Garmin GPSMAP 60CSx vs. Delorme PN-20

[+dontstonethepig]

Please no flaming for not searching as I have read quite a many fourms in regards to both units. However I do not recall running into a thread that puts these to recievers againist one another.

 

I am in the market for a GPSr and will primarily be using it for Geocaching and possibly other outdoor adventures; camping, hiking, etc.

 

I am new to the sport and the use of GPSr's in general. I bought very cheap Magellan Explorist 100 and found that this particular model is not useful in locating anything. The accuracy sucked really bad too. My front porch (waypoint) often was in the back yard approx 30 yards away or across the road approx 30 yards from the porch (East to West), while the N to S seemed to be OK.

 

I have no need to use a GPSr for traveling as I have access to a new TomTom XL-S that rarely gets used. I will primarily be using this to locate caches and landmarks in area. I do like all the bells and whistles and $$ is not currently limiting my decision. Hghly detailed maps are cool too.

 

I have read where the Delorme has many options with making and obtaining any map but at what cost? ($$ and time. As for the Garmin, it seems that a topo map purchase is necessary for any great detail?

 

The Coloroado seems to be a great contender to my bells and whistles wish list, but with it being so new and after reading all the problems it don't look promising at the moment. I plan to purchase one within the next month so that I can famaliarize my self with the GPSr so that once better weather rolls around I will be ready.

 

Any guidance for this noob is greatly appreciated.

[+benjamin921]

If you want a GPSr for just Geocaching and general outdoor use with great maps, then the DeLorme is the way to go. Hands down the best mapping and mapping alternatives. The PN-20 is very stable and with the 1.4 firmware update it just got better. A couple of screen shots from mine.

 

 

 

The biggest difference between the two is that the 60CSX has the barometer, electronic compass and the ability to place tracks on the SD card. Most people will take a regular compass with them if they need one. With the PN-20, you can store up to 10 tracks with 10,000 points each with in the internal memory (we are still hoping for an update to change this).

 

Oh yeah, there is a rebate (link) going on as well plus the 30 trial makes this a sweat deal.

Edited February 17, 2008 by benjamin921

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I have never failed to find a cache due to an inadequacy of my DeLorme PN-20. The lack of a magnetic compass has never put me at a disadvantage. As benjamin suggests, one can always carry a separate compass, and I do. However, it seems as though I never need to use it.

 

Another thing that I always carry separately is a barometer. On the second day out in the back country, I find it usually useless as the change in the ambient pressure over that number of hours renders it so. The change in ambient, in terms of feet, is greater than the variance in the elevation that my PN-20 reports. When travelling in mountainous country, I check the elevation as reported by my PN-20 whenever I see one of the highway department's elevation signs and the PN-20 is always within 20 feet. OK, so if you don't like the elevation that your PN-20 displays, look at the contour line nearest the cursor on your PN-20 screen and then reset your barometer accordingly.

[jimfish]

Pn-20 vs Garmin 60CSx? These two are placed against each other on a regular basis. One day the Garmin wins the next day someone declares the Delorme the winner. What does that tell you? They both are top of the class and they both will provide you with better than average results. There are few differences and I would suggest it simply comes down to your personal preference.

The Delorme has better maps.

The Garmin has faster screen loading (Less detail duh?)

Delorme in most cases comes with software

Garmin software will cost you extra

Garmin has an electronic compass Delorme does not, If you hike a lot in tuff terrain knowing the correct direction from the start is nice. Sure a wet compass will do the samething but it's another item to carry.

You can typically get a Delorme cheaper than the 60.

The antenna on the 60 is amazing. Reviews say the Pn-20 is good also however it's going to be hard to beat the Garmin unit.

Delorme customer support is fantastic!

Garmin, not bad but not like Delorme..

 

So? Like I suggested you have chosen two great units. Maybe the best thing to do is get both in your hand and see which one best fits your style. Check out the screen resolution and button placement. Does the antenna style matter to you? Either way you will have a good handheld.

Edited February 18, 2008 by jimfish

[wigeocacher]

I had been looking at the Garmin 60CSx and was ready to buy one.

 

After reading this and starting to look at the Delorme PN-20, I am not sure which one to get.

 

I will be doing some hiking, backpacking, geocaching and using it in the car.

 

I found the Garmin for $305 at Walmart. Any ideas where to get a hot buy on the Delorme?

 

I really need some help.

 

Thanks

[+ricstone]

I had been looking at the Garmin 60CSx and was ready to buy one.

 

After reading this and starting to look at the Delorme PN-20, I am not sure which one to get.

