Would you find this type of hide appropriate?

4k · February 18, 2008

The kids had off school so we decided to try a few caches despite the cold weather. Went to a local cemetery for what i expected to be a quick micro. Well it wasn't, but it sure did disgust me. Is it just me?

First of all the name of the cache is "[A Real Name] is dead here".

I had hoped it was a fictitious person or the cache name was a play on words or something. Sure enough, there is a headstone with that name on it in the cemetery near the cache. How would you feel if it was your relative and you went to find this cache?

After viewing the logs and pictures and clue it is clear that the cache is up in a tree. To get it you need to climb up the tree. The tree is not in the corner of the cemetery, it is among the headstones. Its not just a few feet either.

I'm sure there is no way to get permission for this hide. I love cemetery caches but this is too much for me. How are you going to explain to a LEO why you are 20' up a tree in a cemetery?

As I and others have determined in my area, this cachers hides are crap. I have already been to a couple and after the last i told myself i wouldn't try one of theirs again. Well, this is months later and it was close and i figured how bad could a micro in a cemetery be? :lol: :unsure:

To me, this just seems wrong on too many levels. Lots of other cachers have found it so apparently i am the only one who is bothered by it. (Or maybe others just ignored it, i am not sure.)

What is your take on this? Am i wrong for feeling irritated, annoyed, and overall just really bothered?

Edited February 18, 2008 by knight2000

February 18, 2008

I'm with you--tasteless and likely to cause negative publicity for caching. If you have the stomach for the ensuing war, you could write an SBA.

1k · February 18, 2008

Yeah, tasteless IMHO. We have several caches near old historic cemeteries but they are outside the gates and hidden as to be found without disturbing any people paying respects inside. Any that require entrance are old hidden away abandoned historical cemeteries (with full public access) and then you only need to retrieve dates or numbers from headstones, nothing hidden there.

We like old ceneteries but we sure wouldn't be climbing trees in any of them... even for a cache.

2.2k · February 18, 2008

What is your take on this? Am i wrong for feeling irritated, annoyed, and overall just really bothered?

Can you provide the GC#?

February 18, 2008

First of all the name of the cache is "[A Real Name] is dead here."... there is a headstone with that name on it in the cemetery near the cache. ...

As I and others have determined in my area, this cachers hides are crap. I have already been to a couple and after the last i told myself i wouldn't try one of theirs again. ...

What is your take on this? Am i wrong for feeling irritated, annoyed, and overall just really bothered?

Sorry for the ... I'm saving space.

IMHO, cemetary caches in general are tasteless, but what you described is abhorrent. You should have stuck to your guns and IGGYd the cache. As one wise Tao of Cache told me once, "You don't have to find them all, grasshopper."

Edited February 18, 2008 by cowcreekgeeks

3.9k · February 18, 2008

I would find such a cache bizarre, irritating and unappealing, and I would not seek it. Of course, I almost never like cemetery cache placements anyway, and I never hunt caches placed in cemeteries; I feel that likely fewer than one in one hundred cemetery caches are appropriate.

Oh, since the inevitable is bound to happen within the next 27 posts in this thread, let me make clear right now and right here that I also do not like caches placed in cemetaries and cemataries, either! :unsure: :lol: :lol:

February 18, 2008

If the gravestone has historical significance, then I'm OK else I pass.

18.9k · February 18, 2008

That is over the top in my book too. I don't mind them around the edges or using the headstones as clues to a final in another area but up a tree in the middle of the grounds is just too much.

Ask the hider if they had appropriate permission to hide it.

February 18, 2008

Ok, here's my take. If this is an active cemetery, meaning that people are still being buried, or people are coming to visit their relatives, etc.. then no. This cache needs to go.

If it is at old cemetery, where the newest grave is 1915 or something, then I would not find this such a problem. You are not going to weird out someone who is there mourning the loss of a loved one.

1.2k · February 18, 2008

What is your take on this? Am i wrong for feeling irritated, annoyed, and overall just really bothered?

Can you provide the GC#?

Looks like GC13ATM...

...I just found it and have yet to read the cache page...

I will save comments until later...

