GPSmap60CSX Accuracy and Reliability

[+tbg120]

Hey everyone. We are new to Geocaching but have used GPS'r for a while. I got the 60csx and started caching with that. It seems that I have to constantly recalibrate the compass, almost every use and more times then not the coords are 30' - 50' off. We usually end up in the general area and using the clues find the caches but I thought this unit would be more accurate. Am I asking too much? It just seems that more times then not I am searching the wrong area's and my compass is all goofy. I just expected more from Garmin and 300 of my hard earned $$.

Edited February 17, 2008 by tbg120

[egorny]

Do you have WAAS turned on?

Also on the compass page, I changed the fields to make it a little more helpful.

I changed them to bearing, heading and distance to destination and speed

 

We teach GPS to educators and the reason for speed is that it helps with direction and location. It is suggested that you should be moving about 2.5 mph.

Ed

[+BigSpike]

I have a different question regarding accuracy. I have noticed that when not moving, my pointer does not stand still. When zoomed all the way down to 5m, about every couple of seconds a new track point appears. If I stand still long enough, many, many track points appear but no additional distance is added to the odometer. When I upload the track to my PC and show it on the map, it looks like a bowl of spaggetti all around a cache site or where ever I was standing still.

 

Some place (this forum, maybe? Garmin's website? I forget.) I read that this is caused by the WAAS being on and the location constanly being updated. I think that's a bunch of hooey. But maybe not, because when I turn WAAS off, the wandering problem is reduced. Hmmmm...

 

Does anyone else have this problem? One of the first things I checked was to see if I have the latest firmware, I do.

[+Lt.Ranger.Bob]

Make sure the unit is set for off road instead of on road mode.

[outdoors4me]

Do you have WAAS turned on?

Also on the compass page, I changed the fields to make it a little more helpful.

I changed them to bearing, heading and distance to destination and speed

 

We teach GPS to educators and the reason for speed is that it helps with direction and location. It is suggested that you should be moving about 2.5 mph.

Ed

 

Turning on WAAS helped for me as well. I still don't follow the pointer right to the cache, but certainly less than 30', most times much less.

 

But I do have to calibrate my compass more than I want to.

 

Beck

[+Miragee]

If the coords are consisitently as much as 50' off, do you have the GPSr in "Battery Saver" mode?

 

Also, if you have used the "Follow Road" option to get close to the cache, you need to do another "Go To" using "Off Road" for the last part of the search.

[roybassist]

I have noticed that when not moving, my pointer does not stand still. When zoomed all the way down to 5m, about every couple of seconds a new track point appears. If I stand still long enough, many, many track points appear but no additional distance is added to the odometer. When I upload the track to my PC and show it on the map, it looks like a bowl of spaggetti all around a cache site or where ever I was standing still.

 

Some place (this forum, maybe? Garmin's website? I forget.) I read that this is caused by the WAAS being on and the location constanly being updated. I think that's a bunch of hooey.

It does seem a bit unlikely, but then…

 

maybe not, because when I turn WAAS off, the wandering problem is reduced. Hmmmm...

…it’s hard to argue with results. Unless you did your comparisons at different times. In that case, you might have had more favorable satellite geometry when you checked it with WAAS turned off, and that might account for less “wandering.”

 

Does anyone else have this problem?

My impression from what I’ve read is that almost everyone sees this, and it’s normal behavior for these units. IIRC, it was one of the first things people commented on when the SiRF units came out. I’ve read many, many posts about it. My belief, backed up by nothing but my own speculation, is that this is a trade off for the greater sensitivity of these units compared to their non-SiRF predecessors. My speculation is that since they pick up signals which the older units wouldn’t even have received, they may use some signals that include more multi-path or atmospheric distortion, in calculating the position. That could lead to the position “wandering” a bit.

 

Regarding the additional distance not being added to the odometer, I like this theory

regarding why there are differences between the distances shown by the track log and the odometer:

Here is what I think is happening. The odometer has nothing to do with your position being tracked across a “map”. I believe it (the algorithm) uses speed and the time traveled to determine a distance traveled (i.e. D=RXT). In the world of hiking, where you are typically traveling between 0-4mph, going up switchbacks, taking a break, looking at the scenery, etc, these speed errors (which at these slow rates are already full of errors) translates into an even worse odometer reading.

The above theory fits well with observed behavior, which is why I like it. So if your unit is showing zero or very low speeds while you are standing still, this would explain why no (or very little) distance is added to the odometer.

[PerryB2]

The track log records points based on how you set it up…automatic, time, distance. So it’s results will vary from the trip odometer. If reception is poor…woods, mountains, your body blocking signals, builds, etc there will be more wandering of the track log points, particularly if it’s set to time or automatic.