 

I will be doing some hiking, backpacking, geocaching and using it in the car.

 

I found the Garmin for $305 at Walmart. Any ideas where to get a hot buy on the Delorme?

 

I really need some help.

 

Thanks

sure stright from DeLORME. http://www.delorme.com/retailmatch/default.aspx thats were i got mine. great bunch of folks. i dont think you will go wrong with the PN-20. you also get a 30 day trial. if you dont like it just send it back no questions asked! you cant beat that.

ric

Edited February 18, 2008 by ricstone

[+embra]

If anyone is planning to do more than a little autorouting on their GPS, I still try to steer them to the Garmin handhelds because I think they're easier to use for that purpose. But if you're covered for that by the TomTom, then I can endorse the Delorme wholeheartedly. Those of us who use it here are pretty big fans of it.

 

The 60 is a fine device; it's been out long enough to be well-polished and I think it's generally regarded as the gold standard at this point in time. But the PN-20 has been out about a year now, and Delorme has shaken the bugs out of it pretty well with a series of firmware upgrades. Many of us are excited about the future of the device because Delorme has shown such a willingness to collaborate with input we offer. It really has the feeling of a partnership, of sorts. Coming from the Explorist 500 that I last had, this is entirely a different company attitude to encounter.

 

Some people find the Delorme Topo7 software a little complicated to learn--not only does it have the complexity of power, but it has a non-standard interface that takes some getting used to. I find the effort worthwhile. The maps are much more editable than Garmin's...you can add trails or roads and make them routable, and export them to the GPS.

 

The question you asked about making/obtaining maps probably refers to XMap, a professional upgrade to Topo 7 that Delorme has been making available to PN-20 users for half-price ($99). That program will accept images that can then be transferred to the PN-20. It offers a lot of possibilities; I'm looking forward to scanning some hiking maps for import.

[wigeocacher]

sure stright from DeLORME. http://www.delorme.com/retailmatch/default.aspx thats were i got mine. great bunch of folks. i dont think you will go wrong with the PN-20. you also get a 30 day trial. if you dont like it just send it back no questions asked! you cant beat that.

ric

 

Thanks,

 

I just found the price match rebate for $300. I am buying on this week, if I can find a retailer in Appleton. I don't want to wait on having one shipped.

 

Thanks

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Roger that! It is good to have it in hand.

However, if you do not find one locally, DeLorme does ship quickly.

[Fluxuated]

I'm a Huge fan of Garmin, and don't for one Zillisecond regret getting a 60CSX, but I'll admit that Delorme sure looks nice. I'm sure you won't go wrong with either.

[jimfish]

Like Va3 said I have no regrets with my Garmin but the Delorme is looking pretty good. The folks at Delorme are amazing to deal with and given time Garmin had better pay attention theres a new kid on the block.. The PN-20 is new stuff but Delorme took a swing and made sure it was a home run. I would image if they keep communicating/listening to customers like they do, add a few choices regarding features maybe expand their line they will knock some of the brands out of play.

 

Garmin holds the Lion's share because they have been around for ever and offer something from the low end to the high end. However, the high end is High, especially after having to add software. Then here comes Delorme, they were pretty smart. They show up with a unit that does almost everything the Garmin does but throw in better software at a cheaper price. Hello! My name is PN-20 I'm here to kick your butt...

[+dontstonethepig]

Thanks to all for giving your thoughts.

 

Just curious, has anyone out there had both models in your hands (at different times of course) and able to comment?

 

One more question. As I am leaning towards the Delorme, what benefits are there to using the map edit features? Adding trails etc.,?

[+benjamin921]

Thanks to all for giving your thoughts.

 

Just curious, has anyone out there had both models in your hands (at different times of course) and able to comment?

 

One more question. As I am leaning towards the Delorme, what benefits are there to using the map edit features? Adding trails etc.,?

One advantage to being able to turn off trails that are provided in Topo7 are that some trails are right on and some are not. I have a 70 mile trail that I tracked and then exported to Topo7. Now my trail and Topo7's trail do not match up. By turning off DeLorme's trail I can look at the map and know that I am following the correct trail. For the most part my trail and DeLorem's trail were close but some were not. See this post to see what I mean.

[+Team CowboyPapa]

I do much the same out of curiosity and part of a hobby. Many 4WD trails and routes of travel move over time in the Mojave Desert. I'll look at various sources and "guess" a trail out and draw it in DeLorme Topo USA 7.o and then export it to my PN-20. On my next trip I'll record my travel as a track or "bread crumb" on my PN-20 along with any waypoint so interest. Back home I'll transfer them back to my PC and compare the old, the predicted/guessed and actual on both the Topo 7 and the USGS 3DTQ maps of the area.