2.2k · February 18, 2008

I read through all the logs.. The biggest concern seems to be killing oneself climbing the tree, but beyond that, most of the logs were positive. If you don't like em' don't hunt em'... Put it on your ignore list and carry on.

38.2k · February 18, 2008

I think cemetery caches are fine if tastefully done. On the surface this one doesn't sound very tasteful.

February 18, 2008

Sure enough, there is a headstone with that name on it in the cemetery near the cache. How would you feel if it was your relative and you went to find this cache?

How do you know it wasn't the cache owner's relative?

February 19, 2008

I've got a cache placed in a cemetery. It happens to be a historic sight. There are no recent burials. (Since early 1900's) I was very careful where the cache was placed and thought fellow geocachers would do the same when hunting. It's a very interesting location and very picturesque, however it is still a burial ground. Care must be taken to ensure the headstones are unharmed and the grounds remain in good condition.

When I placed the cache I left an attribute that no dogs were allowed and to stay on marked paths. I will say I am very disappointed to discover that several geocachers have visited with animals and judging by the tracks in the snow, did not take care as to where they walked. Today, while checking the cache the "remains" of a few large dogs were left behind. I've opted to archive this site.

I guess my take on this is that I personally don't have a problem with cemeteries being used. As long as you have permission, and place your cache in a way that would respect the deceased as well as those that may be visiting. However, this being said, we must also realize that not everyone has the same common sense when looking for a cache.

10.1k · February 19, 2008

Cemetery caches are on my ignore list. I find them tasteless, and without any redeeming values.

I found this one tacky too: "The above coordinates bring you to 9/11 memorial right by the parking area. While standing in the center of the curved bench, take 10 paces ESE. You are looking for a birthday."

But the worst are the ones that take you to cemeteries without warning you! "If you like historical caches, here's another one in a very old place. A friend new to geocaching told me about this location that I didn't know was back here. You won't need to mess with anything inappropriate to find this cache." It's a cemetery. The least you could do is warn me! Or: "The cache is back about 200 ft. from the parking area. But Stealth is a must as not to give the location away." Interesting area, but why hide it in the cemetery?!? Only have to walk on a few graves to get to it.

Tasteless. Ignore them all.

February 19, 2008

The kids had off school so we decided to try a few caches despite the cold weather. Went to a local cemetery for what i expected to be a quick micro. Well it wasn't, but it sure did disgust me. Is it just me?

First of all the name of the cache is "[A Real Name] is dead here".

I had hoped it was a fictitious person or the cache name was a play on words or something. Sure enough, there is a headstone with that name on it in the cemetery near the cache. How would you feel if it was your relative and you went to find this cache?

After viewing the logs and pictures and clue it is clear that the cache is up in a tree. To get it you need to climb up the tree. The tree is not in the corner of the cemetery, it is among the headstones. Its not just a few feet either.

I'm sure there is no way to get permission for this hide. I love cemetery caches but this is too much for me. How are you going to explain to a LEO why you are 20' up a tree in a cemetery?

As I and others have determined in my area, this cachers hides are crap. I have already been to a couple and after the last i told myself i wouldn't try one of theirs again. Well, this is months later and it was close and i figured how bad could a micro in a cemetery be?

To me, this just seems wrong on too many levels. Lots of other cachers have found it so apparently i am the only one who is bothered by it. (Or maybe others just ignored it, i am not sure.)

What is your take on this? Am i wrong for feeling irritated, annoyed, and overall just really bothered?

A micro in a tree or a small cache in the woods away from head stones is ok.

I know of who write about and youre right most of his caches aren't the best (bad coords or locations). Quite a few cachers have put his caches on their ignore list.

But climbing a tree in a cemetery is BAD!

4k · February 19, 2008

Sure enough, there is a headstone with that name on it in the cemetery near the cache. How would you feel if it was your relative and you went to find this cache?

How do you know it wasn't the cache owner's relative?

I don't. But i imagine if they were they might have posted that in the description.

I could email the owner but i can't imagine any good coming from it. I have emailed them before about another cache and received no reply. Then i posted an SBA. The reviewer did not archive for lack of grounds. Shortly after it was archived as someone else posted a comment backing my thoughts that it SBA.

