Found a benchmark with nothing on it

[+junglelogik]

I was walking my dogs and found a Army Core of Engineers benchmark with no sea level elv. The only thing it had on it was SKI D . Does anybody know what this meens? why would it be here with no cords.?

[+seventhings]

junglelogik -

Could you provide us a description of where this disk is located (with handheld coordinates, maybe)? Chances are it is one the gozillion or so benchmarks that are out there that are listed in neither the Geocaching.com nor National Geodetic Survey database. There are lots of ACE disks that never made it to the databases that we, here, use. But, with some additional info, we can confirm my speculation.

will

[+89SC]

I haven't seen too many disks with the elevation stamped on them. They have an identification mark on them and the rest of the info is found on data sheets. I also came across a Corps disk today while caching. It's not in the database either. The stamping is hard to read and it doesn't look like the date was stamped at all.

 

 

It's near Burnsville Dam in WV. The coords are:

N38* 50.732

W080* 37.315

[+Klemmer]

It happens more often than you would think. Here's TZ1987 that I found some time ago. It is in the NGS & Geocaching database, which even states that the disc is unstamped. At first, I thought it was just too corroded (it's very close to the pacific shoreline), but it's just blank.

 

I've seen many US Army Corps of Engineers discs, maybe 20 or so, and not one of them was in the NGS/GC database. I've inquired with them about a database several years ago, but was told it was all on paper, with no plans to go on-line with it.

 

[edited for speeling]

Edited February 17, 2008 by Klemmer & TeddyBearMama

[+junglelogik]

junglelogik -

Could you provide us a description of where this disk is located (with handheld coordinates, maybe)? Chances are it is one the gozillion or so benchmarks that are out there that are listed in neither the Geocaching.com nor National Geodetic Survey database. There are lots of ACE disks that never made it to the databases that we, here, use. But, with some additional info, we can confirm my speculation.

will

This disk is located at the top of the coastal cliff

 

the coords as fallows

 

N 48 04.431

w 122 55661

 

the mean sea elv is 201ft.

 

I live in a area that has alot of gunnery forts and battery stations built in between WW1 and WW2, maybe this was a speculated battery but they pulled the plug

[+seventhings]

junglelogik -

 

A radial search centered on your cooedinates yields nothing in the Geocaching database within 0.6 miles. But that is not surprising: for every station listed in Geocaching.com, there are several (if not several dozen) set by the Armey Corps of Engineers, the USGS, and/or various state, local and private agencies. In my experience, this is especially true around ports, docks, old gun batteries and new highway bridge construction sites. These locations certainly have need of accurate positions and elevations, but the people that need and use this info aren't necessarily motivated to go to the trouble of submitting the stations for inclusion in the NGS database (source of the Geocaching database). As "89SC" mentioned above, the disk you saw may not have positional or elevation info stamped on it, but somewhere (probably in the nearest Army COE office) there's a datasheet that describes the disk and its position or elevation.

 

Will

[+LulusB&C610]

I too have found 2 benchmarks not far from eachother that have no info on them. I know the area where thay are placed was built summer of 1999. It is a new marina on the North Shore of Lake Superior. The two benchmarks are placed into the concrete curb which runs along the access to the slips. The cords (as good as I could get them from the GPS out of the car but should be good for with in a few feet) for each of them are as follows:

 

Mark #1

N 47 16' 16.99"

W 91 16' 23.29"

 

Mark #2

N 47 16' 19.14"

W 91 16' 28.79"

 

Let me know what more info is needed and what to do next.

[+Black Dog Trackers]

LulusB&C610 -

 

If you like, you can waymark them here. You just need the coordinates you read from your GPSr and a closeup picture of the disk.

[andylphoto]

It happens more often than you would think.

 

Here's another unstamped disk I recovered a couple years ago. Interesting for another reason--the only disk I recall seeing that has a double triangle. RK0421

 

Edited March 13, 2008 by andylphoto

[tosborn]

The Magnetic Station near me (GG0638) also has no markings other than a punch mark in the center of the double triangles. Perhaps Mag Stations have no other markings.