[gps_dr]

Thanks to all for giving your thoughts.

 

Just curious, has anyone out there had both models in your hands (at different times of course) and able to comment?

 

One more question. As I am leaning towards the Delorme, what benefits are there to using the map edit features? Adding trails etc.,?

I use the PN-20 and a 76CSX (60CSX twin) together on my mountain bike when I map trails.

• They both have great sunlight viewable screens
  
• The Garmin allows display of up to 20 tracklogs at a time.
  
• The DeLorme allows viewing one track, but I can display all 85 of my tracks (over a thousand miles) on my DeLorme by making them part of my map with the supplied software.
  
• I can enter data a little quicker on the Garmin while on the trail, maybe part of it is several years of experience using a plain non-mapping 76.
  
• Having USGS maps & satellite photos on the unit is cool. Can't live without the TOPO 7 vector data at higher zooms though.
  

I've played with the new Magellan Tritons, currently a no-go for me.

Hope to go for a short mapping ride on Wednesday with the above duo and my new Garmin 400t in betwen them on the bars. Will try to take photos in various lighting conditions.

(It is mounted where the cycle computer was & have a slimmer headlight now.)

They use different GPS receiver chipsets internally, so I'm hoping the 400t won't interfere with either existing unit. The current pair seem to work fine separated by a short distance. I had to switch sides of the units from what is pictured above, because the cycle computer didn't seem to like the PN-20 on that side of the bar if I was using WAAS. The slight distance change to the other side cured that problem.

 

The 400t & PN-20 also allow me to take screen snapshots internally afield!

 

I've used DeLorme mapping products for many years.

It has helped me greatly in planning rides by creating tracks to follow as a guide

(using the various mapping sources to plot the trail)

[+Team CowboyPapa]

OK, gps dr, that is just about enough!

 

CowboyPapa

Who is green with envy!

[MtnHermit]

You are now among the leading candidates for "He who dies with the most eToys Wins"

 

All kidding aside, looking forward to your comparison of the 400t's screen, lot of discussion that its too dark.

BTW, what do you map?

[+dontstonethepig]

Just purchased a Delorme PN-20.

 

With the rebate going on its hard to pass up. Not to mention the $100 certificate for maps.

 

30 day satisfaction test drive. Sweet!!

[+Team CowboyPapa]

Just purchased a Delorme PN-20.

 

With the rebate going on its hard to pass up. Not to mention the $100 certificate for maps.

 

30 day satisfaction test drive. Sweet!!

Congratulations!

Plenty of help over at the forums.Delorme.com.

[+Browlie]

SO... as a first time buyer of a gps device... and having read this thread I'm wondering now if the Earthmate GPS PN-20 is the best way to go. I had just about settled on the 60csx, but considering the PN-20 has the maps included...

 

The downs I have read about it are that the software takes a long time to load and scroll and that the unit isn't very first-time user friendly. Having the maps included and being that I'm really new to this and don't have a lot of money to get started, the PN-20 scores big on that one for me...

 

Has anyone had problems with the PN-20 not getting reception? thanks for the suggestion of going over to the delorme forum... I'll check that out now!

 

I guess what I'm looking for is a unit that i can grow into that isn't impossible to understand out of the box... would the PN-20 fit that bill? I had no idea how difficult it would be to buy my first gps unit! *smile*

 

-marykate

[+Team CowboyPapa]

There is always a trade off between first time user friendliness and seasoned users having to click off on an endless stream of help/tip pop up boxes, with and without YES/NO buttons.

 

I've no reception problems that I can recall.

[+Browlie]

There is always a trade off between first time user friendliness and seasoned users having to click off on an endless stream of help/tip pop up boxes, with and without YES/NO buttons.

 

I've no reception problems that I can recall.

 

thanks I was reading some of your posts on the DeLorme website. I'm pretty sure the DeLorme is what I am going to buy... Especially with the discount right now...

 

[jmedlock]

I have the PN-20 for a 30 day trial (received it earlier this week) with the Topo USA software. I updated the PN-20 with the latest firmware updates (1.4 Beta 2) from the DeLorme website.

 

I don't find the PN-20 difficult to use at all. It seems pretty straight-forward to me. And I don't find that the map re-draw is an issue for hiking -- we're talking seconds with the latest firmware.