I hadn't really thought about the fact that they were both by the same cacher... Hmmmm.

It never seems to turn out too well when i post an SBA. I take them seriously and have only posted 3. Two were archived and the third was not for whatever reason. (Cache that holds inches of water every time it rains and has soggy contents and a owner that has been a missing cacher for over a year.)

I have also caught local flak over posting SBA's. Some people say it is a game and we don't have to follow the guidelines so seriously.

The cemetery is older, but not that old. I think it is full, but the stones are new enough that it could easily have visitors.

February 19, 2008

There's one nearby here in a Cemetary. I was driving by it tonight, and commented to my wife about it being there, both are in agreement, that's not the place for a cache. I'd never hide one there.

1.4k · February 19, 2008

Well, they are dead and buried there... Dead is dead no matter how many years it's been. Could be the cache owners relative

4k · February 19, 2008

Oddly enough i like cemetery caches. I like that they are usually quiet and no one else is around. There is one (not placed by me) that is about 10' from my grandparents headstone. It did not bother me. I was glad to go to the cemetery for that one. I was surprised how close that it was!

Being in a quiet place like that is a nice time to reflect. I guess i don't reflect well while climbing trees.

February 19, 2008

This is not geocaching related but related to this particular topic. You've all heard of the "Ugly American." If you haven't, that is an American that is in a foreign country who acts like they should be given preferential treatment because they are "BY GUD AMERICAN!!!" Creeps in my book and I've met a BUNCH...maybe been one a time or two.

The Noncommissioned Officers of my unit took a weeklong tour of Normandy, France. It's called a battlefield tour and it's very informative and fun. For those of you who do not know, there are 9387 Americans buried in a cemetary overlooking Omaha Beach in Colleville Sur Mer. It's a beautiful, peaceful place that should humble any American but particularly veterans because we (vets) should know that we're likely to get a memorial just like the ones in this cemetary.

The vast majority of "Ugly American NCOs" were loud, obnoxious and rude. They offended the leader of the tour and almost everybody else within earshot. THEN we visited the German cemetary which holds 21,222 German veterans. Folks, these same jerks who could not contain themselves in our own cemetery went WILD. I was ashamed of my allegiance to those heathens. They had no call to disrespect the dead, regardless of their own views. There were civilians (probably bereaved family members) there with us.

You can kind of see the direction I'm going in regard to cemetary caches. My personal experiences while NOT caching was enough for me. I'll never place or visit a cache in such a place.

2.5k · February 19, 2008

Would you have a picnic at a cemetery?

these people do

and these people

and these nice folks, too

It was popular among the Victorians.

How about hiking, taking tours, or enjoying wildlife?

You can do that here

This one sounds like fun.

Ornithologists "flock" here (Sorry, I couldn't resist!) :unsure:

One near me is famous for walking tours

Of course, not all cemeteries allow such activities. In fact, this one recently had to uphold a ban preventing parents from placing toys and similar items on the graves of children.

Now as to whether I would find that hide appropriate or not, I'd have to actually go there and see for myself. Reading the logs, it seems that quite a few people thought it was just peachy. I may agree with them if I went there, as I tend not to view cemeteries as mournful, sorrow-filled, grim places suited best for tuneless dirges and weeping and wailing.

If I did not agree, I would have written the owner a private email explaining why I felt uncomfortable. It's been my experience that most cache owners want people to find their caches, and welcome productive input. Whether they choose to act on it or not is their perogative, of course.

Edited February 19, 2008 by Neos2

February 19, 2008

Would you have a picnic at a cemetery?

these people do

and these people

and these nice folks, too

It was popular among the Victorians.

How about hiking, taking tours, or enjoying wildlife?

You can do that here

This one sounds like fun.

Ornithologists "flock" here (Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

One near me is famous for walking tours

Of course, not all cemeteries allow such activities. In fact, this one recently had to uphold a ban preventing parents from placing toys and similar items on the graves of children.

Besides the whole climbing a tree thing, sounds like a fine location to me. I was just going to say, cemeteries were basically used as parks at one time. Many of the cemeteries on the east coast were designed as parks for people to enjoy.

