bit of fishing to pull up the container if the water was deep, but would still be doable... though difficult.

How many times have you found ground zero only to have it be 30' away from the cache? You could spend all day drilling holes.

Maybe it should be disabled in winter months. Is that allowed?

We have a cache around here that is on an island. It seems like quite a few wait until winter and walk to it. Someone noted in their logs that the ice was creaking and that a 4 wheeler recently fell through. They went for it anyway. Fortunately they didnt get hurt.

Again, common sense is not so common. I wouldn't want anyone to get hurt for a cache.

February 23, 2008

lots of good posts. I plan on going scuba diving under the ice on wednesday so I guess that if there happens to be a cache there, maybe I'll find it. I have also considered putting out an underwater cache. But how many people would go scuba diving to find it. I thought about putting a couple of underwater slates in the cache to for the log. There is lake a few mile away that has an a few wrecks in close proxcimity. The water depth is about 30' deep. Are there many cachers that are scuba divers?

4k · February 23, 2008

There seems to be a lot of cachers in my area. I imagine some of them will get wet for a smilie.

Too bad it isnt after a long hike into a pool at the bottom of a waterfall.

I am still not sure what to do about when the ice freezes over...

2.5k · February 24, 2008

Some people dive under ice, but a lot of people think it's just too risky.

Are you a diver? If not, do you know anyone who could give you some advice?

(Edited just to add a space that was missing. Yes, I know, that's pretty picky!)

Edited February 24, 2008 by Neos2

February 24, 2008

Add the cache attribute, "Not Winter Friendly". In our neck of te woods, the reviewer would rather you archive it as opposed to disableing.

4k · February 24, 2008

Add the cache attribute, "Not Winter Friendly". In our neck of te woods, the reviewer would rather you archive it as opposed to disableing.

That makes sense. I certainly don't want to have it archived quickly. I also don't really want people diving for it. I don't want any possible accidents. (I am not a diver, unless it is hot out and there is a diving board. )

The not winter friendly totally makes sense. I guess i hadnt thought of that. That could mean multiple things, and it doesnt give it away.

Thanks!

1.1k · February 24, 2008

How many times have you found ground zero only to have it be 30' away from the cache? You could spend all day drilling holes.

exactly.

2.5k · February 24, 2008

I just found out that the water goes from shallow to about 60" in steps. I could put it deeper if i chose but the coords will give away the water part.

I want it to be fun, but i still want people to find it.

It is a nice location. Not Hawaii or anything but a nice private pond. Permission has been acquired.

If it was 50" underwater, i wouldn't think you would need diving equipment. But you would obviously have to get wet in some way.

I wonder how many people would do it. No one wants to have a cache that no one visits.

Would you get wet to find a cache that is 50" underwater?

Bolding above is mine. Maybe I'm not following you right. In one post you say "No diving required, maybe some wading" and in this post you say something about 50' of water.

I am no diving expert, in fact I've the closet I've come to diving was snorkling. But I'm pretty sure that a depth of 50' is going to require folks to have some experience in free diving or scuba diving. Perhaps some divers could jump in here and clear that up?

It might just be that this pond cache will need to give some info away to keep people safe. If the person only has to wade to the cache, and won't be in more than 2 feet of water, that probably ought to be clear.

If folks need to bring dive equipment or be prepared to free dive, the cache ought to be a 5 terrain.

2.3k · February 24, 2008

I just found out that the water goes from shallow to about 60" in steps. I could put it deeper if i chose but the coords will give away the water part.

I want it to be fun, but i still want people to find it.

It is a nice location. Not Hawaii or anything but a nice private pond. Permission has been acquired.

If it was 50" underwater, i wouldn't think you would need diving equipment. But you would obviously have to get wet in some way.

I wonder how many people would do it. No one wants to have a cache that no one visits.

Would you get wet to find a cache that is 50" underwater?

Bolding above is mine. Maybe I'm not following you right. In one post you say "No diving required, maybe some wading" and in this post you say something about 50' of water.

I am no diving expert, in fact I've the closet I've come to diving was snorkling. But I'm pretty sure that a depth of 50' is going to require folks to have some experience in free diving or scuba diving. Perhaps some divers could jump in here and clear that up?

It might just be that this pond cache will need to give some info away to keep people safe. If the person only has to wade to the cache, and won't be in more than 2 feet of water, that probably ought to be clear.

If folks need to bring dive equipment or be prepared to free dive, the cache ought to be a 5 terrain.

Ummmm... that's 50 inches (4 feet 2 inches), not 50 feet.

--Larry

4k · February 24, 2008

:unsure:

' = Feet

" = Inches

I guess 50" would be a little more than wading. I planned on wading as i didnt know the water was that deep. Now that i know the pond is deeper, i may make the cache deeper. You would still be able to wade in, but you would probably have to go under unless you had some nimble feet.

2.5k · February 24, 2008

Ha ha I kept looking at that, too, and seeing feet, and wondering what kind of manaic you were to treat 50' so casually! :unsure:

3.8k · February 25, 2008

I'm likely to put out some underwater caches this year.

you would need a boat in summer to get them.

BUT

I was thinking the other day that it wouldn't be a bad thing if during the winter, someone simply walked out to the cache on the ice, and bored a hole over it with an ice fishing auger.

would require a bit of fishing to pull up the container if the water was deep, but would still be doable... though difficult.

KBayNPapaBear and I know about this first hand when we pulled Moving-1-2-3 40' off the bottom of Square Lake last summer. We had an underwater fish-cam and still struggled for over an hour just to find ground zero. I can't imagine throwing in two feet of ice as an obstacle. Ouch.. on the other hand, you won't have waves and swells to contend with.

3.1k · February 25, 2008

I've always wanted to do a tip-up cache, but there would be obvious permanence and muggle issues.