[NGS Surveyor]

Regarding the USC&GS MAGNETIC STATION disk (RK0421), this is an interesting situation. The description contradicts itself, giving a stamping just above the "History" section and then further down saying that there is no stamping. Also, if this was indeed set in 1975, it is 5 years too late. NOAA was formed in 1970 and about 1972 new disks started to be used. I have seen USC&GS disks set as late as 1972, but this is 3 years later. If this is indeed a tidal bench mark (as the RK0421 description states) then I think the field party may simply have run out of the correct survey disk and decided to use up this old MAGNETIC STATION disk that they had in the bottom of some box. Also interesting is the fact that this might be a flat disk, examples of which I have been looking for. I know there were flat MAGNETIC STATION disks, but there were also convex MAG. STA. disks. I also attempted to look up this tidal bench mark in the NOAA CO-OPS (tides and water levels office) www site but I could not find Michigan bench marks on-line, see: http://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/station_r...ark+Data+Sheets

Person note - when I arrived at my first NOAA assignment in January 1976 on the NOAA Ship FAIRWEATHER, there was still a large stock of unused USC&GS survey disks in the hold of the ship. However, we used the new National Ocean Survey disks for both third-order horizontal control and for tidal bench marks.

 

Regarding the unstamped USC&GS TRIANGULATION STATION disk further up the thread, here are my guesses (1) the field party forgot to bring their stamping kit, or more likely (2) the disk was set near the end of the field season and the mark setters weren't sure which year to stamp so they waited (and never came back). This is also the reason that there are some disks set which were never surveyed - the survey crew went to a different location the following season and never got back to survey the disk set near the end of the previous season.

 

My thoughts,

GeorgeL

NGS

[+Klemmer]

Andylphoto:

I'm just a little suspicious the disk you found (which seems fairly rare!), might not be RK0421. How well did the area match the description? As the above poster says, there are some contradictions in the datasheet, but I think there seem more things pointing to it maybe not being the right disk.

 

Don't mean to rain on your parade....... Just my opinion.

[+89SC]

I've found two triangulation stations where the reference marks where stamped but the station mark wasn't. This one was interesting, the reference marks were originally stamped NUZUM but then changed to BALD. Nuzum was the land owner but the hill is known as Bald Knob.

 

JX1887, unstamped

 

 

Reference Mark 1, Stamped NUZUM, marked out and stamped BALD

 

[andylphoto]

Andylphoto:

I'm just a little suspicious the disk you found (which seems fairly rare!), might not be RK0421. How well did the area match the description? As the above poster says, there are some contradictions in the datasheet, but I think there seem more things pointing to it maybe not being the right disk.

 

Don't mean to rain on your parade....... Just my opinion.

 

Anything is possible, I suppose. That one was one of the first 5-10 stations I recovered. It's definitely in the correct area. You can see the "bent trunk pine tree" described in my photo:

 

 

Being that I was new at the time, I also took the word of the USPSQD report that the distance from the fence was in error--five feet rather than five meters. There are quite a few stations in the area of the Coast Guard station, but this is the only one this far north. I'll go through all the datasheets again for good measure and revisit the station this spring after the snow goes away and check it again.

 

Another amazing peculiarity (aside from the datasheet discrepancies) would be if this is NOT RK0421. If not, then this would be an unpublished station, within 50 feet or so of RK0421--also unstamped.

Edited March 14, 2008 by andylphoto

[+Klemmer]

Another amazing peculiarity (aside from the datasheet discrepancies) would be if this is NOT RK0421. If not, then this would be an unpublished station, within 50 feet or so of RK0421--also unstamped.

I agree, lots of strange things going on there. What what "bothers" me a bit is that the disk is a CGS Magnetic station disk, but the datasheet calls it a "Tidal Bench Mark is designated as VM 13370". And then there is a totally different marking called out in the datasheet line " STAMPING: LSC TRI 1975 AC"

 

On the other hand, the datasheet also says "The modeled gravity was interpolated from observed gravity values". Is that a normal comment for a Tidal Bench Mark? Didn't seem familiar to me.... So I browsed some dataheets in my area (SoCal, not near any military installations), and I was surprised to see the same words on 2 out of 10 or so "normal" scaled benchmarks. Maybe not coincidently, the two with that remark were set by the local metropolitan water agancy. Huh. So I guess that might be a fairly common entry... ?

 

It almost seems like there were two datasheets shuffled together. Bit of a mystery. Almost wish I was there..... but it in the 70's here today......