I love cemetery caches, as it's really cool to check out all the neat old headstones. I'm personally planning a multi that uses information from headstones throughout the cemetery in order to find the final location.

6.4k · February 19, 2008

I, personally enjoy and don't mind cemetery hides, IF it's the dates they're using And if one isn't required to "walk" on the actual grave. I don't think one should be climbing a tree in the middle of one, though.

February 19, 2008

I was just thinking the other day about how some people get so bent out of shape about stepping on a grave.

When they mow the grass, they drive right over the grave with a tractor, when they dig a new grave, they often have to drive over several other graves with a backhoe to get to the grave they are going to dig.

Just seems very insignificant, human footsteps.

Apologies in advance for getting philosophical here but.... I was thinking. If I was dead, and buried in a cemetery... and my soul, or whatever you want to call it, was still hanging around and aware...

first of all, I wouldn't be hanging out in the cemetery, I'd be with my kids, or my wife, or with my kids...messing with my EX wife.... :unsure: Imagine the crap i could start...

Ok, for the sake of argument, let's say that I am stuck in the cemetery... I'd sure appreciate a cache being there, since people would come visit once in awhile. Talk about being bored!

Of course, if I'm just dead, and it's like turning out the lights, I'll never know or care... same thing if I'm in heaven or hell or wherever we all end up.

I'm all for respecting the final resting place of the dead. However, I like when a cache shows me an old cemetery. I have no desire to see an active cemetery.

Just my thoughts on the matter. YMMV.

5.7k · February 19, 2008

No, it is not appropriate.

14.3k · February 19, 2008

Thumbs down on this one... :unsure:

Edited February 19, 2008 by TrailGators

4k · February 19, 2008

I would feel comfortable having a picnic in a cemetery. Even a larger QUIET get together. I would not feel comfortable having a party with loud music and the like.

Hiking and all of those other things mentioned seem totally fine.

I don't buy that it has been found by others and they think it is just peachy. I know of a previous local cache that has a very apparent NO TRESPASSING sign all around it. People would mention it in their logs and then find the cache. And it wasn't just a few people. I get the feeling that it is "Live and let Live."

I will ignore it. It is a first for me. Walking away from a cache shaking my head. I still almost can't beleive it.

To each his own i guess. I suppose it it was inappropriate after this attention it would be archived. This assumed permission seems like it is going to far here.

Now, when will this cold weather go away?

10.2k · February 19, 2008

As far as being offensive, you had me at micro up a tree.

EDIT: Yeah, put me down for thumbs down, after I read the cache page. I did note however, that the CO is a teenager. That explains a lot.

Edited February 19, 2008 by TheWhiteUrkel

February 19, 2008

When i die, i hope somebody saves my femur and hides a bison tube inside and then tosses it in the woods.

I am planning on being cremated, and i would love to have my ashes spread in a dog park or some other place filled with life and happiness.

I personally have no problems caching in a cemetary, but i would stay quiet and as invisible as possible out of respect for the other living visitors. I can not imagine the dead really would get upset.

3.5k · February 19, 2008

When I placed the cache I left an attribute that no dogs were allowed and to stay on marked paths. I will say I am very disappointed to discover that several geocachers have visited with animals and judging by the tracks in the snow, did not take care as to where they walked. Today, while checking the cache the "remains" of a few large dogs were left behind. I've opted to archive this site.

Strange, you didn't mention anything about no dogs in the cache description and did not archive the cache - you disabled it because it was muggled.

Anyway, back on topic, I won't hide a cache in an active cemetery with recent burials but many people do. I will hunt their caches because I find the cemeteries interesting.

I get the idea that you're more irritated that the cache was up in a tree than the fact that it is in a cemetery.

February 19, 2008

It seems to me if the hider got permission for this cache, more power to him/her. I haven't found a cache I had to climb to get to, yet. But, if I came accross this one, and no one was around, I'd go after it.

3.5k · February 19, 2008

Now, when will this cold weather go away?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter

38.2k · February 19, 2008

Would you have a picnic at a cemetery?

these people do

and these people

and these nice folks, too

It was popular among the Victorians.

How about hiking, taking tours, or enjoying wildlife?

You can do that here

This one sounds like fun.