[twoclones]

The 60csx is a very accurate device but it's compass is next to useless. I make my living with the 60csx but carry a Brunton pocket transit to point out the direction I should start walking.

 

Note that the compass is very sensitive to airborne materials. One morning I drove into the mountains during a terrible dust storm. For that entire day, well after the winds died down, the 60csx was unable to determine which direction it was pointing. Locations appeared to be accurate but calibrating the compass was of little help.

 

Butch

2 x 60csx

[roybassist]

The 60csx is a very accurate device but it's compass is next to useless. I make my living with the 60csx but carry a Brunton pocket transit to point out the direction I should start walking.

 

Note that the compass is very sensitive to airborne materials. One morning I drove into the mountains during a terrible dust storm. For that entire day, well after the winds died down, the 60csx was unable to determine which direction it was pointing. Locations appeared to be accurate but calibrating the compass was of little help.

That surprises me. I don't use the compass a lot, but every time I have used it, it seemed to be at least within about 5 degrees of what I expected. This was true of my 76CS that I had for 4 years, and so far my recently purchased 76CSx seems to be ok, too. Since I don’t use it often, I usually calibrate it the first time that I use it on a given day. Then I just hold it level and hold it still for a few seconds to let it settle down. Always worked fine for me. Never tried it in a dust storm, though.

[+KC4SEW]

I have had difficulty with my 60csx as well. Sometimes, the compass points in the exact opposite direction... I start walking, and the distance will go UP instead of down. I have to "follow the feet," so to speak, to find where I need to go. Between two targets, in the same city park for example, I will be "dead-on" for one, and the second will be way off. I spend a lot of time turning in circles to calibrate.

 

The other issue I have is with marking. My hide coords are often way off. I have resorted to returning to the hide spot several times to see if my own coords will lead me back to the hide. When I mark (and use the average feature), my "view waypoint" screen will often tell me that I am now 42 feet from the spot (without me moving).

 

When the GPSr is having an "off" day, I can tell by my waypoint screen...

The list of caches will tell me the closest cache. (Press Enter.)

The "view waypoint" screen will tell me that I am 276 feet from the cache. (Press Enter for GO TO.)

The compass screen will suddenly show me (without me moving) that I am 28 feet from the cache.

 

Any suggestions for this? During a PAF, I lamented my concern over my unit's accuracy, and the cache owner said a friend had the same problem with his unit. He played with the feature that makes it read "Hold Level" on the compass screen and reduced his problems. The cache owner couldn't remember the details to make the change, however.

 

Thanks.

[+Prime Suspect]

Any suggestions for this? During a PAF, I lamented my concern over my unit's accuracy, and the cache owner said a friend had the same problem with his unit. He played with the feature that makes it read "Hold Level" on the compass screen and reduced his problems. The cache owner couldn't remember the details to make the change, however.

That fact that you, apparently, are not seeing the "hold level" message, makes me believe that you don't have the compass turned on. If you did have it turned on and calibrated, you should see that message anytime the unit is even a few degrees off-level.

[+Nakedbamboo]

I constantly have to recalibrate my compass as well on the 60Csx. It will generally work for a few caches and may even work all day, but I have to do it pretty regular. As I am walking to a cache my arrow will be pointing in another direction from my movement.

[+Prime Suspect]

I constantly have to recalibrate my compass as well on the 60Csx. It will generally work for a few caches and may even work all day, but I have to do it pretty regular. As I am walking to a cache my arrow will be pointing in another direction from my movement.

You do know that the electronic compass shuts off once you're moving at or above a set speed, right? Are you sure the compass is turned on when it appears to malfunction.

 

The reason I ask is because it seems that in 99% of these cases, the error is due to people not understanding how the compass works, and how to correctly use it.

[+ventura_kids]

I remember before selective availability was turned off.....

If we were within 120 feet of the cache, we were happy.

 

Nowadays we complain if we are 15 feet off.

 

I leave the compass off, and WAAS off. As I approach the cache site (walking at a constant speed), I read off the distance to go.....50 feet, 40 feet, 30 feet, 20 feet, 10 feet or so...

then I quit looking at the gpsr and start searching.

After about 2 minutes, if I cannot find the cache, I may try to walk it off again.

After 7 minutes we leave.... after all, it's a rule.

[+Nakedbamboo]

I have the one setting set to autopoint in the direction of travel from speeds above 30mph. But there is obviously some other compass or something that follows the direction the GPS is pointing below that speed. It will work sometimes, but if it is pointing in some random direction, it will work again after a calibration.

 

So are you saying that every time I go over 30 mph, I will have to recalibrate? Personally I would just rather have the compass working while I am walking around so I know which way to walk towards a cache. I already know which way I am driving down a street and don't need the arrow to tell me that.

[+Nakedbamboo]

 

After 7 minutes we leave.... after all, it's a rule.