 

I really liked the pre-cut maps they included: I downloaded my entire state onto the 1GB SD card they provided. When I finally got around to playing with Topo USA, I found it just as easy to cut out and transfer my own maps to the PN-20.

 

I also have a Garmin 400t that I am trialling along with the PN-20. I've hiked with both units yesterday and today, and for the most part, the PN-20 gets just as good satellite reception than the 400t in forested terrain (although there were a few times that the 400t was superior and tracked when the PN-20 lost the satellites, but it was rare and short-lived). The 400t still has software problems, and I'm sure Garmin will be fixing them over time.

 

At this point, I am tending towards the 400t because of the bigger screen and I like the pre-installed topo map a little bit better than what I've downloaded to the PN-20. But the PN-20 is much cheaper than the 400t, plus you get Topo USA software. So I may still decide to keep the PN-20. It's a tough call, and I still have a while before I have to decide.

 

J

Edited February 24, 2008 by jmedlock

[+embra]

Has anyone had problems with the PN-20 not getting reception? thanks for the suggestion of going over to the delorme forum... I'll check that out now!

 

I guess what I'm looking for is a unit that i can grow into that isn't impossible to understand out of the box... would the PN-20 fit that bill? I had no idea how difficult it would be to buy my first gps unit! *smile*

The imagery (aerials, USGS quads, etc.) add a level of complexity compared to other GPS units, and Delorme has another detail map level (most devices use basemaps and detail maps, but Delorme adds an intermediate regional map level to the mix). But once you understand those things and how to work with them, it's pretty easy. It certainly depends upon one's gadgetry tolerance, and I'd worry a bit about someone getting this as a first GPS without any support. But Delorme's startup guide is a good one IMO, they have online tutorials and a detailed manual available, and--most importantly--a very friendly forum that's glad to help get someone up to speed. If you can't figure something out with a few minutes of investigation, ask a question there and someone will tell you or point you in the right direction.

 

I think more of the learning curve involves becoming familiar with the more obscure and powerful aspects of Topo 7 and the PN-20. But to get a few simple things going like loading a couple maps and some geocache waypoints and go out looking for them is reasonably easy.

 

Like CowboyPapa, I am happy with the reception (this is the 4th GPS I've owned).

Edited February 24, 2008 by embra

[PerryB2]

 

I also have a Garmin 400t that I am trialling along with the PN-20. I've hiked with both units yesterday and today, and for the most part, the PN-20 gets just as good satellite reception than the 400t in forested terrain (although there were a few times that the 400t was superior and tracked when the PN-20 lost the satellites, but it was rare and short-lived).

J

 

How are you carrying the PN-20? It will get it’s best reception if carried horizontal – face up.

[jmedlock]

How are you carrying the PN-20? It will get it’s best reception if carried horizontal – face up.

 

Ya, I understand that, and was carrying it horizontal (face-up) the rare times it lost satellite reception.

 

This does remind me of one thing: one advantage of the Colorado is that I am able to "put it away" while hiking and it still tracks satellites. Whereas, I've found that one should be very careful about ensuring that the PN-20 is horizontal and (generally) has a good view of the sky.

 

I still like the PN-20 quite a bit.

 

Regards

[gbworld]

I got a great deal on a 60CSx on Craigslist and I could not be happier. I am thrilled both with the geocaching abilities and the fact I can use it on trips as an "in car" unit (okay, it does not talk to me). I have not tried the Delorme, but have read about it.

 

Here are my feelings.

 

Delorme looks like it has better maps. Anything other than base and recreation cost extra on the Garmin. This might be a cost consideration for you. It was not for me.

 

The buttons are fairly similar, so either should be easy enough to work with. One thing that I find a bit disconcerting about the 60CSx is accidentally hitting menu when I want to hit enter. Fortunately, I can quit back to the previous screen when I pull this blunder. It is a minor annoyance and largely due to my being used to the eTrex (a unit I was using prior to getting the 60CSx).

 

Looking at the Delorme manual, it appears geocaches are just stored as waypoints. While there is nothing wrong with this, I like being able to click find and go directly to geocaches separate from other waypoints. While the unit itself treats them the same, having a separate listing is nice if you want to use the unit as a geocaching unit.

 

Another thing that is missing from the Delorme is the electronic compass. This is a must for me, when geocaching. I can walk around a cache getting multiple hits with direction. It is a bit hit or miss sometimes with heavy tree coverage (as my location bounces), but a great way to single in on a cache. I would personally hate to have to carry an extra compass with me. The 60CSx will switch to GPS compass when moving, so when you are on the go, either should be the same.