Ornithologists "flock" here (Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

One near me is famous for walking tours

Of course, not all cemeteries allow such activities. In fact, this one recently had to uphold a ban preventing parents from placing toys and similar items on the graves of children.

Thanks. This is a point that I have been making ever since the subject of cemetery caches was first brought up here. There is no reason geocachers shouldn't be among the respectful users of cemeteries.

As far as the cache in the OP, it appears to me to be over the top. What's in a name? A lot sometimes. The name of the cache is insensitive at best. What if a relative Googled their loved one's name and that cache came up? I can see some people having issues with this cache.

10.2k · February 19, 2008

Would you have a picnic at a cemetery?

these people do

and these people

and these nice folks, too

It was popular among the Victorians.

How about hiking, taking tours, or enjoying wildlife?

You can do that here

This one sounds like fun.

Ornithologists "flock" here (Sorry, I couldn't resist!)

One near me is famous for walking tours

Of course, not all cemeteries allow such activities. In fact, this one recently had to uphold a ban preventing parents from placing toys and similar items on the graves of children.

Thanks. This is a point that I have been making ever since the subject of cemetery caches was first brought up here. There is no reason geocachers shouldn't be among the respectful users of cemeteries.

As far as the cache in the OP, it appears to me to be over the top. What's in a name? A lot sometimes. The name of the cache is insensitive at best. What if a relative Googled their loved one's name and that cache came up? I can see some people having issues with this cache.

That's exactly what I was talking about, when I gave it a "thumbs down". I was just kidding about being offensive because it's a micro in a tree. "(REAL NAME) is dead here" is a horribly offensive cache name to me, assuming it's not a relative of this teenaged kid, which I seriously doubt it is. Go ahead and keyword search "is dead here", and it's the only cache in the entire world that will come up. For good reason too.

Edited February 19, 2008 by TheWhiteUrkel

February 19, 2008

What is your take on this? Am i wrong for feeling irritated, annoyed, and overall just really bothered?

I have to say that I agree with you, and some of the other folks in this thread. I personally enjoy visiting old cemeteries, and finding caches there, if they're placed respectfully. Having to climb a tree in a cemetery is not proper in my opinion. Especially after looking at some of the pics on the cache page which show how close it is to some headstones. Not to mention the cache name being disrespectful to relatives. I've already placed this one on my ignore list since I occasionally cache up that way.

Edited February 19, 2008 by Mr. 0

6.1k · February 19, 2008

The kids had off school so we decided to try a few caches despite the cold weather. Went to a local cemetery for what i expected to be a quick micro. Well it wasn't, but it sure did disgust me. Is it just me?

First of all the name of the cache is "[A Real Name] is dead here".

I had hoped it was a fictitious person or the cache name was a play on words or something. Sure enough, there is a headstone with that name on it in the cemetery near the cache. How would you feel if it was your relative and you went to find this cache?

After viewing the logs and pictures and clue it is clear that the cache is up in a tree. To get it you need to climb up the tree. The tree is not in the corner of the cemetery, it is among the headstones. Its not just a few feet either...................

It sounds like a cache hidden by a 15 year old, and probably the dead person's grandson. In that specific instance, I would say there was nothing wrong with it.

Edited February 19, 2008 by 4wheelin_fool

10.2k · February 19, 2008

What is your take on this? Am i wrong for feeling irritated, annoyed, and overall just really bothered?

I have to say that I agree with you, and some of the other folks in this thread. I personally enjoy visiting old cemeteries, and finding caches there, if they're placed respectfully. Having to climb a tree in a cemetery is not proper in my opinion. Especially after looking at some of the pics on the cache page which show how close it is to some headstones.

I didn't notice that; this is true, there is a "spoiler pic" that shows the tree in question, and how close it is to headstones. This thing, in my opinion, just has horrible teen hide written all over it. I could tell you all day about some "horrible teen hides" I've seen. But of course I won't, because every cache placed is a gift to us all, and someone took the time to place it.

Edited February 19, 2008 by TheWhiteUrkel

3.1k · February 19, 2008

I too like cemetery caches but think this one sounds tasteless.