 

A rule?

[+ventura_kids]

That sounds like your compass is just re-setting after the calibration.

Check your compass settings...there is one for speed, and one for timeout.

I bet you just need to adjust it to fit your preferences.

Most cachers set it to 3mph and around 2 minutes.

At that setting, AFTER you walk LESS than 3 mph for MORE than 2 minutes, the Compass will turn ON.

[+Nakedbamboo]

That sounds like your compass is just re-setting after the calibration.

Check your compass settings...there is one for speed, and one for timeout.

I bet you just need to adjust it to fit your preferences.

Most cachers set it to 3mph and around 2 minutes.

At that setting, AFTER you walk LESS than 3 mph for MORE than 2 minutes, the Compass will turn ON.

 

I have mine set for 30mph and 5 seconds. I figured that would put it into compass mode by the time I had got the car parked and was setting off. And like I say, a lot of the time it works correctly, but occasionally I will notice that it is just pointing way off to the side from the direction I am walking and if I turn in a circle, it just continues to point in that direction. (I am talking about the little black arrow on the map, not the compass needle on the compass screen, which isn't even on since I am not routing.)

[+JSWilson64]

I remember before selective availability was turned off.....

If we were within 120 feet of the cache, we were happy.

I thought The GPS Stash Hunt was started (5/3/2000) after SA was turned off (5/1/2000)... wikipedia link

Edited May 9, 2008 by JSWilson64

[+Klatch]

That sounds like your compass is just re-setting after the calibration.

Check your compass settings...there is one for speed, and one for timeout.

I bet you just need to adjust it to fit your preferences.

Most cachers set it to 3mph and around 2 minutes.

At that setting, AFTER you walk LESS than 3 mph for MORE than 2 minutes, the Compass will turn ON.

 

I have mine set for 30mph and 5 seconds. I figured that would put it into compass mode by the time I had got the car parked and was setting off. And like I say, a lot of the time it works correctly, but occasionally I will notice that it is just pointing way off to the side from the direction I am walking and if I turn in a circle, it just continues to point in that direction. (I am talking about the little black arrow on the map, not the compass needle on the compass screen, which isn't even on since I am not routing.)

I set mine up to come on if I am moving under 2 mph for 15 seconds. When you are walking at a decent clip with good satellite lock, the arrow direction (the direction to the cache) will be calculated from your movement and the information from the satellites. Saves batteries and you don't have to hold the unit flat.

[+ventura_kids]

I remember before selective availability was turned off.....

If we were within 120 feet of the cache, we were happy.

I thought The GPS Stash Hunt was started (5/3/2000) after SA was turned off (5/1/2000)... wikipedia link

 

... well...if it's in Wikipedia (and written by cachers from Seattle area), then it must be true....

 

....but that would be a whole 'nuther thread.

[+GPSOkie]

Hey everyone. We are new to Geocaching but have used GPS'r for a while. I got the 60csx and started caching with that. It seems that I have to constantly recalibrate the compass, almost every use and more times then not the coords are 30' - 50' off.

 

I would think that something is wrong. I am new to the 60CSx (have had it a week but have been using GPS since the 90's) and mine is very accurate, so far. I've done 3 caches with the 60CSx and in all instances, the unit brought me in to 10-15 feet. As the others have said, check WAAS and battery saver. Not sure on the compass. I've calibrated mine twice (new and one battery change) and with constant use, the compass has been quite impressive to me. I would say that mine is staying around +/- 3-5 degrees.

 

I don't know how many caches you have done but the other possibility is that the person who placed the cache didn't do a good job getting their coordinates.

[roybassist]

occasionally I will notice that it is just pointing way off to the side from the direction I am walking and if I turn in a circle, it just continues to point in that direction. (I am talking about the little black arrow on the map, not the compass needle on the compass screen, which isn't even on since I am not routing.)

When that happens, have you tried standing still and holding the unit as motionless as possible (as well as level)? The map page is slow to rotate when the compass is on. If you are constantly moving it, even by a few degrees as you would if you are walking, it may be just not catching up with the movement long enough to redraw the map. The compass page responds somewhat quicker, but still works best if you hold the unit still and let it have a chance to "settle". When I do that, I get good results.

[+DanOCan]

I set mine up to come on if I am moving under 2 mph for 15 seconds. When you are walking at a decent clip with good satellite lock, the arrow direction (the direction to the cache) will be calculated from your movement and the information from the satellites. Saves batteries and you don't have to hold the unit flat.

 

Yeah, that's about what I have mine set at too. Basically if I am at anything close to normal walking speed I want the compass to turn off and have the unit use my movement instead.

 

For the OP: I believe the manual suggest calibrating the compass each time you change the battery. The 60CSx is a very accurate unit, typically getting me within 5m of the cache on a consistent basis.