 

The find on the 60CSx is a bit more graphical, but that is a non issue for me. Pictures add little to functionality. The directions look a bit nicer on the Delorme (manual page 57), as the 60CSx are a bit large. Not a huge deal, as it flips to map turn view when you have to turn.

 

The 60CSx also has a "highway" view I do not see on the Delorme. It is marginally useful, IMO. It emulates an "in car" unit, but does not actually show the map (just the route).

 

My reason for the 60CSx was two-fold: highly recommended and I got a great deal. It has been a lot of fun in the week I have owned it and I have geocached with the children on a couple of caches (and two by myself ;->). If it were not for getting a sweetheart deal, I would have probable chosen some form of eTrex to stick to budget. I have been watching for deals for about a month and a half now, willing to pick up any of the middle >> high end units, if the price was right.

[+benjamin921]

 

Delorme looks like it has better maps. Anything other than base and recreation cost extra on the Garmin. This might be a cost consideration for you. It was not for me.

No doubt about it, nothing beats the DeLorme mapping.

 

Looking at the Delorme manual, it appears geocaches are just stored as waypoints. While there is nothing wrong with this, I like being able to click find and go directly to geocaches separate from other waypoints. While the unit itself treats them the same, having a separate listing is nice if you want to use the unit as a geocaching unit.

The PN-20 is able to separate the waypoints to what ever you want. You can even search by Near Map Center, Name, Name Contains and Name Begins With.

 

 

Another thing that is missing from the Delorme is the electronic compass. This is a must for me, when geocaching. I can walk around a cache getting multiple hits with direction. It is a bit hit or miss sometimes with heavy tree coverage (as my location bounces), but a great way to single in on a cache. I would personally hate to have to carry an extra compass with me. The 60CSx will switch to GPS compass when moving, so when you are on the go, either should be the same.

I used to be the same way until I started using the PN-20. The maps have been so good that I don't need the compass anymore.

 

My reason for the 60CSx was two-fold: highly recommended and I got a great deal. It has been a lot of fun in the week I have owned it and I have geocached with the children on a couple of caches (and two by myself ;->). If it were not for getting a sweetheart deal, I would have probable chosen some form of eTrex to stick to budget. I have been watching for deals for about a month and a half now, willing to pick up any of the middle >> high end units, if the price was right.

Both are great units, it just depends more on what your needs are.

[+Browlie]

I really appreciate everyone's help! I will have to find someone in my area that can give me tutorials on whichever Unit I buy. I'm heavily leaning to the Delorme... although I saw the magellan touch screen and about fell inlove... however i read about their terrible customer service and realized that i should stick with someone that has good customer service as I may be calling it frequently to get help!

 

The biggest draw of the 60csx to be honest is that so many people use it. It makes it easier to find someone who can help me learn the unit... I'm sure there is someone in my part of the world that can help me! Seattle is a pretty big area!

 

 

 

-marykate

[+SidAndBob]

The Delorme has better maps.

Just for the record, this isn't true in the UK as Topo UK has far more detail than Topo US.

[+embra]

The biggest draw of the 60csx to be honest is that so many people use it. It makes it easier to find someone who can help me learn the unit... I'm sure there is someone in my part of the world that can help me! Seattle is a pretty big area!

 

Well, the internet community will be there for you staring from your monitor...not too far away!

Edited February 25, 2008 by embra

[+embra]

The Delorme has better maps.

Just for the record, this isn't true in the UK as Topo UK has far more detail than Topo US.

Quite true...there are means to bring in scanned images to the PN-20, but for off-the-shelf software the PN-20 is definitely US-centric. Most people with international GPS needs will find the Garmin map offerings make their handhelds more usable in those venues.

[+Browlie]

The biggest draw of the 60csx to be honest is that so many people use it. It makes it easier to find someone who can help me learn the unit... I'm sure there is someone in my part of the world that can help me! Seattle is a pretty big area!

 

Well, the internet community will be there for you staring from your monitor...not too far away!

 

a fabulous point!

[wigeocacher]

Thanks for the help everyone.... I was set to but the Delorme, but I couldn't find one in Appleton, so I missed the rebate window. (I had missed the Fleet Farm post.)

 

Anyway, I went to the Cabelas in Richfield, where I could hold then both and play with them. I was set on the Delorme but after playing around with them, I found that the Garmin felt better in my hand and it seem easier to use, navagating through the screens.

 

Cabela's will price match, so I think i will be picking up the Garmin for $300.

 

Thanks again for everyones help.