Oh, since the inevitable is bound to happen within the next 27 posts in this thread, let me make clear right now and right here that I also do not like caches placed in cemetaries and cemataries, either!

What about cementeteries? That's what I called them as a toddler. They're full of those cement things, so they're "cementeteries", yeah?

1.3k · February 19, 2008

Sometimes a Cemetary cache can be good.. If it's well done and respectful. Around here there are several Revolutionary War - era cemetaries, several of which have tastefully done caches. I've felt a sense of awe and wonder walking through some of these historical spots.

Looking at the page for this cache makes me want to throw up. This looks neither tasteful nor respectful, maybe if the CO was closely related to the guy referenced? Somehow I don't think so. I'd post the SBA. The photo on the cache page, wtf?!

4k · February 19, 2008

I get the idea that you're more irritated that the cache was up in a tree than the fact that it is in a cemetery.

Climbing a tree is fine. That would have been really fun to do. An interesting hide. But the combination of them altogether is too much.

There are graves there that from the 70's. Could be more recent, i am not sure. I'm not going to climb a tree in a cemetery.

February 19, 2008

My opinion is that any cache actually IN a cemetery is in bad form. Caches NEAR a cemetery, especially one of historic interest, are just fine. Needing to get dates or other information from headstones is fine as well, but really serves no purpose unless it is of historical interest.

February 19, 2008

I've only done caches in two cemeteries... The first one was a virtual cache and it was about a historical person buried at the cemetery, so IMO there's no harm done. The second one was a micro, but it was hidden in the back of the cemetery out of sight. Also, we didn't have to climb up the tree, and the cemetery was a very old one that wasn't maintained anymore (but it was open to the public). That was fine too.

I do draw the line at caches in active cemeteries that aren't virtual caches.

February 19, 2008

I have found a few... in what would be considered "pioneer" cemeteries. I don't have a problem with them if they're done respectfully. That being the key... respect. I feel they should stick to the perimeter of the cemetery out of respect for those at rest. Usually after finding the cache I will roam through the cemetery and read the stones and their sentiments. They can be peaceful and beautiful places, and that's exactly how they should be treated.

DCC

2.2k · February 19, 2008

I have done a number of cemetery caches and enjoyed most of them. The "climbing a tree" factor in this one makes me think if it was in my local area I would put it on my Ignore list. Climbing a tree in a local park is different than in a cemetery in my books.

February 19, 2008

I feel that if they are in/around historical cemeteries and have some sort of relevance to that location, and are in good taste, then all is well, tree climbing no matter the location gets left off my find list most of the time. Aside from the potential difficult LEO issues, I'm just way to accident prone to be doing that sort of thing.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I would feel like a dirt bag if i was searching for a cache and someones loved one came to pay their respects and it happened to be at the same place I was hunting.

24.7k · February 19, 2008

At first blush I'd say this cache is a bit much.

However everthing about it can be tempered with other factors. None of which I know.

21.9k · February 20, 2008

I was the reviewer who published this cache. At the time, I was told by the owner that the cache is, and I am quoting, "away from any graves, up in a tree." No mention of climbing.

This was the first of a planned series of "______ is dead here." The second entry never got published. :anicute:

2.2k · February 20, 2008

This is from the cache page:

Shouldn't be any surprises if you try to find it. Physical-HIGH, Family friendly-NO, hazardous-YES

4k · February 20, 2008

I was the reviewer who published this cache. At the time, I was told by the owner that the cache is, and I am quoting, "away from any graves, up in a tree." No mention of climbing.

This was the first of a planned series of "______ is dead here." The second entry never got published.

It is away. A-way up in the tree. :anicute:

I guess technically the tree in near the graves and not the cache (as the cache is up in the tree).

On a different note... how do you put all of a users hides on ignore. I am a bit rusty after taking a few months off. (Still trying to figure out what this Wherigo thing is. )

This is from the cache page:

Shouldn't be any surprises if you try to find it. Physical-HIGH, Family friendly-NO, hazardous-YES

Again, i didn't mind the up the tree part. Maybe the chart should have said:

Physical-HIGH

Family friendly-NO

hazardous-YES

Tasteless-YES

Edited February 20, 2008 by knight2000

Would you find this type of hide appropriate?

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