4k · February 26, 2008

I've always wanted to do a tip-up cache, but there would be obvious permanence and muggle issues.

I am not too bright. What is a tip-up cache?

3.1k · February 26, 2008

I've always wanted to do a tip-up cache, but there would be obvious permanence and muggle issues.

I am not too bright. What is a tip-up cache?

You know, for fish!

Maybe a temporary one at Tip Up Town

Edited February 26, 2008 by Dinoprophet

March 3, 2008

There's an underwater cache in lower Michigan that was sought after last winter by a group of cachers. They took a fishing camera to identify it. I'll see if I can find the cache page.

Edit - Here it is: GC10PNA. It was listed as an event.

Edited March 3, 2008 by Team LaLonde

March 4, 2008

Hello every one. I am a little late getting in on this topic. I think any cache that is under water, you should say that in the descriptions. Then a cacher can be prepared to get wet. I think in the descriptions or the clue it would be good to give the approx depth of the cache. After all we do want cacher's to find them, and have fun. I do some scuba diving and plan on making my first cache under water. If I new of a cache under water, and frozen over , I would definitely be in to looking for it.

March 4, 2008

Hehe, 50" for me is swimming. Being only 5' tall it creates an interesting cache.

Be sure to waterproof it well!

I don't know how thick the ice gets in your neck of the woods, but it gets pretty thick here, so be sure to place it deep enough that the ice does not damage it.

14k · March 4, 2008

I'd like more info, please.

Is it your cache? If not, what does the owner think?

Is it still do-able when iced under?

Does it require diving when it isn't frozen?

...and if so, Would I be allowed to cut the ice if I wanted to go after it in proper cold water dive gear?

You say the owner doesn't want to "give away" the fact that it's under water, but how could you hide the fact that it's under water once a person gets to the area anyway? I don't get that part at all.

It wouldn't be someone that has cold water dive gear that I would worry about. As an avid sea kayaker I have participated on a couple of online paddling forum for the past 10 years. Every Spring, just like clockwork, I read yet another story about someone that, on the first warm Spring day, took out a kayak or canoe, capsized and died of hypothermia. Typically the victim was inexperienced, wasn't wearing a PFD, and, what most likely contributed to their demise did not understand the importance of dressing for the water temperature rather than the air temperature. I've known experienced kayakers that have suffered the beginning stage of hypothermia after extended exposure in water that was in the 60's. I have been toying the idea of placing an underwater cache in the lake near my home and I would absolutely disable the cache from November until at least late April.

4k · March 4, 2008

Hello every one. I am a little late getting in on this topic. I think any cache that is under water, you should say that in the descriptions. Then a cacher can be prepared to get wet. I think in the descriptions or the clue it would be good to give the approx depth of the cache. After all we do want cacher's to find them, and have fun. I do some scuba diving and plan on making my first cache under water. If I new of a cache under water, and frozen over , I would definitely be in to looking for it.

I can see that... Food for thought. Would some clues do it? I think local cachers would know. I figured cachers did as we do which is load PQ's and jet. How many people actually read over the cache page before leaving home? Maybe for the FTF, but i cant imagine the majority doing this.

It wouldn't be someone that has cold water dive gear that I would worry about. As an avid sea kayaker I have participated on a couple of online paddling forum for the past 10 years. Every Spring, just like clockwork, I read yet another story about someone that, on the first warm Spring day, took out a kayak or canoe, capsized and died of hypothermia. Typically the victim was inexperienced, wasn't wearing a PFD, and, what most likely contributed to their demise did not understand the importance of dressing for the water temperature rather than the air temperature. I've known experienced kayakers that have suffered the beginning stage of hypothermia after extended exposure in water that was in the 60's. I have been toying the idea of placing an underwater cache in the lake near my home and I would absolutely disable the cache from November until at least late April.

The body of water is very, very small. Maybe 30' across. Would you still do this? (Disable for so long?)

4k · March 4, 2008

Hehe, 50" for me is swimming. Being only 5' tall it creates an interesting cache.

Be sure to waterproof it well!

I don't know how thick the ice gets in your neck of the woods, but it gets pretty thick here, so be sure to place it deep enough that the ice does not damage it.

Yeah, probably swimming. I am still debating about the depth. I want to go do research now but i don't really want to go out in that cold water. :laughing:

March 4, 2008

Hehe, 50" for me is swimming. Being only 5' tall it creates an interesting cache.

Be sure to waterproof it well!

I don't know how thick the ice gets in your neck of the woods, but it gets pretty thick here, so be sure to place it deep enough that the ice does not damage it.

Yeah, probably swimming. I am still debating about the depth. I want to go do research now but i don't really want to go out in that cold water.

Put on some insulated/neoprene waders?

March 4, 2008

Hehe, 50" for me is swimming. Being only 5' tall it creates an interesting cache.

Be sure to waterproof it well!

I don't know how thick the ice gets in your neck of the woods, but it gets pretty thick here, so be sure to place it deep enough that the ice does not damage it.

Yeah, probably swimming. I am still debating about the depth. I want to go do research now but i don't really want to go out in that cold water.

Put on some insulated/neoprene waders?

Take Me To The River - GC107F5: Beat ya to it! We placed this cache on January 2nd, 2007 when there was already ice in the river. I used waders to put the container at the bottom of a waterfall.

4k · March 5, 2008

Put on some insulated/neoprene waders?

What would be the fun in that?

Fortunately the water is about 100 yards from my house, so i can come home and get in hot shower to warm up.

I was hoping to stand out there to let the gps average for good coordinates, but i really don't want to stand in freezing cold water for 5 minutes.

March 5, 2008

Just add a line that it is not winter friendly. That's what I did on mine.

Edited March 5, 2008 by Kacky

Underwater cache in cold climates.

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